Girlfriend says she will leave me if I don't propose within the next 1-2 years?

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, Allupinnit said:

This is really unfair.  If he doesn't want to be married, but she DOES, it simply means they don't want the same things in life and therefore they are incompatible.  Like someone who really wants kids with someone who doesn't - those are things you can't really compromise on.

And if it's also a matter of his not wanting to be married to HER, then even more reason for her to find someone who DOES (want to marry HER).

I don't disagree with this in general.   I just don't agree with her methods, or anyone putting someone else "on the clock" so to speak.

I think if you even feel you have to give someone an ultimatum then you're not with the right person.  This is not how strong, collaborative lifelong unions typically begin, by using force to get what you want.  The way issues are approached before the marriage are an indicator of how they'll be approached during the marriage.

Edited May 5, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Allupinnit]

12 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I don't disagree with this in general.   I just don't agree with her methods, or anyone putting someone else "on the clock" so to speak.

I think if you even feel you have to give someone an ultimatum then you're not with the right person.  This is not how strong, collaborative lifelong unions typically begin, by using force to get what you want.  The way issues are approached before the marriage are an indicator of how they'll be approached during the marriage.

I'll agree with that.  My H really, really wanted to marry me and we were engaged in 8 months of meeting.  Looking back I think we definitely rushed things but I never had to ask where I stood with him and getting married wasn't a battle.

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

Yes. Absolutely wrong.

You're too old to not know better; a 21-year-old dragging his feet is not the same as a 27-year-old man dragging his feet; a 21-year-old dragging his feet is going to look very different than a 27-year-old man. You are taking away valuable years from the woman's life at this point, probably the point in her life where she is most fertile. There are times when you need to be cruel in order to be kind, so just do it and end it.

She will thank you in the end, believe me.

I hope you can come to this conclusion yourself. At some point, she will lay down the gauntlet, but it takes a better man to just be honest for the sake of both of their happiness.

She is also 27 years old with a man who told her from the start he didn't want marriage.  So isn't she the one dragging her feet here and wasting valuable years of her life?  At some point women have to be responsible for their own happiness.  I don't see this as him taking away her valuable years but her freely giving them away to him.  That isn't his fault.

[Wiseman2]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:42 AM, Bensharp1 said:

My girlfriend and I are both 27

Does she want children? Do you? You are already in a legal/financial mess buying real estate together as co-owners, which without marriage will be nightmarish to sever anyway.

If you wish to be a family unit it will benefit you financially and as far as children if you have  those legalities figured out. Research it.

Decide what your rebellion and emotional issues are about. If you continue your stance on this, be prepared for a real financial, legal and emotional mess when you have to sell the house because that's the trajectory you're on. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Allupinnit]

36 minutes ago, stillafool said:

She is also 27 years old with a man who told her from the start he didn't want marriage.  So isn't she the one dragging her feet here and wasting valuable years of her life?  At some point women have to be responsible for their own happiness.  I don't see this as him taking away her valuable years but her freely giving them away to him.  That isn't his fault.

I wonder if it was really posed as an ultimatum, though.  I'm guessing this conversation has been had ad nauseum between them and he probably HAS told her he "might" be ready in the future when she brings it up (as he has admitted).

But as women, we don't have all of the time in the world to dick around with someone who isn't "in the family way" so the 1-2 years from her side is probably her taking her fertility into account as well, whereas he has the luxury of "living in the moment" as he explained in his first post, doesn't think of the future.

They got together very young, sometimes people change and outgrow each other, I don't think we need to villainize either one of them; they just don't want the same things and to me it's insane they bought a home together without hashing this all out firstly.  Someone is going to need a roommate.

[Lotsgoingon]

If after three years, though, you can't imagine wanting to marry her,  my view is you just aren't into this women.

Most of the time when people don't even want to think about marriage, it's because they don't really like the partner they're with--don't like them enough to go further. You talk about seeing divorced couples growing up, I don't think that means anything. You meet the right woman, you'll find marriage looking better and better. 

