I think my marriage is over.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately, it's not that you are a bad father/husband so you can't fix this.

It's that she simply is tired of being a housewife or married in general. The good news is it seems like you'll have an uncontested divorce.

Let her go. There's no point in both of you being unhappy. Try a mediator or some way of dissolving the marriage with a fair and equitable solution to dividing assets and custody.

[nice-easy-day]

2 minutes ago, glows said:

It's better that you remove these assumptions that her not having to work is to her benefit because it sounds like the opposite is the case. She told you this: 

" She wants to forward herself in a career instead of just being a mom so when she is done being a mom she can be something better. 4- Her dad is in poor health and her mom now has nothing to fall back on.  She doesn't want to end up like her mom.  She wants more security so that if something would happen to me or my job she would be able to take over and cover everything. 5- Marriage just didn't turn out to be the way she expected.  It's mundane and boring.  She had visions of us traveling all over etc, and doing whatever she wanted.  Now she realizes that isn't reality."

While in your mind you think you're doing her a great favour being a SAHM, she has other thoughts. She's telling you there that she wants a differnet life, not to be a SAHM exclusively or be so out of touch without a career or out of the workforce that she finds herself dependant on anyone (like her mother). 

I think the more you accept this and treat that view with respect, respecting her, the more likely she'll want to work with you and be much less resentful towards you. She's asking for space and time, it seems. So give her that space and time but I don't think it sounds good. She feels restricted and resentful of the marriage, possibly towards you for not understanding her or what she wants.

Yes, I've thought about that a million times over and that is how I feel.  So how do you suppose we go about accomplishing that?  The only answer I can come up with is hiring a full time nanny.  If she doesn't want to be a mom I'm 110% in support of her in that choice.  I've told her that many times.

I can't quit my job and give up $250K a year so I can stay at home while she goes out and makes 80k a year.  That won't work.  She doesn't want that either because I've straight up offered it to her (rather insincerely mind you) and she said no.

I get it that she doesn't want to be a SAHM.  But that's what she initially wanted when we got married.  If she's changed her mind that is O.K. but she isn't offering any real solutions to get her out of that problem.  Why is this burden falling on me?  Her princess world lied to her but I didn't get the memo where that was my fault.  Frustrating.

  

[glows]

Just now, nice-easy-day said:

Yes, I've thought about that a million times over and that is how I feel.  So how do you suppose we go about accomplishing that?  The only answer I can come up with is hiring a full time nanny.  If she doesn't want to be a mom I'm 110% in support of her in that choice.  I've told her that many times.

I can't quit my job and give up $250K a year so I can stay at home while she goes out and makes 80k a year.  That won't work.  She doesn't want that either because I've straight up offered it to her (rather insincerely mind you) and she said no.

I get it that she doesn't want to be a SAHM.  But that's what she initially wanted when we got married.  If she's changed her mind that is O.K. but she isn't offering any real solutions to get her out of that problem.  Why is this burden falling on me?  Her princess world lied to her but I didn't get the memo where that was my fault.  Frustrating.

  

Give her the space and time she asked for and ask her what she needs from you as a husband. It's your opportunity to hear directly from her what she would need if she wanted to stay married to you. It also shows that you're open to her suggestions or any suggestions or ideas she has. What I'm hearing right now is that you're frustrated. You don't need to come up with all the solutions yourself. What you might want to do is practice listening to her a little more closely, sincerely and respectfully.

If she tells you that she doesn't want to be married to you or she has nothing she needs from you as a husband you have your answer. She doesn't want to be in this marriage any longer and dragging it out will hurt you and your family in the long run. 

The nature of your relationship and your dynamics are changing. She can still take night courses and both of you may choose to work on the marriage. One doesn't just start working after a long hiatus out of work. Her education may be obsolete. 

Right now there is a lot of tension. Try to bring that down a bit.

[nice-easy-day]

9 minutes ago, glows said:

If she tells you that she doesn't want to be married to you or she has nothing she needs from you as a husband you have your answer.... 

Right now there is a lot of tension. Try to bring that down a bit.

