dispute with partner about shared finances

[McGee911]

My partner and I have lived together for just over 4 years now.  Originally, we split the bills down the middle but over time that has changed to where I have been paying more in relation to the amount of money we make individually.
Currently, our shared expenses are $5500 a month (rent, electric, internet, groceries, TV, etc).  Of that $5500, I pay $4,000 and they pay $1,500.  I am fine with this HOWEVER, my partner recently claimed "I do not benefit from your money" and this has led to a large dispute which has led me here.

I don't want to say more than the above.  Those are the facts.  We don't want to ask our friends as it's a bit embarrassing.  Can people please let us know if this makes sense or not?  The question is:

Does my partner benefit from me paying $4,000 out of the $5,500 or not?

[mark clemson]

Obviously she does. You could itemize what adds up to the $4K, compare that to a list of what she pays for and how much, and use that as a basis for a conversation about her views and possibly some discussion of splitting things more fairly.

My wife and I maintain relatively separate finances and I've had to remind her every once in a while of what I shoulder. It helps a lot to have it all listed down on two pieces of paper (one list of what you pay for, with amounts, and the other with what she does). Make both lists as complete as possible.

If your partner wants to discuss % of income in addition to total amounts that may also be a worthwhile point to address, and you could update both lists with that info to provide a clearer picture of "impact" of what is paid, which could be an important factor in assessing "fairness".

Edited July 21, 2022 by mark clemson

[glows]

2 hours ago, McGee911 said:

My partner and I have lived together for just over 4 years now.  Originally, we split the bills down the middle but over time that has changed to where I have been paying more in relation to the amount of money we make individually.
Currently, our shared expenses are $5500 a month (rent, electric, internet, groceries, TV, etc).  Of that $5500, I pay $4,000 and they pay $1,500.  I am fine with this HOWEVER, my partner recently claimed "I do not benefit from your money" and this has led to a large dispute which has led me here.

I don't want to say more than the above.  Those are the facts.  We don't want to ask our friends as it's a bit embarrassing.  Can people please let us know if this makes sense or not?  The question is:

Does my partner benefit from me paying $4,000 out of the $5,500 or not?

It sounds like a dispute about whether those bills are valid or needed. I'm venturing a guess that there have been multiple disagreements about whether some of those are in excess. 

If you can't agree on those expenses, then you'll have to come to some other solution. Her solution is obviously to pay less or contribute less. The root issue is that you don't agree on what those expenses are.

[Happy Lemming]

I would tell your partner to research current market rents for your area for a similar home.  I think it will be an eye-opener.

Since you are paying the bulk of the expenses you should be entitled to peace in your home, if your partner wants to add angst to your life, perhaps it is time for that individual to leave.

[McGee911]

To be clear, I do make substantially more and I do pay shared expenses $4,000/ $1,500 which is in line with our incomes.  And that came to be over time, not right away.  And I can admit I was resistant initially and but I am ok with it now.  My issue is simply the statement that "I don't benefit from your money" which I find to be, frankly, tone deaf.  And insulting enough to me to have to journey on to this message board to get some anonymous perspective

My partners argument is simply that it's equal because it's proportionate and mine is "You pay $1,500 a month for our place, all the utilities, and all groceries.  You'd be paying much, much more if you were living on your own, thus, you do benefit from my money."

Thanks for the early feedback.  Interestingly, I made sure to keep my question gender neutral, but there is an assumption I am a man and my partner is a woman.

[introverted1]

3 hours ago, McGee911 said:

Of that $5500, I pay $4,000 and they pay $1,500. 

How is it even a question, in this case?  Is there something in that $5500 that is large and only benefits you?

Assuming you each benefit equally from the things you pay for with that $5500, then your partner is benefiting to the tune of $1250/month (the difference between what they currently pay and what they would pay if they were contributing half).

ETA:  If your partner makes substantially less than you do, then your current split can be considered equitable, albeit not equal. And there is nothing wrong with that(and quite a lot right with it, in fact).  But your partner is not being realistic when they claim not be receiving any benefit.  Case in point:  assume you each contributed at your partner's level so you could only afford a house/groceries/extras that cost $3000/month.  Would your standard of living increase, decrease, or stay the same?  Maybe your partner can understand it better in that context.

Edited July 21, 2022 by introverted1

[McGee911]

$2800 Rent / $2000 groceries/shared meals/house hold needs / $200 internet/streaming services / cleaning service $280 / utilities $220

Edited July 21, 2022 by McGee911

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, McGee911 said:

I do make substantially more and I do pay shared expenses $4,000/ $1,500 which is in line with our incomes. "You pay $1,500 a month for our place, all the utilities, and all groceries.  You'd be paying much, much more if you were living on your own, thus, you do benefit from my money."

