What should I do as a feminine and less attractive guy?

[bradlyboy]

Hello All,

Of course this sounds like I'm incredibly insecure. However, I am telling the truth. I am very emotional, sensitive and effeminate, but I'm not a pretty boy. I cry very often. And my hands and feet are usually smaller than the average woman. I'm also short. I've more or less come to accept this and I try hard to love myself and appreciate my body. As a person, I definitely have my strengths, but, as a man, I can't conform to traditional gender norms. 
I have never experienced a romantic love; whereas most women my age have had 3-4 partners. I know that women care about how experienced a man is as well. Even though I want to please a woman just as well as any guy she's ever dated, my lack of experience means I wouldn't be able to (in various ways). Well, at least not right away. 
I know that women don't find me attractive and think that I am inferior as a man since I can't conform to their standards. I just make other men look better. 
Even though I want to be a better man, it's hard knowing that it's impossible for me to achieve what a woman considers to be a man. I'm not looking to be comforted, but I would like a coping strategy or perhaps some advice. I'd like to be less jealous of prettier, more masculine men. And I'd like to believe that a special romance is waiting for me out there. But it's hard when women seem to only want one kind of guy and tell you as much. 
It also isn't fair to me that other men get to have more relationships with women because they are (more often at least) within a woman's strike zone.
I'd like you all to assume that my assessment of myself is realistic. Even though I'm sure plenty of insecure guys come here looking for compliments, I'd rather hear what guys have to say about my situation as I've assessed it. And if you are a more feminine and unattractive man, what do you do about it? 

[basil67]

I know a number of smaller men who've had girlfriends and been married, so it's not your size per se.  Certainly it would reduce your options, but I would say the following to either a woman or a man: While being in touch with emotions is a good thing, when those emotions get out of control too often then there's a problem.  And those problems could well be a major contributing factor to you not finding a partner.

I advise you speak to your primary care doctor about your state of mind.  I worry that you could be suffering from a mental health issue and the solution may be both medical and involving therapy.

Edited May 23, 2022 by basil67

[glows]

18 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

I'm not looking to be comforted, but I would like a coping strategy or perhaps some advice. I'd like to be less jealous of prettier, more masculine men. And I'd like to believe that a special romance is waiting for me out there. 

Low confidence, anxiety, feeling insecure or feelings of inadequacy will affect the way you interact with others. And in turn, affect the way others perceive you.

I second the suggestion seeing your doctor or addressing any underlying issues, mood disorders and describe your anxiety when it comes to romance or looking for a partner. You may be self-sabotaging with thoughts that are counterproductive overall. That should be your first approach. 

Second, compare yourself less to others. If you know you have a habit of doing this, change those thought patterns. 

[bradlyboy]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I know a number of smaller men who've had girlfriends and been married, so it's not your size per se.  Certainly it would reduce your options, but I would say the following to either a woman or a man: While being in touch with emotions is a good thing, when those emotions get out of control too often then there's a problem.  And those problems could well be a major contributing factor to you not finding a partner.

I advise you speak to your primary care doctor about your state of mind.  I worry that you could be suffering from a mental health issue and the solution may be both medical and involving therapy.

I didn't mean to concern you. While it's true that I cry a lot, it's mostly from reading, or tv shows. Not really because I'm wrapt by despair. I have had therapy, and in general am doing fine. 

[bradlyboy]

7 minutes ago, glows said:

Low confidence, anxiety, feeling insecure or feelings of inadequacy will affect the way you interact with others. And in turn, affect the way others perceive you.

I second the suggestion seeing your doctor or addressing any underlying issues, mood disorders and describe your anxiety when it comes to romance or looking for a partner. You may be self-sabotaging with thoughts that are counterproductive overall. That should be your first approach. 

Second, compare yourself less to others. If you know you have a habit of doing this, change those thought patterns. 