There is ocean-wide difference between pleasantly liking and respecting someone you're dating and REALLY liking and being primitively attracted (physically and beyond) to someone you're dating. Huge difference. My guess is that this relationship simply isn't at the high enough joy level to lead you to want to marry her.

On the other side, your gf is saying you ARE at the level she needs to feel comfortable marrying you. Bottom line: she likes you more than you like her. That's the cold truth of the situation.

Question: if she were to leave your life tomorrow, how much would you really miss her? I don't mean missing chatting with her after work and miss sitting down and watching Netflix with her. I mean how much would you ache in your soul from missing her?

 

[basil67]

@elswyth @stillafool

He also said "I have explained to her that I don't feel ready, and maybe in the future I will." If he'd been 100% solid with his stance of not wanting marriage, I would not have said that he's stringing her along.  But he's left the door half open and she's been clinging to it.   So yeah, stringing her along.

And a house can be flipped. it's not like they had babies.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by basil67

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

She is also 27 years old with a man who told her from the start he didn't want marriage.  So isn't she the one dragging her feet here and wasting valuable years of her life?  At some point women have to be responsible for their own happiness.  I don't see this as him taking away her valuable years but her freely giving them away to him.  That isn't his fault.

I agree with you partially.

Considering the way this was said, the only thing that was wrong with it was when he mentioned that he might not feel ready, but "maybe one day he will." It's a bit like giving someone false hope by saying that one day he will be ready.

Real life is often far less like the melodrama. When people fall in love, they enjoy a physical relationship but perhaps aren't yet ready to get married. Sometimes, they don't communicate what they want to each other. What they want may change over time. Some people will settle for the comfortable or tolerate a situation that they are not too keen on.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Alpacalia

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Considering the way this was said, the only thing that was wrong with it was when he mentioned that he might not feel ready, but "maybe one day he will." It's a bit like giving someone false hope by saying that one day he will be ready.

Real life is often far less like the melodrama. When people fall in love, they enjoy a physical relationship but perhaps aren't yet ready to get married. Sometimes, they don't communicate what they want to each other. What they want may change over time. Some people will settle for the comfortable or tolerate a situation that they are not too keen on.

Yes, I agree he shouldn't have added the "maybe one day he will" nor should he have entered a mortgage agreement with her IMO.  He did say she brings it up weekly as if in the next week he will be ready.   At what point is she going to remember their first conversation and her ticking clock and move on to find a man who wants what she wants.  In my opinion his "maybe one day I will" comment is a crumb to shut her up.  The key word there is "maybe".  I see too many women get stuck on one guy and do everything they can to change him into the man they want him to be instead of accepting who he is and then get upset because he won't change for them.

[basil67]

@stillafool She's at the point right now.   Unless she has a history of false ultimatums, it sounds she's made a decision and has given him a heads up that she's at the point of leaving.   While I do see the logic in giving someone a final chance to come to the party (still remembering the recent poster who's long term gf just up and left due to no proposal), I do believe that if it takes a final warning to get a guy to propose, then the marriage is doomed anyway.  

[Alpacalia]

25 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yes, I agree he shouldn't have added the "maybe one day he will" nor should he have entered a mortgage agreement with her IMO.  He did say she brings it up weekly as if in the next week he will be ready.   At what point is she going to remember their first conversation and her ticking clock and move on to find a man who wants what she wants.  In my opinion his "maybe one day I will" comment is a crumb to shut her up.  The key word there is "maybe".  I see too many women get stuck on one guy and do everything they can to change him into the man they want him to be instead of accepting who he is and then get upset because he won't change for them.

I completely understand what you are saying.

Personally, I do not know why she would want to marry him in the first place. Does anyone want to marry a guy who doesn't come to the realization on his own that the woman he is with is the one that he wants to marry?

Look, something that might have been a more appropriate course of action for her is to attempt to understand what your hangups with marriage are in order to gain clarity about what's going on.

