Thought my date went really well and got the 'no romantic connection' message after

[max3732]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes, breaking the 'touch barrier' will show that you're physically interested in them.  But this is about having them be interested in you - and touching them will not make this happen.  I sometimes wonder if the men who come up with this advice have any clue how women work.

I've seen this advice from some women as well.

I fully admit I don't have any clue how women work. I'm a high performance athlete, run my own business and am financially successful, very close to my family and some good friends, tons of hobbies and interests, very polite and well mannered, well traveled, etc. Apparently I'm of no romantic interest to these women.

18 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

She wasn’t attracted to you. Are there any women you’re not attracted to? If so, it’s like that. 

Of course, but I don't agree to go on dates with them. If I'm not attracted to ones I meet it's because of something about their values or personality

23 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

it goes back to my past comment on a prior thread…..who are you selecting to date?  Do you have a broken picker? Are you interested in people who fit a stereotype that also is common in those that are on the Cinderella/ princess storyline?  Do they view you as a different “class” in society or stereotype you based on your characteristics — maybe you come off as someone just looking for conquest/sex snd not love?

 

i have always approached online as a way to break the ice and slowly build this interaction up like in real life.  I never had expectations on  first meet romance.

What do you mean? I pick women who I find attractive and try to build something with them. You think I come across as too high class and they're intimidated? If anything I'm concerned I'm giving off a vibe of being too friendly. I'm just over 40 now and still a virgin. My profile on all the sites says I'm looking for marriage. I'd like to use online to break the ice and build up interactions, but apparently they don't.

21 hours ago, glows said:

No, I meant real friends.  I hope you don't mind but from the little you've written you may (or may not) have a very narrow view of women as individuals who need providing or special care. It's the golddiggers and users who will make use of this view so I can see why you may be concerned about attracting that type. 

Start with tweaking your thoughts about women a bit more and appreciating them for their intelligence and independence and you'll naturally attract that type of woman because those are the traits you're looking for. Avoid long stories during dates or monologues. Some people can hold an interested or neutral face without showing waning interest. Occasionally turn the conversation back to the other person and ask what they think on a certain topic that you're passionate about. You'll hear that person speak and gauge for yourself whether you have common interests or are compatible. If it's esoteric and obscure, explain a little more and move onto a different topic if they can't contribute to what you're saying. The key is looking for common ground and shared interests. 

If you're more of the strong/quiet or reserved type, work on those conversation skills and keep things positive or at least neutral. I think there are also a lot of individuals just don't have a clue what they're looking for in a partner or whether they want a relationship so leave room for that too. I wouldn't overthink this too much. You're seeing the person to determine whether they're a good match for you too. 

In general I can be a bit too generous and am concerned about golddiggers due to my financial situation and from stories I've heard from friends/relatives. I'd love to find a woman who is really intelligent. My preference would be ones that have a graduate degree, but that's not a deal breaker. 

I think maybe with the combination of something I'm passionate about and being nervous on the date might cause me to go on for too long. So I'll try and catch myself next time. 

Usually in a conversation I'm the strong/quiet type. I'd rather listen than talk a lot even though as I just mentioned I can talk about certain topics I'm really passionate about.

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

Of course, but I don't agree to go on dates with them. If I'm not attracted to ones I meet it's because of something about their values or personality

But that is probably exactly what happened...she either didn't like something about your values or personality.  OR in person your looks, mannerisms.

Also try not to filter "what YOU do" to what this ONE woman does....She might have gone out with you perhaps if she was only feeling marginally attracted physically or lukewarm; if she was hopeful and giving it/you a chance.

We probably have all met great and wonderful people...for someone else....meaning in spite of it looking like a good idea on paper or giving it a chance, there just isn't the spark that makes you want to take it further. 

If you look back on your own dating history, I'm sure you will find the same thing, similar examples where you had the same internal experience: should have liked them but for some reason didn't (often unexplainable reason).

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

I've seen this advice from some women as well.

I fully admit I don't have any clue how women work. I'm a high performance athlete, run my own business and am financially successful, very close to my family and some good friends, tons of hobbies and interests, very polite and well mannered, well traveled, etc. Apparently I'm of no romantic interest to these women.

Of course, but I don't agree to go on dates with them. If I'm not attracted to ones I meet it's because of something about their values or personality

What do you mean? I pick women who I find attractive and try to build something with them. You think I come across as too high class and they're intimidated? If anything I'm concerned I'm giving off a vibe of being too friendly. I'm just over 40 now and still a virgin. My profile on all the sites says I'm looking for marriage. I'd like to use online to break the ice and build up interactions, but apparently they don't.

In general I can be a bit too generous and am concerned about golddiggers due to my financial situation and from stories I've heard from friends/relatives. I'd love to find a woman who is really intelligent. My preference would be ones that have a graduate degree, but that's not a deal breaker. 

