A with MM

[anika99]

54 minutes ago, DanaJ said:

I am sorry, in my language it's all the same word: love/infatuation, i didn't realise there was a difference in English.

Infatuation is not love. Infatuation is like a crush. Relationships usually start with feelings of infatuation. It's that stage that is based solely on ego, lust and fantasy. In this phase of the relationship the object of our desire seems perfect and flawless. Everything about them is sexy, adorable or excusable because they are our soulmate (Fantasy). Sexual desire is at a high and sex is a huge component of the relationship (lust). At this time the object of our desire is happy to flatter and adore us with words of affirmation telling us that we are beautiful and smart and special which feels so good (ego). Feelings of infatuation are both powerful and yet shallow at the same time. it feels like love but it is not love.

Love is different because it runs deeper and it's much less self focused. It isn't "I want, I need, I feel" Love grows when we truly share our lives with another person. This is why often affairs don't ever get past the romantic honeymoon phase, because the participants aren't actually experiencing life together, you just tell each other about your lives. He can tell you about his family get togethers but you will never be there with him. You can tell him about your family but he will never meet them, at least not as your partner. In normal dating once the infatuation fog clears and you begin to see the other person for who they really are the relationship either ends because the other person isn't who you fantasized them to be, or it grows into a real loving partnership. In affairs it often seems that the participants remained hopelessly trapped in the infatuation stage because they never know or see of experience enough of their affair partner for the relationship to grow. Infatuation is thrilling early on but if you become stuck there it becomes terribly painful because it isn't enough. 

 

 

[BaileyB]

^^^ Also a good part of the reason why the spouse can not possibly compete with the affair partner. And vice versa. 

At first, the affair partner is wonderful and the relationship is novel and exciting! This initially works to the advantage of the affair partner - this person draws a lot of the MM attention and interest because it feels so darn good… But, at the end of the day, what he shares with his spouse is a loving, committed relationship. They have a history together, they share a family together, the relationship is built not on “what feels good to me in the moment” but on a deep, shared connection. Other women are quick to dismiss this - “they don’t have sex anymore, they fell out of “love” a long time ago, he stays only for the children, or in this case - she is ill and he is her caregiver.” The truth is - as spouses they have experienced infatuation and it has grown into a deep and committed love for each other. They have seen each other at their best and worst. While it may not always “meet his needs,” as so many MM and their other women like to say, it’s not easy to walk away either…

A lot of what you write Dana demonstrates that what you fee for this man in infatuation. You are feeling the emotions of a new relationship - as Annika said, he is perfect and adorable, you just can’t stop thinking about him, and you have no ability to make a different decision because you just love him so very much! (When he contacts you, it’s on again because you can’t help yourself). This is not real love. It’s infatuation. You have created a fantasy relationship with a man who can not even find the time to have a phone conversation with you. It’s very one sided. How is that “love.”

Edited April 25, 2022 by BaileyB

[Allupinnit]

You can't quit him because you're addicted to the high you get from the intermittent reinforcement nature of affairs.  You get a "reward" then it's taken away til next time and you spend your days living for the next hit.  It's why you can't even focus on real-life things like chores.  It's dopamine, oxytocin, a drug - NOT love.

Real love is selfless, it endures, it's committed and honest, it is an action not a feeling.  Our culture has lied to us in that if you don't feel that all - consuming sexual passion and anxiety then it's not as "strong" as other romances and you're missing out.  Girl that fades, it always does, and then you're left with the mess of a person who thought it was a good idea to cheat on their spouse.

This is going to end very painfully for you regardless of what happens next because in the end you don't end up together.  His wife will find out and he'll throw you under the bus, saying you came on to him, it meant nothing, etc.  Or, you'll get sick of being his dirty little secret and end things, but take him back into your life because you couldn't block him and he'll reach out again (getting caught in the cycle).  Your colleagues may find out and there goes your reputation; now you're a homewrecker (our society is MUCH harsher on OW than the cheating man).  His W may get suspicious and he'll put you on ice til things calm down, and you'll be a nervous wreck.  

