I want it to be just us

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

My advice: Stop the pressure. Don't try to convince him. Go silent for now. No more reaching out. See what happens, but don’t do anything. 

Absolutely. Without a doubt, take a big step back. See if he contacts you again. And use the time that you are apart to really think about what you want for your own life. 

[BaileyB]

34 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

He said he no longer wants to argue and if I can’t guarantee that, then he no longer wants to do this. He is being distant and cold.

I’m sorry OP, no part of this says “the future is ours.” At some point, you will have to accept the reality here. Take care.

[YourEyesOnly]

1 hour ago, BrinnM said:

My advice: Stop the pressure. Don't try to convince him. Go silent for now. No more reaching out. See what happens, but don’t do anything. 

Don’t do anything. I think this is the right move for me. I’ll take your advice. No reaching out and silence. I agree with Bailey that my heart and head are in a war right now. Silence is the best option. Thank you! 

[heartwhole2]

Do you think he is conflict avoidant? Did his marriage break down because issues were never discussed and worked through? I'm just wondering at his "don't argue or else" ultimatum. It's kind of hard to know without the context of what you were arguing about, but it sounds to me like you two could benefit from couples counseling if you decide to move forward. You don't want to start an out-in-the-open relationship if it has this "never argue" caveat. Whether something is an argument or a discussion is very subjective . . . two people can have different opinions and desires and still reach a compromise without it being an "argument," but for someone who shuts down at the first sign of conflict, you'll never learn to do this together.

Forgive me my generalizations, but this has been covered in respected books on infidelity: It is very common for men with young children who have affairs to be conflict avoidant. They can't have hard conversations, so all of their grievances balloon into the belief that they are neglected, etc. Then an OW comes along and they feel justified in having an affair based on how "terrible" their marriage is (completely lacking the awareness to see how their inability to address conflict in a healthy way has contributed). Of course, in the part-time and secretive world of the affair, you won't be feeling the same resentments. Transitioning an affair into an open relationship can be rocky if these issues are present.

My husband has these issues (and indeed, had an affair when our kids were young). I suspect his mom has BPD and his dad just shut down and let her rage without responding. Hence my husband never saw healthy conflict resolution modeled. I am the more stoic and rational one, and yet when I bring something up in what I think is the most gentle and non-blaming way, he would sometimes react like I yelled, "I hate you!" And then he would unload all of the grievances he'd been bottling up in one big dump so that we couldn't discuss whatever issue I was trying to resolve. It's taken a lot of therapy for him to develop the self-soothing and self-awareness not to do this.

[YourEyesOnly]

5 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

Do you think he is conflict avoidant? Did his marriage break down because issues were never discussed and worked through? I'm just wondering at his "don't argue or else" ultimatum. It's kind of hard to know without the context of what you were arguing about, but it sounds to me like you two could benefit from couples counseling if you decide to move forward. 

Prior to this affair, I was always the level headed one. I was more carefree and wasn’t conflict-avoidant, I just very rarely argued. I didn’t let the little things bother me. He is the same way. Once I got deep into this, I found myself nitpicking and very frustrated. Little things that normally I wouldn’t care about became a big deal. I express these frustrations and they turn into bickering. 
 

He’s frustrated and so am I. Frustration leads to arguing. We’ve reached the point that the slightest thing leads to a blow up. This last one was over me not feeling supported while trying to buy a vacation home. In this market it’s a frustrating process. I was looking to vent and was getting one word texts replies and it annoyed me, so I blew up. Yup. 100% my fault, but I think it was the final straw of the fighting. 
 

He wants no more arguing. I don’t blame him because I don’t want the constant arguing either, but it’s turned into a never ending cycle that I don’t know how to break. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, YourEyesOnly said:

This last one was over me not feeling supported while trying to buy a vacation home.

Perhaps your expectations are out of line - he is your affair partner, not your husband. From his perspective, he already has a wife who expects that he will listen to her feelings and offer his support. Married men in affairs are generally looking for an escape from the pressure of married life - not another woman with her own expectations/demands. 

