Is Dad having no boundaries, or am I a glassbowl?

[BluEyeL]

Hello everyone! 

My dad has always been obsessed with me and especially my son's achievements. In fact, it wasn't always. When I was a kid, he barely knew what grade I was in and he showered some male cousin with praise instead. My grades were good, but just OK, and I wasn't a genius, didn't win math competitions or anything, so he didn't have anything to brag too much about. 

However, 23 years ago, when I was 27 I moved to the US (Im from Eastern Europe), got a Ph.D. from a pretty prestigious, albeit not Ivy league school, and went on to become an Engineering Professor at a even higher ranked University (top 10 Public University in Engineering). From the time I moved to the US his interest in my activities, as well as his bragging about me to everyone whom he knew (and they very likely didn't give a singe c.rap about me or even understood what he's bragging about exactly) increased exponentially. That sounds lovely right? At first it did. Except I gradually stopped enjoying my talks with him. They started to be all like activity reports. He monitors my google scholar profile (where my published papers and citations are public) and sends me an email every time my citation index increases by a point. He's faster than google notifications. He sends me emails such as "last year you published 10 articles, this year only 4 (sad emoticon). But I'm looking forward to your textbook being published!". Oh well, I dealt with that, although annoying, and also with him constantly forwarding everything "new" about my work to his high school friends, who are people I don't especially like or even respect. I started to tell him recently that I'm slowing down my career and he shouldn't expect much earth shattering from me any longer. He longingly talks about some of my colleagues with higher citations and more papers and I know he is dissapointed I'm not the best damn researcher in the world, or at least at my university!

20 years ago I had a son. 15 years ago, I got divorced and I raised him on my own. Dad would visit summers for a couple of months and enjoyed the time with the grandkid. He would drive him to activities and they formed a nice bond. After that, the phone calls with dad started to become slightly unpleasant. All conversation was about "did you son improve his stroke in swimming?" "tell him to keep his body straighter when he does that dive blah blah" "is his piano playing any good?"... Really, those activities were mostly for fun in the summer, I didn't try to raise an olympic diver, I just wanted him to jump in the water because he seemed to like doing that and I really didn't care how good his form was or wasn't... 

As my son grew up to be a teen, he did some pretty interesting extracurriculars (not sports) and stood out in other ways. He graudated high school early by one semester, drove across the country before he even turned 17 yo and had a job at an exciting nonprofit, who paid him a pretty good wage considering. It wasn't anything earth shattering, but many people were surprised that he got that much, which was basically enough to live on his own and save a little too, doing something he loved. He spent 1.5 years living alone across the country, and at the end of that time, he returned in our home state, to attend the University I'm a professor at, and where he is studying Computer Science. Well, my dad is obsessed with my son. He's stalking him on the internet like you wouldn't believe it. He sends him and me all kinds of links that are forwards from his friends I don't like and are basically politicall things that are the oppositive of my son's and my political orientation or ideas. I pretty much despise his friends and I'd rather dad would not listen to them, but that's his problem. I just wish he would not shove his friends' ideas down our throat. We mostly don't reply, or just reply to stuff we don't see as very reprehensible.

Well, now we are visiting in our home country. Besides many remarks that make me angry (you look ugly in pictures when you raise your chin (my son), you are fat and old (me), as well as some pretty annoying prejudice filled language he uses), which I tolerated with some difficulty, something seemed to be the last straw for me. My son, after one year of university, has a pretty cool internship in another state, which he found on his own, is great and is actually unusual for a freshman to find such an internship. Yes, my dad is beyond proud and sends the offer letter my son got (my mistake to forward, I bitterly  regret) to all of his friends in the US. 