Added to that, she could have also frame it in a way that indicates that she really cares about both you and marriage, so that is another invaluable point of contention. Marriage is not a sign that you care about her and love her, nor is it a sign that you are committed to her needs, but it is a value she holds dear to her heart.

She does not need to explain why marriage is important to her because that is not the point.

If marriage does not play a role in making you happy, then why are you sticking around?

You wouldn't want to be with someone who is constantly trying to convince or change you. You know this will lead to unresolved issues and resentment for the rest of your relationship.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:42 AM, Bensharp1 said:

My girlfriend and I are both 27 and have been together for 3 years. We recently purchased a house together too. 

You have a couple of choices. Dig your heels in and stand on principal and get into a huge financial and legal mess.

You recently bought a house together? Why?  Did you drag her into this house deal because you couldn't afford it on your own? It's doubtful she signed all the bank paperwork thinking you'll never marry. 

Who says you're stuck for the next 60 years?  Does she know this house thing is just a convenience and test drive? 

You need to make up your mind. You're not being honest with her or yourself.

You're stringing her along with remarks like "who knows how I'll feel in 5 years?"

Roll the dice. Messy legal and financial battles or hope she swallows your idea of playing house. 

Just put the house on the market now. You are already at odds. She thought buying a house meant a future with you. You thought it meant you're getting what you wanted free and clear of commitment to her.

Carefully reflect on what you see going forward rather than accusing her of ultimatums out of the blue (very unlikely you never knew she wanted marriage) and thinking in terms of a bait and switch.

Reflect on who trapped who into what here? A house? A marriage? Think long and hard on this.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Wiseman2

[BaileyB]

15 hours ago, stillafool said:

She is also 27 years old with a man who told her from the start he didn't want marriage.  So isn't she the one dragging her feet here and wasting valuable years of her life?  At some point women have to be responsible for their own happiness. 

I think she is coming to that understanding now.

[Will am I]

On 5/4/2022 at 4:42 PM, Bensharp1 said:

Girlfriend and I are both 27 and have been together for 3 years. We recently purchased a house together too. Recently she has been saying that if I don't propose to her within the next 1-2 years that she will leave me and find someone who does want to marry her.

I have to take her side on this.

 

The perspectives on the wedding are typically very different between the genders. For an average guy, a wedding is a beautiful day which ends up costing way too much money. Money better spent on home improvements or a good car. Or if you're in the US, a downpayment on a home, the end of credit card debt, and two proper cars  For a lot of girls, this factor is not on their radar so much. This wedding day is something they have been planning from when they were six years old and trying on mommy's high heels. If your girlfriend is anything like that, please reconsider what you are withholding from her. It may be a much bigger deal than you see it.

 

Then after the wedding starts married life. The perspectives on the meaning of being married are also a big spectrum, with cultural, religious and also gender biases. One thing that a lot of women will resound is that marriage for them means lifelong commitment. Life long, even after the youth and beauty faded. Which gives them a sense of security.

 

Your girlfriend loves you so much, that she yielded into buying a house with you and starting a life together even without that wedding or that marriage. But that does not mean that her plans for the wedding and the marriage aren't hugely important to her.

 

From what I read in your story, it's the life long commitment that she's after (and that you have been withholding).

 

On 5/4/2022 at 4:42 PM, Bensharp1 said:

Maybe it's because everyone I known that have gotten married has ended in divorce and it's always been messy.

Maybe this is your reluctance.

You need to realize that it would be equally messy to break up without the marriage.

Imagine a couple who live together, spent years of their time together, had planned to stay together for a long time, own a house, have no other places to live separately,  and maybe even have children together. Breaking that up is going to be painful on so many levels. A lot of those elements already reflect in your story. It's an illusion that you could break up right now without you and your girlfriend getting severely hurt.

 

[Wiseman2]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:42 AM, Bensharp1 said:

I have explained that marriage isn't something that I'm really interested in, it's nothing against her 

Clearly you've discussed marriage and knew her views on this all along. However you also state "you may change your mind", so surely she did not invest money in a house thinking you were steadfast in this anti-marriage rebellion.

