Brake up with OW turned semi-GF

[torn_heart]

38 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately whatever you say or even if she apologizes, sleeping with her solidifies that you're fine with her.

Whatever personality or mental health issues she has are not going to magically change. 

Yes, that's why I keep kicking myself...

[glows]

6 minutes ago, torn_heart said:

Yes, that's my plan, the good thing is that she paid her debt in full and I'm not planning on transferring the money back so she can continue paying on installments. 

Do you have any other financial ties to her? Recognize that this is a method of control and keeping tabs on someone. 

[torn_heart]

4 minutes ago, glows said:

Do you have any other financial ties to her? Recognize that this is a method of control and keeping tabs on someone. 

I have one. But not that she has to pay me. Is that if she stops paying her rent the owner would reach out to me so I pay for her. Don't know the translation, but that's the scenario. 

[glows]

1 minute ago, torn_heart said:

I have one. But not that she has to pay me. Is that if she stops paying her rent the owner would reach out to me so I pay for her. Don't know the translation, but that's the scenario. 

You're her co-sign for a lease. This isn't good. I'd consult a lawyer if I were you. No wonder you keep talking with her as if you feel obligated to see that she's ok. This is beyond unhealthy, TH. Find a way out of this. 

[mark clemson]

It sounds to me like she is so-to-speak "using" you for intimacy, emotional support, and companionship that she's (apparently) not getting in her main relationship.

If she's in the process of separating from her husband/BF this perhaps wouldn't be so bad (a form of monkeybranching to you) IF you were ok with it. A sort of fling/FWB situation.

Since you're not ok with it, it's on you to resist these overtures from her and/or communicate directly (but preferably non-confrontationally) about what the issues are that bother you are. Or, if there's really no getting around those issues and so no point in discussing them, simply give her a gentle/easy let-down "goodbye" and continue with NC.

It sounds a bit like the proverbial "she has you wrapped around her finger" situation. But not so completely as that expression suggests, since you are actively seeking ways to resolve/get out of the situation. She needs you too, as inviting you over, etc, shows, but not enough apparently for it to be a "full" relationship (and/or her various issues are showing you she won't commit, or wouldn't make a great partner for you).

Edited June 6, 2022 by mark clemson

[torn_heart]

44 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

It sounds to me like she is so-to-speak "using" you for intimacy, emotional support, and companionship that she's (apparently) not getting in her main relationship.

If she's in the process of separating from her husband/BF this perhaps wouldn't be so bad (a form of monkeybranching to you) IF you were ok with it. A sort of fling/FWB situation.

Since you're not ok with it, it's on you to resist these overtures from her and/or communicate directly (but preferably non-confrontationally) about what the issues are that bother you are. Or, if there's really no getting around those issues and so no point in discussing them, simply give her a gentle/easy let-down "goodbye" and continue with NC.

It sounds a bit like the proverbial "she has you wrapped around her finger" situation. But not so completely as that expression suggests, since you are actively seeking ways to resolve/get out of the situation. She needs you too, as inviting you over, etc, shows, but not enough apparently for it to be a "full" relationship (and/or her various issues are showing you she won't commit, or wouldn't make a great partner for you).

Here is the thing. The father of her kids lives in another country, he is married and has another couple of kids with his wife. His wife and kids date before his relationship with OW, and so, she was the OW of the father of her kids. 

If I had to think about it, I’m the main relationship here (now with 1 or 2 satellites), but in reality I’m the second one as she still has some kind of string with the father of her kids, normally they hate each other, they chat very little but whenever he comes visit things get messed up and this time I got caught in it (April) .

[mark clemson]

Hmm. Hmm.  You seem to have accepted (settled for?) "it's complicated". That's again fine so long as you're actually ok with it. However, it appears you're not.

If you want to be her "only" then that's what you want. If she can't or won't do that, then it's up to you to extricate yourself from the relationship.

People fall in love/have strong feelings for "the wrong person" all the time and under various circumstances/conditions. If you want out, you'll just have to double up your resolve. At least that's how it seems to me...

Edited June 6, 2022 by mark clemson

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, torn_heart said:

 if she stops paying her rent the owner would reach out to me so I pay for her. 

Why can't you sever all financial and other ties? Does her married lover pay child support? Why would her landlord contact you?

 

[torn_heart]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why can't you sever all financial and other ties? Does her married lover pay child support? Why would her landlord contact you?

