My story

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, lftbehind said:

 I would like for him to not use controlled substances either, but he won't. . I had gone about 3 years without having an affair.

Don't waste your time looking into him too much. You both know it's a fling, so the answer won't matter much.

Since you don't want to divorce, ask your husband about an open relationship or legal separation. Maybe he is having affairs as well?

 

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, lftbehind said:

He's really not treating me that well, by acting the way that he does when he goes home. He pretty much ignores me all weekend.

He’s not your boyfriend, he is under no obligation to communicate with you on the weekend. He gets what he wants when he sees you and then he goes home - probably to his family… That’s what this pattern of communication says to me. He is busy and you are forgotten on the weekend. 

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I would like to have a good, solid realationship. I feel like I'm in a place of self delusion. 

Most definitely if you are looking to an extramarital affair partner to be a good, solid relationship partner. Affairs are about wanting what you can’t have, stealing whatever time you can have together, dealing with the disappointment and loneliness when you are not together… They occur most often when two unavailable and often unhealthy people come together… because healthy people who are available and looking for a legit relationship tend not to chose unavailable, married relationship partners. None of this lends itself to a “good, solid relationship.”

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, lftbehind said:

try not to make him mad, but sometimes he gets mad at me for everything and I can't get along with him. I think that he's crossed my red line more often than I would like. 

It looks like you are just as abusive to your husband as he is to you.  Probably the reason for his anger and substance abuse stems from the pain he feels knowing his wife is having sex with other men.  Even if he's never found out about your affairs he probably feels them and knows something is off with you that you won't come clean about.  You don't love your husband but won't leave unless you have another man waiting for you.  In otherwords, you can't live without a man.  You could pick up an extra job if you really wanted to be free of him.

[lftbehind]

7 hours ago, Will am I said:

At one point you probably did have romantic feelings, but enough of that mean and disrespectful behaviour can make a woman fall out of love.

I'm a hopeless romantic and I believe a couple can fall back in love. But obviously the undermining behaviour must stop first, and only as a second step it takes a new commitment from both spouses. If the behaviour doesn't change and he's not even sorry, I don't see this happening. I think you need to deal with this reality of being in a marriage but out of love, without perspective on improvement in the foreseeable future.

 

[ ]

When use becomes abuse, the person doing it chooses his own short term well being over the well being of those dear to him.

Also the substance itself can affect the empathic abilities which are vital in a marriage. Speaking of alcohol it does that on two different time scales.  [ ]. And over the years of heavy drinking, incremental brain damage makes the incapacity permanent.

Hence I believe that you may be dealing with a person who doesn't properly care for you, and is gradually losing his ability to care more and more.

 

When you speak about your marriage here , you seem to hold a realistic view: "don't see how that's going to happen".

I don't see any indicators of a good turnaround either  

Which means that you're not ready to move out yet.

(I apologize if these words make you cry. I'm trying to be respectful and thoughful in my writing, but sugar coating my words won't help you)

Yes it is. Because these boundaries give you something firm to hold on to. I would even recommend writing your boundaries down as statements like "I will never accept ..." (short term red line) and "For the rest of my life, I expect at least ..." (long term red line). And memorize these statements.

So many times when people are involved with addicted or other types of boundary crossing people, they tend to shift their own boundaries incrementally. And slowly lose themselves in the process. 

As additional advice I want to suggest that you confide with a female friend and ask her to help you in choosing your boundaries. After years in an unhealthy relationship the "north pole" of you emotional compass may be out of whack. Could you still say what is "normal" in how married people treat their spouses? Not what is utopic and perfect, but more like a real-world kind of "this is what you should expect"? If that question is hard, use a friend to help you. And keep coming to this forum.

This is a stereotypical statement of an abused woman. You know this is out of whack, right?

I think we will be speaking about exit planning here soon.

 

I was hoping that me and my husband could fall back in love. I've talked to him many times about his needing to stop the substance abuse, but I can't see him doing that. I guess that he thinks that I need to live with it. I told him that he's dependent on it. 

He says that he loves me, but keeps acting the same way. I work at night and he works during the day. I want that shift, so I don't have to be around him. I feel sort of bad about it, but he won't change. When I have to be around him a lot, I get down. 

You're not making me cry, you are thoughtful and respectful in your writing. I appreciate it and your insight. 

