Should I be concerned by wife's contact with ex?

[Friddle32]

Thank you all. I truly appreciate and am working on processing some of your replies.

i think a big issue of mine is that I don’t address things directly with my wife. At least in this scenario.

 When I first brought it up I just said I saw an old picture on her page of her and an ex that upset me. She was kind of like uhhh ok? I didn’t even realize that was still up there I’ve got several thousand pictures I just never go through them.

she then deleted that picture without me asking.

 She kept telling me I had no reason to compare myself to this guy. He’s in her past, it was short lived and they don’t stay in touch.

Then the following week I was like no I need to really say it this time.

I started off thanking her for deleting the picture but was like the picture wasn’t really what I was upset about.

i said I clicked his name in the picture and went to his page. I was a little uncomfortable with the fact you guys still follow each other.

i didn’t even get to bring up the likes and comments because she immediately pulled out her phone and unfollowed/removed him as a friend then said I was looking for reasons to get upset, making her feel like she has to explain or defend her past and that she doesn’t understand where this is coming from.

i kept trying to explain it saying I just want to make sure it’s in the past etc. don’t want to jump to any conclusions.

i even mentioned my ex before her that I similarly only went on a few dates with. I was like hey would you be upset if I still followed her?

 She basically answered with no, I only worried about her when we first started dating because I didn’t know where things were going. Now that’s so long ago, we’re married and we have a kid. “ I won “

she was like “I don’t understand why you’re acting like this but it’s making me uncomfortable”

I kinda ended things there saying okay not my intention, just wanted to communicate how I felt that’s all.

I think I also said something like I just want a future with you and I want to make sure everything’s okay.

 She responded with “if you keep making me feel like I have to explain and defend myself there might not be a future.”

i stopped right there.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Friddle32

[Alpacalia]

46 minutes ago, Friddle32 said:

Thank you all. I truly appreciate and am working on processing some of your replies.

i think a big issue of mine is that I don’t address things directly with my wife. At least in this scenario.

 When I first brought it up I just said I saw an old picture on her page of her and an ex that upset me. She was kind of like uhhh ok? I didn’t even realize that was still up there I’ve got several thousand pictures I just never go through them.

she then deleted that picture without me asking.

 She kept telling me I had no reason to compare myself to this guy. He’s in her past, it was short lived and they don’t stay in touch.

Then the following week I was like no I need to really say it this time.

I started off thanking her for deleting the picture but was like the picture wasn’t really what I was upset about.

i said I clicked his name in the picture and went to his page. I was a little uncomfortable with the fact you guys still follow each other.

i didn’t even get to bring up the likes and comments because she immediately pulled out her phone and unfollowed/removed him as a friend then said I was looking for reasons to get upset, making her feel like she has to explain or defend her past and that she doesn’t understand where this is coming from.

i kept trying to explain it saying I just want to make sure it’s in the past etc. don’t want to jump to any conclusions.

i even mentioned my ex before her that I similarly only went on a few dates with. I was like hey would you be upset if I still followed her?

 She basically answered with no, I only worried about her when we first started dating because I didn’t know where things were going. Now that’s so long ago, we’re married and we have a kid. “ I won “

she was like “I don’t understand why you’re acting like this but it’s making me uncomfortable”

I kinda ended things there saying okay not my intention, just wanted to communicate how I felt that’s all.

I think I also said something like I just want a future with you and I want to make sure everything’s okay.

 She responded with “if you keep making me feel like I have to explain and defend myself there might not be a future.”

i stopped right there.

I'm so glad to hear this, OP.

I definitely believe that the devil is sometimes in the details, but sometimes all it takes is a good approach (communication) to make sure that the other person is also hearing you.

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

i think a big issue of mine is that I don’t address things directly with my wife. At least in this scenario.

 

Some people make it difficult to address things directly. If your concerns are being met with dismissive comments and "push back" in various forms, such as declining intimacy as one possible example, then understandably you are, essentially, being "trained" to not air your views and/or accept when they are not taken seriously by her.

