Supporting a codependent friend

[Scotty Riggs]

It's a prime example of the expression, "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink." 

My friend's life is in total limbo. It's obvious to me what basic steps he needs to take, but I can't seem to motivate him. He's been laid off for over two years and won't even apply for a job. Only aggravating this is his wife, who no longer lives with him and is allegedly suffering addiction. She repeatedly snuck into his/their apartment and stole his possessions for quick money before he finally changed the lock after I repeatedly insisted. She's been arrested for other crimes. He acknowledges the need for a divorce, as does his mom, but he won't act. He once even made the illogical excuse that he shouldn't get a job because that would, in effect, support her.

He's a very sweet people-pleaser. He texts me hobby-related topics and music, and we sometimes talk for hours on the phone. I always try to be empathetic and nonjudgmental while gently steering him to logical conclusions by posing questions when he talks about his struggles. I've been more frequently asking him if he'd applied for a job he mentioned. He'd say no, and that he "forgot about it" (as if he's busy?). He expresses interest in dating but won't even commute 30 minutes for a date. Same for a job.

Other than his facial hair, there's virtually nothing I envy about him. I own a house, have a creative and fulfilling job, and recently began a joyful romantic relationship. To better relate to him, I've candidly discussed my dating insecurities, other mental health struggles, and rocky history of employment and relationship failures, and how I've worked hard for my current happiness. I want him to understand that we all struggle, but with enough persistence and patience, we can find meaningful careers and maybe even new love.

I want to ask him, "One year from now, where do you hope to be? What actions can you take now to attain that goal?" 

It pains me to say it, but I'm feeling annoyed and starting to lose respect for my friend. Maybe there's not much I can do.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Scotty Riggs

[glows]

You sound like a good friend but a little too much wanting out of him as a friend too. If you choose someone as a friend, accept them as they are. That's my motto. No changes needed. You both may be growing apart with growing dissimilarities. You can still appreciate him as a person and connect on your similarities but refrain from guiding/coaching. 

[Scotty Riggs]

24 minutes ago, glows said:

You both may be growing apart with growing dissimilarities. 

The dissimilarity is that his life is in shambles. And he admits that.

Also, I don't want anything out of him. He's struggling, and I want to help him.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Scotty Riggs

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Scotty Riggs said:

He's struggling, and I want to help him.

Unfortunately, he doesn't want help. If he did he would go to a therapist, clean up his life, etc.

Be a good friend and simply chat about things without trying to fix him or keep making oblique references on how he could do better.

No one wants to feel like a project or a broken mess.

[glows]

8 minutes ago, Scotty Riggs said:

The dissimilarity is that his life is in shambles. And he admits that.

Also, I don't want anything out of him. He's struggling, and I want to help him.

That last part there may be more about you, less about him. Why is it so important to you that he becomes more like you? I understand you want to see him do better (any person who cares would feel the same) but at times we have to accept someone else's choices and step back. It's not your choice to decide what life he should live.

[Scotty Riggs]

18 minutes ago, glows said:

I understand you want to see him do better (any person who cares would feel the same) but at times we have to accept someone else's choices and step back. It's not your choice to decide what life he should live.

Yeah, it's tough to accept. As I typed my initial post, I pretty much already knew that this thread's main purpose was for me to vent.

I get that I shouldn't try to be a savior, but at the same time, I don't know how to response when he talks about his problems that on a very rudimentary level seem pretty easy to resolve. So far, he seems psychologically incapable of navigating it and looking for excuses not to.

[Alpacalia]

It's a natural inclination to want to help. 

This board would be empty if that weren't the case.

Just be there to lend an ear/be supportive, with limits, not much more you can do.

Hope your friend feels better.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Alpacalia

[glows]

16 hours ago, Scotty Riggs said:

Yeah, it's tough to accept. As I typed my initial post, I pretty much already knew that this thread's main purpose was for me to vent.

I get that I shouldn't try to be a savior, but at the same time, I don't know how to response when he talks about his problems that on a very rudimentary level seem pretty easy to resolve. So far, he seems psychologically incapable of navigating it and looking for excuses not to.

Acknowledge what he says in terms of his problems, "Yeah, that sounds tough" and then change the subject. Eventually if he's not changing or improving his situation yet tending to complain a lot, you may want to start distancing yourself. You both have little in common.

[Scotty Riggs]

2 hours ago, glows said:

 You both have little in common.

That's quite a statement. Our lives are in different phases, but that's mostly temporary. We share many past times, viewpoints and interests. Should parents exclusively befriend parents? Would I need to be laid off, dumped and lose my house in order to have more in common with him? He's clearly codependent, which can't be helped, but does that mean he should only befriend people with that same psychological defect?

