I think my marriage is over.

[nice-easy-day]

I never thought I would be in this position but I think my marriage is about to end.  Back story, my wife went through some problems over the last two years.  I stood right by her side the whole way but it's been very difficult for both of us.  I always thought we were going to make it through but I think she's giving up.  She is currently falling deep into depression, especially this last month.  It is very heart breaking for me to watch.  Basically she feels like she is a failure in life and won't snap out of it.  She always comments on how worthless she feels.  Of course I try to tell her that isn't true but she doesn't want to hear me.  Worst part of all is she refuses to get professional help.  I told her the other day I know she is suffering from depression and I asked her to please talk to someone about it.... anyone.

The other day she wrote me a letter and basically said how so sorry she is for everything she put me through the last couple years and how it's her fault.  She asked me to leave her because I deserve better than what she can give.  She also said she won't fight me on anything and I can have everything as long as I don't fight to take the kids.  She said this is my free pass to leave and she won't say or do anything negative through the whole divorce.  She also said she isn't going anywhere and it's something I'll have to initiate.  Now the most heartbreaking part is she said she knows she is in depression and doesn't believe she will ever pull out of it. 

I tried my best and also have been trying to get her help over the last year.  She won't.  She is too prideful or something.  I love my kids to death and I love my wife.  My biggest dream has always been to have a family and kids.  Now it's about to get stripped away from me.  I'm not happy and I don't even want to be at home or around my wife recently.  It's like constant tension and heartbreak in the air.  I have to walk on eggshells so I don't say or do anything wrong.  I'm being overly nice and trying to be the perfect husband.  But it's almost fake in a way because of the constant tension.  

My kids are 5 and 8.  This breaks my heart.  I don't want a divorce but my wife seems to think it's best.  I'm worried things will keep getting worse until the point there really is no other option.  I scheduled an appointment with a professional counselor next week.  I'm taking steps to do everything I can.  But there is only so much I can do.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

               

Edited May 6, 2022 by nice-easy-day

[Wiseman2]

10 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

I told her the other day I know she is suffering from depression and I asked her to please talk to someone about it.... anyone.

 I'm not happy and I don't even want to be at home or around my wife recently.  It's like constant tension and heartbreak in the air.  I have to walk on eggshells so I don't say or do anything wrong.

Sorry this is happening. How old is she? How long have you been married. Do you want a divorce? Will she or you file? Does she work? Is there someone else?

Try not to focus on diagnosing depression or suggesting "get help", "go to therapy" etc. That often alienates someone further. Instead ask that she see a physician for her physical health. Many many physical illnesses manifest with symptoms of depression.

She is fond of the children and seems like a devoted mother, so it may just be she's not ill or depressed, but rather is very unhappy in the marriage.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Wiseman2

[glows]

I'd follow through with your private counselling. Would your wife be open to attending also during separate sessions?

If she has opted out or stopped wanting to try in the marriage, there is little you can do. Private counselling will be to help you organize your thoughts and find what you need in order to live well and feel fulfilled in your life. That may include or not include your marriage and help you come to a decision on what's best for your wellbeing as an individual and father.

Edited May 6, 2022 by glows

[Will am I]

Do you have sufficient opportunity to talk privately? (you mention young children)

Is she still talking to you?

[nice-easy-day]

22 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. How old is she? How long have you been married. Do you want a divorce? Will she or you file? Does she work? Is there someone else?

Try not to focus on diagnosing depression or suggesting "get help", "go to therapy" etc. That often alienates someone further. Instead ask that she see a physician for her physical health. Many many physical illnesses manifest with symptoms of depression.

She is fond of the children and seems like a devoted mother, so it may just be she's not ill or depressed, but rather is very unhappy in the marriage.

Been married 10 years.  She is 37.  I know part of this, is she feels trapped not being able to do whatever she wants.  She wants freedom to be single again and do whatever she dreams of.  We try out best but when you get married and have kids it kinda puts a kink in things because now you are responsible for a family.  It's life and she feels screwed over.  She is mostly a SAHM and I bring in the income.  It was always this way.  I've openly suggested hiring a nanny many times over the years so she can go pursue a career.  She won't do that either.  I pretty much think she wants out of marriage and is putting it on me to do it.   