Who does more domestic work? Bickering over money often means there's a power struggle. You are dressing your partner down for not being beholding enough, why is that? Especially making them feel like an ungrateful boarder who is getting a bargain at your expense.

[McGee911]

27 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Who does more domestic work? Bickering over money often means there's a power struggle. You are dressing your partner down for not being beholding enough, why is that? Especially making them feel like an ungrateful boarder who is getting a bargain at your expense.

A lot of assumptions here.  My original question was void of context because to add context is both one sided and also not easy to sum up easily.   I happen to be very focused on the statement that "I don't benefit from your money" and how insulted I feel by it.  

 

[Happy Lemming]

48 minutes ago, McGee911 said:

To be clear, I do make substantially more...

I'm going to make the assumption that you don't need your partner's contribution to make ends meet.  If that assumption is wrong, please correct me.

If my assumption is correct, then there is no need to endure these ungrateful comments or suffer insults from your partner.  Let this individual make there own way in the world.  I'm guessing it would easily cost them more then $1500/month for appropriate accommodations??

[Wiseman2]

32 minutes ago, McGee911 said:

I happen to be very focused on the statement that "I don't benefit from your money" and how insulted I feel by it. 

What backed them into a corner to become defensive about it? When you lord your greater financial contribution over someone they are bound to feel inferior and stand for themselves. 

[glows]

1 hour ago, McGee911 said:

To be clear, I do make substantially more and I do pay shared expenses $4,000/ $1,500 which is in line with our incomes.  And that came to be over time, not right away.  And I can admit I was resistant initially and but I am ok with it now.  My issue is simply the statement that "I don't benefit from your money" which I find to be, frankly, tone deaf.  And insulting enough to me to have to journey on to this message board to get some anonymous perspective

It's not about the money anymore or how it's split. That's just the catalyst and topic exposing your resentments in the relationship. You don't like your partner's attitude, period. Your partner makes that statement because he/she doesn't like your attitude either. 

Do you know what's causing all this rife? Did you move in too quickly? Did your goals for the future change? Do you have kids together? You mentioned not wanting to say anything more but this is more than about the expenses. Actually it's not even about the expenses. You resent one another and the way your partner speaks to you suggests he/she doesn't respect you or anything you have to say. Until you both get to the bottom of it and what's causing this you'll live together in perpetual angst and arguing about issues like money.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, McGee911 said:

.   I happen to be very focused on the statement that "I don't benefit from your money" and how insulted I feel by it.  

 

Whether your partner benefits from your money or not is up to them. If they would be perfectly happy without the extra creature comforts that your money affords then the benefit is minimal or non-existent. 

[Els]

Unfortunately the context really does matter. For instance, if you want to live in a nice house but they're happy to live in a small apartment, or you use a lot more heating than they do, or you eat a lot more, or you need subscriptions that they don't... that would mean that if they did split from you, their expenditure would be lower than half of your current shared expenses. Or if they do housework and childcare beyond their 50% share, that would cost you a significant amount if you hired someone to do.

That's all just splitting hairs though IMO. Would you care to share more details on what led to you asking this question and the context surrounding it? Otherwise it's just like asking "how long is a piece of string?".

[Els]

1 hour ago, McGee911 said:

Thanks for the early feedback.  Interestingly, I made sure to keep my question gender neutral, but there is an assumption I am a man and my partner is a woman.

To be fair, I did notice the use of the genderless pronoun, and if I had to guess it would be the opposite. But mostly because, for some reason, cishet men rarely use "they" to refer to their partner.

[Happy Lemming]

12 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

I did notice the use of the genderless pronoun

I noticed it as well and was thinking this was a same-sex relationship.

[Versacehottie]

2 hours ago, McGee911 said:

To be clear, I do make substantially more and I do pay shared expenses $4,000/ $1,500 which is in line with our incomes.  And that came to be over time, not right away.  And I can admit I was resistant initially and but I am ok with it now.  My issue is simply the statement that "I don't benefit from your money" which I find to be, frankly, tone deaf.  And insulting enough to me to have to journey on to this message board to get some anonymous perspective

My partners argument is simply that it's equal because it's proportionate and mine is "You pay $1,500 a month for our place, all the utilities, and all groceries.  You'd be paying much, much more if you were living on your own, thus, you do benefit from my money."

