do we have a chance or have we blown it?

[samander]

Hi

I’m hoping to bounce off some people that may have had similar situations in their marriages in the hope that there might be some light at the end of the tunnel for me.

We were childhood sweethearts but lost touch when his parents moved away. We reconnected by pure chance when we were 21 and married two years later. We’ve been married three years, 2 months. He moved out last month.

So what happened was that we went on a holiday for our three year anniversary. We were always fun and carefree and we ended up in a threesome with another man. It was initiated by my husband. I was against the idea at first. He talked me into it. I wont lie, I probably got a little too into it but that’s not what seems to be the problem. When I escorted the other man out in the morning I kissed him at the front door and he gave me his number. I actually threw it away on the way back to the kitchen but my husband didn’t see that. I had no need for it. We were never going to see him again. The sex we had after that was incredible and we were talking about what happened the previous night. All seemed good.

Later that night after a day of sightseeing he told me how mad he was seeing me kiss that guy as he left. I was a bit shocked given what had happened the night before. He also had a massive problem that he gave me his phone number and I hid it from him. I told him I had already thrown it away and he actually looked in the bin when we got home to confirm. There was no apology.

Once we got home our conversations just kept going in circles and I couldn't reassure him enough that that guy meant nothing.  Once I was running very late for work and just gave him a quick kiss as I left.  That didn't go down well with him asking why I can't kiss him like I kissed that guy.  A few weeks later he just moved out saying that last kiss was way too passionate and meant way too much and that it wasn’t lust that I showed but rather love. Now he wont speak to me, he wont return calls, not even texts. I even tried to stop him in the street just so I could talk to him and all I got was him saying he will “contact you IF I’m ever ready… IF !!!” That’s how he said it.  He's at home with his parents.  I don't know how much they know.

So is there a chance? I meant we’ve obviously totally screwed up but is this something that can be gotten over? I’m loathe to point out that it was him that initiated all this because I don’t think blame is what is needed here. Do I just wait? How long? Is there anything that I could do that might help him (us)?

[Wiseman2]

48 minutes ago, samander said:

We’ve been married three years, 2 months. He moved out last month.

 we ended up in a threesome with another man. It was initiated by my husband. I was against the idea at first. He talked me into it.

Once we got home our conversations just kept going in circles and I couldn't reassure him enough that that guy meant nothing. He's at home with his parents. 

Sorry this happened. Unfortunately your husband's adventure backfired on him. He didn't realize he was too jealous and insecure for what he wanted.

Let him cool off at his parents. Is it possible he set you up to fail? It was his idea, then he goes ballistic? He farmed you out to some random guy then acts like you're cheating?

Did he actually move out or is he just camping out at his parents?

Contact an attorney about your options in divorce. He can't just walk out and abandon the marriage and financial responsibilities. Do not beg him to come back, he has some issues.

[ExpatInItaly]

Unfortunately, you're now seeing why engaging in this sort of activity without first having thoroughly discussed it was a mistake. I have enjoyed this experience a couple times in my life, but it was always very thoughtfully and carefully discussed with my partner first, with a clear set of expectations and parameters communicated. Sure, we can't know how we'll feel or react until we're actually in the moment, but there are certainly steps one can take to mitigate the risk of hurt and feelings of betrayal. Moot here, I realize. 

There is not much you can do at this point. Your husband is either going to soften his stance or he's not.  You can't make this right by doing anything more than you already have. And yes, this might be what ends the marriage. It is, however, unfair to leave you hanging without any communication at all and particularly when this was his idea to begin with. Stop accepting all the blame. I would stop trying to contact him, and re-evaluate if you want to stay in a marriage with a man who absolutely stonewalls you rather than having a conversation about it.

How was your marriage before this? And how did you husband manage to initiate a threesome while on this holiday - what was the reason he gave you for wanting to do this, and where did he find this other man? 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by ExpatInItaly

[samander]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. Unfortunately your husband's adventure backfired on him. He didn't realize he was too jealous and insecure for what he wanted.

Let him cool off at his parents. Is it possible he set you up to fail? It was his idea, then he goes ballistic? He farmed you out to some random guy then acts like you're cheating?

Did he actually move out or is he just camping out at his parents?

Contact an attorney about your options in divorce. He can't just walk out and abandon the marriage and financial responsibilities. Do not beg him to come back, he has some issues.

He's at his parents but his clothes and stuff are still here.  He comes home during the day to grab things every now and again.  He leaves a note each time so I know it was him and not a burglar  or something.   We have a joint account where both pays go in.  We both take out some spending money and the rest pays the bills and savings.  That hasn't changed.  I don't believe it was a setup but I really don't know.  He seemed to enjoy it while it was happening and we had no issues that I know of leading up to it.

[samander]

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

And how did you husband manage to initiate a threesome while on this holiday - what was the reason he gave you for wanting to do this, and where did he find this other man? 

I was pure chance.  We were at a restaurant, the waiter had a way too tight shirt on showing a six pack.  Apparently I kept looking and commenting so he secretly hit the waiter up.  Once we were back at the hotel he told me he had a surprise coming in a couple of hours.  About an hour before he told me what it was.  I told him to call the guy to stop it and we went back and forth for half an hour.  Then I caved in and went and had a shower and got ready.  The rest is history. 