That approach may work conveniently short term, but in the long run it unfortunately tends to lead to deeper, more pervasive issues in the marriage.  I get the sense that this may be part of what's going on in your case.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

She basically answered with no, I only worried about her when we first started dating because I didn’t know where things were going. Now that’s so long ago, we’re married and we have a kid. “ I won “

This is a healthy response OP. She did her assessment of the situation, decided that the relationship was in the past and there was no threat to the relationship. She decided to trust in you and the relationship and she moved on with life. This is where you need to get - 

You have done your assessment and instead of saying as she did, “I find her words and actions reassuring, I will trust her and let this go…” You are saying - “This may be a threat to my marriage. I don’t trust her and I need to defend myself and my marriage at all cost!” This is what anxiety tends to do sometimes - our anxiety and fear and insecurity (mis)lead us to believe that something is is a threat when in truth, it’s not. Perhaps, it’s something to watch. Perhaps, it’s nothing at all. That’s where counselling comes in - if you can challenge those anxious thoughts, do an assessment of the facts, and determine if that perceived threat is real or if it our anxiety creating a heightened state of alert and worry - it would be very helpful in this situation. 

2 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

She responded with “if you keep making me feel like I have to explain and defend myself there might not be a future.”

Good for you for knowing when to stop. As I said above, continue to show her distrust and she will become more angry and resentful - you will ultimately damage or destroy the very thing that you are trying to protect (your marriage)! 

Edited June 24, 2022 by BaileyB

[Friddle32]

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

This is a healthy response OP. She did her assessment of the situation, decided that the relationship was in the past and there was no threat to the relationship. She decided to trust in you and the relationship and she moved on with life. This is where you need to get - 

You have done your assessment and instead of saying as she did, “I find her words and actions reassuring, I will trust her and let this go…” You are saying - “This may be a threat to my marriage. I don’t trust her and I need to defend myself and my marriage at all cost!” This is what anxiety tends to do sometimes - our anxiety and fear and insecurity (mis)lead us to believe that something is is a threat when in truth, it’s not. Perhaps, it’s something to watch. Perhaps, it’s nothing at all. That’s where counselling comes in - if you can challenge those anxious thoughts, do an assessment of the facts, and determine if that perceived threat is real or if it our anxiety creating a heightened state of alert and worry - it would be very helpful in this situation. 

Good for you for knowing when to stop. As I said above, continue to show her distrust and she will become more angry and resentful - you will ultimately damage or destroy the very thing that you are trying to protect (your marriage)! 

I can’t help but feel like her response would be different if I handled myself like her. I cut that girl off asap when I started dating my wife and do not follow her on anything.

 I’d imagine that eases her worry and makes it easier to feel like it’s benign where she still follows her ex and likes pics of him with his shirt off.

otherwise I probably wouldn’t be stuck on this. It’s the continued engagement that gets me. Plus the fact that she knew about my ex and we discussed it years ago. I never even knew this guy existed until I came upon a photo.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Friddle32

[Wiseman2]

It doesn't seem like this old flame from before you even knew each other and sharing a hobby and some social media responses are threatening you or your marriage. Did you get her the pot/pans she wanted for her birthday?

[Friddle32]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

It doesn't seem like this old flame from before you even knew each other and sharing a hobby and some social media responses are threatening you or your marriage. Did you get her the pot/pans she wanted for her birthday?

Yes I did lol

[heartwhole2]

28 minutes ago, Friddle32 said:

I can’t help but feel like her response would be different if I handled myself like her. I cut that girl off asap when I started dating my wife and do not follow her on anything.

 I’d imagine that eases her worry and makes it easier to feel like it’s benign where she still follows her ex and likes pics of him with his shirt off.

otherwise I probably wouldn’t be stuck on this. It’s the continued engagement that gets me. Plus the fact that she knew about my ex and we discussed it years ago. I never even knew this guy existed until I came upon a photo.