I definitely should be comparing myself less to others. However, it's certainly true that more attractive people and masculine people receive more welcome attention from women. Beauty affects how we treat people. I'm not looking for a self-esteem boost I guess. I believe in myself, and I know that I'm valuable. But beauty, masculinity and etc. are hierarchical. People do in fact compare you against others, and your social standing is dependent on these factors (among other things like confidence, rhetoric, charisma and etc.). I'd like to know what to do for such a circumstance, and it seems unfair to me to pretend that these things aren't real. Regardless of whether or not I stop giving a damn what other people think about me (which I definitely agree that I should do), it doesn't change the fact that my physical features and personality still have a negative affect on my standing among women. 

Also, what do you mean by "describe your anxiety when it comes to romance or looking for a partner?" Are you saying I should openly tell women that I'm more feminine? Or try to address my personality in a more direct way?

[glows]

7 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

I definitely should be comparing myself less to others. However, it's certainly true that more attractive people and masculine people receive more welcome attention from women. Beauty affects how we treat people. I'm not looking for a self-esteem boost I guess. I believe in myself, and I know that I'm valuable. But beauty, masculinity and etc. are hierarchical. People do in fact compare you against others, and your social standing is dependent on these factors (among other things like confidence, rhetoric, charisma and etc.). I'd like to know what to do for such a circumstance, and it seems unfair to me to pretend that these things aren't real. Regardless of whether or not I stop giving a damn what other people think about me (which I definitely agree that I should do), it doesn't change the fact that my physical features and personality still have a negative affect on my standing among women. 

Also, what do you mean by "describe your anxiety when it comes to romance or looking for a partner?" Are you saying I should openly tell women that I'm more feminine? Or try to address my personality in a more direct way?

Describe your anxiety and moods in general to your doctor, NOT to other women.

Most of us do have something or other that we’re not happy about whether it comes to our bodies or what we wish to improve. You have to find constructive ways of improving yourself instead of destructive. Destructive means trying to wish yourself into something or someone you’re not.

Try for more realistic goals and accomplishments and avoid placing all your self-esteem into your looks. Be a little more than skin deep. Self-esteem comes from within and that’s not always easy if a person is dealing with severe anxiety or mental health issues. Continuing as you are doesn’t seem feasible to me. It’s too destructive in thought. Focus more on what you can improve and place more weight on worthy endeavours and goals that mean something to you in the bigger scheme. If it means running marathons, run marathons. Wanting to learn how to swim? Go for swimming lessons. Looking to take up a new subject? Take a course. 

Be careful about too much emphasis on looks as potential partners pick up on that and may realize there’s too much focus on it, not enough focus on other areas.

Edited May 23, 2022 by glows

[bradlyboy]

6 minutes ago, glows said:

Describe your anxiety and moods in general to your doctor, NOT to other women.

Most of us do have something or other that we’re not happy about whether it comes to our bodies or what we wish to improve. You have to find constructive ways of improving yourself instead of destructive. Destructive means trying to wish yourself into something or someone you’re not.

Try for more realistic goals and accomplishments and avoid placing all your self-esteem into your looks. Be a little more than skin deep. Self-esteem comes from within and that’s not always easy if a person is dealing with severe anxiety or mental health issues. Continuing as you are doesn’t seem feasible to me. It’s too destructive in thought. Focus more on what you can improve and place more weight on worthy endeavours and goals that mean something to you in the bigger scheme. If it means running marathons, run marathons. Wanting to learn how to swim? Go for swimming lessons. Looking to take up a new subject? Take a course. 

Be careful about too much emphasis on looks as potential partners pick up on that and may realize there’s too much focus on it, not enough focus on other areas.

So, as far as you're concerned, I should just drop it? I want women to find me attractive, and they don't. I can improve on things like fashion, grooming, style, and etc, so basically just focus on that? 

Well, I guess you're probably right. There's a limit to what I can change as a person. Still, I do want to be beautiful, but I guess if I'm not then I'm just not and well I should get over it. I'm definitely too concerned with looks as you say. Of course, I have many ambitions as a person (learning, reading, exercise etc.). 

