I think my marriage is over.

[stillafool]

2 minutes ago, ufo8mycat said:

You don’t lose custody of your kids become of a common and treatable mental illness. 
 

I didn't mean she loses custody just that she maybe should not be the parent the kids live with but have court appointed visitation like was suggested to OP.

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, stillafool said:

With this, is she really the right parent to have full time custody of the kids?  I don't think so.

She is a full time SAHM now so that makes no sense. No one can make her seek mental health help. CPS is not involved and the OP has not indicated she is an unfit mother.

Particularly since she is not suicidal and wants primary custody of the children. This is inconvenient to the OP as he is on call frequently and needs live-in childcare.

Hating being a housewife is not a mental illness, nor evidence of an affair. It's evidence of an unhappy marriage. Some things just are what they are.

The courts decide what's in the best interest of the children. This is not determined by either parent. 

 

[ufo8mycat]

10 minutes ago, stillafool said:

didn't mean she loses custody just that she maybe should not be the parent the kids live with but have court appointed visitation like was suggested to OP.

ah, thanks for the clarification, but I am not clear why the end of pendulum is the proposal. Is there any risk to safety of the kids? Why would court appointed visitation be the preferred option over shared custody? 

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, ufo8mycat said:

ah, thanks for the clarification, but I am not clear why the end of pendulum is the proposal. Is there any risk to safety of the kids? Why would court appointed visitation be the preferred option over shared custody? 

You're right, shared custody is good if it's peaceful and both agree no need to get court involved.

[stillafool]

24 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She is a full time SAHM now so that makes no sense. No one can make her seek mental health help. CPS is not involved and the OP has not indicated she is an unfit mother.

Particularly since she is not suicidal and wants primary custody of the children. This is inconvenient to the OP as he is on call frequently and needs live-in childcare.

Hating being a housewife is not a mental illness, nor evidence of an affair. It's evidence of an unhappy marriage. Some things just are what they are.

The courts decide what's in the best interest of the children. This is not determined by either parent. 

 

 

On 5/7/2022 at 4:54 PM, nice-easy-day said:

 This is what she told me.  1- She feels stuck in marriage and doesn't like the constraint of taking care of the kids.  She feels like she has no freedom to do what she wants because her schedule is with the kids. 2- She feels like she has to share decisions about the household with me instead of her just doing what she wants. 3- She wants to forward herself in a career instead of just being a mom so when she is done being a mom she can be something better. 4- Her dad is in poor health and her mom now has nothing to fall back on.  She doesn't want to end up like her mom.  I

    

Thit is why I suggested maybe he take the kids because above she's made it clear she wants her freedom.  To say depression is not a reason for the kids to be with their Dad is just not true.  I bet Rusty Gates would tell you different as well.  Plus OP had suggested getting a Nanny for her so he can afford help if he took the kids and let their mother have shared custody.

[DKT3]

3 hours ago, stillafool said:

 

Thit is why I suggested maybe he take the kids because above she's made it clear she wants her freedom.  To say depression is not a reason for the kids to be with their Dad is just not true.  I bet Rusty Gates would tell you different as well.  Plus OP had suggested getting a Nanny for her so he can afford help if he took the kids and let their mother have shared custody.

Rational thought go out the window on hot button topics.  If a woman is suffering from a mental illness and refuses help it clearly makes her not the best choice to be the primary caregiver of young children.  

I'm not well versed on suicide,  thankfully its something I've never had impact my life. Op wife does display classic signs of Infidelity.  If there is anywhere were it will be identified its on a site like this.

[nice-easy-day]

4 hours ago, stillafool said:

 

Thit is why I suggested maybe he take the kids because above she's made it clear she wants her freedom.  To say depression is not a reason for the kids to be with their Dad is just not true.  I bet Rusty Gates would tell you different as well.  Plus OP had suggested getting a Nanny for her so he can afford help if he took the kids and let their mother have shared custody.

Just to clarify to everyone.  She hasn't exhibited any shortcomings with being a mother.  I actually think she is a really loving mother.  I don't believe there would be anything in the courts to suggest she wasn't a good mom, even if she was diagnosed with depression or whatever.