1 hour ago, YourEyesOnly said:

I didn’t let the little things bother me. He is the same way. Once I got deep into this, I found myself nitpicking and very frustrated. Little things that normally I wouldn’t care about became a big deal. I express these frustrations and they turn into bickering. 

Again, a different perspective. You are not really arguing about “the little things.” You have been waiting for years for this man to leave his wife and establish a legitimate relationship with you - that’s your issue. It’s the issue that you are not really allowed to discuss because there is no real solution. As such, you argue about the “little things.”

If I may, you haven’t just let go of the “little things,” you have let go of a very big thing - the thing that defines your relationship or lack there of. The “little things” become the topic which you bicker about but the bigger issue is that your life goal are not compatible (because he is not available to be in a legitimate relationship with you which is what you say you want and why you have stayed in this relationship for so long). The issue here is that there is an imbalance of power in this relationship. The issue here is communication - there is an elephant in the room that you are not allowed to discuss. The issue here is conflict resolution - as was said above, his response to conflict is to escape (from his marriage, but involving himself in an affair) and shut down (but telling you he will leave rather than deal with the conflict). Neither of these things make him a very good choice for a relationship partner, BTW. 

The rules of a “normal” relationship don’t apply here because at the end of the day, you are trying to build a relationship with a married man. He’s not obligated to listen to your thoughts and feelings and offer support in the same way he would be if he was your husband. You can’t resolve your issues because there is no solution to the fact that he is married to another woman and has not filed for divorce during your 4+ year relationship.

As such, you are left with a choice -  you can either accept the terms of the relationship as he has determined or leave. He has made his expectations very clear. At some point, you need to stop hitting your head against the wall because it really hurts! 

Edited May 14, 2022 by BaileyB

[heartwhole2]

I think whether you can vent to him or not is a huge topic to discuss. That in itself shouldn't be a taboo thing to bring up. You can express to him how you've been really patient and at a minimum, you expect emotional support for the big things. If he can't offer that, he needs to be clear about that instead of dismissing your concerns as "arguing." Of course, that sting when he replies with a single word is tied up in your hopes and fears . . . it triggers your vulnerabilities.

I'm taking you at your word here that they're separating and he wants to move towards an open relationship with you. Most affairs don't turn into open relationships, and I'm sure it's scary because there are no guarantees of anything. But if he's telling you that it is, then you can expect him to meeting your needs as much as he can. Meanwhile, you can work on expressing your fears and vulnerabilities in a way that isn't "bickering."

[BaileyB]

28 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

I'm taking you at your word here that they're separating and he wants to move towards an open relationship with you. But if he's telling you that it is, then you can expect him to meeting your needs as much as he can.

If he is not doing that, if he is telling you that he will leave if “you” cause more conflict and he withdraws/gives you the silent treatment - you have to ask yourself what that means. Is that the behavior of a man who loves and cares for you? Is that the behavior of a man who is committed to divorcing and being in a legitimate relationship with you?

To me, those are not loving behaviors. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by BaileyB

[spiderowl]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:08 AM, YourEyesOnly said:

Prior to this affair, I was always the level headed one. I was more carefree and wasn’t conflict-avoidant, I just very rarely argued. I didn’t let the little things bother me. He is the same way. Once I got deep into this, I found myself nitpicking and very frustrated. Little things that normally I wouldn’t care about became a big deal. I express these frustrations and they turn into bickering. 
 

He’s frustrated and so am I. Frustration leads to arguing. We’ve reached the point that the slightest thing leads to a blow up. This last one was over me not feeling supported while trying to buy a vacation home. In this market it’s a frustrating process. I was looking to vent and was getting one word texts replies and it annoyed me, so I blew up. Yup. 100% my fault, but I think it was the final straw of the fighting. 
 

He wants no more arguing. I don’t blame him because I don’t want the constant arguing either, but it’s turned into a never ending cycle that I don’t know how to break. 