It still seems unfair to me that other people get to be beautiful. It's a great power in this world. 

Is it really so wrong to want to be someone different? I don't essentially mind that I have small hands or that I'm short. But when women point it out to you, it's clear that they care. All these things about myself have done nothing but cause trouble for me. Do I really have a right to have an unwavering belief in myself even when other people let me know that I'm less valuable to them? 

[Weezy1973]

3 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

It still seems unfair to me that other people get to be beautiful. It's a great power in this world. 

 

There are things you can control, and things you can't. Like your genetics. Spending any emotional energy on things you can't control is really just a waste. Take that energy on focus on things you can control.

 

5 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

Is it really so wrong to want to be someone different?

Not "wrong". But it's not something you can control. You are who you are. Focus your energy on things within your control.

 

6 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

But when women point it out to you, it's clear that they care. All these things about myself have done nothing but cause trouble for me.

I suspect they haven't caused any trouble for you whatsoever. It's just your own thoughts that are troubling you. Nothing more.

 

7 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

Do I really have a right to have an unwavering belief in myself even when other people let me know that I'm less valuable to them? 

People value all sorts of different things for all sorts of different reasons. The women that want a traditionally masculine man aren't going to be interested in you and you won't be dating them anyways so no reason to invest any emotional energy in those women. Focus on the people that do value you.

[salparadise]

Acceptance is something you need to work toward. If you learn to love yourself just for who you are it will make you more lovable to others, including women who may be interested. Granted, you may not have what the ultra-hotties are looking for (only a few percent do), but there is certainly someone out there who will appreciate your uniqueness, sincerity, and willingness to be vulnerable (as evidenced by posting here). You may find magic with another outlier, your female counterpart... someone who is beautiful to you, and you to her, based on acceptance and appreciation of the less superficial aspects of attraction. You probably need to work on your irrational, limiting beliefs and dispel some of the negativity that it seem that you've integrated. You need to believe it's possible (it certainly is), have hope and aspirations, be proactive when you can... while at the same time keeping expectations realistic, being more focused on living well and being your best self rather than being preoccupied with outcomes. Everybody struggles (well, almost everybody) in the dating-mating game, and obviously some have it a lot easier than others (this we all have to accept). Being social and having positive interactions with people generally cannot be underestimated, so I'd make that a top priority. All the best!

Edited May 24, 2022 by salparadise

[bradlyboy]

9 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I suspect they haven't caused any trouble for you whatsoever. It's just your own thoughts that are troubling you. Nothing more.

Maybe it's not your experience, but it's certainly the case for me that women will point out where they find you to be inadequate. Even ones that openly have no interest. 

I do appreciate your comment overall, and I think you're right that I shouldn't put so much energy into something I can't control. 

[Weezy1973]

7 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

Maybe it's not your experience, but it's certainly the case for me that women will point out where they find you to be inadequate. Even ones that openly have no interest.

A woman pointing out why she's not attracted to you is not pointing out inadequacies. If you're attracted to blondes, it's not because brunettes are inadequate. You're just attracted to blondes. The "inadequate" label is something you're putting on yourself.

[healing light]

Okay, hopefully this isn't offensive to anyone, but when I see posts like this, I want to recommend that OP check out couples like Hannah Aylward and Shane Burcaw. Here you have a man who literally depends on her for his life and by all intents and purposes she adores him. If you've watched his videos, he doesn't sit back lamenting about his obvious challenges and his perceived masculinity--he's smart and funny which gives him a charm all on its own.

I like softer men and I know I'm not alone. I am not much of a height snob, either. What really gets me, though, is a good sense of humor, intelligence, emotional depth, and kindness. So just because you perceive yourself as effeminate doesn't mean that you can't be what another person desires--it's how you interpret and wield that perception as "lesser than." The real problem here is your insecurities, not what you have to offer.