I think maybe with the combination of something I'm passionate about and being nervous on the date might cause me to go on for too long. So I'll try and catch myself next time. 

Usually in a conversation I'm the strong/quiet type. I'd rather listen than talk a lot even though as I just mentioned I can talk about certain topics I'm really passionate about.

I’m trying to help you succeed……

 

if your profile says youare successful and all they are are administrative support/ clerical in terms of career they might feel you are in a different class.  You talk about all your travel and adventure turns you off because they don’t like to travel.  Thry get an impression of your interests that they don’t like or have no common interest in.

 

for me I’m turned off by people who come off as very artsy or high brow.  Ire all a person in my high school class…she was very artsy and talked of a cousin or aunt who was a high profile person and she seemed to come from a family of wealth.  
 

you mentioned sbout only dating white people iirc. You don’t necessarily know how someone defines themselves given who their grand parents are. You might not realize the person is25% minority so thry might find offensive some things you say.

Make a profile list of women you have had dates with…

Categories for— age, profession, distance from you, had LTR/ married, have kids, want kids. Religion, are they from the area you live, what was unique topics talked about, how woukd you classify her by your impression on her style, did she like you or next you, did you like her.

 

As Verse  said above…..there might have bern something about you in what you said or actions that turns her off ( evrn an eye twitch or dhe noticed lopsided ear lobe).  Or she didn’t feel attracted to you because of looks or your voice was like chalk scratch.

 

if you haves close female friends you shoukd get advice from thrm on your quirks or mannerisms on a date or hav3 her go with you toa date to observe you.

 

 

 

[glows]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

I've seen this advice from some women as well.

I fully admit I don't have any clue how women work. I'm a high performance athlete, run my own business and am financially successful, very close to my family and some good friends, tons of hobbies and interests, very polite and well mannered, well traveled, etc. Apparently I'm of no romantic interest to these women.

Of course, but I don't agree to go on dates with them. If I'm not attracted to ones I meet it's because of something about their values or personality

What do you mean? I pick women who I find attractive and try to build something with them. You think I come across as too high class and they're intimidated? If anything I'm concerned I'm giving off a vibe of being too friendly. I'm just over 40 now and still a virgin. My profile on all the sites says I'm looking for marriage. I'd like to use online to break the ice and build up interactions, but apparently they don't.

In general I can be a bit too generous and am concerned about golddiggers due to my financial situation and from stories I've heard from friends/relatives. I'd love to find a woman who is really intelligent. My preference would be ones that have a graduate degree, but that's not a deal breaker. 

I think maybe with the combination of something I'm passionate about and being nervous on the date might cause me to go on for too long. So I'll try and catch myself next time. 

Usually in a conversation I'm the strong/quiet type. I'd rather listen than talk a lot even though as I just mentioned I can talk about certain topics I'm really passionate about.

It's not easy to find someone who shares the similar tastes in things or of similar/comparable background. Good relationships take awhile to develop and time. Not many people understand this and the vast majority of them happen to be on online dating apps as it's often used as a quick fix for a broken heart or a distraction. There are also people there you may ordinarily never meet in real life (and some may say for good reason too). 

Like the other comments, I also agree there's not much you could have done differently other than just being yourself and feeling comfortable being yourself. Physical touch isn't required on early dates. I personally don't like it and will interpret the other person as overly affectionate and inappropriate. 

[Ami1uwant]

35 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

But that is probably exactly what happened...she either didn't like something about your values or personality.  OR in person your looks, mannerisms.

Also try not to filter "what YOU do" to what this ONE woman does....She might have gone out with you perhaps if she was only feeling marginally attracted physically or lukewarm; if she was hopeful and giving it/you a chance.

We probably have all met great and wonderful people...for someone else....meaning in spite of it looking like a good idea on paper or giving it a chance, there just isn't the spark that makes you want to take it further. 

If you look back on your own dating history, I'm sure you will find the same thing, similar examples where you had the same internal experience: should have liked them but for some reason didn't (often unexplainable reason).

id really like to explore…as he said…there are women who wanted to date again and he didn’t want to…..vs……the ones he dated that they said no on a second date.

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said:

id really like to explore…as he said…there are women who wanted to date again and he didn’t want to…..vs……the ones he dated that they said no on a second date.

Yeah I think the idea that "well we were chatting and things seemed good, as if we matched on the app and chatting was going well" AS IF it means the "ATTRACTION" box is completely checked off and is in the past, is just not correct. It's a surface level of understanding of what attraction really is.  And that's without getting into the fact often people don't look like their photos, or don't sound like a person you'd be attracted to or when they come to life with movements/mannerisms etc, they are just not what you would be attracted to. 

