Seeking 'Permission'

[glows]

24 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

1) Doesn't help me around the house. (We have 4 kids and I also work full time)

2) We have sex maybe twice a month. Same boring way each time...never seen him with his shirt off

3) Can't ever say something nice about me.

4) Likes to "one up" me in every thing/he's always right

5) Makes more than me, yet I still pay more in bills

I've brought every single one of these up several times and they get flipped around/avoided.

I'm sorry that he's not listening. Talking becomes exhaustive after awhile when it feels like no one is listening or your partner doesn't care. You have some decisions to make as I doubt he will change.

[Will am I]

12 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

1) Doesn't help me around the house. (We have 4 kids and I also work full time)

2) We have sex maybe twice a month. Same boring way each time...never seen him with his shirt off

3) Can't ever say something nice about me.

4) Likes to "one up" me in every thing/he's always right

5) Makes more than me, yet I still pay more in bills

I've brought every single one of these up several times and they get flipped around/avoided.

I think a large majority of the women on this forum would have long left the marriage.

 

I am not writing this to put you down or to make you feel bad about your life choices or to condemn you for still being in that marriage. I recognize that you got married very young and you got groomed into this situation by a spouse who was probably always like this (as soon as the sweet "dating mask" came undone). People who are structurally mistreated from a young age don't develop proper self respect and boundaries and hence the bad treatment can often continue for a long long time. So I am not judging you. 

 

Actually, let's talk self confidence for a minute.

1. You raise 4 children, run a household pretty much by yourself and work full time.

2. You want to have sex with your spouse more frequently and in less boring ways.

3. You are able to function for an extended amount of time with very little validation (very much unlike today's generation of self absorbed instagram "like" addicts).

4. Unlike your husband, you are patient and humble and not adament about "being right" all the time. 

5. You are willing to make large financial sacrifices for your family.

You must be an amazing woman and a very desireable life partner. 

 

[Cherry05]

I also forgot to mention, I'm not allowed to have social media. Only Facebook and I use Twitter for work. But as far as TikTok, Snapchat, or Instagram, he says I can't have them.

---- My. kids. have. them. 😐

[Cherry05]

11 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Actually, let's talk self confidence for a minute.

1. You raise 4 children, run a household pretty much by yourself and work full time.

2. You want to have sex with your spouse more frequently and in less boring ways.

3. You are able to function for an extended amount of time with very little validation (very much unlike today's generation of self absorbed instagram "like" addicts).

4. Unlike your husband, you are patient and humble and not adament about "being right" all the time. 

5. You are willing to make large financial sacrifices for your family.

You must be an amazing woman and a very desireable life partner. 

 

Thank you! 🙂 Did I mention I just graduated with my Masters last month?! I would be fine by myself. It's just about building the courage to make that move.

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I also forgot to mention, I'm not allowed to have social media. Only Facebook and I use Twitter for work. But as far as TikTok, Snapchat, or Instagram, he says I can't have them.

---- My. kids. have. them. 😐

Kindly, remind me of the quote - 

Nobody can treat you poorly without your consent. 

 

1 minute ago, Cherry05 said:

It's just about building the courage to make that move.

I wish you well. Perhaps what you need is individual counselling, not marriage counselling, as you consider/plan for this decision. And I would consult a lawyer myself. Educate yourself.

[Will am I]

47 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

Thank you! 🙂 Did I mention I just graduated with my Masters last month?! I would be fine by myself. It's just about building the courage to make that move.

You must be one truly amazing person! 

 

I believe that you need to build confidence and self esteem.

The good way to self esteem is to spend more time with good friends and to give attention to your spiritual growth.

The first of your husband’s restrictions to start ignoring is his limit on your communication and social apps. You need to become more active in friendships. 
 

In the back of my head: strengthen your support network in case you may need it. The survival of your marriage is not very certain at this time.
 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Cherry05 said:

I would be fine by myself. It's just about building the courage to make that move.

Excellent. Talk to an attorney about your options in divorce. Do Not Tell him (and certainly don't ask permission!). That may give you some of the clarity you need.

In the future do not ask permission, just go and do whatever you need/want to do. Do you family/friends know he treats you this poorly?

Being a prisoner in your marriage is not a good example or environment for your children.

Leave before you are too institutionalized and damaged to:

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Cherry05]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Do you family/friends know he treats you this poorly?