Thank you for the gentle advice.  That is what I plan to do.  I owe it to her to listen to what she SAID and not listen to what I THINK.  If it's untruthful, it will come out in due time.

    

[nice-easy-day]

35 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately, it's not that you are a bad father/husband so you can't fix this.

It's that she simply is tired of being a housewife or married in general. The good news is it seems like you'll have an uncontested divorce.

Let her go. There's no point in both of you being unhappy. Try a mediator or some way of dissolving the marriage with a fair and equitable solution to dividing assets and custody.

You might be right.  Where I'm at now is to give it one last honest chance.  In the mean time I can start to get my stuff in order if the worst happens.  First, I'm going to meet with a professional counselor, one on one.  Then I'm going to round up support from my family and loved ones.  It won't be easy.  I'm not the one who started this mess so why should I not prepare myself for the worst?  Hopefully it doesn't happen but I'm to the point where I need to start to seriously prepare for the worst and pray I don't need it.

What breaks my heart is, even if we patch things up I don't think it will ever be the same again.  There is that fire that I don't believe will ever come back.  For me it would, for her no.  I believe every bad thing in life makes a person stronger  So cliche' but if life gives you lemons you make lemonade.  That's F-ing me and how I roll.  Not so much my wife.     

Edited May 7, 2022 by nice-easy-day

[glows]

You may want to consult privately with a lawyer as well. You'll need sound legal advice in your jurisdiction in the event you need to separate or divorce. Have your information on hand. You will be more at peace or decisive when the time comes no matter how painful it is.

It's unlikely to be the same regardless of how things turn out. Some couples grow stronger reaching a crisis like this and others flail or don't make it. It always takes two. That's what therapy or personal counselling is for so remain dedicated to that and keep reflecting on what you want out of life or a marriage. 

Feelings of anger, frustration are all normal. When communication breaks down like this and there are big changes we feel disappointment and pangs of loss of control and fear, maybe even terror due to what lies ahead and the unknown. You described identifying your biggest dreams as having an intact nuclear family, you identify with that and that will change and transform or evolve over time if you divorce or separate. Arm yourself with knowledge such as appropriate legal advice and enlist the help of trained professionals like therapists, counsellors and doctors if you need help staying focused and on track. 

Try thinking of this time as owing the most to both yourself and your children. Your wife has asked to put things on hold. If you've spent your days identifying as her husband and the one to look for solutions that may also have to be put on hold. Do you see the shift and how you'll have to change and refocus? 

Having said all that, you're not yet divorcing so find a way to keep busy and productive, less destructive in thoughts if possible. Vent if you need to. 

 

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

 I need to start to seriously prepare for the worst and pray I don't need it.

Yes, hope for the best, plan for the worst. Your first stop should be a consultation with an attorney for advice regarding your situation. That's not filing for divorce, but it will help you prepare and organize.

By the time she stated she wants out, she's deliberated and planned for a long long time.  Her people and professionals already have the heads up so telling you is the last step for her, not the first.

[ExpatInItaly]

I think that, sadly, she just doesn't want to be married anymore. Or a full.-time mom. 

When you reach the point where she's refuting any possible alternatives or solutions, it's because she's already decided that what she really wants is to end this. She just wants you to be the one to bear that burden of pulling the plug by painting you into a corner where she shuts down everything else. 

I'm sorry, OP. 

[vla1120]

14 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

Yes, I've thought about that a million times over and that is how I feel.  So how do you suppose we go about accomplishing that?  The only answer I can come up with is hiring a full time nanny.  If she doesn't want to be a mom I'm 110% in support of her in that choice.  I've told her that many times.

I can't quit my job and give up $250K a year so I can stay at home while she goes out and makes 80k a year.  That won't work.  She doesn't want that either because I've straight up offered it to her (rather insincerely mind you) and she said no.

I get it that she doesn't want to be a SAHM.  But that's what she initially wanted when we got married.  If she's changed her mind that is O.K. but she isn't offering any real solutions to get her out of that problem.  Why is this burden falling on me?  Her princess world lied to her but I didn't get the memo where that was my fault.  Frustrating.