It's not just a FIXED point in time, let's say when you swipe someone right as if you have a base level of attraction. That should be looked as just THE BEGINNING or AN OPPORTUNITY to explore further...By no means does it mean that attracted to each other for good, done with that part, nor does the checklist of activities and interests. I just don't get why some people act as if they are ordering up their instacart order or a new car online, as if it is just a collection of traits you can write down in a profile like an ingredient list and check it off with the photo--this mentality might be exactly why people are having problems in part. Think about it like this: if you show up on a first date with the belief in your head that you are getting the "goods/new car" you ordered, you are simply checking to make sure you got what you ordered--you treat the "transaction" as if it's sort of a fixed entity and just comparing checklists sort of. But if you don't treat things as fixed and more of starting point to explore or grow, you show up on the first date with more of an open mind to explore, express yourself & impress (in the right ways, etc). It's growing, it's just the beginning. (and keep in mind it also might go nowhere from either person's persepctive or other randomness). I think people will/do present themselves MUCH better with this attitude.  Otherwise, it seems like you are just there to kick the tires! Let's see, she said she was 5'7" (check), blonde (check) , fit (check), xyz job (check). Let's trade details: I'm this, that, whatever. It's sort of like the difference between IMPARTING information and truly making a connection (like just flowing with things). lol, i'm definitely not explaining well.

I agree with everyone (please notice how many women said this too!) that said: no touching her wouldn't have made the difference. If you don't create the environment, such as a good connection, where the touch is welcome, definitely she does NOT want you to touch her. You seem to have failed on making the good connection/chemistry with this girl---so you can't just jump to the part where you touch her as if some rote routine (pickup artist stuff) will make the difference. In fact, i would argue that if she was on the fence or lukewarm at all but willing for a second date, that NOT touching her on the first date but giving the connection/chemistry a chance to catch up by the next time would have been the right choice.

[max3732]

8 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

I’m trying to help you succeed……

 

if your profile says youare successful and all they are are administrative support/ clerical in terms of career they might feel you are in a different class.  You talk about all your travel and adventure turns you off because they don’t like to travel.  Thry get an impression of your interests that they don’t like or have no common interest in.

 

for me I’m turned off by people who come off as very artsy or high brow.  Ire all a person in my high school class…she was very artsy and talked of a cousin or aunt who was a high profile person and she seemed to come from a family of wealth.  
 

you mentioned sbout only dating white people iirc. You don’t necessarily know how someone defines themselves given who their grand parents are. You might not realize the person is25% minority so thry might find offensive some things you say.

Make a profile list of women you have had dates with…

Categories for— age, profession, distance from you, had LTR/ married, have kids, want kids. Religion, are they from the area you live, what was unique topics talked about, how woukd you classify her by your impression on her style, did she like you or next you, did you like her.

 

As Verse  said above…..there might have bern something about you in what you said or actions that turns her off ( evrn an eye twitch or dhe noticed lopsided ear lobe).  Or she didn’t feel attracted to you because of looks or your voice was like chalk scratch.

 

if you haves close female friends you shoukd get advice from thrm on your quirks or mannerisms on a date or hav3 her go with you toa date to observe you.

 

 

 

Appreciate your help!

Funny you mentioned artsy. The last 2 women (before this one) I went out with were both the artsy type and I'm starting to get the impression that might not be for me. 

Interesting idea about the profile list. Just FYI I'm intentionally trying to filter out some of the categories you listed (already having and not wanting kids) before the date so I don't waste either of our time, but there have been a few occasions where it's not listed on the profile and I've been surprised.

I think my impression of her, the topics, etc would be very interesting to try and remember. 

You mentioned eye twitch. On a video speed date something I noticed I do is blink excessively when I get nervous on dates and I don't know how to stop it from happening. I think I did that for a moment here and was able to relax and get it to stop

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, max3732 said:

 there have been a few occasions where it's not listed on the profile and I've been surprised.

It seems like you are looking for a unicorn. You have so many ridgid requirements.  Unless you are on the cover of the 'sexiest man alive' issue, you're going to have to come down to earth and be more accepting of others.

[ExpatInItaly]

Touching a woman who doesn’t feel attracted you to you is not going to make her feel anything but uncomfortable. 

The “touch barrier” thing only applies if there is existing mutual attraction. It doesn’t create a connection in and of itself. 

[balletomane]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

It seems like you are looking for a unicorn. You have so many ridgid requirements.  Unless you are on the cover of the 'sexiest man alive' issue, you're going to have to come down to earth and be more accepting of others.

This. I've mentioned this in Max's previous threads, but I think it bears repeating: a family-oriented woman who leans traditional/conservative and is willing to have kids with a man in his 40s is very likely to already have kids of her own. This is because 30-something women for whom children are a priority will probably have had them by this point in their life, and if they're back in the dating pool, it's because their previous relationship didn't work out for whatever reason. Childless women who are happy to start a family with a man over 40 are rare, and when you add Max's other caveats (must be Caucasian, no tattoos, etc.) they get rarer still.