8 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I would stop trying to contact him, and re-evaluate if you want to stay in a marriage with a man who absolutely stonewalls you rather than having a conversation about it.

I hear you.  He gets a chance but it can't last forever.  It's really out of character for him though, he is normally a good communicator, sometimes annoyingly so.

[ExpatInItaly]

6 minutes ago, samander said:

Apparently I kept looking and commenting so he secretly hit the waiter up.  Once we were back at the hotel he told me he had a surprise coming in a couple of hours.  About an hour before he told me what it was.

I think this was astonishingly inappropriate on his part, and frankly, dangerous behaviour. 

He didn't discuss it with you at all, and secretly offered you to another man. Another man he'd never met, had no idea what sort of maniac he might be inviting into your bed, no idea what this man's sexual history was, nothing. I would have been very upset by this. And then he evidently argued with you when said no. This isn't normal, OP. It's not right that he pushed your sexual boundary and didn't immediately drop the whole idea when you expressed your discomfort and said no. 

Your husband showed incredibly poor judgment and a serious lack of respect for you. Think about what that says about him. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by ExpatInItaly

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, samander said:

I was pure chance.  We were at a restaurant, the waiter had a way too tight shirt on showing a six pack.  Apparently I kept looking and commenting so he secretly hit the waiter up.  Once we were back at the hotel he told me he had a surprise coming in a couple of hours. 

Your husband is the one who messed up getting involved in something he can't handle. Do not beg or apologize. He needs to get himself sorted out. 

He put you are a huge risk picking up some random. Get tested for STDs. Is your husband bi or was this his cuckold fantasy? He can't put you in that position then be mad at you for his own stupidity.

[samander]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

He put you are a huge risk picking up some random. Get tested for STDs. Is your husband bi or was this his cuckold fantasy? He can't put you in that position then be mad at you for his own stupidity.

He's not bi.  It wasn't cuckold either.  They both fully participated. just not with each other. 

 

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

He can't put you in that position then be mad at you for his own stupidity.

And yet he has.  I don't want to play the blame game.  I just want to get through this together and then set some clear defined boundaries moving forward, whether that be what happens next time or total 100% monogamy.

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, samander said:

They both fully participated. just not with each other. I just want to get through this together and then set some clear defined boundaries moving forward, whether that be what happens next time or total 100% monogamy.

It's hard to "set defined boundaries" with someone who is not mature enough to know themselves or their own limits. Such as in this case. It was his idea but then he went ballistic on you for going along with it.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Wiseman2

[samander]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's hard to "set defined boundaries" with someone who is not mature enough to know themselves or their own limits.

Very true, and yet I must try if I don't  want to lose my marriage.

[ExpatInItaly]

4 minutes ago, samander said:

Very true, and yet I must try if I don't  want to lose my marriage.

He has to try too, OP. And he is currently not trying at all. 

[samander]

5 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

He has to try too, OP. And he is currently not trying at all. 

Yes, I have a have a lot to consider.  First I just want him back home.

[Wiseman2]

21 minutes ago, samander said:

Very true, and yet I must try if I don't  want to lose my marriage.

It's not about "blame", its about responsibility and he's not taking responsibly for his actions or trying to make things right. Do not beg him to come home. Let him process and stew. It was a bit abusive to spring something like that on you as a "surprise", then act out like this as if you were the one who messed up.

[samander]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's not about "blame"

Can I ask, as a guy, is the kiss as he left wrong?  To paint the picture it was a rather passionate kiss, maybe 30 seconds.  It seems to be where the issue is.  He's not really made mention of the previous night where there was much more kissing and much much more.  I get the impression that once the experience was over then it was over and that maybe the kiss was reinitializing it?  Should I have just pushed him out the door?  Am I overthinking it?
And yes, I'm fully aware this is the exact things he should be discussing with me...

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, samander said:

Can I ask, as a guy, is the kiss as he left wrong?  

Bringing a random stranger to your hotel room to have sex with you is "wrong". However your husband is engaging in blame shifting by trying to make it about a kiss after a night of intercourse, seriously? Read up on "gaslighting".

[samander]

19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

ringing a random stranger to your hotel room to have sex with you is "wrong".

I'm not blameless there.  But even if it was entirely his fault I'm not going to throw away an otherwise great marriage over one mistake.  I don't believe he's gaslighting, from what I know that would involve him trying to get me to question what really happened.  He's not trying to do anything, he's not even talking.  There's been no debate about what actually happened.  Maybe I am naive?  At this point I could live with that if he came back.  I just want to start the conversation to see if we can save what we had.

[FMW]

First and foremost, there is no excuse for your husband to shut you out and refuse to communicate.

What was your thinking behind a 30 second kiss when telling the guy goodbye? (That's a serious question, not a put down)  I do kind of see why your husband would be bothered by that.  The sex was something you all agreed to, however last minute, but a long kiss after it was all over and done does seem to indicate emotion, or at least interest in the guy, not just sexual exploration. That's what you will need to be able to explain to your husband when and if he stops punishing you in this childish way.  