Thanks for the early feedback.  Interestingly, I made sure to keep my question gender neutral, but there is an assumption I am a man and my partner is a woman.

lol I knew from your original post with the use of the word "they" that there was a high likelihood that you were the woman and your partner the man (or i guess it could even be same sex truly)...

um yeah, no. totally tone deaf of your partner. Partner would either have to downgrade their life to fit with what he/she could afford which is considerably less considering the way you split tells a lot of the story first of all and any two people that are contributing to a dual income funded household are ahead of the game compared to a single income household. I would not be happy about this in your shoes at all. You did right not to poll your friends--that's messy and embarrassing IMO.

If he/she didn't wrap their heads around the reality of this and your contribution quickly, I wouldn't be happy with it for you.  That said, just saying this for the record--though I doubt it's the case--make sure you aren't overly keeping score. Sounds like your partner is keeping score and happy to get away with what he/she can. And another thought is how serious/committed is this? There is the black and white stuff--which as you presented it, I see you as in the right. And then there is sort of the future-building, emotional component--if you are truly building a future together maybe it's time to pool your money. Though honestly if this is the way the "accounting" of it goes, I'd be hesitant.  Doesn't mean the other person is in the wrong about that part...if you are married, long-term commitment living together, one might wonder why it hasn't progressed to a pooled money--certainly if you are married!  Seems to be a lack of trust on one or both sides. I wouldn't want to be seen as an ATM for someone ungrateful or bottomless pit about it but I also wouldn't want to be in a marriage or long term, progressing live in relationship where finances were nitpicked or monitored excessively if that was the case.  good luck

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, McGee911 said:

Does my partner benefit from me paying $4,000 out of the $5,500 or not?

No because it comes at the expense of  true partnership and them needing to kowtow to you. 

[Els]

2 hours ago, McGee911 said:

$2800 Rent / $2000 groceries/shared meals/house hold needs / $200 internet/streaming services / cleaning service $280 / utilities $220

I do want to mention that, while of course it does depend on your location, those costs are pretty high IMO. Not everyone needs to live in a house that costs $700 a week to rent - I live in the centre of a major city in a developed country and our rent is much lower than that! $2000 for groceries is also $500 a week, which is again rather above average. And what internet service are you using that's $200 a month?

It's fine to spend lavishly if you earn enough to do so, but I really wouldn't assume that everyone needs that standard of living. Also, if finances are a sore point between both of you, maybe it could help to sit down and discuss how expenses could be reduced?

[McGee911]

Interesting and diverse feedback.  Of course, there is loads of context.  I can write for 75 minutes without taking a break and I'm bound to miss something.  In an effort to get back to work, I'll do my best to be objective despite only being one side of the coin.

My partner calls me "cheap".  I call it frugal.  I know the value of a dollar.  I come from lower middle class, have been given exactly $0 of "family money/inheritance" and have made an honest and fruitful career working my butt off and pretty much dedicating my life to my craft.  I still look at money from the view of someone who grew up lower middle class.  A new car that costs more than $28,000 is too expensive for me.  A couch should cost max $800.  I will hunt craigslist for a new computer monitor if I can save $100.  I'm at a point that I don't need to do these things, but I do and I am proud of that.  That said, I am not "cheap".  I'm taking my family on a $10,000 summer vacation in a few weeks, staying in a nice place, doing really great life time memory things and it's my pleasure.  My partner convinced me to buy a new leather chair from Crate & Barrell for $2,300, and while I had to internalize how wrong it felt for me, asking questions like "who buys these things?" I am also now 50 years old, have worked my tail off, and lately I've been at the crossroads of not thinking about the future and living in the now.  

On the flip side, my partner has champagne taste but a beer budget, by their own admission. They also grew up middle class but they have an eye for the finer things in life, the spoils.  These two view points are often at odds.  Something breaks, I'll find a way to have it fixed. They'll throw it out and want a new one.  (I understand statements like these are the reason why I wanted to avoid context).  We do many fun things, and it's almost always at my expense, but with that I feel like I have the right to budget through my lens and not theirs.

There are many other forces at play.  I have children. My partner does not. My children stay here 4-6 days a month. They have a room here.  My partner has the entire bedroom for their stuff and another entire bedroom for more stuff.  My stuff is in a finished basement, including my clothes and dressers.  I don't sleep in bed because I snore, so I sleep pretty much exclusively on a couch.  We are both divorced.  I came from a failed marriage where I put my ex-spouse 3rd behind my children and my job and it ended the marriage.  The pecking order is the same here.  This was obvious from day one.  There is a negative side to loving your job this much, among the negatives is a tendency to work too much.  I can be thoughtless and things are flying through my minds scope of vision like a tornado.  My partner has no children and their job is 1000% a job and to them, I am #1.  They have much less going on in general and is generally more thoughtful.  