 

Now, what made me super angry was this, and I'd like to know if I'm a glassbowl, or I'm right. He demands, not asks, that my son meets his high school friends, who live in San Jose (my son's internship is in San Francisco), while he's at his internship. My son has no interest in meeting these 75 yo folks he has nothing in common with. I politely asked my dad why does my son have to meet these folks and what's in it for him, and he angrily replied it's because his high school friend wants to meet my son, and this high school friend was nice to dad when dad waw 17 yo and showed him around the town he was in (he was at boarding school in a town, because he was from the country) and my son MUST meet them. I'm angry that while my dad says and probably does love us, we seem to be some kind of objects to him, to show off to his friends, and does not care about how we feel. He never asks us normal things. Only what is the latest smashing career success we had. This imposition to my son to travel to San Jose to see some old people seems to me wildly lacking boundaries and intrusive. 

tldr: my dad is very proud and bragging about my son. He pushes very hard for his grandkid (my son) to meet with his high school friends. I find it weird, innapropriate, lacking boundaries, and I want him to stop stepping into our lives with his boots. Am I a glassblowl not to want my son to do this (he doesn't want to do it) and say no, or is dad a sweet old man and it's normal for him to be that intrusive?

Edited May 20, 2022 by BluEyeL

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, BluEyeL said:

 He pushes very hard for his grandkid (my son) to meet with his high school friends. My son has no interest in meeting these 75 yo folks.

Your son is 20 so can decide for himself if he wants to visit with his grandfather and friends. Let your son tell his grandfather he's not interested.

Your father seems lonely. Is he widowed? Does he live alone?

All you can do is step back and not intervene this much. Whatever your battles with your father are should remain between you two and not carried forward.

Why not distance yourself a bit? For example you don't have to have the entire family posting on your social media.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Wiseman2

[BluEyeL]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Your son is 20 so can decide for himself if he wants to visit with his grandfather and friends. Let your son tell his grandfather he's not interested.

Your father seems lonely. Is he widowed? Does he live alone?

All you can do is step back and not intervene this much. Whatever your battles with your father are should remain between you two and not carried forward.

Why not distance yourself a bit? For example you don't have to have the entire family posting on your social media.

Thanks for your feedback! My son is supposed to meet just with my dad’s high school friends, not with my dad. My dad lives in Eastern Europe. He is recently widowed indeed, but his over the top and frankly weird obsession with me and my son carried on for years. He lives with my sister in Eastern Europe. My sister is also very successful but he’s not obsessed with her that way .
 

i do agree that I should just step back and I will. My son can say no if he wants to. I just don’t know why am I so irritated with my dad and his decades long monitoring. Ugh ! My son actually has his emails screened out, but dad doesn’t know and laments why doesn’t his grandson reply to his weird racist crap. 

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, BluEyeL said:

. He is recently widowed indeed,  He lives with my sister in Eastern Europe. 
 why doesn’t his grandson reply to his weird racist crap. 

Make sure you carefully control your social media content. Reset your privacy settings and do not allow anyone to post questionable material.

Your father is in Europe so don't worry about it. Your son can and will decide for himself that he doesn't want to hang around with all these senior citizens.

Try to relax because none of this will change except you can distance yourself more and let your son do whatever he sees fit.

At 75 your father is not going to change, so why make yourself crazy? Keep in mind that he may have cognitive impairment and that often manifests as poor judgement and inappropriateness.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Wiseman2

[BluEyeL]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Make sure you carefully control your social media content. Reset your privacy settings and do not allow anyone to post questionable material.

Your father is in Europe so don't worry about it. Your son can and will decide for himself that he doesn't want to hang around with all these senior citizens.

Try to relax because none of this will change except you can distance yourself more and let your son do whatever he sees fit.

At 75 your father is not going to change, so why make yourself crazy? Keep in mind that he may have cognitive impairment and that often manifests as poor judgement and inappropriateness.

You are a wise man ! 😊 Thank you !

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, BluEyeL said:

Ugh ! My son actually has his emails screened out, but dad doesn’t know and laments why doesn’t his grandson reply to his weird racist crap. 

Just tell your Dad not to send your son weird racist crap.  That's over the line but then again your son is an adult and can talk for himself.

[glows]

A lot of this stems from your own dysfunctional relationship with your father. I have mixed thoughts on this as on one hand it doesn't sound like you've done much to demonstrate what kind of relationship you would have wanted and seem quite passive. He sends you erroneous or offensive articles and I'm not sure whether you've said anything to him about it being inappropriate. On the other hand, you may have tried to establish those boundaries over the years but it falls on deaf ears. He simply doesn't know how to be a father, to put it bluntly. 

At 75 it's not clear whether he's got other cognitive issues or mental health issues or whether his age and loss of his partner/spouse is affecting him or if he has access to medical help, counselling or other resources. 