Affairs don't just happen to people, they are a result of not putting up appropriate boundaries around the marriage and giving in to selfish wants and desires.  You're collateral damage.  

[vla1120]

4 hours ago, DanaJ said:

I need advice on how to get over this MM, because I feel like I am ruining my own life, his life and his wife's life.

Me and the MM don't text or call either. Only to pick a date to meet up. I also don't have a therapist, but I am on a waiting list and it will take another 6 weeks at least.

The ONLY way to get over him is to cut all ties and communication and block him. You say he has to stay with his wife because she is ill, which seems to endear him to you. However, he could very well be lying about that just to give you a valid-sounding excuse why he'll never leave his wife. 

I'm sorry it will take another 6 weeks to get a therapist. Maybe you have friends and family who can help you transition to being alone? You are worth more than the bread crumbs he will throw your way when he feels like seeing you. The longer you stay connected with him, the worse the hurt will be when one of you finally breaks it off. You'll feel better about it if you take control and cut the contact yourself. 

[vla1120]

I just read that you do not really have friends and family to talk to, and you are living alone right now. I understand how difficult that can be, coupled with the end of your relationship with your boyfriend (even if you were living as sister and brother, at least there was someone there), and now talking about ending your A. It will be hard. But you could take this time to do some self-exploration. Start a hobby you've always wanted to do. Read a book you've been meaning to read. Immerse yourself in things that interest you and will take your mind off this MM. 

Just from personal experience, since June 2020, this is the first time in my life I have been alone. I was in two marriages for 38 years straight. I am just now learning how to be alone (and liking it.) I really think when you spend some time alone, you take that time to realize how it is you deserve to be treated and you become more aware of red flags. You won't settle for being treated any less than you deserve when you do meet someone down the road. You definitely deserve more than you're being given by this married man.

Edited April 25, 2022 by vla1120

[DanaJ]

16 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Do you just meet for sex? At a time that is agreeable for him?

No, not just for sex, but indeed only at times that suit him.

[DanaJ]

16 hours ago, glows said:

It'll be what you make of it so try your best to avoid any contact and when you return home have a loose plan in place for how you want to change your routines. If you start up in the morning doing something that causes you to miss him, don't do the same things. I've found the quickest way over someone is in working on myself, the toughest times were when I was alone at night because thoughts may be deafening in the silence. Challenge yourself to try new things, enroll in courses to upgrade your skills, fix things around the house. The greater the challenge or project the better I felt. Your life doesn't stop here with this relationship. Keep on trying new things that add to your life and boost you or motivate you to do more. 

Thank you, you are right. I just blocked his phone number etc., so he cannot contact me anymore.

[DanaJ]

16 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 

Right - the simple thing to do is to go NC - not communicate, block him, and if he tries to re-establish things, tell him directly to stop contacting you. Resolve to focus on moving on with your life, which starts with emotionally "recovering" and then, when ready, looking for a new and presumably better relationship.

"Simple" is not the same thing as easy, esp. when it comes to romantic relationships. However, the actual actions to take are indeed straightforward, particularly since he is not integrated into your life (e.g. roommates, shared expenses) the way a "full" LT BF might be.

WRT to the obsessive thoughts, you may have limerence - a bona fide altered state of consciousness with some similarities to addiction as well as to OCD. I suspect it is intensified by dysfunctional "can't have" situations, such as affairs among other things. You may wish to research this a bit at the link below.

Keep in mind that limerence does eventually fade, it just takes longer than we'd like (typically months to a couple of years) as it fading fully actually requires neural changes. FULL no-contact may help it to fade more quickly, particularly if you can somehow make it actually essentially impossible to see him again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

 

I did not know this term existed, I will read more about it. Yes, maybe the best and most simple thing to do is not the easiest indeed, but I know all you guys are right about this. I blocked his number and everything, will go for NC and hopefully I will be much more distracted from this all when I am abroad soon.