I need boundaries, but if he crosses them, I'm not ready to leave yet. I think I have lost myself in the process. I feel helpless. 

I'll try to get help setting boundaries, I don't think that I have too high expectations. I know things are out of whack. 

I may need to get an exit plan

[lftbehind]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Don't waste your time looking into him too much. You both know it's a fling, so the answer won't matter much.

Since you don't want to divorce, ask your husband about an open relationship or legal separation. Maybe he is having affairs as well?

 

I'm not going to spend money looking into him. I still would like to know the truth. 

Not sure what I'm going to do about my husband. I've sometimes wondered if he has had affairs in the past. I know that he was talking to other women behind my back. 

[lftbehind]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

He’s not your boyfriend, he is under no obligation to communicate with you on the weekend. He gets what he wants when he sees you and then he goes home - probably to his family… That’s what this pattern of communication says to me. He is busy and you are forgotten on the weekend. 

He's not under an obligation, but it's courtesy. You're right about the assessment of the situation, but the reality does hurt. 

[lftbehind]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Most definitely if you are looking to an extramarital affair partner to be a good, solid relationship partner. Affairs are about wanting what you can’t have, stealing whatever time you can have together, dealing with the disappointment and loneliness when you are not together… They occur most often when two unavailable and often unhealthy people come together… because healthy people who are available and looking for a legit relationship tend not to chose unavailable, married relationship partners. None of this lends itself to a “good, solid relationship.”

You're right that's what affairs are. You don't think of them that way when you are with your AP and having a good time, but the reality hits when you're not together and real life is happening. It's bad when you'd rather be with AP, but it's not possible. 

[lftbehind]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

It looks like you are just as abusive to your husband as he is to you.  Probably the reason for his anger and substance abuse stems from the pain he feels knowing his wife is having sex with other men.  Even if he's never found out about your affairs he probably feels them and knows something is off with you that you won't come clean about.  You don't love your husband but won't leave unless you have another man waiting for you.  In otherwords, you can't live without a man.  You could pick up an extra job if you really wanted to be free of him.

He has been abusing substances before he met me, I didn't cause it. He has also been abusive to me before I had an affair. I never thought that I would have and affair, I thought that they were very bad. I don't have to have another man waiting for me, but I know that I don't make enough money to leave. I can't physically work more that I'm working. 

[Will am I]

31 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

I was hoping that me and my husband could fall back in love. I've talked to him many times about his needing to stop the substance abuse, but I can't see him doing that. I guess that he thinks that I need to live with it. I told him that he's dependent on it. 

He says that he loves me, but keeps acting the same way. I work at night and he works during the day. I want that shift, so I don't have to be around him. I feel sort of bad about it, but he won't change. When I have to be around him a lot, I get down. 

You're not making me cry, you are thoughtful and respectful in your writing. I appreciate it and your insight. 

I need boundaries, but if he crosses them, I'm not ready to leave yet. I think I have lost myself in the process. I feel helpless. 

I'll try to get help setting boundaries, I don't think that I have too high expectations. I know things are out of whack. 

I may need to get an exit plan

You are one step further than I anticipated. You already know where this is going. You know that the situation in your marriage is not how you will accept it for the rest of your life and your spouse refuses to take ownership for his part for the much needed change. So you know where things are headed. You can read posts from people telling you that your marriage is headed for divorce and not break into tears anymore.

You have a considerable amount of time without your husband around. Invest that time in a close friendship with a (female) friend you can trust. Building the friendship, getting your emotional compass straight, working on your boundaries, working on an exit plan and making the preparations accordingly. It will take a significant amount of time.

Don't spend all your time and energy on your affair.

A confronting thought that I would like to challenge you with: the affair is your narcotic, just like alcohol is your husband's. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, lftbehind said:

I know that I don't make enough money to leave

What are you going to do if your husband finds out and leaves you? Where are going to go, and how will you afford to live? As long as you keep this affair up, you need to think about this. 

1 hour ago, lftbehind said:

He's not under an obligation, but it's courtesy.

But that's just it - he doesn't care about being courteous to you. That's not what this arrangement is about. He attends to you only when he's in your vicinity. When you're not, you don't exist in his life. Being courteous isn't as important to him as hiding you from whomever he's hiding you from. He's trying to keep that life intact. You just aren't his priority. 