One thing I've learned in marriage is that we treat our spouse how we want to be treated, which is great and all, except when we differ on how we want to be treated.

You want her to be upfront and proactive, so that's how you are.

She wants you to be trusting and to take action only if she complains, so that's how she is.

The key is open communication. I don't like that she said, "We might not have a future if you keep this up." That seems like a very nuclear response to some mild to moderate insecurity. If she says things like this often, if she uses threats of withdrawing herself to get you to comply, then she's manipulating you.

But we weren't there in this conversation, and it's possible she meant that as a quasi-joke, or just said it because you kind of set it up for her.

So yeah, the golden rule is treating others how we want to be treated, but maybe the platinum rule is understanding how others want to be treated and doing our best to honor that, even when it's not our natural way.

[BaileyB]

44 minutes ago, Friddle32 said:

I can’t help but feel like her response would be different if I handled myself like her. I cut that girl off asap when I started dating my wife and do not follow her on anything.

I hear you, it is likely easier for her to dismiss this individual knowing that you cut all communication. (Then again, does she really know for certain that you ceased communication? Does anyone really know? Or, do you say this because YOU know for certain that you ceased all communication. And, she trusted you.). 

That said, can you appreciate that she may not have understood that having this man listed as one of 362 “friends” on Facebook and liking/commenting on his posts in the way that people do nowadays may not have meant the same to her as it does to you. She is a different person, she thinks and feels very differently about things. We all do. The important thing here is - when she knew it was a problem for you, she did as you asked. She stopped communicating with the man and deleted him as a friend. 

Now sadly, she was a little wishy washy and she has sent some mixed signals that has not helped you - in that she didn’t block him on instagram and if I’m understanding correctly, she hasn’t always been honest and transparent about other things (vaping). That would be more of my issue -  that she isn’t always honest and transparent. But consider the idea that she is entitled to some privacy - even in a relationship. You need to be careful about how much you ask because it will build resentment over time if she feels like you are smothering her and you don’t trust her.

Edited June 24, 2022 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

One thing I've learned in marriage is that we treat our spouse how we want to be treated, which is great and all, except when we differ on how we want to be treated.

You want her to be upfront and proactive, so that's how you are.

She wants you to be trusting and to take action only if she complains, so that's how she is.

This is what I’m saying. Your expectations and your response are different. That is to be expected - you are different people. Just because she didn’t respond the way that you did does not necessarily make her “wrong” and untrustworthy. She just has a different frame of reference than you. She has a different relationship history than you. Perhaps, she has a different sense of security/self esteem than you. You are obviously two people with different life experiences and different personalities. 

The important thing is for you both to be considerate of the other’s need. You need honesty and transparency - she should try to be honest and transparent with you. She wants you to trust her word - you need to try and trust her word. 

[Alpacalia]

O.P., I'm sure you must be tired of reiterating these same points over and over again.

My guess is that she is going to love the pots and pans you bought for her and all the trouble you put into getting them.

 

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 

Some people make it difficult to address things directly. If your concerns are being met with dismissive comments and "push back" in various forms, such as declining intimacy as one possible example, then understandably you are, essentially, being "trained" to not air your views and/or accept when they are not taken seriously by her.

That approach may work conveniently short term, but in the long run it unfortunately tends to lead to deeper, more pervasive issues in the marriage.  I get the sense that this may be part of what's going on in your case.

I agree.

@Friddle32 I'm stuck on the fact that she did "the right thing" by unfriending him on Facebook but continues to be connected to him on Instagram.

It's a bit disturbing to me... I don't even think the guy is an issue. I think some of your wife's actions don't inspire confidence. The problem, in the big picture isn't this chef dude. It's your wife's approach to conflict avoidance/"problem-solving."