Now if there is an underlying mood disorder, yes, you'll want to get that addressed. But being affected by emotional scenes in movies and tv shows sounds like it's only as big of a problem as you make it.

[bradlyboy]

9 minutes ago, salparadise said:

 based on acceptance and appreciation of the less superficial aspects of attraction. 

 I can't date someone I'm not physically attracted to. I can appreciate the less superficial aspects of a woman, and I am a lot less superficial than most men when it comes to women (a woman doesn't need to be hollywood beautiful to be beautiful to me), but I can't help what I'm attracted to. 

18 minutes ago, salparadise said:

You need to believe it's possible (it certainly is), have hope and aspirations, be proactive when you can... while at the same time keeping expectations realistic, being more focused on living well and being your best self rather than being preoccupied with outcomes.

Yeah I am definitely too focused on outcomes. Even when I do, say, a sport I'm just thinking about winning and losing and nothing else. 

 

19 minutes ago, salparadise said:

Being social and having positive interactions with people generally cannot be underestimated, so I'd make that a top priority. All the best!

Alright thank you. I appreciate your comment. And I should definitely try to have positive experiences with people. 

[bradlyboy]

9 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

A woman pointing out why she's not attracted to you is not pointing out inadequacies. If you're attracted to blondes, it's not because brunettes are inadequate. You're just attracted to blondes. The "inadequate" label is something you're putting on yourself.

In other words, I'm thinking about this too quantitatively. I shouldn't see my qualities as being on a scale, but rather just my individual differences. Qualities first and foremost. But nevertheless it's true that people are judging you all the time. Everyone does it. If not consciously then unconsciously. 

[bradlyboy]

12 minutes ago, healing light said:

Okay, hopefully this isn't offensive to anyone

none taken.

14 minutes ago, healing light said:

The real problem here is your insecurities, not what you have to offer.

well this makes me feel better. thanks. 

 

15 minutes ago, healing light said:

But being affected by emotional scenes in movies and tv shows sounds like it's only as big of a problem as you make it.

Crying for me is pretty much normal. I don't see it as an inherent issue and never have, but other people do tell you that, as a guy, you shouldn't do it which makes me feel bad.

[dramafreezone]

2 hours ago, bradlyboy said:

Hello All,

Of course this sounds like I'm incredibly insecure. However, I am telling the truth. I am very emotional, sensitive and effeminate, but I'm not a pretty boy. I cry very often. And my hands and feet are usually smaller than the average woman. I'm also short. I've more or less come to accept this and I try hard to love myself and appreciate my body. As a person, I definitely have my strengths, but, as a man, I can't conform to traditional gender norms. 
I have never experienced a romantic love; whereas most women my age have had 3-4 partners. I know that women care about how experienced a man is as well. Even though I want to please a woman just as well as any guy she's ever dated, my lack of experience means I wouldn't be able to (in various ways). Well, at least not right away. 
I know that women don't find me attractive and think that I am inferior as a man since I can't conform to their standards. I just make other men look better. 
Even though I want to be a better man, it's hard knowing that it's impossible for me to achieve what a woman considers to be a man. I'm not looking to be comforted, but I would like a coping strategy or perhaps some advice. I'd like to be less jealous of prettier, more masculine men. And I'd like to believe that a special romance is waiting for me out there. But it's hard when women seem to only want one kind of guy and tell you as much. 
It also isn't fair to me that other men get to have more relationships with women because they are (more often at least) within a woman's strike zone.
I'd like you all to assume that my assessment of myself is realistic. Even though I'm sure plenty of insecure guys come here looking for compliments, I'd rather hear what guys have to say about my situation as I've assessed it. And if you are a more feminine and unattractive man, what do you do about it? 

I don't think it's your size.  I'm a short guy and I've had very beautiful GFs and sexual partners.  You never know what a particular woman goes for.  I won't say that I get pretty women all day every day but I've attracted enough to know that my body size is not a huge deal.