[DanaJ]

16 hours ago, anika99 said:

Infatuation is not love. Infatuation is like a crush. Relationships usually start with feelings of infatuation. It's that stage that is based solely on ego, lust and fantasy. In this phase of the relationship the object of our desire seems perfect and flawless. Everything about them is sexy, adorable or excusable because they are our soulmate (Fantasy). Sexual desire is at a high and sex is a huge component of the relationship (lust). At this time the object of our desire is happy to flatter and adore us with words of affirmation telling us that we are beautiful and smart and special which feels so good (ego). Feelings of infatuation are both powerful and yet shallow at the same time. it feels like love but it is not love.

Love is different because it runs deeper and it's much less self focused. It isn't "I want, I need, I feel" Love grows when we truly share our lives with another person. This is why often affairs don't ever get past the romantic honeymoon phase, because the participants aren't actually experiencing life together, you just tell each other about your lives. He can tell you about his family get togethers but you will never be there with him. You can tell him about your family but he will never meet them, at least not as your partner. In normal dating once the infatuation fog clears and you begin to see the other person for who they really are the relationship either ends because the other person isn't who you fantasized them to be, or it grows into a real loving partnership. In affairs it often seems that the participants remained hopelessly trapped in the infatuation stage because they never know or see of experience enough of their affair partner for the relationship to grow. Infatuation is thrilling early on but if you become stuck there it becomes terribly painful because it isn't enough. 

 

 

Thank you for explaining.

The last part sounds horrible, but like reality. I don't want to be in this. I feel so trapped, but I hope no contact will work and make it all fade away

[DanaJ]

15 hours ago, BaileyB said:

^^^ Also a good part of the reason why the spouse can not possibly compete with the affair partner. And vice versa. 

At first, the affair partner is wonderful and the relationship is novel and exciting! This initially works to the advantage of the affair partner - this person draws a lot of the MM attention and interest because it feels so darn good… But, at the end of the day, what he shares with his spouse is a loving, committed relationship. They have a history together, they share a family together, the relationship is built not on “what feels good to me in the moment” but on a deep, shared connection. Other women are quick to dismiss this - “they don’t have sex anymore, they fell out of “love” a long time ago, he stays only for the children, or in this case - she is ill and he is her caregiver.” The truth is - as spouses they have experienced infatuation and it has grown into a deep and committed love for each other. They have seen each other at their best and worst. While it may not always “meet his needs,” as so many MM and their other women like to say, it’s not easy to walk away either…

A lot of what you write Dana demonstrates that what you fee for this man in infatuation. You are feeling the emotions of a new relationship - as Annika said, he is perfect and adorable, you just can’t stop thinking about him, and you have no ability to make a different decision because you just love him so very much! (When he contacts you, it’s on again because you can’t help yourself). This is not real love. It’s infatuation. You have created a fantasy relationship with a man who can not even find the time to have a phone conversation with you. It’s very one sided. How is that “love.”

Thank you. I know he truly loves his wife, I mean, he literally said he would never leave her and loves her. I never doubted that. It hurts so much, but I know you all are right. I blocked him everywhere and will go for no contact. Even though it won't be easy and I feel heartbroken, I know it will be the best for everyone.

[DanaJ]

13 hours ago, Allupinnit said:

You can't quit him because you're addicted to the high you get from the intermittent reinforcement nature of affairs.  You get a "reward" then it's taken away til next time and you spend your days living for the next hit.  It's why you can't even focus on real-life things like chores.  It's dopamine, oxytocin, a drug - NOT love.

Real love is selfless, it endures, it's committed and honest, it is an action not a feeling.  Our culture has lied to us in that if you don't feel that all - consuming sexual passion and anxiety then it's not as "strong" as other romances and you're missing out.  Girl that fades, it always does, and then you're left with the mess of a person who thought it was a good idea to cheat on their spouse.