The household chores are split evenly in my opinion. We have a cleaning crew that comes in twice a month (my partners choice, I was more wanting to just DIY), I handle the bulk of garbage, dishes, and shared laundry. My partner tends for our pet and will organize when things get messy.  We have no outdoors.  We live in the greater NYC area.

This whole situation was born out of my partner being frustrated that they got COVID several days before I had to leave for a business trip that was a rather busy trip.  I got called out for not calling enough, checking in, not sending a meal, not making them think I was thinking of them often enough.  And no dispute there, my partner is right.  I've said so.  

But in this entire sequence of events, it was told to me that my partner doesn't benefit from the money I make and it just hurts.  I want to build a life with this person, but am cautious because of the way we both approach money especially when the spender makes far less than the frugal, more cautious one

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by McGee911

[McGee911]

37 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

I do want to mention that, while of course it does depend on your location, those costs are pretty high IMO. Not everyone needs to live in a house that costs $700 a week to rent - I live in the centre of a major city in a developed country and our rent is much lower than that! $2000 for groceries is also $500 a week, which is again rather above average. And what internet service are you using that's $200 a month?

It's fine to spend lavishly if you earn enough to do so, but I really wouldn't assume that everyone needs that standard of living. Also, if finances are a sore point between both of you, maybe it could help to sit down and discuss how expenses could be reduced?

$2800 doesnt get you much in the NYC suburbs. $2,000 a month includes all groceries, eating out (admittedly too often as we dont find the time to cook), but also thigs for the house; cat food, laundry detergent, a new shower head, this or that broke and it needs fixing.  $200 for internet includes internet and all streaming like Netflix, HBO, YoutubeTV.  Stuff adds up.  We don't live extravagant, at least as far as I can tell. I drive around in a leased Toyota Camary.  I don't want to sound tone deaf, because I know I have it better than many, but I've worked really hard for this stuff, these little pleasures.

Edited July 21, 2022 by McGee911

[glows]

18 minutes ago, McGee911 said:

Interesting and diverse feedback.  Of course, there is loads of context.  I can write for 75 minutes without taking a break and I'm bound to miss something.  In an effort to get back to work, I'll do my best to be objective despite only being one side of the coin.

My partner calls me "cheap".  I call it frugal.  I know the value of a dollar.  I come from lower middle class, have been given exactly $0 of "family money/inheritance" and have made an honest and fruitful career working my butt off and pretty much dedicating my life to my craft.  I still look at money from the view of someone who grew up lower middle class.  A new car that costs more than $28,000 is too expensive for me.  A couch should cost max $800.  I will hunt craigslist for a new computer monitor if I can save $100.  I'm at a point that I don't need to do these things, but I do and I am proud of that.  That said, I am not "cheap".  I'm taking my family on a $10,000 summer vacation in a few weeks, staying in a nice place, doing really great life time memory things and it's my pleasure.  My partner convinced me to buy a new leather chair from Crate & Barrell for $2,300, and while I had to internalize how wrong it felt for me, asking questions like "who buys these things?" I am also now 50 years old, have worked my tail off, and lately I've been at the crossroads of not thinking about the future and living in the now.  

On the flip side, my partner has champagne taste but a beer budget, by their own admission. They also grew up middle class but they have an eye for the finer things in life, the spoils.  These two view points are often at odds.  Something breaks, I'll find a way to have it fixed. They'll throw it out and want a new one.  (I understand statements like these are the reason why I wanted to avoid context).  We do many fun things, and it's almost always at my expense, but with that I feel like I have the right to budget through my lens and not theirs.

There are many other forces at play.  I have children. My partner does not. My children stay here 4-6 days a month. They have a room here.  My partner has the entire bedroom for their stuff and another entire bedroom for more stuff.  My stuff is in a finished basement, including my clothes and dressers.  I don't sleep in bed because I snore, so I sleep pretty much exclusively on a couch.  We are both divorced.  I came from a failed marriage where I put my ex-spouse 3rd behind my children and my job and it ended the marriage.  The pecking order is the same here.  This was obvious from day one.  There is a negative side to loving your job this much, among the negatives is a tendency to work too much.  I can be thoughtless and things are flying through my minds scope of vision like a tornado.  My partner has no children and their job is 1000% a job and to them, I am #1.  They have much less going on in general and is generally more thoughtful.  