[introverted1]

21 hours ago, max3732 said:

I'm just over 40 now and still a virgin

This is unusual.  You don't have to tell us here, but I think that whatever aspects of your personality led to this being the case are also playing a part in your dating life.

I think more analysis is needed on this front and less on the mechanics of online dating.

 

[max3732]

3 hours ago, introverted1 said:

This is unusual.  You don't have to tell us here, but I think that whatever aspects of your personality led to this being the case are also playing a part in your dating life.

I think more analysis is needed on this front and less on the mechanics of online dating.

 

What do you mean? I keep trying with dates like the one I just had and never seem to find someone to connect with like that. Lots of 1, 2 or 3 dates.  I've had 2 long term girlfriends in my life and didn't really try to start dating until I was 30 since I was busy with work.

[introverted1]

8 minutes ago, max3732 said:

What do you mean? I keep trying with dates like the one I just had and never seem to find someone to connect with like that. Lots of 1, 2 or 3 dates.  I've had 2 long term girlfriends in my life and didn't really try to start dating until I was 30 since I was busy with work.

It is unusual in the US for a man to be a virgin in his 40s. This is especially true since you say you've had 2 long-term girlfriends.  I don't know you and I don't want to make assumptions or guesses, but this is far enough outside the norm that my sense is that there is something else that is affecting your dating trajectory.  Something to think about.

[Ami1uwant]

5 hours ago, balletomane said:

This. I've mentioned this in Max's previous threads, but I think it bears repeating: a family-oriented woman who leans traditional/conservative and is willing to have kids with a man in his 40s is very likely to already have kids of her own. This is because 30-something women for whom children are a priority will probably have had them by this point in their life, and if they're back in the dating pool, it's because their previous relationship didn't work out for whatever reason. Childless women who are happy to start a family with a man over 40 are rare, and when you add Max's other caveats (must be Caucasian, no tattoos, etc.) they get rarer still.

I generally agree….

 

there are some exceptions if they also want a career and worked for their career in there 20s/ early 30s and now wants marriage and kids do exist. They are in larger cities and they might not match you4 political views/ values.

 

in general…many in their mid 30shave either been married or have kids.

 

When I was younger I dated people who had different political views but that was before you have the political divide.  About 7 yrs ago I met someone online.  I really did like her but she had very different political viewpoints that I could not get past.  Evrn now it’s a big deal breaker no matter how well chemistry is in dating.  It’s not blindly rejected their political definition but finding out what they really believe.

[Logo]

Sometimes people use the “No chemistry” excuse to avoid hurting others’ feelings or to avoid being honest about their intentions. It could be anything. 
 

Also, the best advice I ever got was to approach any date from the point of view of trying to figure out if they are what I’m looking for, not trying to be liked by them. I’m not saying that’s what happened here. I’m just mentioning that, in general. 
 

I have also learned to be as picky as other women are. What I mean is, a lot of women appear to be perfect at first glance. But ask yourself does she meet your criteria? Does she have the emotional intelligence you’re looking for, the qualities you’re looking for?

Once you approach it from that perspective, you will be more confident than the woman, and you’ll read the signs and her signals better. 
 

 

[dnd_girl]

"She was asking me a lot of follow up questions and laughed at my jokes and there weren't really any awkward pauses. Some of my other dates the woman has been a bit guarded or she didn't seem like she was that much fun."

Ok, I apologise if I'm way off the mark here, but out of the three dates I've been on, on two of them, I just ended up asking question after question to keep the conversation going, while the guys just went on about themselves.

They were kind of shocked when it didn't go any further, saying similar stuff you did "you asked questions, there were no awkward pauses etc" - yeah, cos I put in a stupid amount of effort to make sure there weren't.

This may not at all be the case with your date, so I apologise if that's the case, but might be worth thinking about. If you're noticing how many questions she asked, she may have felt like she's keeping the conversation going, asking about you, you're talking about yourself, then waiting for the next question.

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by i_have_questions
adding a word I'd missed

[Ami1uwant]

1 hour ago, i_have_questions said:

"She was asking me a lot of follow up questions and laughed at my jokes and there weren't really any awkward pauses. Some of my other dates the woman has been a bit guarded or she didn't seem like she was that much fun."

Ok, I apologise if I'm way off the mark here, but out of the three dates I've been on, on two of them, I just ended up asking question after question to keep the conversation going, while the guys just went on about themselves.

They were kind of shocked when it didn't go any further, saying similar stuff you did "you asked questions, there were no awkward pauses etc" - yeah, cos I put in a stupid amount of effort to make sure there weren't.

This may not at all be the case with your date, so I apologise if that's the case, but might be worth thinking about. If you're noticing how many questions she asked, she may have felt like she's keeping the conversation going, asking about you, you're talking about yourself, then waiting for the next question.

 

The ideal situation is

 

guy— ask Q

girl— responds, ask him a Q

guy responses…he asks her a Q

and so on.