This is going to end very painfully for you regardless of what happens next because in the end you don't end up together.  His wife will find out and he'll throw you under the bus, saying you came on to him, it meant nothing, etc.  Or, you'll get sick of being his dirty little secret and end things, but take him back into your life because you couldn't block him and he'll reach out again (getting caught in the cycle).  Your colleagues may find out and there goes your reputation; now you're a homewrecker (our society is MUCH harsher on OW than the cheating man).  His W may get suspicious and he'll put you on ice til things calm down, and you'll be a nervous wreck.  

Affairs don't just happen to people, they are a result of not putting up appropriate boundaries around the marriage and giving in to selfish wants and desires.  You're collateral damage.  

Thank you. I know that you are right about this all. I blocked him everywhere. I feel so hurt, but it is for the best for everone.

[DanaJ]

12 hours ago, vla1120 said:

The ONLY way to get over him is to cut all ties and communication and block him. You say he has to stay with his wife because she is ill, which seems to endear him to you. However, he could very well be lying about that just to give you a valid-sounding excuse why he'll never leave his wife. 

I'm sorry it will take another 6 weeks to get a therapist. Maybe you have friends and family who can help you transition to being alone? You are worth more than the bread crumbs he will throw your way when he feels like seeing you. The longer you stay connected with him, the worse the hurt will be when one of you finally breaks it off. You'll feel better about it if you take control and cut the contact yourself. 

Thanks. Well, his wife is ill, but that is not the reason he wants/has to stay with her. He said he loves her and would never leave her because of that.

Those breadcrumbs made me really happy though, even though I know they shouldn't. I blocked him everywhere and will go for no contact.

[DanaJ]

12 hours ago, vla1120 said:

I just read that you do not really have friends and family to talk to, and you are living alone right now. I understand how difficult that can be, coupled with the end of your relationship with your boyfriend (even if you were living as sister and brother, at least there was someone there), and now talking about ending your A. It will be hard. But you could take this time to do some self-exploration. Start a hobby you've always wanted to do. Read a book you've been meaning to read. Immerse yourself in things that interest you and will take your mind off this MM. 

Just from personal experience, since June 2020, this is the first time in my life I have been alone. I was in two marriages for 38 years straight. I am just now learning how to be alone (and liking it.) I really think when you spend some time alone, you take that time to realize how it is you deserve to be treated and you become more aware of red flags. You won't settle for being treated any less than you deserve when you do meet someone down the road. You definitely deserve more than you're being given by this married man.

Thank you. I appreciate your comment, I think this advice and all the advice from the other comments are really helpful ideas for distraction.

[DanaJ]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

This was really what I needed to hear. As I mentioned, I don't really have a family anymore and I can't talk about this with my friends. The past 9 months were therefore quite hard, since I had to carry this secret all by myself. I read about other people's stories, but that never helped, since it seems familiar, but still different. While, now the advice is just directed to my own situation and that made me see things in a different perspective.

I read about infatuation and limerence and I think you all are right about that. The intense highs and lows are something I truly experience. The highs (breadcrumbs in this case) make you feel amazing of course, while the lows are nothing but extremely painful (always waiting and possibly expecting the worst). I don't reall understand why everything feels so extreme. I never had this before with my previous BFs, of course I also felt infatuation for them, but never like this. Maybe it's because this is all I can possibly get out of this A, it will never move to anything else and I know I can't have it, which makes my brain wants to have it more? I don't know. It also fears me that limerence will take years to recover from?!

I blocked him, so he cannot contact me anymore. I also consider throwing/giving away some of the gifts that he gave me, I think that will make it easier to forget him. Meanwhile, I am also thinking about new hobbies, but I am not sure what I like yet. Hopefully my business trip of 3 weeks will also calm my brain down a little. I feel so intensely hurt at the moment, but I know it will be for the best.

