Seeking 'Permission'

[Cherry05]

My husband and I have been married for 11 years. I don't have many friends, so I never go out or anything. A couple of weeks back, my job had an end of year party (school) for employees only. I literally had to beg my husband to go. And when he finally made a decision. He says he will ALLOW me to go. It started at 9pm and ended at 2am, which I told him. Well I got home a little after 1am and he was so mad and said that I'm not going to be going anywhere for a while. I was really annoyed at this, but let it slide. A week or so later, a friend at work invited me to a women's conference. It was only like an hour or 2. This time he told me he would think about it. Eventually, he told me no. Now, he has gone out with friends/cousins, even the casino overnight. I never said anything because it doesn't bother me. He doesn't ask permission. He just says he's gonna go, but for some reason that's not acceptable for me. 

So, I brought it up. I asked why do I need to ask for permission to do stuff, when I'm grown. I asked if I gave him a reason to think I'm doing something I'm not supposed to and he said no. He never gave me an answer and completely flipped the whole thing around. He said that my friend is not my friend and questioned what makes her a friend. He says he hangs out with cousins so it's different. He says I don't care about him, but he cares about me, so thats why he questions where I'm going. It completely switched to a 1 1/2 lecture about him and what bothers him instead of resolving the issue. This really bothers me and I don't know how to approach it respectively. This and a number of other things are really getting to me, but whenever I bring them up, they ALWAYS get turned around. ☹️

[stillafool]

How frustrating for you.  I would calmly tell him that you are grown and will go to the women's conference with your friend at work.  Tell him he's free to call you if he likes but you are going.  If you start letting him tell you what you can and cannot do he will continue to treat you like a child.  Has he done this before in the 11 years you've been married?

[Cherry05]

Just now, stillafool said:

How frustrating for you.  I would calmly tell him that you are grown and will go to the women's conference with your friend at work.  Tell him he's free to call you if he likes but you are going.  If you start letting him tell you what you can and cannot do he will continue to treat you like a child.  Has he done this before in the 11 years you've been married?

I already missed the conference 😔. I never really went anywhere before, but yes when I wanted to, I asked. Even with my mom who lives 2 hours away. He says I can't drive that far by myself with the kids to visit.

[Will am I]

I'm afraid your husband is showing a lack of confidence, a bad mentality towards you and wrong ideas of what a marriage should be. That is all is on him. 

 

Unless he changes thouroughly, I don't think you will be happy in this marriage anymore. You put up with it for 11 years (mainly by learning to avoid these situations). But reading your post today, you have chosen not to accept his antics anymore. It is likely that your irritation and anger will go up and up from here if the pattern continues. At one point you will leave. If not in the short term, I'm pretty sure you will when you get older.

Set your boundaries. Mentally prepare yourself to break up if he won't respect those. 

Sit down with him and be firm. The marriage changes, or ends.

 

[vla1120]

Oh my. This is reminiscent of my (previous) controlling husband. Telling you that he cares about you, and that's why he needs to know where you are all the time, gaslighting and turning things around on you, trying to isolate you from family and friends by telling you they really aren't your "friends". So, so, so many red flags. You have to take control of your situation and set boundaries by telling him you are going to go out when you want and be friends with who you want. This might be very hard for you if it has been going on for 11 years. What is his behavior when you "go against" him? Do you have family members nearby that you are close to?

[Cherry05]

10 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

What is his behavior when you "go against" him? Do you have family members nearby that you are close to?

I've never really gone against him. I guess coming home later than he wanted was. He just gave me the silent treatment. Yes, my dad and stepmom are not too far away. I visit them with no problem.

[Wiseman2]

46 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

He says he will ALLOW me to go.  I got home a little after 1am and he was so mad and said that I'm not going to be going anywhere for a while.

Are you in a country/culture where the wife needs permission from the husband? Your marriage sounds abusive.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Cherry05]

17 minutes ago, Will am I said:

You put up with it for 11 years (mainly by learning to avoid these situations). 

