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I feel like my wife is slipping away from me


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Husband 339

Story is long as hell and I don’t really know if I have questions at the end of it.

Wife and I have been together around 10 years. We have similar outlooks on life and, when we first met, got on like a house on fire. We had a very active and passionate sex life. I fell in love with her very quickly- it took her longer to get more serious about our relationship. We’ve mostly been very happy since being married. Things did start to feel more comfortable and less passionate but I think we both felt this was normal development of the relationship with time. We don’t (and won’t) have kids.

Over the last year or so things have declined though- we don’t connect as well as we used to. We get to travel a lot and when we are away, with no home responsibilities, we still connect very well and have a great time with each other. But once home and set in routines we have started spending more time on individual hobbies/ with different friend groups and less time on joint activities. Time together has been more and more just hanging out at home, watching tv etc. sex life has dwindled and become mundane. 

My wife finally came to me, saying that she was feeling this happen and worrying that things were going downhill. We had briefly mentioned parts of this previously but never truly talked about how important this is. She came to me describing the issue, but didn’t really know what we should do about it. Obviously we have argued or had issues at times over 10 years but this was the first time she seemed unsure as to whether we would make it. 

I think I need to put more effort into both our relationship and the way I take care of myself. I’m always in shape but I’m also always underdressed, not always as social as I should be. I’ve never really planned dates and she is always the one who makes plans/injects excitement into our relationship. If it were left to me our lives would be fairly unspectacular. I’ve never been a romantic but I barely surprise her or buy gifts at all nowadays. I need to work hard on this. 

I think she needs to try to be more present when we are together. I feel like she is always on her phone- she is incredibly social and so is always hearing from friends. But she will also sit and browse social media persistently, and in a way which I think comes between us. 

I am desperate to make our relationship work. I love her as strongly now as ever, and on the occasions I feel like we do connect, and she tells me that she loves me, it’s still the greatest feeling in the world. I can’t imagine life without her. Admittedly I didn’t realize how strongly I felt this way until she sat me down and talked about the issues. I had felt the same process happening but until she sat us down to talk about it I hadn’t done much about it. When she did, I suddenly felt terrified that I was going to lose her, and horrified that I didn’t work harder on our relationship before. 

Complicating things is the fact that just before we had this conversation she began to develop a very close relationship with a male acquaintance/friend we had each met just a few times up until that point. Now they text most of the day every day. When I’m working or away they will almost always be together- sometimes alone with each other and sometimes with others. She admits that people have commented on how close they have become, and even that they have talked about how weird it is, after they found themselves in situations that seemed romantic and, per my wife, felt awkward given that she swears that they are only friends. 

We have talked about this, and my wife knows that I am tearing myself up- worried about losing her and feeling jealous of her new relationship. I am really torn on how to deal with all of this. My initial reaction wasn’t good. I have never had any issue with jealousy in the past- not in this relationship or any other. She has always proven herself trustworthy.  But I became incredibly emotional and jealous. I cried frequently. I read her messages and stayed up nights worrying about our relationship (this, understandably, made her very angry). My mental health really suffered. I’ve led a fairly sheltered life and this month has truly been the worst of my life. 

I’m torn as to how to deal with it. When I initially raised concerns about her new relationship she reassured me they were just friends and didn’t change anything. Then, after initially lying to me about an awkwardly romantic situation which had arisen between the two of them, she became more honest. she seemed upset; at least upset that her actions were hurting me. She said she wouldn’t see him any more. I told her this wasn’t necessary, and that a middle ground compromise could be found. We didn’t make any formal promises/agreements but it really felt like we were on the same page.

2 days later, though, she brought the subject up again. She said that, since she feels their relationship is pure friendship, her only crime is making a new friend. She started to say crazy things, eg - ‘since making friends is causing such problems, I just won’t ever make friends again. I’m married after all- I do need to have priorities’.

She does always make friends incredibly easily. She truly brings people together and really lights a room up. One of the things I love so much about her is that she can talk to anyone about anything, and can turn any situation into a good time. She really is special in that regard.

So I’m torn about how to deal with things. 