What matters is that you continue to reinforce positive communication and encourage your son to do well in life and take a genuine interest in your son's life. Basically, be what your father wasn't to you. The cycle of dysfunction ends with you. 

[BluEyeL]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

Just tell your Dad not to send your son weird racist crap.  That's over the line but then again your son is an adult and can talk for himself.

Thanks! Actually, my son already put up a screen in his email that screens my dad's emails so he doesn't have to be triggered by some of the content. I didn't tell him to do that. Thing is, my son is not upfront, just quietly blocked him and dad is wondering why isn't he getting any responses. I'm more upfront with dad, but dad isn't hearing me. 

[BluEyeL]

27 minutes ago, glows said:

A lot of this stems from your own dysfunctional relationship with your father. I have mixed thoughts on this as on one hand it doesn't sound like you've done much to demonstrate what kind of relationship you would have wanted and seem quite passive. He sends you erroneous or offensive articles and I'm not sure whether you've said anything to him about it being inappropriate. On the other hand, you may have tried to establish those boundaries over the years but it falls on deaf ears. He simply doesn't know how to be a father, to put it bluntly. 

At 75 it's not clear whether he's got other cognitive issues or mental health issues or whether his age and loss of his partner/spouse is affecting him or if he has access to medical help, counselling or other resources. 

What matters is that you continue to reinforce positive communication and encourage your son to do well in life and take a genuine interest in your son's life. Basically, be what your father wasn't to you. The cycle of dysfunction ends with you. 

Yes, you are 100% correct! I'm confused about whether I am a bad daughter by being so triggered and "mean" to him when I do tell him what he says is innapropriate, offensive, and sometimes even abusive.

My dad thinks it's OK to criticize or be offensive to me or to my son, because he should be allowed because we are his family and he wants what's best for us. I have a really long history of such behavior from dad, some of which I detailed in my original post.

Overall, I feel he does not love us, although he does or may think he does, or doesn't show me love the way I want. Instead, all he does is send endless bragging messages to his friends about me (and later on my son). I'm sure they are rolling their eyes. I feel it's like I am (and now my son is) an object that he's parading around and if I'm not "performing", then I have no value. If I'm not the greatest scientist, thinnest, best cook or whatever other perfection he demands, nothing else matters. He can't have a conversation with me and he hasn't had a conversation with me for many many years, even decades, where the topic wasn't my (or my son's) performance on various things. If he's not asking what else of note we've done, then it's some kind of negative comment, innapropriate joke, or embarassing story.

I started to speak up many many years ago. I was never obese, but I lost my "thin" body after I gave birth and never got my body back. I started to be either size 12 or 14 and stayed that way. When that happened he started to often comment on it offensively. One of the first conflicts was when he told me "you're as big as a house". I had multiple discussions with him and with my mom about not commenting on mine or my family's physical appearance. I told both him and mom that people look the way they look. My dad was way more offensive than mom in that area and he never stopped completely. Mom did stop.

Also, he continuously points people on the street and says they are fat, or short, or dressed weirdly and overall makes fun of their looks and it annoys me to no end (when we see each other, which is about once a year). I told him repeatedly not to make comments like that. He also makes antisemitic jokes. What enraged me yesterday was that he was telling me how one of his friends said she would like to find a way to make all jews dissapear and he wasn't phased by that at all. Now, my son is not "required" to meet with that specific person, but the other people he demands, not asks, my son to meet, are kind of similar, and I've met them before. I know that my son can decide whom to meet, but internally I flipped my lid thinking that he dares to push his weird friends down his grandson's throat. It would never cross my mind to ask my son, let alone my future grandchildren, to meet my high school friends. 