[lftbehind]

8 hours ago, Will am I said:

I don't think this affair is a solution to OP's problems either. I don't think it is even intended to be some sort of solution. What I see is a woman desperate for some support, love and affirmation, yielding to a guy who's being inappropriately sweet to her. 

Understandable? Yes. Smart? Probably not.

There seems to be nothing right about this affair, except for the fact that it's helping OP cope in the short term. But sustaining this affair longer... I see so many chances for more trouble and heartbreak. Just to name a few:

1. Staying in the affair can lengthen the current status quo of unhappiness and guilt. It takes away precious time during which OP could work on her own healing and subsequently build a good new life partnership with a new spouse.

2. The affair can cause the situation at home to blow up (especially if it comes out). There is a real risk that OP could become a domestic violence victim. In this scenario she will end up in an emergency separation. For the healing process it is probably better if the decision to divorce is based on rational and long term considerations. 

3. Because of the affair, OP is losing the moral highground in a divorce. An attribute which can make divorce easier to swallow. Knowing that you were blameless and gave it your best, it must make it easier to turn the page.

4. The behaviour of the afair partner (keeping the affair in the shadows and strictly limited to his time at OP's company) has raised strong suspicions that the me may have a significant other at his home out of state. If this is true, the affair is also causing damage over there.

 

Most importantly and from personal experience: the infatiation of an affair is bad for your mental clarity. When you're seriously considering a divorce, you need all the clarity you can get.

Thanks, Will am I, I am desperate for support, love an affirmation. OM is probably taking advantage of my needing that. 

It's definitely not smart 

1. I do need to work on my own life and not worry about how OM is treating me. It does take my energy up.

2. I might be better to divorce, if I can work it out. I still care for my husband, though. I need to end the affair, though. 

3. I definitely don't want for my husband to have the moral high ground. I hate to think how he would treat me, then. 

4. OM won't tell me the truth, so there's no way of knowing if I'm hurting anyone else. I don't want to. 

The affair is bad for my mental clarity. Sometimes I feel a little crazy worrying about the problems that I have and about how he's treating me. I'm tired of worrying about how he's being, I don't need the stress. 

 

 

I

[lftbehind]

49 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What are you going to do if your husband finds out and leaves you? Where are going to go, and how will you afford to live? As long as you keep this affair up, you need to think about this. 

But that's just it - he doesn't care about being courteous to you. That's not what this arrangement is about. He attends to you only when he's in your vicinity. When you're not, you don't exist in his life. Being courteous isn't as important to him as hiding you from whomever he's hiding you from. He's trying to keep that life intact. You just aren't his priority. 

I want to end the affair. 

I know he doesn't care about being courteous to me. That's why I need to break it off with him. I really don't need to be treated so poorly. 

[lftbehind]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

You are one step further than I anticipated. You already know where this is going. You know that the situation in your marriage is not how you will accept it for the rest of your life and your spouse refuses to take ownership for his part for the much needed change. So you know where things are headed. You can read posts from people telling you that your marriage is headed for divorce and not break into tears anymore.

You have a considerable amount of time without your husband around. Invest that time in a close friendship with a (female) friend you can trust. Building the friendship, getting your emotional compass straight, working on your boundaries, working on an exit plan and making the preparations accordingly. It will take a significant amount of time.

Don't spend all your time and energy on your affair.

A confronting thought that I would like to challenge you with: the affair is your narcotic, just like alcohol is your husband's. 

 

I don't know how I would take the step of telling my husband that I want a divorce. I would rather work it out. I don't have close friends, just acquaintances. 

I want to end the affair. Worrying about it is adding extra stress that I don't need. I don't like worrying about the way that he's treating me. He probably is treating me well to get what he wants from me. When he wants to ignore me, he does. I feel foolish. 

The affair can be a narcotic to me. 

[ExpatInItaly]

10 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

I really don't need to be treated so poorly. 

He's not really treating your poorly, though. I think he's just treating you the way affair partners are often treated - as afterthoughts. 

It's not his job to tend to your emotional needs and make you feel good, OP.  

[Will am I]

@OP: all I and others did was to show you a mirror based on the bits of information you provided. You must have already known it all on the inside. All the mirror is doing is to make the picture clearer.

The only thing you lack now is the confidence to start acting. 

 

About “afterthoughts”: I guess it varies. Maybe a lot of people just have affairs for fun, without much consideration for AP’s feelings.