Love the video! They know bits and pieces. Not everything.

[Will am I]

“my friends know bits and pieces”

That is actually a very common pattern with people who are in the most desolate places. 
Their hearts are aching to cry out, yet they can only get fragments over their lips.

Maybe they don’t know where to start, maybe they don’t want to be whiners, maybe the social pressure of being strong and successful and happy is too much. Maybe they don’t want to burdain the ones they love.

So one friend gets this little piece, the next friend another, nobody gets the whole puzzle. It becomes especially heartbreaking when there was a suicide and the friend network is strong and they stay together after the act and the puzzle starts coming together and everyone feels guilty because they would have done so much more if only they knew.

 

No more of that, @Cherry05. What you need is at least one close (female) friend in whom you can fully confide. You may also need her for practical support if you decide to end your marriage. A place to hide money and paperwork in your preparation phase. A correspondence address for your secret bank account and the real estate agents you are contacting for a new home. A friend who knows exactly when you might be at risk of physical harm and knows a secret safety code when you needs to call for help but have your husband controlling your communications. 
 

I think it’s a good idea to start lining up that special friend.

[SingFish]

7 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

The women's conference was literally about woman empowerment

And that's what he doesn't want for you.

Is it what you want for yourself?

 

[ExpatInItaly]

You are a grown woman, OP. 

There is absolutely no reason why you need to ask him for permission to leave the house and have friends or have social media. He is not your father nor your warden. My assumption is that this abusive dynamic began long ago. And reading the details you added about your marriage, it's indeed been a very dysfunctional relationship for a long time. Unfortunately, you have (unwittingly) been enabling it by even agreeing to ask his permission to be an independent adult in the first place. 

He isn't going to come around and see your side of things. That's the reason he doesn't want to do marriage counselling. He is perfectly content with treating you like a child and controlling and isolating you. It works for him. It isn't in his interest to have third party tell him that that this is abusive and not working. He knows what any good marriage counsellor will say about this, and he doesn't care to hear it. 

You have some huge decisions to make. Because I can nearly guarantee that he won't change. Only you can. You can decide for yourself when enough is enough, and when you are ready to end this. 

[Els]

I'm confused.

What happens if you just.... go.... without asking? Nobody can make you ask or beg to do something, and indeed no adult woman should be asking their partner if they are "allowed" to hang out with a female friend or attend a conference (some of us do, out of respect, invite the husband along if we are meeting a male friend alone). His response, when you come back, will be all the answer you need as to whether you should stay or leave this relationship.

If you fear for your physical safety if you were to do that, then that in itself is the answer - you need to leave now.

[giotto]

15 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

1) Doesn't help me around the house. (We have 4 kids and I also work full time)

2) We have sex maybe twice a month. Same boring way each time...never seen him with his shirt off

3) Can't ever say something nice about me.

4) Likes to "one up" me in every thing/he's always right

5) Makes more than me, yet I still pay more in bills

I've brought every single one of these up several times and they get flipped around/avoided.

wow, wow, wow... why are you staying with this abusive, controlling, useless man? I'm speechless.

[glows]

18 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

Thank you! 🙂 Did I mention I just graduated with my Masters last month?! I would be fine by myself. It's just about building the courage to make that move.

Congratulations. 

Speak with a lawyer.

[Weezy1973]

18 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

It's just about building the courage to make that move.

You just make the move, whether you feel like you have the courage to or not. Take the first step. 

[Will am I]

34 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You just make the move, whether you feel like you have the courage to or not. Take the first step. 

But do make sure you are prepared. Do not move out of the marital house without consulting a divorce lawyer first!

(in some jurisdictions moving out can work against you jn divorce proceedings and/or child visitation)

[Cherry05]

5 hours ago, giotto said:

wow, wow, wow... why are you staying with this abusive, controlling, useless man? I'm speechless.

I guess I never saw it as abuse, being that it wasn't physical. But I'm definitely seeing it's just another form.

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I guess I never saw it as abuse, being that it wasn't physical. But I'm definitely seeing it's just another form.

Research "emotional abuse" and "controlling behavior".

Without asking him or telling him, talk to a therapist who can guide you on what is normal and what is abusive.

Research "Stockholm syndrome" and "cognitive dissonance".