 

Yes! I am constantly avoiding situations. It feels like I am always walking on eggshells. 😐

[Cherry05]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you in a country/culture where the wife needs permission from the husband? Your marriage sounds abusive.

Not at all. We're in Texas and and not the norm of our cultures. I guess I started asking as a sign of respect, but now it's getting to me. Like why not? There's no reason for him to tell me no to anything.

[Will am I]

1 minute ago, Cherry05 said:

Yes! I am constantly avoiding situations. It feels like I am always walking on eggshells. 😐

I am worried about your safety.

 

Because you have come to a point where you are no longer willing to put up with your husband's excessive controlling, conflicts will soar.

Does your husband have a history of violence or agression? Do you feel you physically safe? 

If things explode, do you have a place to go? Are you confident enough to walk out if that happens?

 

 

 

[Cherry05]

1 minute ago, Will am I said:

I am worried about your safety.

 

Because you have come to a point where you are no longer willing to put up with your husband's excessive controlling, conflicts will soar.

Does your husband have a history of violence or agression? Do you feel you physically safe? 

If things explode, do you have a place to go? Are you confident enough to walk out if that happens?

 

 

 

No, he's not really aggressive and doesn't get physical. I would say mentally abusive if anything. Every issue just gets turned around. He tries to hurt with words/guilt trips. So physically, I feel safe.

I would have a place to go if things get bad.

[Will am I]

Another angle on your husband's behaviour.

The root cause of his desire to control is probably insecurity and a lack of self confidence. He controls his wife to make sure that she doesn't sleep around. 

Exercising this kind of extreme control over a woman from a relatively young age can hurt her self esteem and make her insecure too. The paradox is that insecure women have a much bigger chance of getting into sub standard relationships. Including affairs. So he's not only hurting you, he's also not helping his own case.

 

[mark clemson]

Agree - sounds like a "control freak". In every relationship I've been in, one partner doesn't dictate to the other what they will or won't do. There can be discussions and there can even be, in extreme cases, dealbreakers, but that is different from telling someone "you won't be going to that" or similar. That goes double when it's work/professional growth related.

[Cherry05]

10 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Another angle on your husband's behaviour.

The root cause of his desire to control is probably insecurity and a lack of self confidence. He controls his wife to make sure that she doesn't sleep around. 

Exercising this kind of extreme control over a woman from a relatively young age can hurt her self esteem and make her insecure too. The paradox is that insecure women have a much bigger chance of getting into sub standard relationships. Including affairs. So he's not only hurting you, he's also not helping his own case.

 

I can definitely see that. I see that he has some insecurities and that has actually came up in previous posts too. We've been together since I was 18, and maybe I'm just now realizing this isn't okay.

[Cherry05]

9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

That goes double when it's work/professional growth related.

The women's conference was literally about woman empowerment and was like a spiritual gathering. That's why I was really like, wow! It didn't make any sense to me. 

[Will am I]

20 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I can definitely see that. I see that he has some insecurities and that has actually came up in previous posts too. We've been together since I was 18, and maybe I'm just now realizing this isn't okay.

And indeed, it is not okay. Everyone here says the same thing. And we're very different people from different ages, genders and cultural backgrounds.

 

Personal perspective: he should be encouraging you to attend women's conferences in church. Building a more confident and empowered wife will be to his benefit too.

Many of the struggles I have had with my wife go back to insecurities that she brought into the marriage. (she comes from a family with plenty of love and a lot of good things but also a huge pattern of disrespecting eachothers' boundaries and my mother in law is one of the most insecure people I know. I guess those things sometimes get passed down). She wants to go to a womens' conference 1000 miles away next year. I intend to make that happen. Because I want her to be confident and independent and not lean on me all the time and be with me because she wants to, not because she feels she lacks better alternatives.

[Alpacalia]

There's a reason why he would like you to be isolated from the world so that you'll have no network of support outside of him. That gives him the most say and control over what you are thinking and feeling, as well as what you do. His method is to get you to withdraw from your family and friends and social life slowly.