Edited April 26, 2022 by DanaJ

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, DanaJ said:

I feel so intensely hurt at the moment, but I know it will be for the best.

Good for you Dana! 

You will feel then pain inevitably, there is no avoiding it. Better to feel it now and get over it than drag it out over months and years… making it even harder when it ends because you are even more invested than you are now.

Good luck!

Edited April 26, 2022 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

22 hours ago, DanaJ said:

I need advice on how to get over this MM, because I feel like I am ruining my own life, his life and his wife's life.

It's going to take dedication and discipline to get over MM.  First you would have to end the affair, then block him from contacting you and seek personal counseling.  Most of all you have to learn to love yourself more than MM. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by stillafool

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, DanaJ said:

always waiting and possibly expecting the worst. I blocked him, so he cannot contact me anymore. 

 Good you blocked him and can move forward in peace. Unfortunately "the worst" has already happened and that is getting involved in a go-nowhere situation.

[glows]

5 hours ago, DanaJ said:

It also fears me that limerence will take years to recover from?!

Most likely not. But I do agree with the comment above from Stillafool about loving yourself more. I think that has a great deal to do with how you recover. If you find yourself with a lot of time keep engaging in activities and hobbies that suit you. Don't fall into old habits. Keep moving forwards. 

[Bittersweetie]

Dana, I'm wondering if you're so fixated on MM so that you don't have to face the end of your long term relationship and the changes that will be in your life because of that. You are, in your head, using MM and your obsessive feelings as an escape in order not to face the uncertainty and reality of where your life is going now.

In terms of how to end it, you do it. You walk away and you choose you. You  already see this relationship is not healthy and it will not get healthier for you. You have enough on your plate ending your long term relationship (despite that being mutual)...you don't need any more on top of that with this affair. You take it one day, one minute at a time. You say, I will not think about him today. I will do it tomorrow. You can write everything down, just vomit up everything you think and want to say to him. Then tear it all up and throw it in the trash. That way you get everything out of your brain (because the more stuff swirls in your brain, the worse it gets) and you don't jeopardize NC. And you do NC. No contact, no googling, no social media, nothing.

Is it easy? Of course not. True growth is never quick or easy. But you can do it, you can and should find the strength to choose a healthier path for yourself. Good luck.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Bittersweetie

[Will am I]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:10 PM, DanaJ said:

Men are always interested in me, but for some reason I just don'''t see anything in them. I actaully just want to be single for a while. I try to distract myself with my hobbies, work and friends though.

I try to chose wisely, but I always end up in big messes

I visualize you must be an attractive person. As you say, men like you. Probably a part of the men that like you are attractive and good men. But you don’t notice them because your heart is attached to MM.

I don’t sense a real motivation to end your affair. As long as that motivation isn’t there, nothing will change.

Male perspective:

MM doesn’t have a problem. He has a wife where he can indulge in his roles as provider and caretaker, plus a lover where he can get the affirmation and intimacy and sex that he feels he lacks in his marriage. He’s actually doing great.

You are the one with the problem. Your marriage ended, all you have left is MM, and you know he’s not committing to you. That must be painful. And incrementally harder to ignore as the feelings of infatuation become a little softer. At the same time you are throwing away precious time. Time during which you could be building a real future.

My advice would be to not let this affair linger. You deserve more than the reserve spot. And your chances of finding a relationship with a future are slowly fading.

 

As for your last sentence: is it really a repeating pattern for you to end up in a messy situation? In that case it would be wise to seek counseling and fix the emotional wounds that make you behave like this.

 

I’m not judging. I just got out of an EA where I was the MM. It’s just that ever since the situation became uncomfortable for me and I engaged in some serious talk about my own situation, the patterns of EA and A relations started becoming clear. One of the patterns is that OW always loses (time, heartbreak, self esteem). It’s clear from a distance. I totally understand that it’s not so clear when you’re in the middle.