I did tell my dad to stop sending me (and my son) forwards from his friends. I told him very nicely that I love him but I am not interested in political stuff, I do not agree with those ideas and to please connect with us by telling us personal stories, about him and mom (mom actually died recently, so it's not that he's affected by mom's death, although that may prove to have a role from now on), about what he does at work (he still works part time mostly to keep himself occupied), or anything that is personal. I told him his emails do not get an answer because they are both impersonal and also have content we disagree with, so we have nothing to say. I pointed out that we never send him anything preachy about things we know he doesn't agree with. I told him we should just keep our own opinions and have a relationship based on our day to day lives. I also asked him to stop bragging about us so much to people because he is boring them and they are NOT interested, plus it is embarassing to us. I told him many many many many times what I think, kindly and I thought firmly. My mom was also telling him to leave us alone and back off.  He stops for a little while and acts like a victim, and then starts again in a couple of months. Now that mom died he seems to think we are free game. Like he is free to unleash his intrusiveness, million questions about my son's life (how much rent he pays, where is the apartment located, blah blah blah blah blah)...and please you MUST meet my idiot friends. 

I am just fed up and I just want him to leave us alone! At the same time, I feel guilty for feeling that way, which is why I posted. I don't know, am I an a**h*** for not putting up with him and constantly telling him things like "hey, you did it again!" "hey, don't say that!" "hey, no personal comments!" , and not answer his emails, because my mom died recently and it hurts a lot, but I feel he's out of control and then when he dies I'll feel bad for not being nice to him.

Sorry for the rant. I tend to ramble and rant when I get mad (online or to people who can stand it) :)) Maybe I should get therapy.

Edited May 20, 2022 by BluEyeL

[glows]

It's healthier to vent that way if you haven't had a chance to do that but avoid repeating the same patterns. I find journal entries help also if you're finding yourself trying to work through something, organize your thoughts, so that patterns and dynamics don't keep repeating themselves. I'd reconsider having conversations with him then as he doesn't seem up to the task of understanding you. 

You keep feeling guilty so explore more of that. Parent-child relationships are complex that way as there is a pre-existing bond and sense of obligation. Depending on how you were raised some feel more obligated to do what they feel is right rather than what's healthiest for their own mental/emotional health. You called yourself an a**h** and that's a negative perception of yourself and what you really feel. By invalidating the way you feel you will not make progress. Leave out the negative self-talk and address issues plainly, neutrally without the self-putdowns. Try to remove the emotion from it even though you're very hurt and think through step by step on what changes you'd wish to see in your own communications with your father. You can't change him so start changing the way you communicate with him or the way he's involved in your life. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by glows

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, BluEyeL said:

 I just don’t know why am I so irritated with my dad and his decades long monitoring. Ugh ! My son actually has his emails screened out, but dad doesn’t know and laments why doesn’t his grandson reply to his weird racist crap. 

It's pretty clear why - he's obsessively intruding on the life you built for yourself, probably mostly in an effort to aggrandize his own ego, and bringing "values" you don't agree with along for the ride. Quite understandable.

Agree with the advice to distance yourself from him + to let your son make his own decisions and do/not do as he sees fit WRT meeting these folks.

Edited May 20, 2022 by mark clemson

[Lotsgoingon]

Ridiculous. I mean only pursue this if there is some amazing pragmatic reason--as in your dad is sitting on $100 million and you and your son stand to get some of that if you and you both play nice. 

Otherwise, his request is ridiculous. I do sense some cultural stuff here. Do parents play a different role in your home country than they play here in the U.S.? My parents were very traditional in many ways. They wouldn't think of asking me to go meet relatives of theirs unless they thought I independently (for reasons of my own) wanted to do so. My parents were very proud of the achievements of me and my siblings, but they felt that privately (we could see it) and they would talk about us with friends when the subject of kids came up. But they wouldn't post anything online or anything like that. 

To step back, I'm going to challenge you on using the word "proud" to describe your father's feelings. I do not think your dad is proud and all of that. Not in the good sense of that word. I think you are giving him perhaps--maybe!--too much credit. Your dad is treating you and your son like his own resume--literally. People genuinely proud of us do not need to talk to others about it. They do not need to brag to others. The key point is for the person to communicate how proud they are to us. 

I'll go further: being proud is not the same as loving attention. Sounds like your dad did give some loving attention to your son at one point. Bragging (in the way your dad does) about the external achievements of a son or grandson isn't inherently good. Having a genuine relationship with the son or grandson is FAR more important, if you ask me. There is something of objectification going on it seems to me. You and your son's achievements are objects. Your degrees are like expensive rings or jewelry pieces designed to impress others.  You're not people with feelings and personalities and real interests and room for struggle and to be real human beings. 