Your mental strength needs to be strong. 

Practice good self-care and reconnect with friends and family. It is best to leave a relationship when controlling behavior and emotional abuse are so prevalent. This is a big decision that must be taken very seriously as it is not something that can be taken lightly.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Alpacalia

[dramafreezone]

Have you considered marriage counseling?

He is exhibiting controlling behavior, but understanding the root of it is just as important as identifying what's happening.  Is this behavior new? 

Sure we can guess why he's acting like this on here but we are not privy to all of the information and we are not in the role of counselor on here.  Marriage counseling is something that I would broach, in a way that is non-accusatory or suggests that *he's* the problem. 

Instead present it as this is something that can make the marriage stronger, and you both owe it to yourselves after being together for so long IMO.  Everything in our lives needs maintenance, marriages are no different.

Edited June 7, 2022 by dramafreezone

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

I literally had to beg my husband to go.

In my house, nobody asks permission to leave. We share plans out of respect and consideration for the other person… but the day I have to ask “permission” to go out or my husband feels that he has the right to deny me/allow me to leave my own home for whatever reason - that’s the day I file for divorce on the grounds that my husband is controlling and abusive. 

1 hour ago, Cherry05 said:

We're in Texas and and not the norm of our cultures.

No, it’s not the norm. It is the norm in abusive marriages, however. 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by BaileyB

[glows]

Your relationship is abusive and controlling if your partner is preventing you from going out or if you need his permission. It's one thing to let your SO/husband/wife know that you have plans are stepping out for a few hours with so and so but not to the point where the other person is dictating when you can come and go or who you want to spend time with, also questioning your choice in friendships. 

What are the other "number of things" that bother you? 

[glows]

1 hour ago, Cherry05 said:

The women's conference was literally about woman empowerment and was like a spiritual gathering. That's why I was really like, wow! It didn't make any sense to me. 

Why would an abusive spouse want an empowered woman for a wife? That's the antidote to abuse. Abusers go after and control individuals whom they can isolate and manipulate. Of course he doesn't want you to be around other female friends because he's likely afraid you'll realize other women aren't being treated the same way in their relationships.

[Cherry05]

50 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Have you considered marriage counseling?

He is exhibiting controlling behavior, but understanding the root of it is just as important as identifying what's happening.  Is this behavior new?

I brought up marriage counseling a number of times. He doesn't want to. 

It's not really new. I think I just finally had the courage to say something. I also don't attempt to go to places often.

[Cherry05]

13 minutes ago, glows said:

What are the other "number of things" that bother you? 

1) Doesn't help me around the house. (We have 4 kids and I also work full time)

2) We have sex maybe twice a month. Same boring way each time...never seen him with his shirt off

3) Can't ever say something nice about me.

4) Likes to "one up" me in every thing/he's always right

5) Makes more than me, yet I still pay more in bills

I've brought every single one of these up several times and they get flipped around/avoided.

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, Cherry05 said:

Makes more than me, yet I still pay more in bills

What now?

2 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I've brought every single one of these up several times and they get flipped around/avoided.

Seems to be a pattern of behavior.

8 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I brought up marriage counseling a number of times. He doesn't want to. 

Not surprising. Why would he want to go to counselling where he may be told that he needs to change his behavior - I mean, who needs that? 

9 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I also don't attempt to go to places often.

Typical of women who find themselves in relationships with controlling and advising men. You change your behavior so as not to create problems in the relationship - to appease your partner. Done so subtly, you don’t even realize you are doing it… until one day, you say “I would like to go out today” and he says “I will allow you to go but only if you are home by this time. And, do not ask/expect this to happen again.” 

Suddenly, we have a serious problem. 

[Cherry05]

10 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

What now?

Yes, so he was getting paid very slightly less than me. I was paying more bills - struggling though.

A couple months ago, he got a raise/promotion. Makes $30,000 more than me a year. Still paying the same bills.