That said I'm not going to sit up here and lie to you.  Yes there are certain body types and looks that women traditionally go for.  So what?  There's not a thing you can do about that, so don't even worry about it.

So many men worry about sexual experience and I don't think it means a lot to women.  If a woman is really into you she will remember the experience as very good and very "hot."  Also you have to remember that a lot of women are just as insecure as you are.  They aren't busy thinking about you, they're worried about if you find *them* attractive.

In short try to get out of your own head.  I would recommend seeing a therapist who can help you to get to the heart of these insecurities and deal with them constructively.  For every type of guy there is a woman that will find him attractive, and even with women that go for a type, sometimes they'll break their own rules for someone that they really vibe with.

Edited May 24, 2022 by dramafreezone

[healing light]

Just now, bradlyboy said:

Crying for me is pretty much normal. I don't see it as an inherent issue and never have, but other people do tell you that, as a guy, you shouldn't do it which makes me feel bad.

That's a healthier relationship to crying than many men have, imo. My dad used to make fun of any of us when we cried, mocking the crying noises. I would much rather have a man who felt comfortable shedding a few tears than one who was always stoic or had issues expressing himself. Not everyone woman or person will agree with me on that one. But I've generally found the more a person is comfortable in their own skin, the more their presence tends to free up the others around them to feel the same.

[Weezy1973]

20 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

 But nevertheless it's true that people are judging you all the time. Everyone does it. If not consciously then unconsciously. 

The vast majority of people are not paying any attention to you whatsoever. And if they are judging, it's not "is this person adequate or not?" In a romantic context they're not judging either. Either they find you attractive or they don't. Just like some women you're attracted to and others you aren't. The ones you're not attracted to aren't "inadequate".

[basil67]

47 minutes ago, bradlyboy said:

Maybe it's not your experience, but it's certainly the case for me that women will point out where they find you to be inadequate.

Every gender has rude people and I'm sorry that other women are this rude to you.

Question is, what do you do about it?  You can ignore.  You can tell them to sod off.  You can insult them in return.  If it's someone you have to see again like a colleague, I'd suggest ignoring or giving a withering look.  But if it's someone who you will never interact with again, pay back the insult if it gives you a bit of fun.  Get a repertoire!

[bradlyboy]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Every gender has rude people and I'm sorry that other women are this rude to you.

Question is, what do you do about it?  You can ignore.  You can tell them to sod off.  You can insult them in return.  If it's someone you have to see again like a colleague, I'd suggest ignoring or giving a withering look.  But if it's someone who you will never interact with again, pay back the insult if it gives you a bit of fun.  Get a repertoire!

Yeah this is something I worry about actually. When people insult you, I don't know what to do. Especially if it's a girl, I don't want to hurt her feelings and snap back. Or say something heated in the moment. And until now, I had thought it must be a legitimate weakness of mine, and that, if that's what they thought, then I want to hear it. 

In brief, you have to defend yourself when someone attacks you like that.

[basil67]

No, it's not a weakness of yours, it them being rude.  

The only reason they do it is because at best, they have no manners and at worst they are putting you down because it's fun.  I've gone down this rabbit hole myself because I have a son with a disability and people can say the most appalling things.   How you respond really does depend on whether it's someone who matters to you vs someone who you're stuck with (like a horrible aunt or work colleague) vs a complete stranger.

Complete strangers are the easiest because you don't have to consider their feelings.  Ask yourself why you care if you hurt the feelings of a girl who just said something rude to you.  In all likelihood, she was probably one of the mean girls at school and has hurt a whole lot of people in her past and takes pleasure in it.  Or if you don't want to engage (which is also a sensible decision) simply telling her to either sod off is perfectly fine.  You never have to see them again, so why worry.