To go further still, seems to me (absent loving engagement and real attention) he's just using your achievements and your son's achievements to raise his own status among his friends and community. It's all about him--not about you. Hence, the request for your son to go meet HIS friends. Apparently that's what's most important to your father--that your son impress HIS friends, so he (your dad) feels important. 

Now, lots of men around the world were raised to keep emotional distance. I'm not saying your dad is a bad person. And lots of people are immersed in cultures where your value comes from the achievements of your offspring. So I don't want to be too hard on your father. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Lotsgoingon

[ShyViolet]

This only goes on for as long as you and your son allow it.  Distance yourself from him.  Your son most definitely does not HAVE to go meet your Dad and his high school friends, and he should not go.  It sounds like both you and your son might need to block your Dad, at least for a while, for your own mental health.  I also have a Dad who has a history of being emotionally abusive and crazy, and I have greatly distanced myself from him.  I have gone as far as to block him for periods of time.  I refuse to let anyone destroy my own happiness and mental health.  I don't care if they are a stranger, or my own parent.  No one has the right to stalk you and drive you crazy like that.  Don't allow it.

[BluEyeL]

15 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

 

Otherwise, his request is ridiculous. I do sense some cultural stuff here. Do parents play a different role in your home country than they play here in the U.S.? My parents were very traditional in many ways. They wouldn't think of asking me to go meet relatives of theirs unless they thought I independently (for reasons of my own) wanted to do so. My parents were very proud of the achievements of me and my siblings, but they felt that privately (we could see it) and they would talk about us with friends when the subject of kids came up. But they wouldn't post anything online or anything like that. 

To step back, I'm going to challenge you on using the word "proud" to describe your father's feelings. I do not think your dad is proud and all of that. Not in the good sense of that word. I think you are giving him perhaps--maybe!--too much credit. Your dad is treating you and your son like his own resume--literally. People genuinely proud of us do not need to talk to others about it. They do not need to brag to others. The key point is for the person to communicate how proud they are to us. 

I'll go further: being proud is not the same as loving attention. Sounds like your dad did give some loving attention to your son at one point. Bragging (in the way your dad does) about the external achievements of a son or grandson isn't inherently good. Having a genuine relationship with the son or grandson is FAR more important, if you ask me. There is something of objectification going on it seems to me. You and your son's achievements are objects. Your degrees are like expensive rings or jewelry pieces designed to impress others.  You're not people with feelings and personalities and real interests and room for struggle and to be real human beings. 

To go further still, seems to me (absent loving engagement and real attention) he's just using your achievements and your son's achievements to raise his own status among his friends and community. It's all about him--not about you. Hence, the request for your son to go meet HIS friends. Apparently that's what's most important to your father--that your son impress HIS friends, so he (your dad) feels important. 

 

That's exactly how I feel. Thank you for seeing things in a way that lets me know that I'm not crazy. There is some cultural stuff going on, where you are supposed to play nice always, put up with all kinds of things, not for 100 million, or even for $1 but because your parents raised you and sacrificed. If you live abroad and your parents visit, you get to pay for 100% of everything too, including trips, so no, money doesn't flow that way. :)) 

[BluEyeL]

12 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

This only goes on for as long as you and your son allow it.  Distance yourself from him.  Your son most definitely does not HAVE to go meet your Dad and his high school friends, and he should not go.  

Thank you. At least if my son had to meet dad and his friends, it would be just my son and dad's friends who live in the US. So my son and some strangers. The reason would be indeed for my dad's ego to be massaged upon my son performing for his buddies. IMHO, I do not like that dad is exposing my son to scrutiny and potential gossip. 

[glows]

3 hours ago, BluEyeL said:

That's exactly how I feel. Thank you for seeing things in a way that lets me know that I'm not crazy. There is some cultural stuff going on, where you are supposed to play nice always, put up with all kinds of things, not for 100 million, or even for $1 but because your parents raised you and sacrificed. If you live abroad and your parents visit, you get to pay for 100% of everything too, including trips, so no, money doesn't flow that way. :)) 

The proverbial guilt trip? Nah, that gets old. All you can do is keep your distance, maintain your autonomy and independence and encourage your son to grow strong, healthy and with all the values that matter to you as his parent. 