[glows]

22 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

Been married 10 years.  She is 37.  I know part of this, is she feels trapped not being able to do whatever she wants.  She wants freedom to be single again and do whatever she dreams of.  We try out best but when you get married and have kids it kinda puts a kink in things because now you are responsible for a family.  It's life and she feels screwed over.  She is mostly a SAHM and I bring in the income.  It was always this way.  I've openly suggested hiring a nanny many times over the years so she can go pursue a career.  She won't do that either.  I pretty much think she wants out of marriage and is putting it on me to do it.   

Have you come to terms that the marriage is over or that she wants out?

[nice-easy-day]

29 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Do you have sufficient opportunity to talk privately? (you mention young children)

Is she still talking to you?

Yes, we are talking.  We aren't in a fight or anything beyond just some tension.  But because of her depression it's like I don't even know her.  She isn't the person I married and have known for the last 9 years.  The last time we talked about the situation she basically said she feels like a she never accomplished any of her goals in life and feels like a failure.  And that it is something she is going to have to learn to accept and figure it out for herself.  If I didn't know any better I would say it sounds like a classic midlife crisis when you wake up and find out the last 10 years blew by and you're almost 40 y.o.  When we got married she wanted to be a mom and have kids.  That's what we did.  

[nice-easy-day]

3 minutes ago, glows said:

Have you come to terms that the marriage is over or that she wants out?

I don't know.  That's what I'm trying to figure out.  She told me she wants me to leave because I deserve better and I don't deserve everything she has put me through the last couple years.  It could be her feeling sorry for herself and myself.  Or it could be her way of getting me to pull the trigger on something she secretly wants.  I asked her straight up.  She said she isn't going anywhere and if I don't leave then I'll just have to live with her the way she is.  It feels so crazy to even be in this situation.  I'd rather not go into the details but she has had some physical issues with her health starting two years ago.  She was in an accident.  That is where all her feelings about being a failure are mostly coming from.  

[glows]

3 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

I don't know.  That's what I'm trying to figure out.  She told me she wants me to leave because I deserve better and I don't deserve everything she has put me through the last couple years.  It could be her feeling sorry for herself and myself.  Or it could be her way of getting me to pull the trigger on something she secretly wants.  I asked her straight up.  She said she isn't going anywhere and if I don't leave then I'll just have to live with her the way she is.  It feels so crazy to even be in this situation.  I'd rather not go into the details but she has had some physical issues with her health starting two years ago.  She was in an accident.  That is where all her feelings about being a failure are mostly coming from.  

Private counselling may be able to help you deal with some of your thoughts and feelings about this or anything that might have bottled up over the years. Several of us have left marriages that were no longer conducive due to mental health issues or addictions. I think you may need to think through and see for yourself whether there is any part of the marriage that can be salvaged. No one can reach that conclusion but you in your decision of whether to leave or stay. I'm very sorry that your wife has encountered this hardship also with her health. 

[salparadise]

How we feel at any given moment is not who we are, it's just a temporary state of the emotions, a transient state. And depression is one of the most successfully treated and cured –– yes *cured* –– mental health issues. There is hope and since you don't want divorce I don't think you should give up, at least not yet. Feelings of worthlessness is a common symptom. Go to your therapist and ask for guidance. It seems obvious that she needs to be in services, but how to get her there is the question. The therapist may have ideas. Enlisting the help of family or friends could work, but see what the therapist has to say and follow his/her lead. Wishing you the best.

PS: and of course take care of you, obviously! 

Edited May 6, 2022 by salparadise

[nice-easy-day]

24 minutes ago, glows said:

Private counselling may be able to help you deal with some of your thoughts and feelings about this or anything that might have bottled up over the years. Several of us have left marriages that were no longer conducive due to mental health issues or addictions. I think you may need to think through and see for yourself whether there is any part of the marriage that can be salvaged. No one can reach that conclusion but you in your decision of whether to leave or stay. I'm very sorry that your wife has encountered this hardship also with her health. 

It helps to hear honest truth.  The good thing is my counselor met with me about a year ago so he knows intimately about my situation and the past hardships.  One step at a time.  I hope we get through this and I'm mostly over-reacting.  But the truth is I realize there is a bang point where it's better to move on for the sake of everyone.  Hopefully I'm not there yet.  

[mark clemson]

If your wife gets diagnosed with major depression, possibly there is a chemical issue in her brain and she can be prescribed medication to treat it. Possibly just (non-drug) therapy will help her. Consider seeing if you can go the route of getting her treated before agreeing to a divorce that you don't actually want. It's not a "free pass" you're interested in + IF you end up divorcing anyhow, at least you will know for yourself that you tried everything possible to salvage things.