 

imbeded in here might be more follow up questions

 

ive been on dates where I ask, she answers. I asked a question, she answers…she asks nothing of me.  Thus kills the date fir me.

 

 I want a conversation….nota job interview.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Ami1uwant

[basil67]

To add to the above, asking questions is a way to find common ground.  But no matter how friendly and animated, I'd want more than an hour of volleying Q&A,   Thing is, I see the Q&A as the way to create connection with the goal being to get to the "yes, and" stage on a mutual topic very quickly.  

This can be done on any topic where there's commonality.  For example

Person A :Where did you grow up?   

Person B: X suburb

Person A: Ah!  my cousins lived in a neighbouring suburb, we used to go X place all the time

Person B:  I went there too!  And what about Y venue, we had so much fun

Person A  Yes, there was this was this one time....

Person B  I know! And this thing happened.....

 

 

 

 

[basil67]

While we're on the topic of conversation and connection, talking at length about non-mutual hobbies is unlikely to be fascinating to the other person.  Yes, they may be asking questions, but it's likely that they are simply being gracious. 

Again, the goal is "yes, and".   For instance, one of my hobbies is making corsets, so something I'd possibly hope for in conversation would be similarity of interests in respect to design, construction or attention to detail. Or perhaps they'd ask me how I got interested in it and I'd mention a love of history, learning new skills and creativity.  Then I may find that they also love history or are creative in a different way.   Sure, that example may not vibe (and to be fair, mentioning this hobby does tend to leave some looking like a deer in headlights)  but there will be something else where a non mutual interest can still create connection.  

Edited July 25, 2022 by basil67

[max3732]

13 hours ago, i_have_questions said:

"She was asking me a lot of follow up questions and laughed at my jokes and there weren't really any awkward pauses. Some of my other dates the woman has been a bit guarded or she didn't seem like she was that much fun."

Ok, I apologise if I'm way off the mark here, but out of the three dates I've been on, on two of them, I just ended up asking question after question to keep the conversation going, while the guys just went on about themselves.

They were kind of shocked when it didn't go any further, saying similar stuff you did "you asked questions, there were no awkward pauses etc" - yeah, cos I put in a stupid amount of effort to make sure there weren't.

This may not at all be the case with your date, so I apologise if that's the case, but might be worth thinking about. If you're noticing how many questions she asked, she may have felt like she's keeping the conversation going, asking about you, you're talking about yourself, then waiting for the next question.

 

That's definitely something for me to think about. With the combination of nerves and the fact that I'm passionate about something even though I'm normally reserved I may go on for too long or too much detail about something. There were a couple times she asked me a follow up question before I could get to trying to ask her something. 

Rather than asking more questions why didn't try to connect the guys story to something about you to give him something to build off of? What do you think they/I should do in that situation?

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

While we're on the topic of conversation and connection, talking at length about non-mutual hobbies is unlikely to be fascinating to the other person.  Yes, they may be asking questions, but it's likely that they are simply being gracious. 

Again, the goal is "yes, and".   For instance, one of my hobbies is making corsets, so something I'd possibly hope for in conversation would be similarity of interests in respect to design, construction or attention to detail. Or perhaps they'd ask me how I got interested in it and I'd mention a love of history, learning new skills and creativity.  Then I may find that they also love history or are creative in a different way.   Sure, that example may not vibe (and to be fair, mentioning this hobby does tend to leave some looking like a deer in headlights)  but there will be something else where a non mutual interest can still create connection.  

In the back of my mind I normally try to connect what I'm saying to something with her to get to some mutual connection or "yes and" as you put it. Let's say you were talking about corsets on a date and the guy kept asking you follow up questions like the ones you listed. So you talk about your love of history and he asks about other historical things you're interested in and then just keeps asking more and more questions but never shares anything about himself. That's kind of how I felt at some points and made an effort to try and bring it back to tying it to her and asking her questions. 

Wouldn't the ideal situation be that the person you're talking to says that they also have a love of history and tells you about how they first got into it and some historical trips and it kinds of builds? 

I wish I had a transcript of the conversation or some way to remember what happened better or see things from her POV, but I certainly didn't have the intent to just go on and on.

[Versacehottie]

IMO, max, you are far too concerned with EXCHANGING information....and are confusing doing that adequately and in equal amounts and somewhat entertaining amounts for a real connection...

Like one example that I've heard you say above and I think before is that you feel like being interrupted or asked two or three in depth questions in a row, let's say coming from her to you--is a bad thing. In context of a good date, I would less see that as interrupting in typical "polite" conversation...it could equally be excitement, an attempt to bond, contribute to good flow. But IMO bc you are overly stuck on "exchange of information", you don't pick up on that or roll with it.  IMO good conversation definitely takes tangents all the time & is not super linear.

Exchanging information, even very good information, is just like passing fact sheets back and forth--that's not going to take you over the line and into romance territory IMO. 