If it would come down to it, my preference would be to take the kids full-time and she just goes on her way and has whatever visitation time suites her.  This would require me to hire a nanny but I'm fine with that.  I don't believe that is how it would all go down though.  I could see joint custody and equal time shared.  That would be a mess because we both would be working full time jobs.  So basically a nanny would end up taking care of our kids in the end...  The very things she is against would happen if there were to be a divorce.  Go figure.

As of now, she says she wants to stay together but needs me to back off and leave her alone about what she is going through and how she feels.  That's what I'm going to do.  This is going to take a little time.  We don't hate each other and both seem to want to keep the household together no matter what.  Perhaps down the road we could look into a separation or an open marriage or whatever suites our needs.  I know those things rarely work and doesn't really solve anything (other than she would have more perceived freedom) but whatever happens from here on out I see as being a process that is going to take time.  If things don't get better I hope we can get a separation first, set things in motion and take our time really thinking all this through.  Deep down I think we both want what is best for the kids.  If it wasn't for the kids I think she would have already left me, or I would have left her.  Or perhaps if it weren't for the fact we have kids she would be more happy and free and everything would be solid.  It's a catch 22.

Edit: the one good thing I have going for me is she has had a full time position for work for the last 10 years since we've been married.  She doesn't work full time now... but she has the option to work as much or as little as possible.  I know sometimes the courts will favor alimony towards the person who was the caretaker because of lost opportunity with employment and life advancement.  In our situation I think she'll have to go back to working full time.  If not, then I'll basically be paying two households and paying her as a nanny too.  No money would be left over.  Game over for me.  That would suck up 100% of my income.  

        

Edited May 24, 2022 by nice-easy-day

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

As of now, she says she wants to stay together but needs me to back off and leave her alone about what she is going through and how she feels.

She is very confusing or confused and both so I feel for you.  I think to do the above is your best solution for now and if you do it right she will regret what she wished for and will come around.  It's just that most men get frustrated with the lack of sex and go back on promises.  If you do in this case, it could mean the demise of your marriage.

[stillafool]

39 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

I'm not well versed on suicide,  thankfully its something I've never had impact my life.

Rusty Yates wife Andrea committed Filicide.

[DKT3]

20 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Rusty Yates wife Andrea committed Filicide.

Very sad story.  Kinda lost track of it, last I recall they were trying to blame the husband for leaving the kids with thier mother who displayed signs of mental illness and refused help. 

[ThorntonMelon]

Mind you, we are all guessing as to what is going on. When I read each of your posts in chronological order, the story she's telling in each seems to change a bit. 

She went from proactively telling you how unhappy she is and that she was putting it on you to make the decision to stay or leave (making you the bad cop, but incentivizing you to do it by saying it would never get better) to now telling you the issue is that you're trying to determine what decision to make by inquiring as to what might improve the situation, and because you're inquiring as to her needs, you're not giving her proper space.

Thats a pretty strong pivot in 17 days. I guess we can go with the "she's crazy" explanation but I don't love it. Feels somewhat forced to me, and I think when you re-read her explanation of 5/7 as to the original unhappiness, the explanation feels pretty weak. She's unhappy because she doesn't want to be your partner anymore and because the requirements of motherhood have stripped her of freedom. I don't want to be the prototype person here to say her eyes are wandering...but they are...maybe not at another person, but another life. And she's trying to make it easier on herself by saying that if you stand up for reasonable boundaries that you are cramping her space. 

Do whatever you feel is appropriate for your mental health and for your kids well-being, but you're dealing with an opponent now, not a partner. Maybe it ends OK, but she has set the wheels in motion to abuse the situation, and it would seem to me that you're going to screw yourself by playing along.

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, ThorntonMelon said:

Mind you, we are all guessing as to what is going on. When I read each of your posts in chronological order, the story she's telling in each seems to change a bit. 