On the one hand I want to trust her. We have always given each other space to have hobbies/friendships outside of the relationship. I want to continue to do so. If she is really being genuine when she talks about scaling back all friendships, I do not want to be somebody who tries to curb the very qualities that made me fall in love with her. Additionally, I’ve not seen hard evidence there is anything more than friendship between them, and maybe I’ve just been freaking out over a relationship that would never have bothered me if things had been going well between us. So, as of now, I have told her that she should continue to be friends with him, doing whatever they like together (obviously within the bounds of friendship) and I will work on making myself ok with it. She is very stubborn/independent and sometimes I feel that this is a good opportunity for me to prove that I can trust her again and make her comfortable to make friends, be herself etc. I know historically she has always valued the fact that I haven’t tried to infringe on her independence, and I’ve always given her space to make friends, have hobbies or take trips without feeling like I have to be there constantly. 

On the other hand, I have been finding this very hard. When she freaked out, saying that she would have to stop making friends altogether, I told her not to change her relationship, or to put curbs on her actions because of me, and she hasn’t. Im out of the country right now (she was supposed to come with me but, with these recent events she chose to stay behind instead) and she has taken a trip with him and a girlfriend of hers (who he barely knows). She had planned the trip with the girlfriend. She didn’t need to invite him- it’s not the same group of friends- but she did. The days before, she hung out alone with him too. She has been going out drinking with him (and various others, but he is the only person who is always present recently when she goes out) until 3-4 in the morning. When she had lied to me about things with him previously we had quite specifically discussed her keeping me updated as to where they were when they are together, and texting or calling me when she gets home. We had also specifically discussed her taking a trip with him, and I had make clear how hard that would be for me to deal with (though I have since told her just to act and be herself and let me deal with my feelings about it). Now she has taken a trip with him without even asking how I feel about it, and she has been out with him every evening until the morning and didn’t update me at all. On the trip right now she will text me a message saying hi in the morning, or a couple sentences about what they’re doing only if they have forced downtime and she’s bored. When they are out for dinner and drinking late she ignores my messages. I’m away and I’ve been calling her daily, but now she’s away too she hasn’t called at all, or answered my call.

On the one hand I really do want her to feel completely safe to be herself and not worry about my jealousy. As I said, I told her to be herself and continue her friendship. So I really shouldn’t be mad that she is doing so. I love her for her strength and independence and i really don’t want to hobble that. I’ve been trying hard to be ok with her spending all this time with him, and it doesn’t hurt me to think about the way it did before. I’m not sure, though, if I’ve just numbed myself to it or if I’m truly more ok with it than I was. 

One thing that makes it more difficult is that she has not been responding as positively as I had hoped to changes I’ve been trying to make to myself and our relationship. Attempts to look after myself more, wear nicer clothes, get my hair cut etc, she seems to either not react or make jokes- doesn’t react positively at all. When I’ve tried to switch around my schedule so that we get more time together she says that I’m overdoing things and she doesn’t want us to be together 24/7. Her body language at home is quite variable, sometimes acting as though things are improving but sometimes putting up clear barriers to any closeness or intimacy I try to develop. 

He is leaving town for good in around 6 weeks. So I’ve been telling myself I just need to get through these six weeks and at that point I will feel much better, and probably therefore be a better husband. Additionally, if their relationship is truly threatening ours (outside of just my reaction to it), then once he is gone she will be able to direct more attention towards our relationship again. The one thing I’ve really never been is angry at her for developing this relationship with him. Even if it is more than friendship I can understand how this can happen given that we had allowed our emotional and physical intimacy to slip. The only time I’ve been annoyed was when she admitted to lying about things they’d done together/places they’d been. 

On the other hand, I am hurting badly right now, and I’m not sure I can take it for another 6 weeks. What keeps playing on my mind is that she knows how hard this has been for me. She knows I’ve been depressed and anxious and haven’t slept. She knows this is the first time I’ve ever felt any of these things- I’m normally very stable, to the point of sometimes wishing I could be more emotional/passionate about things. And yet she took this trip with him despite us talking in the past about how hard I would find it if she went away with him again. She goes out til 4am with him and doesn’t text me until the next day. I feel like she is valuing her time with him much higher than her relationship with me, and higher than my mental health. I feel like she doesn’t care at this point how her actions are affecting me. I should point out that this has never been the case before- she is usually quite considerate. 