He could easily stop the arguing by carrying through and getting the divorce and moving out, by showing you he means what he says.  He isn't doing this; instead he is blaming you for the arguments.

[ ] 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
group berating

[HappyAgain2014]

On 4/22/2022 at 7:51 PM, YourEyesOnly said:

What if he is truly staying because of his child? He comes from a divorced family and his dad wasn’t in his life until he was almost 30. He keeps saying that his child will have a father and the relationship he never did. Is this a common line for MM or could this be the reason no one has jumped to file? 

It’s the most convenient excuse in the MM book. If you question that, you’ll be a horrible person who doesn’t care about his child. Kids tend to handle divorce worse the older they are. It will always be something….aging parents, new job, holidays, blah blah. 
 

If he wanted a life with you, he’d already be divorced. It’s really that simple. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by HappyAgain2014

[YourEyesOnly]

My own update: 

I relapsed and we worked things out. We got into another argument and I brought up the fact that I’m tired of getting bread crumbs, while his wife gets everything. He told me that his wife doesn’t get half of what he gives to me and she wished he did. When I brought up his wife again he said it was degrading, disrespectful and he was tired of me making comparisons to his wife. He said me bringing her up to him was disrespectful to him and then he said he wanted to break up, saying that was the final straw. 
 

We haven’t spoken in 2 days. Is it really over or will he come back when things cool down? I’m relieved it ended, but I’m also very hurt and sad. I’m such a lost cause. 

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

He said me bringing her up to him was disrespectful to him and then he said he wanted to break up, saying that was the final straw. 

What he meant was it's disrespectful to her and he doesn't want her dragged into your conversations.  Anyway, nothing new  here YEO, rinse again and repeat.

[basil67]

You've again overstepped your role as the OW and he's fed up.  If you want to continue in an affair, it's important to learn to uncomplainingly accept the crumbs your AP gives.  Of course, if you want more, then move on and find someone who is actually available. 

[BaileyB]

34 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

We got into another argument and I brought up the fact that I’m tired of getting bread crumbs, while his wife gets everything. He told me that his wife doesn’t get half of what he gives to me and she wished he did.

He is pitting you against each other.

34 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

When I brought up his wife again he said it was degrading, disrespectful and he was tired of me making comparisons to his wife. He said me bringing her up to him was disrespectful to him

And then, he gets angry and blame shifts - he is sleeping with two women and yet somehow it is you who is being disrespectful. And, how dare you bring that up!!

What a hypocrite. I say good riddance. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by BaileyB

[YourEyesOnly]

39 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

What a hypocrite. I say good riddance. 

I really, really want it to be over for good this time. I’m not sure my heart can take anymore. 

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

I really, really want it to be over for good this time. I’m not sure my heart can take anymore. 

The person who decides this - is you.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, YourEyesOnly said:

. Is it really over or will he come back when things cool down?  I’m also very hurt and sad. 

What exactly does he mean by this? They're married so now she has 100% of what he has and if they were divorced she would get 50%.

All he gives you is some spare time and trite lines. Or does he support you financially?

It's all up to you, not him, as to how happy you want to be.

[YourEyesOnly]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

What exactly does he mean by this? They're married so now she has 100% of what he has and if they were divorced she would get 50%.

All he gives you is some spare time and trite lines. Or does he support you financially?

It's all up to you, not him, as to how happy you want to be.

He doesn’t support me financially at all. I’m completely independent. The way he said it was I feel the need to compare myself to his wife and in theory his wife should be jealous of me because she wishes she got half the time and dedication he gives to me. Yet he is staying with her. It’s all just so confusing. 

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

The way he said it was I feel the need to compare myself to his wife and in theory his wife should be jealous of me because she wishes she got half the time and dedication he gives to me. Yet he is staying with her.

His words don’t match his actions - and when that happens, believe his actions. Words are easily said, and rather meaningless when he goes home to his wife and family every night. 