She went from proactively telling you how unhappy she is and that she was putting it on you to make the decision to stay or leave (making you the bad cop, but incentivizing you to do it by saying it would never get better) to now telling you the issue is that you're trying to determine what decision to make by inquiring as to what might improve the situation, and because you're inquiring as to her needs, you're not giving her proper space.

Thats a pretty strong pivot in 17 days. I guess we can go with the "she's crazy" explanation but I don't love it. Feels somewhat forced to me, and I think when you re-read her explanation of 5/7 as to the original unhappiness, the explanation feels pretty weak. She's unhappy because she doesn't want to be your partner anymore and because the requirements of motherhood have stripped her of freedom. I don't want to be the prototype person here to say her eyes are wandering...but they are...maybe not at another person, but another life. And she's trying to make it easier on herself by saying that if you stand up for reasonable boundaries that you are cramping her space. 

Do whatever you feel is appropriate for your mental health and for your kids well-being, but you're dealing with an opponent now, not a partner. Maybe it ends OK, but she has set the wheels in motion to abuse the situation, and it would seem to me that you're going to screw yourself by playing along.

Its fairly obvious.  Usually when your partner runs hot and cold like this its because they are struggling between two different realities or people.  One relationship or reality greatly affects the other, thus the hot and cold behavior. 

Its not as much a pivot as it is the ebb and flow of deceitful behavior. 

[nice-easy-day]

1 hour ago, ThorntonMelon said:

She's unhappy because she doesn't want to be your partner anymore and because the requirements of motherhood have stripped her of freedom. I don't want to be the prototype person here to say her eyes are wandering...but they are...maybe not at another person, but another life. And she's trying to make it easier on herself by saying that if you stand up for reasonable boundaries that you are cramping her space.

Thanks for reading through everything and giving an honest assessment.  I agree it's all really strange.  What makes it most difficult for me is that although things seem to be getting better I'm not sure if it's from her heart or if she is just hiding it now and putting on a smile.  My gut tells me it's the latter.  My brain tells me to sit tight and don't freak out, that's it's just a temporary midlife crisis.

I do agree with your assessment.  That she is fantasizing about having a different life and dealing with a lot of what if's.  It's difficult to know what to do.  Honestly I don't know what to do and how respond to some of the things she says.  I have a good idea what NOT to do, but not what TO do.  I don't think it's out of the ordinary to fantasize about how things would be if life were different.  But whent it actually comes out, is acted upon, and discussed with your partner it's pretty damn serious stuff.  No doubt this is a big deal.  What sucks is even if we patch things up there is always going to be that keg of dry powder that only needs a spark to explode again.  That's what I'm worried about... how this could be a rolling problem for the rest of our marriage.

For now I want to sit tight and protect what I have but I'll never be the same.  I'm always going to be suspicious.  For my sanity sake I'm going to just figure if not now, then years down the road eventually my marriage will end.  I'll prepare for it.  I hate to be so pessimistic but I think it's almost inevitable at this point.  Now it's just a matter of doing it at the right time and the right way.  Or, maybe things will get better.  We'll get through this and come out the other end stronger than ever.  I wonder if there are any couples who have been through very difficult times and have come out the other side stronger, with more love?  Or is that just a fairy tale?

  

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by nice-easy-day

[stillafool]

I'm sorry and maybe this has been asked but have you and your wife tried marriage counseling?  Do you have access to your wife's phone and social media?  

[ThorntonMelon]

What concerns me the most about your responses, and I understand that you're in some shock, maybe a little denial, and that her crazy is probably making you a little crazy...

 

But she's treating you terribly. In a truly disqualifying way. A way you could consider unforgivable. She's making you go to bed at night questioning your security in your relationship and life. Don't underestimate that as just a life bump. She's crossed a line that only you can choose to allow. You're in control of that decision when you're ready to decide but you do not need to tolerate such behavior from anyone. 

[DKT3]

11 minutes ago, nice-easy-day said:

Thanks for reading through everything and giving an honest assessment.  I agree it's all really strange.  What makes it most difficult for me is that although things seem to be getting better I'm not sure if it's from her heart or if she is just hiding it now and putting on a smile.  My gut tells me it's the latter.  My brain tells me to sit tight and don't freak out, that's it's just a temporary midlife crisis.