I do think that if she cut down on time with him she would have more time/space to concentrate on our relationship. And I think that they have become so close that, even if they aren’t romantic, that bond is leaving less space for ours. However, I’m scared to bring this up because she has, understandably, grown frustrated with talking about the issue. I’m never normally emotional but for a period we had conversations every day where I (and usually her) will end up crying and we talk and get upset for hours without ever really coming to a conclusion. She is sick of this now, and I’m worried that the more I bring it up the more of wedge I drive between us, and I’m going to lose her if I keep going. I’m terrified of losing her over my reaction to a relationship which may be entirely friendly. I would hate myself for that. 

On the other hand, even if they are just friends, I feel like she is being so callous now that I wonder if she really cares about our relationship anymore. I sometimes think if she truly cared about me still then she would send a quick text whilst on a night out, or would not have invited him on what had previously been their girls trip. I worry I’m going to go through 6 weeks of emotional hell and then find that she has distanced herself too much and I’ll lose her anyway.

So I don’t know what to do. Currently I’m just trying hard to get through these 6 weeks. I do know that if I get through it, and things work out, I will be incredibly happy that I did. I really would give anything for us to be back at our best again. 

But, even though the suffering may be entirely self imposed, I really am finding this to be the hardest time of my life. I’m hurting every day, wondering if she knows that spending so much time with him is hurting me and is doing it anyway, or whether she hasn’t even taken the time to consider the effect on me. The latter would be unlike her. I worry that if she can care so little about me right now, our chances of improving things may be slim. At the same time she may just be genuinely following my advice to continue their friendship. If I broke up with her and later somehow found out they were only friends, and we would have made it, I would be devastated. 

I don’t know what to do. I am deeply in love with her and can’t bear the thought of losing her, but I’m really struggling to find a fix

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You are being squeezed out.

she knows it - she just won’t admit it.

id suggest sitting her down and saying if she doesn’t cut off contact with him - it will kill your marriage.

quit being passive about it! Another man has entered your marriage and taking over your wife/her time/her interest! That’s why she isn’t as interested in you like before - all her energy is going toward him - possibly sex too. Yep, I’m a woman - and my spidey senses say she’s totally cheating on you.

you either put your foot down by having self respect - or you allow her to walk all over you!

start telling her the way she’s participating isn’t ok with you!

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stillafool

Your wife would not appreciate it if you were carrying on that way with another woman.  Remind her of that.  I'm really sorry that your wife is putting her friendship with this man before your marriage.  You can vent here as much as you want to.

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ExpatInItaly

Time to get real here, OP: Your wife is bascially dating someone else. 

Stop trying to make yourself okay with it. It's absolutely not okay, and she knows it. Find your voice and your self-respect, and tell her in no uncertain terms that this is inappropriate and it needs to stop if she expects to stay married to you. Stop letting her make you feel guilty for being upset that she's essentially carrying on an emotional affair right under your nose. Lay down your boundaries. 

7 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

I just need to get through these six weeks

Him being gone in 6 weeks is not going to fix this. The problem is that your wife is really checking out of your marriage and behaving in a terribly disrespectful and untrustworthy manner. If it weren't this man, it would have eventually been someone else. And unless and until you two deal with the real problems here, there will be someone else in the future too. 

These two are not just friends. And all of you know it. 

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Husband 339
4 hours ago, stillafool said:

Your wife would not appreciate it if you were carrying on that way with another woman.  Remind her of that.  I'm really sorry that your wife is putting her friendship with this man before your marriage.  You can vent here as much as you want to.

I think this is one of the things I find hardest. In 10 years she only became jealous of one friend of mine- wife saw a text I sent to her that she found suspicious. Whilst I understand why my wife didn’t like the text, there was really nothing going on (she and I had only ever met outside of work whilst my wife was present). 
 

she initially just seemed upset about the text but got over it. I saw this friend 1 or 2 more times (always in group setting) but it became clear my wife wasn’t happy and so I literally ghosted this friend. It was at a time she really needed a friend as she had some personal issues. 
 

so now when I compare her actions (no compromise) to mine- ghosting somebody who really needed a friend, it makes me feel like a chump. Like I’m willing to sacrifice and she is not

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Husband 339
3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

If it weren't this man, it would have eventually been someone else. And unless and until you two deal with the real problems here, there will be someone else in the future too.