I'm glad you made an appt with a therapist. You cannot control her emotions and you are not responsible for her happiness. The best you can do is address it from your angle with a therapist. However, it seems you have a pretty good idea of what is going on and how to handle it. If I were you, and if your household income allows it, I would go ahead and tell your wife "We're hiring a nanny so that you can pursue your interests outside the home." Then work with her to hire someone. From there, she has an opportunity to further her education and/or find a full time job that fulfills her. Personally, I understand her not wanting to find herself in the same position as her mother. Watching my mother be abandoned, penniless and ill, is what prompted me to make sure I maintained a career that would allow me to support myself and my children on my own. 

13 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

You might be right.  Where I'm at now is to give it one last honest chance.  In the mean time I can start to get my stuff in order if the worst happens.  First, I'm going to meet with a professional counselor, one on one.  Then I'm going to round up support from my family and loved ones.  It won't be easy.  I'm not the one who started this mess so why should I not prepare myself for the worst?  Hopefully it doesn't happen but I'm to the point where I need to start to seriously prepare for the worst and pray I don't need it.

What breaks my heart is, even if we patch things up I don't think it will ever be the same again.  There is that fire that I don't believe will ever come back.  For me it would, for her no.  I believe every bad thing in life makes a person stronger  So cliche' but if life gives you lemons you make lemonade.  That's F-ing me and how I roll.  Not so much my wife.  

It sounds like you are an optimist and she is a pessimist. First of all, you leaving is not going to improve her lot in life. She'd just go from a SAHM to being a single SAHM. She'd probably feel even more stuck, so I don't know what she's thinking. She's feeling sorry for herself for no reason, in my opinion. I think, once you remove the "obstacle" of her being a SAHM, she's going to find out pretty quickly that having a full time career isn't going to improve her lot in life. It's just going to add double the stress - taking care of the household and kids AND having the stress of a job.

All of that being said, I feel like this marriage is salvageable. She just needs to get out of her own way and you can help her do that by removing any obstacles to her pursuing what she believes will make her happy. Get the nanny and talk to her about pursuing what she wants to do. At least then you'll know you've done everything in your power to help her. The rest is up to her. 

[Will am I]

If there is anything left to save, time is critical.

Talk about her goals. Listen to her. Acknowledge her resentments (which is almost the opposite as explaining or defending why choices were made in that way). Make a plan for the future. Make significant changes to your life.

If I read the above, why on earth is she a stay at home mom?

 

[nice-easy-day]

1 hour ago, vla1120 said:

First of all, you leaving is not going to improve her lot in life. She'd just go from a SAHM to being a single SAHM. She'd probably feel even more stuck, so I don't know what she's thinking.

That's the part that perplexes me the most.  When I envision what life would be like for both of us if we divorce I see things being harder, not easier.  Apparently she has it made out in her head it would be easier.  But maybe that's no surprise, she had a false vision of what marriage would be like in the first place and I think she has a false vision of what it would be like on the other side now.

Whatever the reasons it doesn't matter now.  What matters is if she decides to stay or leave.  My hands are sort of tied.  She told me strait up "there is nothing you can do differently".  So it makes it hard because if I knew I had to make a change and what that change was it's something I could work on. The obvious thing here is she needs to stop being a SAHM and find more purpose in life.  But that isn't exactly my burden to carry.  It's something she has to initiate for herself.  I've offered the nanny route but she doesn't want anything to do with it.  Maybe it's something I could push for.  Or just say, how about we just try it for a month and see how it goes.    

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

When I envision what life would be like for both of us if we divorce I see things being harder, not easier.

It will be harder for you, yes. However she is not happy being a housewife. That's the point. It's not about employment, it's about not wanting to be stuck in domestic drudgery anymore. it's not how much you make, it's about living her own life rather than one that suits you. You will be forced to pay for and have the kids so she has more free time and money.

[nice-easy-day]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I think that, sadly, she just doesn't want to be married anymore. Or a full.-time mom. 