That's probably why you can say that you had a "good date" in that conversation seemed good and there weren't awkward pauses and erroneously sum it up as "what went wrong?".   If she's a more evolved dater than you are, she's not feeling the connection because you two failed to make one. Of which exchanging information does not do or suffice for getting people to that point. 

I know it's on your other thread but I would also say that the girl whose dad died--however it came up into conversation--albeit a bit heavy subject--is just a fact of her life and something for whatever reason she felt important to tell you.  People give you clues and openings in what they DO talk about as OPPORTUNITES to connect with them. Maybe you don't need to get heavy and deep in response to that bit of info but it IS an opportunity to show at even an initial level what sort of partner you would be--kind, thoughtful, caring, the kind of guy who turns a bad moment into good, better or somehow inspiring. I could/would do that with a stranger on the street tomorrow--for no particular reason--other than that's connecting with people.  Yet you seem concerned that the subject came up at all and want to control that it did by never asking a non-correlated lead-in question (!!! which will never control it since the two aren't related--believe me, she was going to drop that info on you at some point in the date IMO)--instead of using it as an opportunity to express the good sides of yourself. By wanting to overly control that moment, switch the subject, etc etc, all you are really doing IMO is trying to play out a first/second date script in your head and don't feel like that subject matter fits...and get back to exchanging information. I think this is playing a part in why you are missing out on truly connecting with these girls. It's like you want to hold up your list of attributes and have her hold up her metaphorical list (AND STICK TO THE APPROVED SUBJECT MATTER!!!FFS!!!), put it into a little date computer and it should spit out a magical connection...yet each time an actual opportunity IRL comes up to do that or make a connection, it's seen as an affront or digression from what "should" be happening. SOMEONE (whether it's a girl you ultimately decide is not for you, as you did with that one-- or the girl of your dreams) is always going to throw you a curve ball in terms of what the conversation is. Most good conversations are actually just like that. They jump around. Look at with your good friends or family--it usually does that--sign of familiarity in ways and ease, not interview like.  You can approximate that with a new date by allowing things to flow as if it's actually fun and playful vs routine, rote or too serious or even able to go deep if someone takes a left turn. Ironically you are worried about her serious subject but you are conducting the dates in a serious manner...which is more of a crime?  

I can think of people in life that do that "let me tell you my info and then you tell me yours"...they don't really listen except to wait for the appropriate place to insert boring, methodical question or take their turn to regurgitate whatever they already slightly have in mind to say for their next turn. Um, boring AF, sucks the life right out of most conversations. And yes these are the people that are very concerned with interrupting.  They are keeping score and want things even steven, quid pro quo.  I realize that you (or even your date) might "listen" but again it's the opportunity cost of having a better, more fun conversation where you can actually feel like it was fun & connected or deep & special. 

[CLS63AMG]

You know how there's 500 things on TV but you keep changing the channel?  Thats what online dating is like for women. 

Online dating truly is a broken system.  I was "rejected" not long ago by a 37yr old, yet I am currently being hit on by a hot 25yr old I met organically.  That about sums it up.

Edited July 25, 2022 by CLS63AMG

[max3732]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:17 AM, Versacehottie said:

you feel like being interrupted or asked two or three in depth questions in a row, let's say coming from her to you--is a bad thing. In context of a good date, I would less see that as interrupting in typical "polite" conversation...it could equally be excitement, an attempt to bond, contribute to good flow. But IMO bc you are overly stuck on "exchange of information", you don't pick up on that or roll with it.  IMO good conversation definitely takes tangents all the time & is not super linear.

I understand what you're saying and I think I can pick up on the difference between good and bad interruption and flow. What I don't like is when she asked something like "what do you do" and then as I'm answering says "where are you from" as I'm explaining that "what are your hobbies". It feels like scripted, very common questions and she's not actually listening to anything I'm saying. If it were a situation where she interrupted my hobbies to blurt out something about some interesting thing she's heard about one of her hobbies or in any way connected or asked about something that my answer reminded her of then I'd be excited and think things are going well. I think that's the kind of good flow you're talking about and not what I've complained about. Or am I mistaken?

On 7/25/2022 at 2:17 AM, Versacehottie said:

If she's a more evolved dater than you are, she's not feeling the connection because you two failed to make one. Of which exchanging information does not do or suffice for getting people to that point. 

When you say "failed to make one". It's not a situation where I give a long answer and she immediately just follow up with another question. She seemed to be very actively listening and we were both laughing and making comments all the time. I don't know how else to try and see if there's a connection there.