Edited May 7, 2022 by mark clemson

[Will am I]

The hardest part about depression is to unwind the knots… Which feelings are induced by the imbalance of depression, which feelings are authentic?

 

when your wife speaks about not accomplishing any of her life goals this can mean both. Either the depression just makes her feel like a total failure. Or she had these big plans and none of them come true.

 

what I would do, is to ask her about her life goals. A person suffering from depression is not able to speak of those things with passion anymore. that conversation should make things a little bit clearer. Plus it shows that you care.

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

Been married 10 years.  She is 37.  I pretty much think she wants out of marriage and is putting it on me to do it.   

Yes, sorry she does seem to simply want to get out of that rut. Either she can file or you can file, but since she's without an income, you'll be charged for her attorney as well as yours.

It may be best to get legal advice. Especially before she does. You may have an uncontested divorce but either way you'll be paying child support and other costs.

She doesn't sound depressed, she sounds unhappily married and hates the rut. 

[glows]

8 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

It helps to hear honest truth.  The good thing is my counselor met with me about a year ago so he knows intimately about my situation and the past hardships.  One step at a time.  I hope we get through this and I'm mostly over-reacting.  But the truth is I realize there is a bang point where it's better to move on for the sake of everyone.  Hopefully I'm not there yet.  

Has she been diagnosed with depression? This sounds like your interpretation of her mental health and also her own interpretation of it and not an actual diagnosis. There's very little you can do when someone is resistant to professional help. I would think many marriages or relationships continue on like this due to a sense of loyalty and obligation. 

Whether she's clinically depressed or depressed from being in an unhappy marriage is unknown. Best not to jump to conclusions about her mental health versus her not being happy being with you as a husband or person.

 

10 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

I tried my best and also have been trying to get her help over the last year.  She won't.  She is too prideful or something.  I love my kids to death and I love my wife.  My biggest dream has always been to have a family and kids.  Now it's about to get stripped away from me.  I'm not happy and I don't even want to be at home or around my wife recently.  It's like constant tension and heartbreak in the air.  I have to walk on eggshells so I don't say or do anything wrong.  I'm being overly nice and trying to be the perfect husband.  But it's almost fake in a way because of the constant tension.  

My kids are 5 and 8.  This breaks my heart.  I don't want a divorce but my wife seems to think it's best.  I'm worried things will keep getting worse until the point there really is no other option.  I scheduled an appointment with a professional counselor next week.  I'm taking steps to do everything I can.  But there is only so much I can do.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

               

Your kids aren't going to be stripped from you but you will have to figure out custody and time spent with them. It sounds from the above that she wants the divorce but is trying to land the blow softly. She has checked out and regardless of the reasons, it doesn't seem that she wants the marriage anymore. 

She may be resisting seeing a doctor or a diagnosis because she's aware that she's not clinically depressed either. She just wants to get out of this marriage and is trying to get you to see the same. 

[Weezy1973]

13 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

Been married 10 years.  She is 37.  I know part of this, is she feels trapped not being able to do whatever she wants.  She wants freedom to be single again and do whatever she dreams of.  

Sounds like a midlife crisis to me.  Do you suspect her of cheating on you? 

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

I told her the other day I know she is suffering from depression

It's sort of like all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles. Meaning depressed people are miserable but not all miserable people have depression.

It seems more like years of dissatisfaction and misery that can not be fixed with "get a job" or "get therapy".

[dramafreezone]

It seems like she wants out of the relationship but doesn't want to be he one to be the "bad guy" or woman in this case.  She probably wishes that there was something bad that you did to her to give her an easy out, but apparently your conduct has not given her a good reason to leave.  I had a friend that was in an unhappy marriage, and she said that she almost wished that he cheated on her so that leaving him would be easier.

It takes two to tango.  If she doesn't want to be in the marriage, doesn't want to work on the marriage by fixing herself, then I don't see what recourse you have.  You have to respect yourself in believing that you and your kids deserve a more functional version of her, even if that means that you won't technically be together.  I definitely believe on working through marriage difficulties but she has to be willing.   She has to want to want to get better, and she doesn't want to get better *With You*.  Maybe (and I suspect) she will want to improve once she's free again to date who she wants.