Admittedly, I don't know what role you have played in this scenario. That is to say, I don't know if your insecurities and inability to trust her are the result of many "little" lies and inconsistencies on her part over time or if she lies and gaslights you because your insecurities and inability to trust have worn her down.

In the interest of full transparency, I should probably mention that I have been cheated on by an ex-boyfriend, and the first indications that I would be cheated on were evident in "innocuous" public flirting on social media. So I am probably inclined to interpret stuff a particular way.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Acacia98

[Friddle32]

18 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I agree.

@Friddle32 I'm stuck on the fact that she did "the right thing" by unfriending him on Facebook but continues to be connected to him on Instagram.

It's a bit disturbing to me... I don't even think the guy is an issue. I think some of your wife's actions don't inspire confidence. The problem, in the big picture isn't this chef dude. It's your wife's approach to conflict avoidance/"problem-solving."

Admittedly, I don't know what role you have played in this scenario. That is to say, I don't know if your insecurities and inability to trust her are the result of many "little" lies and inconsistencies on her part over time or if she lies and gaslights you because your insecurities and inability to trust have worn her down.

In the interest of full transparency, I should probably mention that I have been cheated on by an ex-boyfriend, and the first indications that I would be cheated on were evident in "innocuous" public flirting on social media. So I am probably inclined to interpret stuff a particular way.

Yeah it feels a little weird to me too. Only thing I can think of is because I did not have Instagram at the time so when I brought it to her attention I said I see you guys still follow each other on Facebook.

she pulled her phone out and removed him on there then put it away.

maybe because I didn’t know and therefore didn’t mention Instagram?

could be an oversight since the removal was done in the moment but strange.

Part of me wants to add him just so she knows I know.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Friddle32

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

Yes I did lol

Ok, now put away the phones and focus on having a happy marriage rather than all the nonsense that happened before. Live in the present. What did you do for her birthday? What is she making you with her new cookware?

Forget a few social media remarks to people who share a cooking interest. The more you redirect your attention away from your marriage and focus on nitpicking or things that really don't affect your marriage the unhappier you'll make yourself.

[Acacia98]

15 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

Yeah it feels a little weird to me too. Only thing I can think of is because I did not have Instagram at the time so when I brought it to her attention I said I see you guys still follow each other on Facebook.

she pulled her phone out and removed him on there then put it away.

maybe because I didn’t know and therefore didn’t mention Instagram?

could be an oversight since the removal was done in the moment but strange.

Part of me wants to add him just so she knows I know.

That's the thing, though. It sounds like she unfriended him to appease you. Not because she felt it was a reasonable step to take to protect her marriage, but because she wanted you to stop going on about it. If she genuinely felt you had a point and she wanted to respect you, she would have also dealt with their connection on Instagram and elsewhere, perhaps without you even knowing.

No, I don't think you should add him. No need for passive aggression or anything like that. Doing that kind of thing muddies the waters, making it difficult to tell what the actual problems in your marriage are. As you can see here, folks are having a hard time seeing the ways she has wronged you because of the ways you have chosen to react. They see your reactions to her, which are not particularly healthy. They don't see her problematic actions.

If you feel the Instagram issue must be addressed, bring it up during your marriage counselling. Generally do your bit to fix your marriage. Also get into individual counselling to address your insecurities and other issues. And just keep your eyes wide open. 

[Friddle32]

34 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

That's the thing, though. It sounds like she unfriended him to appease you. Not because she felt it was a reasonable step to take to protect her marriage, but because she wanted you to stop going on about it. If she genuinely felt you had a point and she wanted to respect you, she would have also dealt with their connection on Instagram and elsewhere, perhaps without you even knowing.

No, I don't think you should add him. No need for passive aggression or anything like that. Doing that kind of thing muddies the waters, making it difficult to tell what the actual problems in your marriage are. As you can see here, folks are having a hard time seeing the ways she has wronged you because of the ways you have chosen to react. They see your reactions to her, which are not particularly healthy. They don't see her problematic actions.