 

On 7/25/2022 at 2:17 AM, Versacehottie said:

I know it's on your other thread but I would also say that the girl whose dad died--however it came up into conversation--albeit a bit heavy subject--is just a fact of her life and something for whatever reason she felt important to tell you.  People give you clues and openings in what they DO talk about as OPPORTUNITES to connect with them. Maybe you don't need to get heavy and deep in response to that bit of info but it IS an opportunity to show at even an initial level what sort of partner you would be--kind, thoughtful, caring, the kind of guy who turns a bad moment into good, better or somehow inspiring. I could/would do that with a stranger on the street tomorrow--for no particular reason--other than that's connecting with people.  Yet you seem concerned that the subject came up at all and want to control that it did by never asking a non-correlated lead-in question (!!! which will never control it since the two aren't related--believe me, she was going to drop that info on you at some point in the date IMO)--instead of using it as an opportunity to express the good sides of yourself. By wanting to overly control that moment, switch the subject, etc etc, all you are really doing IMO is trying to play out a first/second date script in your head and don't feel like that subject matter fits...and get back to exchanging information. I think this is playing a part in why you are missing out on truly connecting with these girls. It's like you want to hold up your list of attributes and have her hold up her metaphorical list (AND STICK TO THE APPROVED SUBJECT MATTER!!!FFS!!!), put it into a little date computer and it should spit out a magical connection...yet each time an actual opportunity IRL comes up to do that or make a connection, it's seen as an affront or digression from what "should" be happening. SOMEONE (whether it's a girl you ultimately decide is not for you, as you did with that one-- or the girl of your dreams) is always going to throw you a curve ball in terms of what the conversation is. Most good conversations are actually just like that. They jump around. Look at with your good friends or family--it usually does that--sign of familiarity in ways and ease, not interview like.  You can approximate that with a new date by allowing things to flow as if it's actually fun and playful vs routine, rote or too serious or even able to go deep if someone takes a left turn. Ironically you are worried about her serious subject but you are conducting the dates in a serious manner...which is more of a crime?  

Perhaps my question/answer about this on the other thread wasn't explained properly. What I said I was going to avoid talking about in the future was asking what her experience has been like on the dating app, not questions about her family in the event it could lead to her talking about something like this. So I'm NOT trying to avoid talking about this at all. My question was how to handle it when this inevitably comes up again with someone else as I've encountered this before on a 1st date.

I agree with you 100% that this is a good opportunity to show the kind of partner I'd be and that's why I was asking for help to figure out what's kind of socially acceptable with a stranger on a 1st date. My instinct is to be very empathetic and supportive and give her a shoulder to cry on, but I didn't know if that would be going too far on a 1st date. It's also something that gets me very emotional and again I'm not sure if she wants to see that kind of emotion on a 1st date.

I also trying to flirt and have fun on the dates, not act all serious like a job interview. That's one thing that bothered me with her and some other women. I'm asking them about things that should be fun and exciting and I'm getting excited talking about them and they seem like robots. I like it when they smile, laugh, and don't take themselves so seriously talking about silly things that I try to bring up. On my date that didn't have a romantic connection I thought I was doing that.

[Versacehottie]

7 hours ago, max3732 said:

I understand what you're saying and I think I can pick up on the difference between good and bad interruption and flow. What I don't like is when she asked something like "what do you do" and then as I'm answering says "where are you from" as I'm explaining that "what are your hobbies". It feels like scripted, very common questions and she's not actually listening to anything I'm saying. If it were a situation where she interrupted my hobbies to blurt out something about some interesting thing she's heard about one of her hobbies or in any way connected or asked about something that my answer reminded her of then I'd be excited and think things are going well. I think that's the kind of good flow you're talking about and not what I've complained about. Or am I mistaken?

But can you really pick up it with the accuracy that you think? After all, that's the subject of this thread: that you had a date where you thought the conversation was good/fine yet it didn't result in a connection. So perhaps you are not picking up on those clues....or also more likely not being able to optimize the flow when it is good or push it toward the good. About the interruption--i'll take your word for it...somewhat...you've mentioned it more than once and I have a hard time believing that more than one girl would interrupt in the way you describe above (or guy).  I can easily believe that you are subject to interview-like dates.  Perhaps--again--I would go back to exchanging of information.  While I get that it would be hard on a first off second date to jump into conversations that are more about connection and playful than ones at least that start with some exchange of information, but if you get some traction, it's ok/fine/even interesting for you to take a leap off of your "full" or pat answer to "what are your hobbies?"..Say something unexpected. Interrupt yourself, There are are a lot of ways to change up interview exchange of information without solely relying on the other person to come correct. That said, if it's all the other person, then don't like her--it's as simple as. Though I would lean toward giving someone the benefit of the doubt that they might be nervous or like she might be on her first date in a long time or perhaps both of you are a bit awkward on the first date and the second, third would be better.   *you can't fault the dating process itself when it's not going away--it's something you need to do in order to get into a relationship. Don't waste time or get upset over someone tha you assess via their first date communication t is not what you want--if you aren't going to see the leeway that could be extended to the other person for 100 reasons why the first date could be slightly awkward, then you sort of need to let it go. Don't get stuck in limbo wishing someone you deemed "not-for-you" didn't communicate differently. On one hand, I wonder if you get stuck in that thinking about it afterward (even though you don't like the person) because you aren't sure enough about your performance on the date to be sure that your communication didn't contribute. I think that is why some leeway or benefit of the doubt is a good idea if you still feel something for the person. If you don't, you don't. Fine. Point is you should be "complaining" about something when it seems to be precisely the reason you decided you aren't interested in her.  Decide she's not for you and move on. 