I get this and I guess I was hoping that once he is out of the picture we would have some space to work on things. But I’m wondering the same thing you’re saying- if she’s not willing to work on things now, who says she will be once he’s gone?

 

I also just have difficulty being sure about the situation. I definitely over reacted to certain things at first. I remember coming home one day after she had been hanging out with him and I was (in my head only) looking at everything in our apartment and jumping to crazy conclusions over the dumbest of what I was feeling were clues. Objectively I know that evening I had to check myself as I would have caused massive issues over the dumbest things. 

so now i worry that when I do bring something up it will drive us apart, and maybe it’s all over nothing

 

 

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Husband 339
6 hours ago, S2B said:

You are being squeezed out.

she knows it - she just won’t admit it.

id suggest sitting her down and saying if she doesn’t cut off contact with him - it will kill your marriage.

quit being passive about it! Another man has entered your marriage and taking over your wife/her time/her interest! That’s why she isn’t as interested in you like before - all her energy is going toward him - possibly sex too. Yep, I’m a woman - and my spidey senses say she’s totally cheating on you.

you either put your foot down by having self respect - or you allow her to walk all over you!

start telling her the way she’s participating isn’t ok with you!

I feel like doing this sometimes but haven’t found a time yet where I have both the certainty in my suspicions and the balls to do it. 
 

I guess I can just approach it as saying even if there is nothing happening the effect on our marriage is real, and I want her to work with me on this

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ExpatInItaly
1 minute ago, Husband 339 said:

maybe it’s all over nothing

It's not nothing. 

Dude, she is going out drinking with him until all hours. Having holidays with him. (and make no mistake, these outings are between them - the others present are just there so it's not completely obvious what they are doing) They talk all the time. That is not the behaviour of a woman who is "just friends" with a guy. I am woman with a couple good male friends myself and these two are definitely not just platonic buds. 

Your marriage is in trouble. And your wife is letting that happen. Think about that. 

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Husband 339
2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

It's not nothing. 

Dude, she is going out drinking with him until all hours. Having holidays with him. (and make no mistake, these outings are between them - the others present are just there so it's not completely obvious what they are doing) They talk all the time. That is not the behaviour of a woman who is "just friends" with a guy. I am woman with a couple good male friends myself and these two are definitely not just platonic buds. 

Your marriage is in trouble. And your wife is letting that happen. Think about that. 

I feel this way sometimes, and sometimes I feel sure of it.

but she does have a ton of very close male friends from before we met. She only has a couple of close girlfriends. So then I get in my head thinking that maybe this is just her norm- and for various reasons (pandemic, frequent moving etc) it’s just the first time since we’ve been together. 
 

down on paper, and all from my perspective, though, it does seem pretty suspicious

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ExpatInItaly
1 minute ago, Husband 339 said:

So then I get in my head thinking that maybe this is just her norm

Not when she's also told you that the marriage is going downhill. 

That's the difference. 

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I agree with what others have said. She is disrespecting your marriage and you. Remind her about how you ghosted a woman friend for her. You chose her and your marriage over a friend, and were happily willing to do so, and yet, not only has she not given up this "friend" for you - she's actually going away on trips with him! That's not okay. Let's say she has cheated on you (which I think she has), do you want to save your marriage knowing she betrayed you like that, after you gave her MUCH more freedom in your relationship than most would be willing to give? If so, part of saving your marriage includes her putting you FIRST, before all her friends. If she is not willing to do this, then you need to decide if you want to stay in a marriage with someone who does not prioritize you the way you prioritize her. Also, don't allow her to gaslight you into thinking this is YOUR problem. There is nothing wrong with your concerns. They are all founded in fact. 

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Do you think she's cheating? There seems to be two things going on that are somewhat related.

One is coasting along in the marriage in a rut and letting yourself go.

The other is that she's dating this guy.

Ultimatums do not work. You could try suggesting marriage therapy to get the cards on the table and start an honest dialogue with the guidance of a professional.

 

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13 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

When she freaked out, saying that she would have to stop making friends altogether, I told her not to change her relationship, or to put curbs on her actions because of me, and she hasn’t.