 

I don't mind that tie, TBH. If that's what it takes I'll pay it and that's it, it's not that much money. 

Yes, the father of her kids pays child support, actually that's why he came to the country in April, to sign the judge papers for it.

The landlord it's because I was the only one helping her when she came into the city and I helped her to rent the place. 

[torn_heart]

I keep watching and reading stuff about narcissists and damn... it's kind spot on. Specially after April she has become more and more manipulative. On Tuesday night she was on a hospital watching births and she told me "if we have a baby would you be there with me to cut the cord?" and yesterday no contact... 

[glows]

39 minutes ago, torn_heart said:

I keep watching and reading stuff about narcissists and damn... it's kind spot on. Specially after April she has become more and more manipulative. On Tuesday night she was on a hospital watching births and she told me "if we have a baby would you be there with me to cut the cord?" and yesterday no contact... 

Try not to read into this. This is coming from a woman who has shown you repeatedly that her actions and words do not add up.

[torn_heart]

I know... It's been a long time... sadly, not much changed until recently.

As you can see from previous posts you can see we were in a toxic cycle, it kept going until now, almost every 3-4 weeks we would have a fight, then we would come back. Most of the coming backs were done by her, except the last one, where I went to see her and tried to fix things. The issues were always the same:

1) She would get mad because we aren't GF/BF, but I wouldn't say it, until we have some peace period. Last time, when I went looking for her and we had a heated discussion I told her "ok, then let's do it!" and she replied "no, not like that" and I told her "exactly! We need to have peace"

2) I would get mad because she acted like I didn't matter (and shockingly she wanted to be my GF) she has apologized for this, and tried to change the behavior (you'll see some weird examples at the end)

After the last fight we agreed to kinda go out some days and even have a trip with the kids, so we did. In those dates, she went from not talking (she had blocked me in the last fight) she would shift to say "And wait until we have the twin baby girls" which she said twice in different dates, and I felt she was going from 0 to 100 in a second.

During that time one thing happened that I forgot I hated: She still sees her sister's ex, and he even is her physiotherapist, one day she went to see him at night and afterwards, she invited him to dinner at her place, around 11pm.... 

Then we had a trip with the kids, she would run a race with people from her work and there we had some issues, but specially one really bothered me:

One day we were gonna have dinner with people from her workplace but we went to a waterpark all day with the kids, when we came back to the hotel the kids were deep asleep, she said "I don't know what to do" and I told her "Obviously you go and I'll take care of them" she saw I wasn't thrilled on doing so, especially because I was getting ready and she got mad "ugh I see how you are mad, and I hate it, it's a good thing we are having this trip together" she also made a comment "well remember I asked you to watch for them tomorrow during the race" then, when she was going to have dinner she sent a voice note apologizing. I told her "take it easy, I'm not thrilled but I'm happy to support you", then she came back and seduced me.

She had to be back early in the city to go to a dance event, and we start driving around 5am, it's like a 6.5 hour drive, during which one of her kids started vomiting, we pulled over and cleaned up, when we arrived to the city the other kid woke up and also threw up, and then the first kid did it again, she was on the back sit trying to clean, I pulled up and helped, we reach her sister's place to drop the kids, so she could go to the event, there I asked for an uber and parted ways, I told her that I loved her and she reciprocate. 

In the afternoon I texted her that I hope that everything was going well, no response. I stopped double texting with her. Then Monday... nothing, then Tuesday... nothing.

On Wednesday she texted me on how I was doing, I was dealing with one of my key employees quitting and I told her, I asked her, and she told me that everything was OK and then I asked about the kids and something else and no response...

Next day she texted me on the morning to see if I was at the office, which I was, and I asked "why?" and no response... 

So since, I didn't hear anything from her from Sunday to Wednesday in my mind I was saying "this is over" so, when she asked if I was at the office, I think she wanted to come to my place and breakup. The issue is that whenever either tries to breakup it wakes up the absolute worst anxiety on the other, so I told myself "this is over, don't look for closure" 

So, didn't hear from her until the following week where she texted me asking what happened with my employee, I ignored the text, next day she sent another saying "are you ok" then I told her I was in the farewell lunch, no reply. The following day my employee got cold feet and he stayed and sent her a screenshot of the chat showing her how he wanted to stay, she commented on that and that was it (this was Thursday)

This week, we had a big earthquake on Monday and just like instinct I texted her how were they, and she replied telling me she had a big headache, then she told me about her parents, and asked about my mom (weird, she was opening conversation) and I asked about her kids and she replied and that was it. Yesterday I sent a couple of videos of my mother's and my office on how the earthquake looked and she commented, I replied (dry) and that was it. 