Is it possible that the "I may change my mind" sentiment happened when she decided to use her hard-earned money to invest in this house with you, but now that you have the house you're against it again because you don't like "messy divorces" even though this is just as big a mess.?

[Woggle]

Marriage is just a piece of paper so if she really means that much to you I don't see the big deal about doing it. If you live together for a long period of time most states will consider you common law anyway. I couldn't care less about marriage but I did it because it is important to my wife. That being said make you get a sold prenup and if she objects that will show her character. 

[Happy Lemming]

[ ] 

5 hours ago, Woggle said:

If you live together for a long period of time most states will consider you common law anyway.

Only eight states recognize common law marriage.  That is NOT most.

Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/common-law-marriage-states

Edited May 6, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
argumentative

[Els]

19 hours ago, basil67 said:

@elswyth @stillafool

He also said "I have explained to her that I don't feel ready, and maybe in the future I will." If he'd been 100% solid with his stance of not wanting marriage, I would not have said that he's stringing her along.  But he's left the door half open and she's been clinging to it.   So yeah, stringing her along.

And a house can be flipped. it's not like they had babies.

Hmm, okay, I interpreted his statement differently (in the context of all the other statements he has made), but it's possible that his gf is interpreting it the same way as you are. In that case, I agree 100% that the OP needs to tell her, with complete clarity, that this is not on his radar. No "maybe"s or "but"s.

A house can be flipped, yes, but a marriage can also be divorced from. Both have the potential to be messy, if the house is co-owned and both owners do not agree on when, how, or if to sell. My statement to him that he shouldn't have bought a house with her was not intended to imply that he should now stay, but rather to ask him why he's OK with the messiness of co-owning a house, but not with the messiness of being married.

[stillafool]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:42 AM, Bensharp1 said:

I know I should have a think about if I see myself marrying her in the future and be honest with her about that. But I really don't know if I do. I feel like being with someone for 3 years is no where near long enough to decide if you want to spend the next 60 odd years with that person.

You are only 27 which is quite young for a man so I can understand why you haven't thought of marriage yet and probably won't take it too seriously until around 30.  She is right to think about her future because she probably wants kids and doesn't want to waste her fertile years.  You need to be honest with her and not make promises that you aren't sure of which will hold up her progress.  It's not fair to her.  You need to let her go and untangle yourself from the joint mortgage so she can be free to find a man who is ready for marriage now.   Later when and if you do decide to marry it will probably be with a younger woman who has more time to wait before starting a family and you both will be ready at the same time.

[poppyfields]

On 5/4/2022 at 7:42 AM, Bensharp1 said:

Maybe it's because everyone I known that have gotten married has ended in divorce and it's always been messy. I'm also not one that really plans the future, I like to live in the moment.

Bolded - this is pretty much exactly how I have always felt, having witnessed my own parents' horrendous marriage and even more horrendous divorce and same with my friends' parents while growing up.   Where I live currently, the divorce rate is around 85%, the highest in the nation (U.S.) and yes it can get very very messy, expensive and painful.  Much more so than if you were to break up now, even owning a house together.

I have also preferred to live in the moment and all my long term relationships were conducted that way - one day at a time, in the moment.

BUT, I have been dating a man who has pushed (or gently nudged) me in a different direction.  And I find my previous mindset about this and my boundaries shifting, and I am beginning to feel much differently about it.  I can actually envision myself married to my boyfriend, even having a child!

There was no ultimatum, no drama, the shift was because WE are different together, our RL is different from my previous ones.  He challenges me in a way no other man did, and again it's all done without ultimatums which I find manipulative and without drama.

What I am trying to say is that I believe you will meet another woman one day with whom you won't feel so much negativity surrounding marriage and whom you will WANT to marry, on your own without ultimatums, manipulations or coercion.  She isn't it, sadly.

Life is a journey and your experience with her is just another building block on your path towards finding who IS right for you.  Or perhaps you won't ever find her, and THAT's okay too.  The important thing is to be true to yourself and what you want, realizing those wants may change in time, priorities change depending on who you're with and other factors. 