[Els]

Any chance you have a long lost sister? Because that sounds exactly like my parents.

I would let son decide for himself and speak to his grandfather about his decision. Let him know that you'll support him regardless of what he decides, and he doesn't have to meet the friends if he doesn't want to. Dad will get over it.

[salparadise]

You are not wrong. In fact, every word is reasonable and healthy. I can relate to a lot of this because my dad was rather unevolved and primarily existed within his own ego. He wanted his children to give him bragging rights, like your dad. He said some pretty hateful stuff too, without realizing how hurtful it actually was to a child who longed for his father's approval. We were on the outs for many years, but then reconciled as I matured and he faced his own mortality.

It sounds like you just avoided conflict or being the least bit assertive for years, and eventually said what needed to be said, albeit mostly falling on deaf ears. Here is my take on it-  accept that your dad is who he is and that you're not going to be able to change him. Tell him that you love him, but that you are now setting boundaries because it's necessary. State exactly what those boundaries are, for example, no racist talk, no involving third-parties in your or your son's correspondence, the focus is to be on each other's wellbeing not bragging rights, no harsh criticism, and no assumptions about your politics and values being fair game. Explain that you (and your son) are very different people, autonomous and self-directed. And within that framework try to be as kind and loving as possible. Try to focus your communications on feelings and wellbeing. 

Bottom line is that acceptance is key, and understanding that you don't have a choice about some things, but you do about others. You can't make him be who you wish any more than he can you and your son. You can set boundaries, and you can love him despite feeling (and rightfully so) that his behavior is sometimes inappropriate. If you can be lovingly assertive perhaps he will figure out that you and your son are not to be though of as an extension of will, desires, or values. I wish you the best.

 

[introverted1]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:14 AM, BluEyeL said:

Overall, I feel he does not love us, although he does or may think he does, or doesn't show me love the way I want. Instead, all he does is send endless bragging messages to his friends about me (and later on my son).

I had this same dynamic with my dad.  In my case, it was because my dad did not know how to form an emotional connection with me, due to lots of dysfunction in his own upbringing and life.  That's not to excuse what your dad is doing, but just to say that it's possible he doesn't know how to show you love in the way you want to receive it. And it sounds as though you have just gritted your teeth and gone along with what your dad does.

I think the time has come for you to have a heart-to-heart with your dad and let him know what you need as well as what your boundaries are (eg, no racist comments).  To some extent, this may be moot:  at 75, your dad's behaviors are pretty well ingrained and if your mom's passing and his possible cognitive decline are affecting his actions, it will be very difficult to change things.

On 5/20/2022 at 10:54 AM, BluEyeL said:

Thing is, my son is not upfront, just quietly blocked him and dad is wondering why isn't he getting any responses.

This is pretty terrible.  Not only is it hurtful to your dad, but it forces you to be in the middle of the relationship between your son and your father, which is unfair to you, given that your son is an adult. In addition, this is an unhealthy response by your son, particularly as it will affect other relationships he will form. If nothing else, your son should also explain to your dad why he is being blocked and what actions he can take to be unblocked, and make it clear that his actions and decisions are his own.

I hope you can work this out.

[TooLegitToQuit]

@BluEyeL I am all for family and good relationships with family, but if the relationships don't come with good boundaries then why bother. Your son has every right in the world to decide that he does not want to meet your Dad's friends.

Why would your son drive all the way out there to meet these people? He doesn't even know them!

It is too bad that your son blocked your Dad. I really don't know what to tell you in that regard. Some will say that your son is an adult and should have handled it better, but my take is that he is only 21. Your Dad is the senior partner in the relationship, and it is on him especially to respect boundaries. And he is not, at all. This may all be a teachable moment for your son on practicing kind assertiveness but this sounds like a tough situation to handle at 21. It may be on you to explain to your Dad how his emails and his pressuring your son are making him feel. And then it may be on you to coach your son on expressing his boundaries to your Dad. I'm sorry to have to say, it is indeed a lot on your plate.

Edited May 23, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[TooLegitToQuit]

I am operating under the belief that the ultimate goal is restorative in regards to your Dad's relationship with you and your son, by the way. I simply could not imagine EVER suggesting to anyone **over the internet** to cut off contact with their parents.