I do agree with your assessment.  That she is fantasizing about having a different life and dealing with a lot of what if's.  It's difficult to know what to do.  Honestly I don't know what to do and how respond to some of the things she says.  I have a good idea what NOT to do, but not what TO do.  I don't think it's out of the ordinary to fantasize about how things would be if life were different.  But whent it actually comes out, is acted upon, and discussed with your partner it's pretty damn serious stuff.  No doubt this is a big deal.  What sucks is even if we patch things up there is always going to be that keg of dry powder that only needs a spark to explode again.  That's what I'm worried about... how this could be a rolling problem for the rest of our marriage.

For now I want to sit tight and protect what I have but I'll never be the same.  I'm always going to be suspicious.  For my sanity sake I'm going to just figure if not now, then years down the road eventually my marriage will end.  I'll prepare for it.  I hate to be so pessimistic but I think it's almost inevitable at this point.  Now it's just a matter of doing it at the right time and the right way.  Or, maybe things will get better.  We'll get through this and come out the other end stronger than ever.  I wonder if there are any couples who have been through very difficult times and have come out the other side stronger, with more love?  Or is that just a fairy tale?

  

 

Many of us here know how difficult this is. No matter what is driving her behavior,  its clear that you are being treated poorly as ThorntonMelon said. 

Having used many failed tactics one that I promise will be one you won't regret is look after your child and then yourself in that order. If you have anything left you can maybe spend some on your wife. Your and your marriage is not a priority for her right now, I'm guessing her biggest struggle is how can she go about it without you. Maybe its time you start really thinking about that yourself. 

[nice-easy-day]

29 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Its not as much a pivot as it is the ebb and flow of deceitful behavior. 

Always something to keep in mind.  But I don't think it's so much deceit as it is just being mentally unstable at the moment.  I'm not saying she's crazy but I've laid out how I believe she is suffering from some sort of depression, for whatever reason.  Or, there is always the possibility another guy is in the picture.  I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just that I don't have any reason to suspect it..... other than circumstantial behavior like you pointed out.

8 minutes ago, ThorntonMelon said:

But she's treating you terribly. In a truly disqualifying way. A way you could consider unforgivable. She's making you go to bed at night questioning your security in your relationship and life. Don't underestimate that as just a life bump. She's crossed a line that only you can choose to allow. You're in control of that decision when you're ready to decide but you do not need to tolerate such behavior from anyone. 

Yes, I get that.  Totally get it.  My weakness could bring on more disrespect from her.  Someone here in a previous post said I need to basically stand up for myself or she won't respect me and it will make it worse.  But it's difficult when she outright asks me to back off and let her sort things out.  Then, anytime I'm proactive about helping, she points out how she asked me to back off and I won't do it.  Even so, you're still right, I'm the one who has tolerated all this behavior and It's possible the chips fall in a way that isn't in my favor.  At this point I'm just trusting and respecting her decision to want a little space.  If I don't it will drive her further away.  Lose, lose situation I think.    

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I'm sorry and maybe this has been asked but have you and your wife tried marriage counseling?  Do you have access to your wife's phone and social media?  

I've suggested it a few times over the last year (and recently) and her answer is always no.  I also suggested she go to a therapist about a week ago and her answer was no.  The excuse was there is nothing a therapist can do for her and will only tell her "she has every right to feel the way she feels"  That is what she told me.   

[nice-easy-day]

14 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Having used many failed tactics one that I promise will be one you won't regret is look after your child and then yourself in that order. If you have anything left you can maybe spend some on your wife. Your and your marriage is not a priority for her right now, I'm guessing her biggest struggle is how can she go about it without you. Maybe its time you start really thinking about that yourself. 

You said it perfect.  That is actually what I'm trying to do.  Thanks so much!