 

7 hours ago, max3732 said:

It's not a situation where I give a long answer and she immediately just follow up with another question. She seemed to be very actively listening and we were both laughing and making comments all the time. I don't know how else to try and see if there's a connection there.

Well I will just repeat that it's not only the content of your exchanged information and yes people can even laugh and have a good time but not feel a romantic spark. You can do a great job of being yourself and being charming on a date and it can still not work for some people--because people are individuals and sometimes bringing your best self isn't what this girl is looking for. If I were to guess, I would say that it was probably a mix of not quite being the most experienced date and perhaps not what she was looking for (nothing you could have helped or changed)---so probably in the grey area of a little of both.  Some people are pretty expert at least bringing their individual charm to the surface quickly enough and tailoring it adeptly to what is happening in real time making it easier to at least show the other person the connection or chemistry that exists. If that isn't you, it makes it harder to show that there is chemistry/connection potential there in the span of time of a first date. And you can't optimize and get the flow going to the extent it should be. Some guys probably on the opposite spectrum, can express pretty quickly what they are about and where the other person needs to slot in for chemistry and it STILL just isn't a match--the answer just reveals itself quicker, clearer.

 

7 hours ago, max3732 said:

Perhaps my question/answer about this on the other thread wasn't explained properly. What I said I was going to avoid talking about in the future was asking what her experience has been like on the dating app, not questions about her family in the event it could lead to her talking about something like this. So I'm NOT trying to avoid talking about this at all. My question was how to handle it when this inevitably comes up again with someone else as I've encountered this before on a 1st date.

 

Ahhh I see....ok yeah don't ask the how did you find yourself on the app question...like wiseman said (over there I think), comparing war stories about app dating isn't the best conversation...at all. Minefield. Puts the other person sort of on the defense, etc etc.  I think if it comes up (parent passed away) again, you don't have to get all sad about life or taken off what is meant to be a fun evening., you can focus on the wonderful father-daughter relationship (by asking what are some of her best memories of him/what did they like to do together, etc), her strength or what she learned about herself, how family is coping (that one is a little dangerous but also can show family dynamic, like who is the strong one, how they support each other or have moved on as a family). The idea is that even in "bad situations" you can find a silver lining--now you don't want to force that on the other person if she is talking about death of parent, but assuming she is normal and didn't really want to get sad or melancholy on a first date but is just talking about the facts of her life, a lot of people will want to summarize it up with the idea of that was very sad but I was so lucky to have him when I did, things along those lines. Try to help allow them to have that and help them. Not explaining it well but it isn't that hard really.  I'm sure like everyone who works at a company office, often their co-workers come in after some family tragedy...this is manageable and can often be bonding without it having to go into heavy, dramatic territory or taking a ton of time. I would assume this girl or most girls on your dates are normal enough that if it came up again, it would be easy to do--all you do is show some concern and care, and keep it appropriate for people who've known each other as long as you have, which isn't that long.  I think as far as it making YOU very emotional, you keep that in check as appropriate for people who've known each other for as long as you have which isn't long. While a moment when a person is talking about their parent's death is about them--so I would leave comparing stories at that point, ie don't do it--let her talk. Lets say if she said she and her father had a great relationship and they used to go camping or something like that and she will probably say some other nice things about her dad and when it fades off you could say, "Wow, seems like you have an amazing relationship" "he/you were so lucky". Then you can segway into how looking forward you are to being a dad someday or going camping with your son or daughter OR a unique to you activity or memory you would hope to make with your kids. 

[assertives]

From what you've written, I'm wondering if you were remembering how the date based on how you had hoped it to go rather than how it actually turned out.

9 hours ago, max3732 said:

What I don't like is when she asked something like "what do you do" and then as I'm answering says "where are you from" as I'm explaining that "what are your hobbies". It feels like scripted, very common questions and she's not actually listening to anything I'm saying.

You said in your response to Versacehottie that you felt she wasn't actually listening to anything you are saying. 

9 hours ago, max3732 said:

She seemed to be very actively listening

and then a few paragraphs later, you said she seems to be very actively listening. The 2 statements contradict each other and you are puzzled that she said she didn't feel a connection.

I feel like if you actually sat down and think about it, you'll come to the same conclusion as she did that there probably really was no connection that night. Also, having good conversation or even chemistry with someone alot of times don't necessarily result in people wanting to date each other. So I wouldn't jump to think you that it was because it was something you did or didn't do.