That's a passive aggressive reaction.

Can I rephrase the conversation?

You: don't be so friendly with this guy (I feel he's pushing himself into our marriage)

She: so now I can't have friends anymore?

This is not showing any sign that she might want to end the friendship for the benefit of her marriage or the peace of mind of her husband. So why is it so importatnt to keep him around? Maybe she's in love with the other guy and she's being protective of these feelings, hoping to linger in the infatuation some more. Or maybe she feels she's sacrificed enough for you, and chosen to stop making sacrifices for you. Very different reasons, but either way it's not good news for you.

 

13 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

Im out of the country right now (she was supposed to come with me but, with these recent events she chose to stay behind instead) and she has taken a trip with him and a girlfriend of hers (who he barely knows). She had planned the trip with the girlfriend.

So you got into some relationship troubles and now she's pulling back from you. I believe that relationships can survive pretty much anything as long as both partners keep committing to the relationship. The moment one partner stops committing is the beginning of the end.

What makes it a hundred times worse is that she added the other guy to her trip. I truly believe she is cheating on you now.

Let me guess: the female friend is in her circle of friends and not in yours? Hence she wouldn't tell you if she saw anything inappropriate going on.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

On the one hand I really do want her to feel completely safe to be herself and not worry about my jealousy.

This isn’t about you OP.

Being a good partner means respecting and loving your partner enough NOT to do things that cause your partner pain. You are in tears over this relationship - she knows it - and she continues to engage with the man anyway. That’s not ok.

Your wife is not respecting you and your marriage. She is not protecting your marriage by maintaining a healthy boundary with this man. She is behaving very inappropriately and you have every right to be upset. 

If you look at it not from the lens of “she is very social, I don’t want to tell her who she should be friends with, she should have the freedom to do whatever she wants” but rather “is this respecting and protecting something that she says she values - our marriage” - her decision should be pretty clear. 

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6 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

I get this and I guess I was hoping that once he is out of the picture we would have some space to work on things.

They are likely to stay in connect by text/phone/video/messaging app. He will continue to intrude on your marriage if she allows it. 

6 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

maybe it’s all over nothing

Your wife is in a relationship with another man. That’s something, you are not wrong to be upset about this. 

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Husband 339
3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

Do you think she's cheating? There seems to be two things going on that are somewhat related.

 

I honestly don’t believe that she would continue a sexual relationship with him or anybody behind my back. I honestly believe that if things were at that point she would break up with me. Not saying I can’t believe anything could happen between them, but I suspect she’d dump me pretty quickly if that’s went that far. 
 

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

Let me guess: the female friend is in her circle of friends and not in yours?

Yeah pretty much. To be fair she invited him and another girl, they are kind of a group of three friends. But she couldn’t come and he could. But I guess I would have hoped that she would have invited the girl first, and once she said yes invited him. But this is exactly the kind of restriction/barrier she seems to find unacceptable.

 

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

They are likely to stay in connect by text/phone/video/messaging app. He will continue to intrude on your marriage if she allows it.

This is true. Once he’s gone, the day she tells me she is going away to visit him (or they plan another trip somewhere else) will be a bad day

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@Husband 339: She has disconnected from you, that's why she's able to invest all of her energy in this man. It's over, and you'll be the  last one to get the memo. Honestly, I find you to be 'soft' toward the disrespect she's showing you. I don't know many men who would put up with a fraction of what she's doing. 

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7 minutes ago, Husband 339 said:

she would break up with me. Not saying I can’t believe anything could happen between them, but I suspect she’d dump me pretty quickly if that’s went that far. 

Are you married? Do you have children? How old is she? 

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Your wife's been very disrespectful. Put your foot down and stop doing the "pick  me" dance. She's having an emotional affair.

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16 minutes ago, Husband 339 said:

Yeah pretty much. To be fair she invited him and another girl, they are kind of a group of three friends. But she couldn’t come and he could. But I guess I would have hoped that she would have invited the girl first, and once she said yes invited him. But this is exactly the kind of restriction/barrier she seems to find unacceptable.

In young couples this must be a very common struggle: how much of "my own space" do I still have, to which extent does my partner control who I hang out with, can I still have my own friends etc. I think the most common pattern here is the man pushing the boundaries to keep some of his freedom and indepencence, while the woman is seeking to reduce that personal space in favour of more "together space".