If you feel the Instagram issue must be addressed, bring it up during your marriage counselling. Generally do your bit to fix your marriage. Also get into individual counselling to address your insecurities and other issues. And just keep your eyes wide open. 

Yeah that’s kind of the feeling I get as well. Which kinda sucks. She made it seem like my issues were totally out of nowhere and therefore not taken seriously. Again maybe I was acting out of insecurity? But I felt it needed to be addressed as a potential threat to the marriage.

this was a fleeting and stupid thought, I’m not that kind of person honestly. Just frustrated.

Could you elaborate on any other instances that you felt were unhealthy responses from me? I’d like to reflect a little.

[heartwhole2]

The thing about marriage is that you don't have to share the same assessment of your spouse in order to care about and respect their feelings. So even if she doesn't think this is a big deal by her standards, she should be respectful of your standards. As I've stated before, I think your wife puts up a lot of defenses so she doesn't have to examine herself too closely. She shuts down your attempts to bring things up by leaving the room, accusing you of not trusting her, or saying the marriage might not work out. It would be very different if you were bringing your concerns to someone who was able to recognize when they did that and handle criticism.

Presumably this is a big part of why you are in counseling, and there will be ongoing work and discussions to address these things. My sense about your part in this dance is that if you fixate/obsess about this one thing, it will be harder to get to the root of the issues (self-awareness, communication skills, empathy and respect for one another). This situation is just a symptom of the deeper issues, so don't lose the forest for the trees.

[Alpacalia]

Realize that liking a couple of online shirtless photos is the same as strolling through the mall and staring at pretty women. If you are at the beach or a similar place, do you never look at a good-looking woman? No evidence exists, but look at it similarly.

The difference is that she left a trail. I recommend that both of you refrain from using social media. Insecurity is not attractive. It is not her fault that you are insecure.

[Friddle32]

17 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Realize that liking a couple of online shirtless photos is the same as strolling through the mall and staring at pretty women. If you are at the beach or a similar place, do you never look at a good-looking woman? No evidence exists, but look at it similarly.

The difference is that she left a trail. I recommend that both of you refrain from using social media. Insecurity is not attractive. It is not her fault that you are insecure.

I see a distinct difference in that it’s an ex partner.

 That combined with continued interest in his life and reaching out to him by name.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Friddle32

[Alpacalia]

6 minutes ago, Friddle32 said:

I see a distinct difference in that it’s an ex partner.

 That combined with continued interest in his life and reaching out to him by name.

An ex partner that she dated for ONE month 7 years ago.

[Friddle32]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

An ex partner that she dated for ONE month 7 years ago.

Yeah that’s true. Maybe it’s just me but I have no desire to talk to girls I dated before her.

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

Yeah that’s true. Maybe it’s just me but I have no desire to talk to girls I dated before her.

I understand how upsetting this is for you.

Yet, you cannot control what she does. What you can control is how you react.  

This is an isolated incident. It's done.

When faced with additional exposure to such things in the future, should they arise, you're going to have to consider whether this is a path you want to continue to follow. The limits and ways you view and react to things differ from those of your spouse. Though we all have our thresholds, perhaps this is just yours. If it is, that's okay.

We can work on our insecurities and all that, but we (you) also want to be in a relationship that is fulfilling to us and that makes us feel heard and appreciated. I'm sure you'd also agree that your wife feels similar. 

I can assure you, however, that the insecurity in your relationship, if not addressed, will eventually suffocate your bond rather than nurture it.

 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

I see a distinct difference in that it’s an ex partner. That combined with continued interest in his life and reaching out to him by name.

Your wife is with you and staying social media friends with a guy she dated for a nanosecond almost a decade ago is not a threat to your marriage. I suspect you lack shared interests and hobbies with her or your own and feel a bit jealous of that passion for cooking she has. What stuff do you together? Golf? Tennis? Sailing? Any shared passions?