[Wiseman2]

10 minutes ago, YourEyesOnly said:

his wife should be jealous of me because she wishes she got half the time and dedication he gives to me.

He is dedicated to his family, it's that simple. At some level you know he's lying to you, just as whatever he tells his wife when he's with you. The bottom line is you have the power to free yourself from all this.

[JakeT]

You must start thinking. It’s been 4 years,  your life is going away. You are 4 years older.   How long can this go on.  Another 13 years until the kid is 20. And you are 50 something.  Then another excuse.  Can you call him when ever you want as when he’s with his wife. Or you can’t have to sneak around as wife doesn’t know. 
 

it’s your life. You only have one. 

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, JakeT said:

You must start thinking. It’s been 4 years,  your life is going away. You are 4 years older.   How long can this go on.  Another 13 years until the kid is 20. And you are 50 something.  Then another excuse.  Can you call him when ever you want as when he’s with his wife. Or you can’t have to sneak around as wife doesn’t know. 
 

it’s your life. You only have one. 

This is it.  OW don't see the years slipping away for them until one day so much time has passed that MM grows bored, is no longer attracted, and ends it for good, leaving the OW scrambling with regret and wondering where the years went.

Edited August 14, 2022 by stillafool

[Alvi]

19 hours ago, YourEyesOnly said:

My own update: 

I relapsed and we worked things out. We got into another argument and I brought up the fact that I’m tired of getting bread crumbs, while his wife gets everything. He told me that his wife doesn’t get half of what he gives to me and she wished he did. When I brought up his wife again he said it was degrading, disrespectful and he was tired of me making comparisons to his wife. He said me bringing her up to him was disrespectful to him and then he said he wanted to break up, saying that was the final straw. 
 

We haven’t spoken in 2 days. Is it really over or will he come back when things cool down? I’m relieved it ended, but I’m also very hurt and sad. I’m such a lost cause. 

And yet again, when push came to shove, he chose his real family over you. The thing is, even if he is not in love with his wife, he is not going to leave her anytime soon or ever. She is his wife, a woman who he put on a pedestal. Perhaps it is a cold, dark place without any love and affection where he keeps that pedestal but nonetheless she is on top.   And you are just his OW, the one that he keeps at the bottom. You are the replaceable one. A pedestal is a lot harder to replace or to get rid off but mistresses can come and go.

19 hours ago, YourEyesOnly said:

When I brought up his wife again he said it was degrading, disrespectful and he was tired of me making comparisons to his wife. He said me bringing her up to him was disrespectful to him

He is really something, isn't he? So, in his mind, cheating on his wife for 4.5 years totally about respect. He thinks that his wife is not going to feel degraded once she finds out that he's been cheating on her for years and years? Another thing is that he put that blame on you but none on himself.

He is just another stinky lying snake of a cheater. That's what he is.

20 hours ago, YourEyesOnly said:

He told me that his wife doesn’t get half of what he gives to me and she wished he did.

And why isn't he giving his wife half the attention that he is giving you? Have you ever wondered. 

20 hours ago, YourEyesOnly said:

he said he wanted to break up, saying that was the final straw. 

You are putting too much pressure on him. Once the affair was light and fun, he was all in. But now it is getting too much for him. It is no longer fun and he is looking for the nearest exit.  Each and every time you are going to cause an argument with him (or put any pressure on him) he is going to be more and more out. Till one day he is going to be done with you completely. Replacing you is not going to be hard.

[YourEyesOnly]

4 hours ago, Alvi said:

Replacing you is not going to be hard.

Seriously thank you for all these words. It’s the reality, slap in the face, mirror held up, tough love I need to hear. I don’t know how they manage to creep their way in and keep us hooked. At one point I was stronger and smarter than this. Sigh. 

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, YourEyesOnly said:

I don’t know how they manage to creep their way in and keep us hooked. At one point I was stronger and smarter than this. Sigh. 

He isn't creeping in.  You are holding the door wide open.