How long has it been since he moved out?  

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, samander said:

is the kiss as he left wrong?  To paint the picture it was a rather passionate kiss, maybe 30 seconds. 

I'm a woman, but I think this was too much, yes. Once the act was over, and your husband was no longer participating, the intimacy should have stopped. No more kisses. 

1 hour ago, samander said:

Should I have just pushed him out the door? 

More or less, yes. A simple "thanks for a great time, take care" would have been better. 

 

[Will am I]

It was indicated before. This is all about your husband’s insecurity and jealousy.

You guys have one shot and that is to make a joint decision to put it behind you, to agree that it was s bad idea, ro forgive eachother for your respective parts in the event and to recommit to eachother and face the future.

If either one of you two is not willing to do that, you’re better off divorcing and spending your precious time recovering from theheartbreak and finding someone new.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

49 minutes ago, samander said:

I'm not going to throw away an otherwise great marriage over one mistake.   he's not even talking. 

Ok he's stonewalling. And you aren't "throwing the marriage away", he is.

[stillafool]

30 seconds is a long kiss and if your husband was watching the entire time it probably seemed more like 3 minutes to him.  I can understand why he's upset but that's what he gets for setting this up in the first place.

[glows]

He may be hurt or upset but running to his parents seems very strange, like a toddler throwing a tantrum and going to his mother to suck his thumb. Usually couples invested in one another will not behave in such haste or react in such a way, realizing that their partner may not be around either - also, with utmost respect for one another and each others’ feelings. 

It’s not about the kiss but his reaction that would make me step back and wonder whether this person will continue reacting this way whenever he is hurt or intimidated. He retreats to his parents’ place because that’s where he feels most secure and it’s them against you, no longer a couple’s issue. I doubt he’s told his parents the sordid details. All they know is you’re the bad person who kissed another man. 

Your marriage is new and you’re no doubt wanting to bend yourself into a pretzel to have him come back. His leaving is not a reflection of you losing your marriage. It’s him turning his back on your marriage and running to mommy and daddy dear when things don’t go his way. 

Instead of spending your energies wondering or wanting him to come back (that’s what he wants), go about your life normally without batting an eye. He seeks attention the same way a young child does. Don’t give it to him. If he ever chooses to work with you you’ll discuss on adult and more mature terms.

[understand50]

I agree with Glows, your husband is being irrational.  He set it up, and gets upset with a long kiss?   Granted, you should not have done that, but you had sex with the guy the night before.  What did he expect?  You may want to turn this around and tell him you are reevaluating the marriage, as he seems immature, and you do not want to go tough life on egg shells.

Now, I would never invite another person into our marriage bed to have sex with myself or my wife, so I have no experience there, but I think I can say that you both are really lacking in open honest communication.  You need a long talk, all holds bared, on what happened, why it did and both your reactions to it.  He needs to own what he did, and you need to acknowledge you enjoyed it.  Ether way, group sex and swinging should be off the table.  Also, running off to mother is not a good sign of a mature man.   A mature man, stays and works though the issue, be it infidelity, addiction, or so fourth.

Do not take "pop" culture as a truth.  There are too many examples here and other places that show this.  Open marriages, swinging, and other stuff can be done by some, but I think the great majority find it devastating to their marriage.  One question to your husband would be to ask, "Why you thought this would be a good thing?" and "What did you expect at the end?".  "Where did you get this idea in the first place?"  You need to be grounded in life, and in marriage.   How you do that is a personal thing, but you need to have a code and follow it.

I hope this works out for you, and I wish you luck.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by understand50
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[mark clemson]

7 hours ago, samander said:

So is there a chance?

There's always a chance, but it sounds like this has "struck a nerve" on some deep-rooted insecurity that your husband may have not even been aware he had. Seeing the phone number in the trash bin should have been enough, but it wasn't.

It is also at least remotely possible that your husband wanted a divorce but didn't know how to go about and so thought of a way to create an "excuse" OR even that he is psychologically manipulating you to feel guilty so that you will be more willing to cater to him and "less problematic" in a divorce.  Not saying for sure this is the case, but certainly this sort of thing happens occasionally.

Given how strange/incongruent the situation is, it would not shock me if you one day found out he was having an affair. Again, not saying this is so, but sometimes when there is no good logical explanation it makes sense to explore what alternative explanations there might be. Insecurity on his part might be the whole of it, but dunno.

I think what you do is give him space and "go your own way" for at least a while. Recognize that whatever this is, it has a lot more to do with him than with you or with anything you did. Don't get caught up in some sort of unnecessary "guilt spiral" over it. IF he decides he must divorce, accept it (as it was probably inevitable) but also show some spine and do not attempt to cater to him by giving up anything to which you may be fairly entitled.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, samander said:

We reconnected by pure chance when we were 21 and married two years later. We’ve been married three years, 2 months.

There seems to be a lot about him that you're unaware of. Everything from high-risk proclivities to immaturity to jealousy. Take this time out to reconsider some things.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Wiseman2