The household chores are split evenly in my opinion. We have a cleaning crew that comes in twice a month (my partners choice, I was more wanting to just DIY), I handle the bulk of garbage, dishes, and shared laundry. My partner tends for our pet and will organize when things get messy.  We have no outdoors.  We live in the greater NYC area.

This whole situation was born out of my partner being frustrated that they got COVID several days before I had to leave for a business trip that was a rather busy trip.  I got called out for not calling enough, checking in, not sending a meal, not making them think I was thinking of them often enough.  And no dispute there, my partner is right.  I've said so.  

But in this entire sequence of events, it was told to me that my partner doesn't benefit from the money I make and it just hurts.  I want to build a life with this person, but am cautious because of the way we both approach money especially when the spender makes far less than the frugal, more cautious one

 

Since then have you called more or kept in touch a bit more when you're away for work? The issue is that your partner doesn't feel important in the relationship...

It's passive aggressive to withhold any funds. I didn't mention this earlier as the root issues in your relationship were very vague. Now that you've shared a bit more it's clearer that your partner doesn't feel like they are a priority.

Was marriage ever brought up? You're already living together and building a life together. What else is there unless either or both of you want marriage and more children? After four years, do you think your partner is starting to realize that it may never happen and is building more resentment towards you?

Criticizing you and calling you "cheap" is really unnecessary, a sign of contempt. It's again not about the money but you can see differences in your lifestyle and approach with the money. Your partner is just using topics like money to voice contempt, anger, frustration towards you. Your partner doesn't like the way you are or the way you do things but instead of working it out or coming to a compromise, they resort to insults. 

I'd try to have a conversation again about what you both expect from the relationship and list things plainly. Ie what is needed to continue on living together. Both of you have to be open to this and respectful. If your partner can't manage this or resorts to more insults I think you have your answer. 

 

[McGee911]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

is your partner capable of earning more money than he/she currently earns?

[ ] 

Without additional schooling, they make as much money as they currently can.  

Edited July 22, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
response to removed content

[basil67]

Your partner certainly does benefit.  On their own, would they be able to afford living in your location with spare rooms to store all their stuff?   And if they could afford the rent, would they be able to afford to eat out, have a cleaner,  replace rather than fix, to buy new rather than upcycle?   I suspect not.

That said, I think there's something underlying this complaint they made.  I'm not suggesting that they are being reasonable, but there is some issue which needs to be sorted out one way or another.  

[McGee911]

1 hour ago, glows said:

Since then have you called more or kept in touch a bit more when you're away for work? The issue is that your partner doesn't feel important in the relationship...

It's passive aggressive to withhold any funds. I didn't mention this earlier as the root issues in your relationship were very vague. Now that you've shared a bit more it's clearer that your partner doesn't feel like they are a priority.

Was marriage ever brought up? You're already living together and building a life together. What else is there unless either or both of you want marriage and more children? After four years, do you think your partner is starting to realize that it may never happen and is building more resentment towards you?

Criticizing you and calling you "cheap" is really unnecessary, a sign of contempt. It's again not about the money but you can see differences in your lifestyle and approach with the money. Your partner is just using topics like money to voice contempt, anger, frustration towards you. Your partner doesn't like the way you are or the way you do things but instead of working it out or coming to a compromise, they resort to insults. 

I'd try to have a conversation again about what you both expect from the relationship and list things plainly. Ie what is needed to continue on living together. Both of you have to be open to this and respectful. If your partner can't manage this or resorts to more insults I think you have your answer. 

 

This post makes sense to me.  I'm just quite literal.  To me, I don't consider saying one thing meaning something else.  You say " I don't benefit from your money" my reply is "that makes no sense, it's mathematical!"

In my marriage, we lived paycheck to paycheck and over time, I gave up all the financial decisions to my spouse to handle and when the marriage ended I was shocked to learn how bad the finances were mismanaged and I vowed to not let that happen ever again.  I almost had to file for bankruptcy we were so far in debt.  That was only 6 years ago!

And again, I am OK with most of this. I bought the 2k chair.  I accept the differences between us and my partner has taught me that stocking up for a future when you are 50 might be me pretending I am not 50.  I could be dead tomorrow. We'll go to a city and use Air BnB and I'll be like "this place looks nice ($170 per night) and my partner will be like "that place is gross, how about THIS place ($370 a night)"

It really is the attitude which was summed up in one statement that led me here, but again Glows it's about more than money.

Thank you for this post.