Edited May 7, 2022 by dramafreezone

[Will am I]

The spouse feeling unhappy in her marriage and wanting out is one working theory, depresssion is another. 
 

From what I read here the deression theory is very speculative. But it is one angle to investigate. 

If the spouse is indeed suffering from clinical depression, it’s a very different story. Without the depression, the marriage is done with. 

[nice-easy-day]

13 hours ago, glows said:

 

13 hours ago, glows said:

 

 

4 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

It seems like she wants out of the relationship but doesn't want to be he one to be the "bad guy" or woman in this case.  She probably wishes that there was something bad that you did to her to give her an easy out, but apparently your conduct has not given her a good reason to leave.  I had a friend that was in an unhappy marriage, and she said that she almost wished that he cheated on her so that leaving him would be easier.

It takes two to tango.  If she doesn't want to be in the marriage, doesn't want to work on the marriage by fixing herself, then I don't see what recourse you have.  You have to respect yourself in believing that you and your kids deserve a more functional version of her, even if that means that you won't technically be together.  I definitely believe on working through marriage difficulties but she has to be willing.   She has to want to want to get better, and she doesn't want to get better *With You*.  Maybe (and I suspect) she will want to improve once she's free again to date who she wants.

    I really do think she is pushing my hand.  I want to call her bluff and see where she is at but I'm not going to do anything brash at the moment.  I'm going to think it through and talk to a professional counselor first.  Thanks.

 

   

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's sort of like all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles. Meaning depressed people are miserable but not all miserable people have depression.

It seems more like years of dissatisfaction and misery that can not be fixed with "get a job" or "get therapy". 

That makes a lot of sense.  In this case,  I think misery has caused depression.  So get rid of the misery and you cure depression?

Edited May 7, 2022 by nice-easy-day

[nice-easy-day]

We had a talk today.  I asked her to just please tell me what she is going through.  This is what she told me.  1- She feels stuck in marriage and doesn't like the constraint of taking care of the kids.  She feels like she has no freedom to do what she wants because her schedule is with the kids. 2- She feels like she has to share decisions about the household with me instead of her just doing what she wants. 3- She wants to forward herself in a career instead of just being a mom so when she is done being a mom she can be something better. 4- Her dad is in poor health and her mom now has nothing to fall back on.  She doesn't want to end up like her mom.  She wants more security so that if something would happen to me or my job she would be able to take over and cover everything. 5- Marriage just didn't turn out to be the way she expected.  It's mundane and boring.  She had visions of us traveling all over etc, and doing whatever she wanted.  Now she realizes that isn't reality.

I asked her why she decided to get married in the first place.  She said she had a vision in her head of what it would be like and it just didn't turn out that way.  She feels a little lied to about life and was always told by everyone around her she can always do whatever she wants (I blame her parents for that, she was very shielded growing up) .  Now she feels she has to get my 50% input on everything and she doesn't like that.

The conversation ended with her saying this is something that she knows she needs to accept as reality.  There is nothing that I have done or can do differently and that I've been great.  It's just that marriage and kids isn't what she thought it would be like and that there is nothing I can do to help her except give her time and space to figure things out.

So that's that.  I know what I wrote could come across that I'm a domineering person in my marriage but that isn't the case at all.  She has never EVER claimed to me that I am either..  Actually, from the start I have been fairly submissive to her.  It's just my personality.  From my perspective my wife actually does a whole lot of what she wants to do.  She just doesn't like the fact that I have a say or an opinion in things apparently.

I bring in 90% of our income.  She doesn't even have to work.  She works part time (a few days a month)  just to have something else to do.  She can go wherever she wants and do whatever she wants (except for the kids issue).  She does volunteer work and takes little trips here and there (mostly with the kids) and visits her parents 2 hours away whenever she wants.  She is a 90% SAHM. 

I have a very fortunate job.  The last 7 years I've worked about 180 days a year.  The days I have to go to work, I wake up at 5:00 a.m. and on average I'm home around 1:00 p.m.  Just eight hours a day, half the year.  The catch is, I'm on call just about 365 days a year.  So actually making a schedule for my wife to go out and do what she wants is a bit of a problem.  I feel lucky but my wife feels otherwise apparently.  The point is, I'm at home a lot and I do a lot of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, watching the kids, auto maintenance, remodeling the bathroom, painting the house etc etc.  Honestly, we fully co-parent when we can but when I have to work, I have to work.  As I sit here and write this, my wife took the kids to a birthday party and I cleaned the house up and will have dinner ready when they get home.  I'm not an absent husband.  It's frustrating.  I do my best.