Edited May 20, 2022 by Scotty Riggs

[glows]

10 minutes ago, Scotty Riggs said:

That's quite a statement. Our lives are in different phases, but that's mostly temporary. We share many past times, viewpoints and interests. Should parents exclusively befriend parents? Would I need to be laid off, dumped and lose my house in order to have more in common with him? He's clearly codependent, which can't be helped, but does that mean he should only befriend people with that same psychological defect?

I think if you reread my posts I've suggested the opposite of everything you've written. That statement was also prefaced with an IF. I have said previously to focus on your similarities and resist the urge to coach/guide. I ask that you do not take my words out of context. Good luck. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Scotty Riggs said:

We share many past times, viewpoints and interests. 

Focus on this and you'll improve your friendship. Let him sort his life out his own way in his own time. Even if you cringe listening to and watching his self-destruction, there's not much you can do that will inspire him.

[ShyViolet]

You have a really unhealthy relationship with this person and you need to take a big step back.  It is not your place to solve this guy's problems for him, to "make" him be more responsible, to push him to make better choices.  You need to stop playing therapist here.  That's not what a healthy friendship is.  I'm sure you've already given him advice a thousand times, and he is the one choosing not to take that advice.  There's nothing you can do.  Stop trying to fix his life.  If it frustrates you to hear about the same problems over and over, then you need to stop being friends with this person and walk away.

[ExpatInItaly]

13 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

You have a really unhealthy relationship with this person and you need to take a big step back.

I was coming to say the same thing. 

You cannot and should not try to manage his life for him, OP. He's an adult. He can do so by himself, if he really wants to. Yes, you want to see him improve. But if he doesn't, do you feel you can't be his friend or something? 

You have more of a parent-child dynamic here than one of supportive friend. 

[balletomane]

On 5/20/2022 at 5:51 PM, Scotty Riggs said:

He's clearly codependent, which can't be helped, but does that mean he should only befriend people with that same psychological defect?

To be bluntly honest, what you're writing in this thread sounds pretty codependent too. You've strayed beyond friendship once you're so hell-bent on helping people that you get frustrated/lose respect for them when they don't behave as you think they should. Questions such as, "One year from now, where do you hope to be? What actions can you take now to attain that goal?" are appropriate from a careers coach but certainly not from a friend. You're setting yourself up in a helper role there and it's not your place to do that. Either tolerate him as he is now, or leave him be.

I had a friend who had a prestigious well-paid job as a clinical psychologist and who owned two houses, but who was always complaining that she didn't have enough money, that her job made her miserable, that the only thing she enjoyed was doing therapy and she should have just become a therapeutic social worker, etc. At first I tried to help her out by alerting her to suitable vacancies in the hospital where I work, but the response was always the same: she didn't like Job A because it was in an inpatient unit, she didn't like Job B because it was with pediatric patients, she wasn't going to apply for Job C because it involved having to assess new referrals for therapy as well as providing the therapy, and Job D was the same salary as her current role and she didn't want to move unless she got a pay rise. At this point I realised that nothing would suit her. She'd complain and feel ill-used in any situation. Eventually I drifted away from her because all the negativity got too much. So I get how frustrating it is to have a friend who is unhappy but seems to be doing nothing whatsoever to change their circumstances, but at the same time, it's important to remember that your annoyance is your own responsibility and not theirs.

[Acacia98]

30 minutes ago, balletomane said:

To be bluntly honest, what you're writing in this thread sounds pretty codependent too. 

OP, I honestly felt the same when I read your posts.

You need to take a huge step back from your friend's situation, and some introspection about your own thoughts and actions would be ideal.

[Scotty Riggs]

13 hours ago, balletomane said:

To be bluntly honest, what you're writing in this thread sounds pretty codependent too. You've strayed beyond friendship once you're so hell-bent on helping people that you get frustrated/lose respect for them when they don't behave as you think they should.

No offense, but you don't know nearly enough about the dynamics of the friendship to surmise that about me. He lives several miles away, we only see one other a few times a year, and I mostly let him reach out to me when he wants to chat rather than me reaching out to him. He is but one individual in my greater circle of friends, and although I had one frustrated day a couple weeks ago where I chose to vent on here, I have a pretty good life right now and almost never let his personal issues affect me. 

As you pointed out with your own circumstance, anyone would be frustrated when their friend continually complains about their problems but is unable to act on improving their situation. That's a normal response. You also pointed out that you, too, once tried giving your friend advice. So by simply offering advice and some form of emotional support, were you being codependent? Of course not.

Finally, if you'll read my later responses, I confessed that I already knew this was a largely fruitless endeavor to try to get advice on how to help him, and that I just chose one day to vent on here. So at that point, the topic was largely moot, and I accepted the circumstance as it is. So let's put it to bed.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Scotty Riggs said:

 anyone would be frustrated when their friend continually complains about their problems but is unable to act on improving their situation. 

Google "help rejecting complaining". This is when someone wants to vent and complain about everything but won't do anything about it and usually has objections to every suggestion.

All you can do is limit the pity party he's having and don't try to help.