When you reach the point where she's refuting any possible alternatives or solutions, it's because she's already decided that what she really wants is to end this. She just wants you to be the one to bear that burden of pulling the plug by painting you into a corner where she shuts down everything else. 

I'm sorry, OP. 

This morning I told her that I understand the way she feels and acknowledged I would give her time to think like she asked for.  I also told her if she still decides she doesn't want to be married I would go ahead and initiate a divorce for her.  This is what she basically asked for in the first place in a round about way.... that I have a free pass to leave her.  I told her I don't want that.

I don't know if it was the right way or time to do it, but I put the ball back in her court to see where she is really at with divorce.  I'm making her tell me she wants out.... instead of her telling me "you deserve better so if you want to leave, go ahead".  Does that make sense?  I think it's a little crappy of her to put it all on me.  But maybe deep down she knows she wouldn't pull the trigger herself.  Or at least not at this point.

It makes me sick to my stomach to think she might come back and say "yes, I want a divorce".  If she does, I'm not sure I would even follow through and be able to initiate it.  At least not right away.   

[nice-easy-day]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It will be harder for you, yes. However she is not happy being a housewife. That's the point. It's not about employment, it's about not wanting to be stuck in domestic drudgery anymore. it's not how much you make, it's about living her own life rather than one that suits you. You will be forced to pay for and have the kids so she has more free time and money.

According to what she told me, she wants the kids.  I can have everything else.  I know that isn't the way it's going to go down if she hires a lawyer.  It was probably a bait and switch to get the ball rolling and make it sound like she won't fight me on anything but at the last minute I get kicked in the nuts.  Yeah I'm not stupid.  

[glows]

1 hour ago, nice-easy-day said:

That's the part that perplexes me the most.  When I envision what life would be like for both of us if we divorce I see things being harder, not easier.  Apparently she has it made out in her head it would be easier.  But maybe that's no surprise, she had a false vision of what marriage would be like in the first place and I think she has a false vision of what it would be like on the other side now.

Whatever the reasons it doesn't matter now.  What matters is if she decides to stay or leave.  My hands are sort of tied.  She told me strait up "there is nothing you can do differently".  So it makes it hard because if I knew I had to make a change and what that change was it's something I could work on. The obvious thing here is she needs to stop being a SAHM and find more purpose in life.  But that isn't exactly my burden to carry.  It's something she has to initiate for herself.  I've offered the nanny route but she doesn't want anything to do with it.  Maybe it's something I could push for.  Or just say, how about we just try it for a month and see how it goes.    

Divorce would be easier because she doesn't have to discuss her personal finances and ongoings with you in the long run. There's some resentment there in the way the finances are managed and that you're the provider but she may overall just be frustrated being married to you. 

If both of you decide on divorce, don't prolong the situation. 

[vla1120]

29 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

This morning I told her that I understand the way she feels and acknowledged I would give her time to think like she asked for.  I also told her if she still decides she doesn't want to be married I would go ahead and initiate a divorce for her.  This is what she basically asked for in the first place in a round about way.... that I have a free pass to leave her.  I told her I don't want that.

I don't know if it was the right way or time to do it, but I put the ball back in her court to see where she is really at with divorce.  I'm making her tell me she wants out.... instead of her telling me "you deserve better so if you want to leave, go ahead".  Does that make sense?  I think it's a little crappy of her to put it all on me.  But maybe deep down she knows she wouldn't pull the trigger herself.  Or at least not at this point.

It makes me sick to my stomach to think she might come back and say "yes, I want a divorce".  If she does, I'm not sure I would even follow through and be able to initiate it.  At least not right away.   

Good. Call her bluff. Go one step further and tell her you are not going to file for divorce because you would rather work on the marriage. Tell her you are not leaving the home. If she wants out, she has to leave. Tell her you are looking into a nanny with or without her help to free up her time to go back to school, or get a full time job, or whatever. In some respects, I think you should actually take the ball OUT of her court and initiate a few things that will free up her time to do what she wants (hence the full time nanny.) Make sure she knows how much you love her and want to keep your family together. 