The strange thing to me is this.  I have no doubt that 100% she loves her kids and would NEVER want to be away from them or leave them.  But if we got a divorce, then she would have to go out and get a real full time job.  Probably split time between us and have a babysitter the rest of the time.  She would actually have less time with her kids and less time to do whatever she wants, when she wants.  Right now, if that is what she wants, she has it by the balls and she's fixing to screw it all up.

I know someone will ask the question about hiring a nanny.  I've suggested this several times in the past to my wife and she will have nothing to do with it.  Her answer is absolutely not!  I think the reason she won't pull the trigger on it is because she will feel judged by her mom and other people.  Truth is, we can afford it no problem.  I guess unhappiness and divorce is the better option in her mind. 

I'm being as honest and open as I can.  I don't understand so much of this.  I hope someone can give some insight.  It's very difficult to live with someone who isn't satisfied with life.  This isn't the first time this issue has come up between us.  The last time was just before COVID.  Everything was great.  It's almost like, IMO, she can never be happy and never will be happy.  Or, when things are going well in life she goes and messes with something that isn't broken.  Or maybe she just doesn't love me anymore and wants to move on in life.

    

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

1- She feels stuck in marriage and doesn't like the constraint of taking care of the kids.

It's good you spoke. It seems like misery and midlife issues. There's nothing you can do because she doesn't want to be married.

[nice-easy-day]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

The spouse feeling unhappy in her marriage and wanting out is one working theory, depresssion is another. 
 

From what I read here the deression theory is very speculative. But it is one angle to investigate. 

If the spouse is indeed suffering from clinical depression, it’s a very different story. Without the depression, the marriage is done with. 

From talking with her I think her unhappiness is the root cause of her depression.  So basically, the marriage could be done with.

It's so strange.  I know she respects and loves me.  I know she loves her kids too.  But I don' think she loves being married.  If she wants out I'm going to give it to her.  Neither one of us deserve being somewhere in life we don't want to be.  She's the one who wanted to get married and have kids.  Go figure.    

[nice-easy-day]

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Sounds like a midlife crisis to me.  Do you suspect her of cheating on you? 

Midlife crisis yes,  Her cheating?  I'm 99.9% sure that isn't the issue here.  But anything is possible.  I have NO signs to point me to that conclusion though.

 

[glows]

12 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

I bring in 90% of our income.  She doesn't even have to work.  She works part time (a few days a month)  just to have something else to do.  She can go wherever she wants and do whatever she wants (except for the kids issue).  She does volunteer work and takes little trips here and there (mostly with the kids) and visits her parents 2 hours away whenever she wants.  She is a 90% SAHM. 

I hope someone can give some insight.  It's very difficult to live with someone who isn't satisfied with life.  This isn't the first time this issue has come up between us.  The last time was just before COVID.  Everything was great.  It's almost like, IMO, she can never be happy and never will be happy.  Or, when things are going well in life she goes and messes with something that isn't broken.  Or maybe she just doesn't love me anymore and wants to move on in life.

    

It's better that you remove these assumptions that her not having to work is to her benefit because it sounds like the opposite is the case. She told you this: 

" She wants to forward herself in a career instead of just being a mom so when she is done being a mom she can be something better. 4- Her dad is in poor health and her mom now has nothing to fall back on.  She doesn't want to end up like her mom.  She wants more security so that if something would happen to me or my job she would be able to take over and cover everything. 5- Marriage just didn't turn out to be the way she expected.  It's mundane and boring.  She had visions of us traveling all over etc, and doing whatever she wanted.  Now she realizes that isn't reality."

While in your mind you think you're doing her a great favour being a SAHM, she has other thoughts. She's telling you there that she wants a differnet life, not to be a SAHM exclusively or be so out of touch without a career or out of the workforce that she finds herself dependant on anyone (like her mother). 

I think the more you accept this and treat that view with respect, respecting her, the more likely she'll want to work with you and be much less resentful towards you. She's asking for space and time, it seems. So give her that space and time but I don't think it sounds good. She feels restricted and resentful of the marriage, possibly towards you for not understanding her or what she wants.