What is she supposed  to call him besides his name? Perseverating on this may be your way to sidestep what the real insecurities or issues are in the marriage. 

Back to things. Does she love cooking? Is she a good cook? Have you gained a few pounds or feel self conscious or out of shape, hence the upset over  a shirtless pic of this cooking social media friend? Try to identify what's really bothering you so you can resolve the issue.

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, Friddle32 said:

Maybe it’s just me but I have no desire to talk to girls I dated before her.

You are not her, and she is not you. 

This belief that she must think and behave the same way that you do is not helping you here. 

Some people use social media and collect 500+ friends and friends of friends. I have people on my social media that are friends of my family members, friends of friends, people I met in my travels 10 years ago, people I went to school with and haven’t talked with since we were 16 years old… Not everyone attributes “Facebook friends” to - we have a relationship and communicate regularly - as you do. You sound like the kind of guy who has a few relationships and invests deeply. You sound like the kind of guy who’s primary relationship is with his partner. This is my partner. He has a few close friends but not many. He’s not on social media and he thinks it’s absolutely ridiculous that people would want to stay in touch with others with whom they do not have a daily relationship. I am the opposite - I have many friends, family members, and acquaintances. I don’t have an excessive number of Facebook friends but I do have a wide selection of people I have met over the years - many of whom I only communicate with via Facebook likes and comments. I wouldn’t actually call them “friends” - they are people who I stay in touch with because it’s convenient. 

Men and women often have different experiences and different opinions of relationships, social media, among other things. Your inflexibility in considering that she may place a different importance in relationships and social media is keeping your stuck here. 

I may agree with you had they been in a serious relationship, lived together for years, etc… But seriously, she dated this man a few times seven years ago and decided he was not the one… 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by BaileyB

[Friddle32]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

You are not her, and she is not you. 

This belief that she must think and behave the same way that you do is not helping you here. 

Some people use social media and collect 500+ friends and friends of friends. I have people on my social media that are friends of my family members, friends of friends, people I met in my travels 10 years ago, people I went to school with and haven’t talked with since we were 16 years old… Not everyone attributes “Facebook friends” to - we have a relationship and communicate regularly - as you do. You sound like the kind of guy who has a few relationships and invests deeply. You sound like the kind of guy who’s primary relationship is with his partner. This is my partner. He has a few close friends but not many. He’s not on social media and he thinks it’s absolutely ridiculous that people would want to stay in touch with others with whom they do not have a daily relationship. I am the opposite - I have many friends, family members, and acquaintances. I don’t have an excessive number of Facebook friends but I do have a wide selection of people I have met over the years - many of whom I only communicate with via Facebook likes and comments. I wouldn’t actually call them “friends” - they are people who I stay in touch with because it’s convenient. 

Men and women often have different experiences and different opinions of relationships, social media, among other things. Your inflexibility in considering that she may place a different importance in relationships and social media is keeping your stuck here. 

I may agree with you had they been in a serious relationship, lived together for years, etc… But seriously, she dated this man a few times seven years ago and decided he was not the one… 

 

Yeah I understand we will have different opinions of what is and is not acceptable. I think I use interpret it this way because he is the one who ended things/did not reciprocate her feelings. She really thought he was great but he was more focused on his career and not being tied down.

So it’s just a little strange to me like still looking for his attention/approval and the closure she didn’t have?

 Not removing him on all social media just sends a message to me that she doesn’t take my feelings seriously or wants to stay connected for whatever reason.

i think also if there wasn’t such a double standard. I’m a runner and a couple weeks ago a girl I went to college with messaged me about running. Just sent a casual message saying “this trail looks familiar, where do you run?”

 She harped on that for quite a while and actually got upset with me because I had the day off work and went to run at a different park. She kept asking me if I “met up with anyone.”

Edited June 26, 2022 by Friddle32