Does she have marketable skills? Is there something she'd like to go to school for to get certified or earn a degree? Is there also something you can do to spice up the marriage, since she seems to be "bored"? Can you take her away for a long weekend somewhere romantic? Or, if you think she needs time away to herself, maybe she can have a girl's weekend with some friends. Maybe even a temporary change of landscape would snap her out of her funk a little bit.

[Wiseman2]

38 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

It was probably a bait and switch to get the ball rolling and make it sound like she won't fight me on anything but at the last minute I get kicked in the nuts.  

That's why your first stop needs to be a consultation with an attorney. Do not make deals or promise anything. Step way back. Do not try wining and dining. She wants out and nothing you can do will make her happy.

It's not about her working outside the house as a well as at home. It's about not wanting to be married in general or to you in particular. 

Her musings mean nothing. She can not decide on some ridiculous DIY 'divorce' and decide the terms. A marriage is a legal contract that needs to be dissolved through the courts.

It's not her call. The courts also decide what's in the children's best interest. The courts protect the children, not the warring parents. This includes their ages, each parent's situation/suitability, finances, etc.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Wiseman2

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, nice-easy-day said:

The obvious thing here is she needs to stop being a SAHM and find more purpose in life.  But that isn't exactly my burden to carry.  It's something she has to initiate for herself.  I've offered the nanny route but she doesn't want anything to do with it.  Maybe it's something I could push for.  Or just say, how about we just try it for a month and see how it goes.    

This is just her rationalizing her emotions.  The point is not that she wants to do this or do that.  She just wants the options to do whatever she decides to do.  That's why there is no real fix for this that involves remaining married.

On a side note I think that in time she will find out that being single isn't what it's cracked up to be either.  You said that she said that she saw marriage as you two traveling the world?  I'm betting she has some similar unrealistic thoughts about the single life. 

I'm also betting she has divorced or single friends that are influencing her thoughts as well.  Like-minded people tend to find each other.  She'll get it out of her system and I bet she will regret things in the future especially if you move on and find someone else.

Edited May 8, 2022 by dramafreezone

[nice-easy-day]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not her call. The courts also decide what's in the children's best interest. The courts protect the children, not the warring parents. This includes their ages, each parent's situation/suitability, finances, etc.

It's a mess.  I've had the same job since we got married 10 years ago.  It graciously supports our family.  The problem is I'm on call often.  I don't see how I would be able to take the kids unless I literally hire a full time nanny the days I have to work.  Because of my job, I'll most likely not be able to do a joint custody.  At best I could take them on weekends.  I'm ok with that.  My wife would need to take them during the week.  Meaning she'll still have the same burden she does now, so what is she gaining?  I'm not sure how the courts would handle all that.  It would work best for me to take them full time so I can hire a full time nanny and not pay child support to my wife.  Or, I pay child support and my wife takes them full time.  I don't see any other option.  I'd be ok with either way really.  As I write this I begin to see how seriously life changing all this is and it's really scary. 

[nice-easy-day]

1 hour ago, glows said:

Divorce would be easier because she doesn't have to discuss her personal finances and ongoings with you in the long run. There's some resentment there in the way the finances are managed and that you're the provider but she may overall just be frustrated being married to you. 

If both of you decide on divorce, don't prolong the situation. 

I wish it were as simple as splitting the finances.  I have suggested in the past after all the household stuff is paid, the rest gets split to each of us in separate accounts and we can spend it however we want.  She didn't seem interested and really it doesn't solve anything.  It's not a money issue we are dealing with.  It's more of a personal, do whatever you want issue.

[glows]

1 minute ago, nice-easy-day said:

I wish it were as simple as splitting the finances.  I have suggested in the past after all the household stuff is paid, the rest gets split to each of us in separate accounts and we can spend it however we want.  She didn't seem interested and really it doesn't solve anything.  It's not a money issue we are dealing with.  It's more of a personal, do whatever you want issue.

I wasn't talking about splitting finances. She doesn't want to be married to you because she doesn't want to discuss her personal finances or be tied to you any longer in a marriage. It's absolutely a "do whatever you want" issue as she's trying to wipe her hands off of this marriage. She doesn't want to be controlled by it or by you anymore or depend on you. 