Personally I don’t recognize it though. I developed rather strong feelings for “my” OW. We would have these long and deep conversations when she was struggling. Romance was a big factor in the relationship, but connecting and caring feelings were bigger.  

[Wiseman2]

43 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

The affair can be a narcotic to me. 

Have you considered support groups for yourself? Such as Sex Addicts Anonymous (SAA)  a twelve-step program  for people who want to stop their addictive sexual behavior:

https://saa-recovery.org/am-i-a-sex-addict/self-assessment/

[BaileyB]

7 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I need boundaries, but if he crosses them, I'm not ready to leave yet.

What’s the sense in having boundaries if you are not willing to enforce them?

7 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I work at night and he works during the day. I want that shift, so I don't have to be around him.

You are practicing avoidance in order to live with your emotionally abusive and alcoholic husband. 

6 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I know that I don't make enough money to leave.

Find a lawyer and get a free consultation. You should be entitled to spousal support, child support (if you have children), and half the assets squires during the marriage (including the home). Educate yourself - don’t assume that you will walk away with nothing because that’s likely not true. 

4 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I might be better to divorce, if I can work it out. I still care for my husband, though.

If there is one thing that you could do for yourself today, go to an Al-Anon meeting. You didn’t cause your husband alcoholism but you also won’t cure it either. You do need to divorce - if you are working nights to avoid spending time with your husband, it’s time to divorce. Honestly, I can’t imagine how you could still hold affection for the man. 

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I don't know how I would take the step of telling my husband that I want a divorce. I would rather work it out.

Considering the fact that the only person you control is yourself and you are 1/2 if a marriage - how exactly are you going to “work it out” with your emotionally abusive, alcoholic husband? You’ve tried to tell him to stop drinking in the past and that hasn’t worked? You don’t have any influence on the man, that’s why you have decided to simply avoid him. So, how exactly do you think that you will be able to work this out? 

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I really don't need to be treated so poorly. 

Then you had beat find another man who is an actual boyfriend, not an affair partner. 

Truthfully, you would do well to get yourself some. Outselling if possible and take some time to be single. You’ve picked two very unhealthy men/relationships here and that should be very concerning for you - moving forward, you will want to develop your own self worth and require more from the men you date/any future relationships. 

Honestly, I would rather be single forever than with either of these men. This is not healthy for you and it will wear you down the longer it continues…

[basil67]

9 hours ago, lftbehind said:

He's not under an obligation, but it's courtesy. You're right about the assessment of the situation, but the reality does hurt. 

The kind of courtesy you're looking for is owed to a partner who's committed to him.   You are not his wife, not his girlfriend and you are married to someone else.  The rules of affairs are that you come second and are not owed explanations or courtesy.   About the only thing he owes you is to make sure all sex is consensual. 

 

[BaileyB]

45 minutes ago, basil67 said:

About the only thing he owes you is to make sure all sex is consensual. 

And that’s quite literally the only thing he wants or expects in return - as evidenced by the way that he disappears for extended periods of time…

Women are so quick to ascribe emotions to sex. I’m thinking about a poster once OP who had been in a workplace affair for something like 8-10 years. Her affair partner had quite literally never texted her or seen her outside of work hours, they only ever had sex in his office or in the car/outside, and it was very rarely sex - usually just oral sex. And still, she stalked his wife’s social media and was deeply disturbed by pictures of their family and their vacations… because, she was sure that he was the love of her life and he was going to one day leave his wife to be with his affair partner. Delusion, is the only word for it. Despite all evidence to the contrary, this woman was sure that they were soul mates destined to be together… Completely unwilling or unable to accept that for him - it was just a quick and convenient way for him to get a release at work. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

10 hours ago, Will am I said:

About “afterthoughts”: I guess it varies. Maybe a lot of people just have affairs for fun, without much consideration for AP’s feelings.

Personally I don’t recognize it though. I developed rather strong feelings for “my” OW.

Yes, in your case. I don't get the impression the same is true for OP's Other Man, though. 

[lftbehind]

12 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

He's not really treating your poorly, though. I think he's just treating you the way affair partners are often treated - as afterthoughts. 

It's not his job to tend to your emotional needs and make you feel good, OP.  

I guess you are right, generally. 

No, it's not his job. 

[lftbehind]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yes, in your case. I don't get the impression the same is true for OP's Other Man, though. 

I think that he has some feelings for me, but he probably has another life that I don't know about