Again it's all a journey.  Embrace, enjoy.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by poppyfields

[Wiseman2]

Yet people get on highways and aircraft every day without thinking "what if we crash!?". So either get on board or exit.

This mortgage/co-owning thing is sort of like thinking if you drive 15 mph on the highway you're guaranteed not to crash.

Would you bother playing a match where you're betting on yourself that you'll lose? That's unfortunately about how much sense this logic makes.

Now.  If you rented a car for a test drive before buying and drove it at appropriate speeds, not too fast not too slow then that would make sense. Don't let anxiety, fear and bad examples run your life. Be the architect of your own life and have confidence in everything you do.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Wiseman2

[poppyfields]

22 hours ago, stillafool said:

At some point women have to be responsible for their own happiness.  I don't see this as him taking away her valuable years but her freely giving them away to him.  That isn't his fault.

Amen sista!!!

[Allupinnit]

18 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Amen sista!!!

I honestly think that's exactly what his gf is doing.

[dramafreezone]

On 5/5/2022 at 2:37 PM, basil67 said:

He also said "I have explained to her that I don't feel ready, and maybe in the future I will." If he'd been 100% solid with his stance of not wanting marriage, I would not have said that he's stringing her along.  But he's left the door half open and she's been clinging to it.   So yeah, stringing her along.

 

But what if he's truly not 100% in his stance of not wanting marriage?  Is anyone truly 100% in their stance of anything?  There can be exceptions to every rule.  

If he's saying something that he doesn't feel in his heart (i.e. lying) then that's wrong of course.  But I don't think he's saying that he will never get married and he's firm in that stance.  Most people are just plain indecisive.  It's her responsibility to take charge of her own life.  She knows how he feels *now* and if a committment is something she needs certainty on then this obviously isn't the right situation.

Edited May 7, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Lotsgoingon]

Look, the person in your gf's position (she likes you more than you like her) is susceptible to self-delusion. 

She probably thought that purchasing the house together meant you had changed your mind on marriage. Understandable on her part and yet naive. Marriage is something that you want to hear the words directly spoken. It would have been wiser for her to figure out where you were before you two purchased the house together. 

But OP, this isn't a legal dispute. You had to know--had to!!!!!--that she wanted to get married, even if she didn't say that directly. Scan your memory, people don't hide that they want to marry someone. Their body language and smiles give that away even when their words don't. 

Part of maturing is making sure you and your partner are on the same page! Not in some legal way (you never announced you had changed your mind on marriage) but in a practical way. Successful couples really probe each other to make sure they are thinking the same way and have the same goals. Having children is a similar issue. No room for vagueness there, no room to assume anything. You have to have direct conversations on having children. And any vagueness is a sign of trouble. 

So, you haven't done anything wrong in a moral sense. You just deluded yourself to think she was OK with never wanting to get married. And you were passive on this. 

Time to accept the truth: the vast majority of people dating for three years (beyond college) do think about getting married. To find people in your boat (not interested in getting married) you gotta find people who are hard-core anti conventional and that's a very small number, very small. And even most of these folks shift at some point (I know a number of them).

Marriage shifts from a ball and chain to an opportunity to create a great life with someone who makes life better. You feel no more chained and trapped to be with this person than you feel committing to a profession. 

I say take that history you mention (your parents divorcing) and go back and learn from it. Time to step into the adult role here and analyze what happened. I work with young people who do this all the time. They'll say stuff like, "Mom and dad just were not a good fit. They disagreed on everything ... Mom is much happier with my step-dad." Otherwise, your reaction is a kid-like reaction. It's helpless, passive. Like a kid overwhelmed by the world. There is no thinking--just emotional reaction.

The thinking you'd do to analyze marriages that fell apart is also the thinking you'd do is analyze marriages that stayed together or just good marriages (not the same as "staying together"). And you can use these insights to create a good relationship for yourself.