I'm in a place where I miss her a lot, where I would like to know why she is kinda opening conversation after disappearing as she did and after a good trip, I think she is starting to see someone, but for some reason she is reaching and I don't know what to do. But on the other hand, I know it's toxic, that she isn't good for me, so I have to deal with these thoughts. I'll try no to reach, but last three time I've been the one and I kick myself for it, but she is opening conversation. She is still blocked on social media.

Sorry, I'm battling with the dissonance of those thoughts:

- She isn't good for me, I have to let go.

- I miss her, I love her, what do those text mean??

Either way, at some point I feel some weird comfort where she also doesn't have the whole story...

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by torn_heart

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, torn_heart said:

This week, we had a big earthquake on Monday and just like instinct I texted her how were they, and she replied telling me she had a big headache, then she told me about her parents, and asked about my mom (weird, she was opening conversation) and I asked about her kids and she replied and that was it.

Sorry about the earthquake . Hope  you and your kids are doing well. Yes it's toxic and driven by make-up/break-up highs and sex. Without all the drama would there even be this relationship? Because that seems to be what you crave about it.

There are some "normal" interactions but without surfing this wild tsunami would you even want it? Keep in mind, you can label her any way you wish but only you can reflect on this from your end. Maybe it's time to get a motorcycle or take up hang-gliding? Less wear and tear on your children and their mother and the women you date.

[torn_heart]

36 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry about the earthquake . Hope  you and your kids are doing well. Yes it's toxic and driven by make-up/break-up highs and sex. Without all the drama would there even be this relationship? Because that seems to be what you crave about it.

There are some "normal" interactions but without surfing this wild tsunami would you even want it? Keep in mind, you can label her any way you wish but only you can reflect on this from your end. Maybe it's time to get a motorcycle or take up hang-gliding? Less wear and tear on your children and their mother and the women you date.

The kids are hers, the ex lives in another country. Also something I found out during this time (maybe I already said it) is that when the ex has come he reaches her for sex and she concedes. 
 

the good times are great, but really, for a long time she acted like I didn’t matter, she changed that in the last month a little, but ugh, that thing with her sisters ex… and then disappearing when we got back (she could say the same thing about me, but I’m always for her and I did the last communication when we got back) 

Edited September 21, 2022 by torn_heart

[torn_heart]

And no, I don’t like drama, I’ve run from it and since I met her I knew this could happen and I told her at that moment (4 years ago) “we could never be in a relationship. I thought that time had passed and maybe we could. She thrives on the drama, she had a toxic relationship with her ex, and obviously she can’t get over him. 
 

Yes, when we had our affair in part was because I was bored beyond belief, but I don’t seek this level of drama, I run from it.

[Wiseman2]

34 minutes ago, torn_heart said:

Yes, when we had our affair in part was because I was bored beyond belief, but I don’t seek this level of drama, I run from it.

Exactly. You wanted some fun surfing, but this level of drama turned into a tsunami, it's no fun that way. People generally manufacture chaos to control. That's it. As far as  her and her exhusband, well that toxicity will seep into your situation with her.

[torn_heart]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Exactly. You wanted some fun surfing, but this level of drama turned into a tsunami, it's no fun that way. People generally manufacture chaos to control. That's it. As far as  her and her exhusband, well that toxicity will seep into your situation with her.

Yes, she is used to that, she even told me several times: "I love the rush".

The first time she left, last year, she told me "I'll leave, I'm a drama queen so you can be in peace" and in in one of our dates last month she told me "Yes, I'm dramatic, but this is too much"

[torn_heart]

An update.

During last week she kept reaching like friendly and I replied likewise, but without developing conversation, but on thursday I replied using her name instead of a cute name. On sunday, she reached me and told me she wanted to talk about what has happened. I went there and I asked her what happened when we got back and she told me that since I didn't ask her to be my GF during the trip she wasn't getting what she wanted and then she just wanted to stay friends. I told her that when we got back I wanted to talk but she disappeared. 

(I don't know if I told you, but during the trip we had an argument and afterwards we were at the beach and she kinda was looking for the sunset and things like that, I felt she was forcing/pushing me to tell her "do you want to be my GF" during the sunset when I was mad... So there's where her frustration came from.)