If it's someone you're stuck with, I think an answer which puts them in their place without being rude is the best.  Something like "Yes, I do know I'm short.  But why did you feel the need to tell me?"  I'm serious about this.  Put them on the spot as to why they choose to be hurtful

If it's someone you care about, then you can use the one for the work mate, or you can tell them how their words make you feel. If they care, the will apologise and stop doing it.  If they don't apologise, that means they don't care and you can feel free to start using the steps for those who you don't care about.

 

 

[basil67]

@bradlyboy for what it's worth, my daughter doesn't care about height.  Her boyfriend is inch shorter than her and they are starting to make noises about a long term future together.  Her only caveat for a shorter guy is that he accepts that wears heels.  She's not giving up her shoes for any guy  

Anyway, apparently when she's been speaking to guys on apps, she's open about not caring about height.  She's reported that a number of tall guys have responded in a disappointed way "my height is the only thing I've got going for myself".  So even those tall guys are riddled with insecurity

[glows]

3 hours ago, bradlyboy said:

So, as far as you're concerned, I should just drop it? I want women to find me attractive, and they don't. I can improve on things like fashion, grooming, style, and etc, so basically just focus on that? 

Well, I guess you're probably right. There's a limit to what I can change as a person. Still, I do want to be beautiful, but I guess if I'm not then I'm just not and well I should get over it. I'm definitely too concerned with looks as you say. Of course, I have many ambitions as a person (learning, reading, exercise etc.). 

It still seems unfair to me that other people get to be beautiful. It's a great power in this world. 

Is it really so wrong to want to be someone different? I don't essentially mind that I have small hands or that I'm short. But when women point it out to you, it's clear that they care. All these things about myself have done nothing but cause trouble for me. Do I really have a right to have an unwavering belief in myself even when other people let me know that I'm less valuable to them? 

I'm just getting caught up with the thread. My earlier post/s were emphasizing more balance and placing less importance on your looks or the interpretation of yourself as inadequate. It goes beyond fashion, grooming, style etc. Think more than that - what makes you compatible with someone else at the end of the day when all those material things come off and you're left with your character and personality. There's a lot to be said about inner beauty. 

I think a lot of good looking people lack that too and as mentioned previously are not without their own insecurities. And yes, we need to be mindful of the things we can change and improve versus the ones that we can't easily without cosmetic surgery or major invasive surgeries. 

People who find fault with you or pass rude comments are doing it because they don't feel good about themselves. Some just feel entitled to voicing whatever comes to mind with no filter or no care whatsoever about how another person feels. A decent person will be able to check their thoughts and practice empathy. You're again screening for company, whether friendships or relationships, are of substance. The issue here is that you place so much importance on your looks that when you aren't accepted you feel slighted. I think we can all relate in some way because we're not recognized in the way we want to be recognized. Choose your company very carefully and don't hesitate to evacuate people who just don't have a clue about how to be decent or considerate. 

And finally to answer your last question, YES. You have a right to have an unwavering belief in yourself even when others let you know that you are less valuable because, again, self-worth and inner beauty comes from within and knowing that you bring more to the table than your looks. "Yourself" is comprised of many facets, not just your outer exterior. 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by glows

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, bradlyboy said:

. I am very emotional, sensitive and effeminate, but I'm not a pretty boy. I cry very often. And my hands and feet are usually smaller than the average woman. I'm also short. 

How old are you? What exactly do you mean by "feminine" and "pretty boy"?

The first step is to go to a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. 

There are many endocrine and genetic syndromes that could be ruled out. 

Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support. Discuss the crying jags and any gender identity issues you feel you may have.

As far as looks, of course you can make the best of that with fitness, grooming, etc. 

As far as self confidence, you'll have to be evaluated for physical problems first, then engage in therapy.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Wiseman2

[SingFish]

11 hours ago, bradlyboy said:

Do I really have a right to have an unwavering belief in myself even when other people let me know that I'm less valuable to them? 

Yes. Why would you want to be around someone who does not appreciate you and has no manners?