For your sake, do gain some legal advice about your situation and don't speculate about what she's going to do or what she feels. Find out from your lawyer what scenarios or options you have open to you and what you need to do. It may affect how you behave or the way you approach the marriage now as you're both still married.

[nice-easy-day]

43 minutes ago, glows said:

I wasn't talking about splitting finances. She doesn't want to be married to you because she doesn't want to discuss her personal finances or be tied to you any longer in a marriage. It's absolutely a "do whatever you want" issue as she's trying to wipe her hands off of this marriage. She doesn't want to be controlled by it or by you anymore or depend on you. 

For your sake, do gain some legal advice about your situation and don't speculate about what she's going to do or what she feels. Find out from your lawyer what scenarios or options you have open to you and what you need to do. It may affect how you behave or the way you approach the marriage now as you're both still married.

That is a hard pill to swallow but I think it's the best assessment of the situation.  It makes sense why she says "there isn't anything you can do",  because there really isn't.  She wants to be her own person without me, and there is only one solution to fix that.  So there is no way out of this one.

edit:  I think the best thing to do is go forward with the divorce and hope that she decides along the way she would rather be married than to be a single mom.  That is a choice she will have to make on her own.  At least it will be her choice and she'll be faced with making the decision herself.  She'll need to decide if the grass looks greener on the other side or not.  But its looking like she already made that decision.

   

Edited May 8, 2022 by nice-easy-day

[lonelyplanetmoon]

Female here.  
I think your marriage is over as you know it.  It does nor mean it cannot re-start as something else.  
Your wife seems to romanticize things.  First the marriage now she has it in her mind that single life is all that.

To save the relationship you should probably be doing the 180. File for divorce and separate your lives.  Have your own opinions and don’t give her everything she wants. Don’t be unkind but get a backbone.  She may have lost respect for you because you are too agreeable.

‘You may both be happier.  Actually, I know you both will be happier.  Life has its lessons for us.  We just have to listen.  The easier path is not always the best path.  The easiest path may not even be available to us.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

It's a mess. 

She's making a mess. However with a consultation with an attorney reviewing your income, assets, work, years marriage, especially her being a SAHM and children, you can get yourself better prepared. In fact, that she wants to relive a fantasized, idealized youth may work in your favor.

Make a few calls to attorney for a "free consult" when you find one that makes sense to you, at least you'll have a rapport established.

Keep in mind when someone says "divorce" sometimes people think it's a cry for help or change however realistically it's stating "I am suing you". You are better off being the plaintiff than the defendant in the divorce. That way she has to answer and you have a head start on things.

[nice-easy-day]

2 hours ago, lonelyplanetmoon said:

Female here.  
I think your marriage is over as you know it.  It does nor mean it cannot re-start as something else.  
Your wife seems to romanticize things.  First the marriage now she has it in her mind that single life is all that.

To save the relationship you should probably be doing the 180. File for divorce and separate your lives.  Have your own opinions and don’t give her everything she wants. Don’t be unkind but get a backbone.  She may have lost respect for you because you are too agreeable.

‘You may both be happier.  Actually, I know you both will be happier.  Life has its lessons for us.  We just have to listen.  The easier path is not always the best path.  The easiest path may not even be available to us.

I'm going to be dead honest.  While my family is very important to me and I would fight till the end, I haven't been all that happy either the last 2 years.  Remember my O.P. how I said my wife put me through hell.  She did.  There is a part of me that actually feels a relief from the idea of getting a divorce.  The idea of starting over in life makes me feel hopeful.  There is also a part of me that is terrified and lonely.  My emotions are going 100 different ways at once.

I think you are right that whatever happens, even if we stay together this marriage won't be the same again.  If somehow we come to an agreement to restructure it in some way (if that is even possible) ..... heck I don't even know what that means.  I'm just trying to give myself hope that there is a glimmer of hope in this and maybe we can come out the other side even stronger.  Maybe I shouldn't let my eternal optimism get in the way of rational thinking.  IDK, but thanks for your response.  Thank you to everyone who responded.