[ThorntonMelon]

1 hour ago, nice-easy-day said:

Yes, I get that.  Totally get it.  My weakness could bring on more disrespect from her.  Someone here in a previous post said I need to basically stand up for myself or she won't respect me and it will make it worse.  But it's difficult when she outright asks me to back off and let her sort things out.  Then, anytime I'm proactive about helping, she points out how she asked me to back off and I won't do it.  Even so, you're still right, I'm the one who has tolerated all this behavior and It's possible the chips fall in a way that isn't in my favor.  At this point I'm just trusting and respecting her decision to want a little space.  If I don't it will drive her further away.  Lose, lose situation I think.    

I feel terrible beating this point into the ground, but being married to someone who treats you this way is worse than being divorced. I'm not saying you have to end it immediately but you're letting someone acting terribly control the agenda. 

I'll word it a different way- you aren't capable of driving her away. You have no influence on her behavior any more. Her wandering eyes are what is driving her away. You're a nuisance that she will make any excuse up at the moment to swat away because she doesn't care what you think. 

I'm sorry for being harsh but I say it because I'd want someone to say it to me in my shoes. A relationship with someone who values you so little is not worth being in. You have to at minimum tell her that if she doesn't believe your relationship is worth improving and she doesn't believe that she owes you at least to treat your needs and feelings with respect, that you're not interested in that relationship. You'll let her know what she needs to know when she needs to know it. 

You at least have to do that. You don't have to leave, you don't have to even leave the marital bedroom. But you do have to tell her you're not interested in the relationship that she's offering. 

 

[ufo8mycat]

8 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

I believe she is suffering from some sort of depression, for whatever reason

Depression doesn't need a reason or a cause, it can just exist for a whole lot of reasons - chemical and otherwise. 

8 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

The excuse was there is nothing a therapist can do for her and will only tell her "she has every right to feel the way she feels"  That is what she told me.

She sounds like she feels so hopeless at the moment and feels beyond help. She does have every right to feel the way she feels, but that doesn't mean that this feeling is permanent. Have you asked her how she feeling? When she started feeling this way? If she knows why she might feel these things (and she may not).

Good luck with your counselling - the best thing you can do is look after you kids and yourself. 

 

[stillafool]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:12 AM, vla1120 said:

She'd just go from a SAHM to being a single SAHM. She'd probably feel even more stuck, so I don't know what she's thinking.

She's probably thinking with her income from working and child support from OP, plus other assets, and shared custody, she'll be sitting pretty.  Child support doesn't go on forever.

[giotto]

On 5/25/2022 at 12:43 AM, nice-easy-day said:

Or, there is always the possibility another guy is in the picture.  I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just that I don't have any reason to suspect it.....    

Have you actually asked her? Because all of this sounds a bit fishy to me. I hope it's not true. Of course, she could be just depressed. But a mother with two small children just doesn't dump her high earning husband like that.

[nice-easy-day]

12 hours ago, giotto said:

Have you actually asked her? Because all of this sounds a bit fishy to me. I hope it's not true. Of course, she could be just depressed. But a mother with two small children just doesn't dump her high earning husband like that.

It would seem that way.  But as I said in my O.P. we went through some very hard times the last two years.  I left out what those hard times actually were.  It just isn't something I want to post about in an open forum on the internet so I left out some details.  If anyone wants to know what those details are you can personal message me and I will tell you.  It will make this whole story make a little more sense.  I wrote what I could.  I'm simply being as respectful to my wife and her personal privacy as I can be.  Yeah I'm still here talking about my personal life but I'm also keeping some boundaries.  Hope everyone understands.

  

[ExpatInItaly]

Has she dabbled in infidelity before? 

[giotto]

10 hours ago, nice-easy-day said:

It would seem that way.  But as I said in my O.P. we went through some very hard times the last two years.  I left out what those hard times actually were.  It just isn't something I want to post about in an open forum on the internet so I left out some details.  If anyone wants to know what those details are you can personal message me and I will tell you.  It will make this whole story make a little more sense.  I wrote what I could.  I'm simply being as respectful to my wife and her personal privacy as I can be.  Yeah I'm still here talking about my personal life but I'm also keeping some boundaries.  Hope everyone understands.

  

That's fine... the story does make a little more sense now... 🙂