[BluEyeL]

Thanks everyone! TLTQ, son is 20.   I’ll be working with him and dad to see how we can make the situation tenable. I did tell my dad that “we” don’t reply to his emails because they are  : impersonal (forwarded links and rants), from people we don’t like, express ideas he knows we don’t agree with, and we simply have nothing good to say and the polite way is not to say anything when you have nothing good to say. I know he’ll stop and start and stop and start. I could also start being passive aggressive and forward him links expressing stuff I know he disagrees with :)))
 

My son could be more assertive, but he’s learning. It took me a long time to become assertive. Some young people don’t have the confidence yet.

[TooLegitToQuit]

@BluEyeL what also needs to be emphasized in that this is your son's GRANDFATHER. It is one thing standing up to a *peer*, it is another standing up to an ELDER. The latter is a couple degrees of difficulty harder. Especially so if he was taught his entire life to respect his elders.

I really feel for your son because by the way things were framed, he was put in a very tough situation. He was forced between either a) driving out all that way to meet people he had no interest in meeting and why should he even have any interest in meeting anyway, or b) saying no to your grandfather. If he chooses a) well, he certainly isn't being fair to himself, and if he says b) would he feel guilty, as if he is being disrespectful to his elder i.e., his grandfather? He was put in a no-win situation that was quite tricky to handle, and it sounds that it could get intense. So no wonder he blocked your grandfather's emails.

So yeah, I hate to say this, but you WILL be in the middle of this. Both in telling your Dad he needs to lay off your son, and in coaching your son through this, in how to be assertive and respectful at the same time.

Edited May 25, 2022 by TooLegitToQuit

[glows]

On 5/24/2022 at 3:26 AM, BluEyeL said:

Thanks everyone! TLTQ, son is 20.   I’ll be working with him and dad to see how we can make the situation tenable. I did tell my dad that “we” don’t reply to his emails because they are  : impersonal (forwarded links and rants), from people we don’t like, express ideas he knows we don’t agree with, and we simply have nothing good to say and the polite way is not to say anything when you have nothing good to say. I know he’ll stop and start and stop and start. I could also start being passive aggressive and forward him links expressing stuff I know he disagrees with :)))
 

My son could be more assertive, but he’s learning. It took me a long time to become assertive. Some young people don’t have the confidence yet.

The key issue is your father feels entitled to using emails in this way and you asserting yourself only causes more of a clash and disagreement. 

It could possibly be his only outlet. This is not to excuse what he’s doing in the least either. 

I wouldn’t choose passive aggressive responses as they take more effort and would drain me. Life is too precious as it is. Regardless, I just wanted to say how much I emphasize with you. 

[chillii]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:32 PM, BluEyeL said:

My son can say no if he wants to. I just don’t know why am I so irritated with my dad and his decades long monitoring.

Your son might be 20 , but so what , 20 is still very young and there's the subconscious emotional and obligational side of things it being his grand father. And has he had a relationship with his own father growing up? People talk all so practical and hard arsed in forums but reality's never that simple or cut and dry. Look at yourself, nearly 3 x your sons age and your still going through it and saying you don't know why it irritates you so much. Well, it's been doing that for decades and he's your dad, that's 10x easier for you butttt, it def' hasn't been that easy for you either then has it.

Why haven't you told your dad 20yrs ago to stop with all this shyt he might be older and widowed now , going downhill a bit but it's been going on decades not just the last few yrs. 70s, my dad passed 85 and he was still open and changing in the way he treated us especially 70s. We'd still complain about something, hell yeah. Matter of fact it's a real period for you to make peace with him before it's too late. Tell him what's important to you and that you don't care about all that crap, gently get it out and of your chest, well, if you'd like to anyway. My relationship with my dad totally turned around in he's 70s because of sorting things out and l'll always be so glad l did.l mean we were sorting things trying to my whole life but him in his 70s was a real turning point. l have a v large family and we all had things but the last 10 yrs with my dad were the best and most real of my life.

l mean you might prefer to just go on ignoring it forever, or maybe having a real relationship with you dad before it's too late, is important to you now.

Edited May 27, 2022 by chillii