[vla1120]

8 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I guess I never saw it as abuse, being that it wasn't physical. But I'm definitely seeing it's just another form.

In some ways, it's the worst kind of abuse because it is invisible, but it completely destroys your self-worth. The fact that you've spent this long asking his permission proves that he has successfully groomed you to be easily controlled.

If/when you do decide to go, make sure you have spoken to a lawyer. Don't tell your husband your plan. Enlist your close family members to help you. Based on what you have shared (he doesn't allow you to have social media, etc.), he's not going to let you go easily. However, you have a master's degree. You can be self-sufficient. Most importantly, this is not the example of a marriage that you want to show your children. 

[Cherry05]

So, this is what happened last night. I folded laundry most of the afternoon/ evening upstairs in the gameroom, by myself. I went downstairs and started putting up the laundry when my friend from work called me. I literally never talk on the phone, but we ended up talking for over an hour. He left the room and rolled his eyes and I kept talking. He came back in the room after a while and said "don't make me be mean." And I said why and he just stared at me, shook his head, and walked out. I finished up on the phone and went in the living room to ask what his deal with me being on the phone was and he says that I was doing stuff all day and didn't spend time with him watching tv. 🤔🤔🤔

I felt bad for half a second. Then thought to myself...if the reason really was time, he could've been sitting with me the whole time I was folding laundry. So the real issue was me being on the phone with a friend.

So, everything you all are saying is so true. It's just taken me a while to see it. My oldest son (12) was even confused as to what the issue was and that's sad.

 

[S2B]

23 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

Not at all. We're in Texas and and not the norm of our cultures. I guess I started asking as a sign of respect, but now it's getting to me. Like why not? There's no reason for him to tell me no to anything.

Then just start stating what you plan to do.

let him know when you’ll be gone - no discussion. 

[Will am I]

44 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

So, this is what happened last night. I folded laundry most of the afternoon/ evening upstairs in the gameroom, by myself. I went downstairs and started putting up the laundry when my friend from work called me. I literally never talk on the phone, but we ended up talking for over an hour. He left the room and rolled his eyes and I kept talking. He came back in the room after a while and said "don't make me be mean." And I said why and he just stared at me, shook his head, and walked out. I finished up on the phone and went in the living room to ask what his deal with me being on the phone was and he says that I was doing stuff all day and didn't spend time with him watching tv. 🤔🤔🤔

I felt bad for half a second. Then thought to myself...if the reason really was time, he could've been sitting with me the whole time I was folding laundry. So the real issue was me being on the phone with a friend.

So, everything you all are saying is so true. It's just taken me a while to see it. My oldest son (12) was even confused as to what the issue was and that's sad.

 

At least you’re starting to see everything more clearly. 

Like the fact that this behavior from your husband was straight up ridiculous.

 

[glows]

49 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

So, this is what happened last night. I folded laundry most of the afternoon/ evening upstairs in the gameroom, by myself. I went downstairs and started putting up the laundry when my friend from work called me. I literally never talk on the phone, but we ended up talking for over an hour. He left the room and rolled his eyes and I kept talking. He came back in the room after a while and said "don't make me be mean." And I said why and he just stared at me, shook his head, and walked out. I finished up on the phone and went in the living room to ask what his deal with me being on the phone was and he says that I was doing stuff all day and didn't spend time with him watching tv. 🤔🤔🤔

I felt bad for half a second. Then thought to myself...if the reason really was time, he could've been sitting with me the whole time I was folding laundry. So the real issue was me being on the phone with a friend.

So, everything you all are saying is so true. It's just taken me a while to see it. My oldest son (12) was even confused as to what the issue was and that's sad.

 

It’s a lot of contempt for no reason. In remaining in a relationship like this just be wary that you don’t become like him and resentful/angry. 

[mark clemson]

I'm not going to advise you to stay or go, although I could certainly see some people wanting/deciding to leave.

I think you may find eventually that "he needs you more than you need him". Whether that becomes a positive thing where he becomes more reasonable and your marriage a pleasant one, an irrelevant thing because "decisions have been made," or a negative and possibly very negative thing where abusive behavior intensifies I guess remains to be seen. Do be careful.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Cherry05 said:

My oldest son (12) was even confused as to what the issue was and that's sad.

Yes, focus on the negative impact his abuse and chaos is causing for your children.