But you have been together for 10 years, by that time the rules should be have long been established and both partners should have long settled into the rules. What we are looking at here is one of the partners trying to renegotiate the rules and expand her personal space. Ten years into the marriage that occurs to me as atypical.

 

Either she's fallen in love and wants to push for more time and opportunity with her new lover.

Or she's decided that she will no longer be pushed around / restricted / limited / told what to do by her husband.

 

Of course she'd never admit an affair. But you can be nice and understanding, ask her about how she has been feeling about the independence and freedom and her porition in the marriage, and depending on her answers maybe eliminate explanation 2.

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The conditions of the relationship seem to have prompted the formation of an inappropriate friendship as a reaction to these difficulties. 

The problem here is, rather than you and your wife coming together, your wife has chosen to emotionally step outside when she needs support, validation, or connection, rather than you coming together. 

The way I see it, if your wife values being in a loving, committed, and monogamous marriage that stands the test of time, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to reduce risks that could potentially harm her relationship.

That's not what she's doing.

"Getting over this" would only mean being pushed to the side and becoming an afterthought in your own home.

It's a shame that most of the things she has to say is that she's not doing anything wrong, and that there's something wrong with you for noticing all the changes. In this case, you deserve better and you should leave. She knows she’s not prioritizing you. It's not that you aren't explaining it well. It's not that you are misunderstanding it. She is doing it on purpose and pretending it to be something else besides what it is and to make you feel insecure and confused as well as like you have no right to expect any type of care or attention from the woman you love.

 

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stillafool
11 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

so now when I compare her actions (no compromise) to mine- ghosting somebody who really needed a friend, it makes me feel like a chump. Like I’m willing to sacrifice and she is not

You did the right thing by letting that friend go.  Your wife needs to take the same action to make you comfortable. It's telling that she doesn't.

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ExpatInItaly
5 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

But this is exactly the kind of restriction/barrier she seems to find unacceptable

Well, yes, it ruins all her fun with her new guy. 

21 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

Now she has taken a trip with him without even asking how I feel about it

And this is completely mental. Is this the trip her female friend wasn't able to go on? And she just wound up with him? 

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mark clemson
8 hours ago, Husband 339 said:

I honestly don’t believe that she would continue a sexual relationship with him or anybody behind my back. I honestly believe that if things were at that point she would break up with me. Not saying I can’t believe anything could happen between them, but I suspect she’d dump me pretty quickly if that’s went that far.

My read is also that this is substantially more than just a normal "friendship". The bolded above gets stated fairly regularly on this site and turns out to be wrong perhaps half the time if not more, I'm afraid.

Throwing tantrums about not being able to have any friends (when that's not actually the case) is disingenuous. You should be the one along on this holiday, not this guy. IMO your wife is abusing the freedom you give her. Use logic to point out the inconsistency in her claim (you do allow friends).

To use a chess metaphor, as the spouse, you are a "king" - any one friend, particularly to someone who makes them easily, is a "pawn". As the "king" you should be able to ask for the sacrifice of any specific pawn. Thus you can quite reasonably ask that she end this particular friendship. If you wife chooses to sacrifice your well-being over the friend, it does beg the question of who is, now, the real "king" in her view.

You can't stop someone from doing what they choose to do. You can however "show spine" and unfortunately it sounds like that will become necessary (and perhaps should have been done sooner).

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On 7/3/2022 at 10:15 PM, Husband 339 said:

I feel like doing this sometimes but haven’t found a time yet where I have both the certainty in my suspicions and the balls to do it. 
 

I guess I can just approach it as saying even if there is nothing happening the effect on our marriage is real, and I want her to work with me on this

The only thing you need to be certain about is that your wife isn’t prioritizing you in the marriage - and that is causing harm to the marriage.

it sure looks that way. And if she won’t prioritize only you - tell her it’s over - you are done.

you don’t tell her she needs to work on it with you. You tell her if she doesn’t start acting like your wife every single day - then you are ending the marriage because you deserve the wife that made the vows to you!

she’s acting like a jerk and you are just standing there taking it. Stop doing that.

 

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