Well, I told her I expected that, but she disappeared, she told me that there wasn't anything to talk about, that right now she only wanted to stay friends, I told her "no, we are nothing", she mocked me for getting mad and leaving. I then called her and told her "ok, sorry I left, I accept it" then she started to rant about how she has been waiting for me, etc, same stuff as always. But then, I told her everything I didn't like that I found disrespectful. She kinda tried to explain one, another one she used an argument like "you know I have a life besides you?" which is stupid, since 90% of the time we are apart, so I guess I caught her in one and suddenly, during the argument one of her kids came to the fun and asked "are you speaking to "other guys name"?" ... that name, that same kid mentioned it twice some months before (I posted here) during that time I learned, he is a friend from her dance lessons, but because she told me on another context, because in one argument we had I asked her directly and she didn't reply (through text). So she told her kid "no, I'm speaking to (my name)" and I told her "but he is asking for the other guy" and she told me "Let me do this and I'll tell you about him" and I told her "he is a friend from your dance lessons, but don't worry, we are nothing"

During the argument I told her about the trip, I told her I felt mistreated, and I felt she kinda mocked me. At some point she told me she wanted this to be a beautiful conversation with a good ending, but I ruined it. But I didn't feel this like clousure, or a break up, it felt like the narcissist discard. 

Also, at some point she said "I won't be this loving a caring woman unless I'm in a serious relationship" but then after 7 magic words her whole personality is going to change?

Yesterday I was mad, very mad, today I'm sad. So I guess it will be like this for some time, but I know I don't want anything with this woman, she showed her true colors and I dodged a bullet, as Wiseman2 says. Because being in a relationship with her would have meant kids very quickly (of our own)

Also, just FYI. Yesterday when I was talking about this with my therapist she asked me how many returns I’ve had. Since April that this started it has been 5 breakups with 4 returns. 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by torn_heart

[torn_heart]

So, I'm hurting... a lot. But I don't want her, of the many feelings I have, anger has come and go, but during that time I kept thinking in some things I could tell her to hurt her emotionally:

Things like: 

"Now I admire the father of your kids, a damn genius, he was able to get out of the relationship with you, he got kids and even has sex with you whenever he comes as a welcome gift"

"Well, I always thought that you were the victim of the father of your kids, but now I see that we have at least something in common: neither wanted to formalize a relationship with you after knowing the real you"

"My guess is that you are in a new relationship, since I know that the last 3 relationships you can't handle being alone, but, is he also married or has a GF or at least you were able to break that pattern?"

I won't say any of that, but now I know it wasn't love, it was a codependant relationship, and I kick myself for breaking up with my GF, maybe I felt we were boring, but it was because my mind was somewhere else. She offered me all the emotional needs I have and viceversa, sadly the sex, because of me, went away. 

I know they are terrible things, they are just product of my anger. 

 

[Wiseman2]

12 minutes ago, torn_heart said:

he got kids and even has sex with you whenever he comes as a welcome gift

That's ok. We all have dialogues with ourselves about what we wish we could say. However keep in mind cheaters cheat, so you picked a loser from the get go. 

[torn_heart]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ok. We all have dialogues with ourselves about what we wish we could say. However keep in mind cheaters cheat, so you picked a loser from the get go. 

Well, I became a cheater (I wasn't before her) I won't do it again after this hell, but I know she has done it many times.

[mark clemson]

On 9/27/2022 at 10:10 AM, torn_heart said:

Since April that this started it has been 5 breakups with 4 returns.

I'm not saying that I know what this woman is or isn't, but "narcissistic hoovering" is apparently a thing...

[torn_heart]

32 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I'm not saying that I know what this woman is or isn't, but "narcissistic hoovering" is apparently a thing...

At least she has some signs (I’ve changed therapists but at least they agree on that). And I’ve been learning a lot of trauma bonds, which is what I have with her.
 

[torn_heart]

Well, almost two weeks of no contact. Hurts a lot. Have to remind me of the bad things because the good things are the ones I remember and I continue to blame myself for most of the bad ones. So I've been hurting a lot and thinking a lot. This week had two days I had to take off because I felt seek and I believe it's because of this. 

I won't contact her, but keep thinking if she has moved or if she misses me...

[glows]

You’ve mentioned many times you find her disrespectful and yet still meet with her or expose yourself to her. Perhaps you’re hoping for change. Struggle less. Accept what you see exactly as is. This is just as much about you accepting what this is and not seeking answers from someone you do not respect.