Should I try again?

[RosePSmith]

I’ll try to keep it short. My partner of 2 years told me that my sister had messaged him to meet up when she was drunk. He told me during an argument - he was spending a lot of time at my house and I needed more time to myself and wanted some time with my adult children. He struggled with this and wanted to be at my house and sleep over 7 days a week / this led to resentment on both sides which impacted on our relationship. Back to my sister…. I later found out that she had told my mum and another sister that he had been messaging her to meet up. He denies this and says he only messaged her re birthday ideas etc.  I’ve never had issues trusting him. My sister is frequently over familiar with other peoples partners which has created issues in the past. She drinks a lot and is lonely. My other sister or mum didn’t come to me to tell me. Neither he nor my sister have the messages. He says he loves me and it was wrong not to tell me but he didn’t want the drama as we were struggling to get along. This was about 6 weeks ago and he’s been seeing a counsellor. My adult children used to like him but now think he’s an a******e. I feel hugely let down by all 4 of them. I want nothing more to do with the sister involved / my youngest sister. I went to see my parents the day after I found out and I was upset, angry and confused. My mum hadn’t contacted me since and I told her that I was upset by this. She then made it all about her because I was upset and angry when I went round the day after I found out - so she / my mum is now the victim. She left the room saying she didn’t want ‘another shouting match’.  She’s always behaved like this and will cry or sulk to avoid taking any responsibility. It feels like diversion tactics to side with my youngest sister who has always been the favourite. I’m the bad one for being upset with them. It’s all a huge mess and I can’t see a way forward. I’ve been angry with my ex for 6 weeks and have refused all attempts to reconcile with him. Before all of this we would fall out a lot - the root cause being resentment over him feeling rejected and me not feeling like he respected my boundaries - he would regularly pack all his stuff up and tell me we were over. We got together during lockdown so we were in a ‘bubble’ for the first 6 months. Other than that we got along really well and had a lot in common - but got into a viscous cycle. I miss him but can’t see how it can be resolved. I’m 51. **PS he always paid his way but we spent more time at my house because my 18 year old son lived with me. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by RosePSmith
Extra info

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, RosePSmith said:

My adult children used to like him but now think he’s an a******e. - he would regularly pack all his stuff up and tell me we were over. 

Sorry this is happening. Your children are unfortunately correct. Your sister has a drinking problem, so steer clear of her completely. Your BF should not have been communicating with her at all. He should not be camping out at your home, even if he pays for a few things.

You dodged a bullet. Don't try to fix or change him. He won't have an epiphany in therapy and become a decent non-abusive man. Change the locks, delete him and his people from all your social media and messaging apps. Your kids, even if adults come first.

[glows]

1 hour ago, RosePSmith said:

I’ll try to keep it short. My partner of 2 years told me that my sister had messaged him to meet up when she was drunk. He told me during an argument - he was spending a lot of time at my house and I needed more time to myself and wanted some time with my adult children. He struggled with this and wanted to be at my house and sleep over 7 days a week / this led to resentment on both sides which impacted on our relationship. Back to my sister…. I later found out that she had told my mum and another sister that he had been messaging her to meet up. He denies this and says he only messaged her re birthday ideas etc.  I’ve never had issues trusting him. My sister is frequently over familiar with other peoples partners which has created issues in the past. She drinks a lot and is lonely. My other sister or mum didn’t come to me to tell me. Neither he nor my sister have the messages. He says he loves me and it was wrong not to tell me but he didn’t want the drama as we were struggling to get along. This was about 6 weeks ago and he’s been seeing a counsellor. My adult children used to like him but now think he’s an a******e. I feel hugely let down by all 4 of them. I want nothing more to do with the sister involved / my youngest sister. I went to see my parents the day after I found out and I was upset, angry and confused. My mum hadn’t contacted me since and I told her that I was upset by this. She then made it all about her because I was upset and angry when I went round the day after I found out - so she / my mum is now the victim. She left the room saying she didn’t want ‘another shouting match’.  She’s always behaved like this and will cry or sulk to avoid taking any responsibility. It feels like diversion tactics to side with my youngest sister who has always been the favourite. I’m the bad one for being upset with them. It’s all a huge mess and I can’t see a way forward. I’ve been angry with my ex for 6 weeks and have refused all attempts to reconcile with him. Before all of this we would fall out a lot - the root cause being resentment over him feeling rejected and me not feeling like he respected my boundaries - he would regularly pack all his stuff up and tell me we were over. We got together during lockdown so we were in a ‘bubble’ for the first 6 months. Other than that we got along really well and had a lot in common - but got into a viscous cycle. I miss him but can’t see how it can be resolved. I’m 51. **PS he always paid his way but we spent more time at my house because my 18 year old son lived with me. 

Does he have his own place or does he live with his parents or family/roommates? I’m curious why the need or desperation to live with you. Is he employed? 

Someone who loves and cares about you will naturally respect your needs or space. Something is overriding that and he isn’t able to respect what you need in the relationship. 

Trying again is futile if there’s no mutual respect. Or, if you’re incompatible and want different things. 

Regarding your family, let it blow over and keep your distance from your troublemaker sister. Resist talking about your personal life with them. You see and know what they are so coordinate your life around that. It doesn’t matter whether there was anything going on between your ex and your sister. She’s not one to be trusted and your ex is disrespectful. Move forward.

[RosePSmith]

He has his own place - we started seeing each other during lockdown and formed a ‘bubble’ - so this was a factor. I live with my son and he lived alone and got lonely. 

[glows]

2 minutes ago, RosePSmith said:

He has his own place - we started seeing each other during lockdown and formed a ‘bubble’ - so this was a factor. I live with my son and he lived alone and got lonely. 

Hopefully he has a life outside of your relationship. I’d be wary of dating another person who behaves like a child, or creating a parent/child dynamic. He seems very emotionally dependent on you but I could be wrong. Why is he lonely? Did he meet friends or take time to pursue his own hobbies and interests or was he involved in anything he found meaningful? 

[RosePSmith]

Lockdown was definitely a factor in us both letting other things slip.I agree that he was somewhat emotionally dependent. He works hard and has a good job. I just can’t make sense of whether it is worth another go. I completely agree regarding your comments about contact with my family. I’ve started going to the gym again and volunteering whilst I’m on school holidays from work.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by RosePSmith
Typo

[stillafool]

9 hours ago, RosePSmith said:

I went to see my parents the day after I found out and I was upset, angry and confused.

May I ask why you didn't confront your sister who started all of this instead of your parents?

[RosePSmith]

She sent me a message saying sorry for not telling me. I replied that she wasn’t telling the whole truth and she’d previously caused problems in family and friend’s relationships because of her drinking and over familiarity and she didn’t reply. She has got drunk and lifted her dress to show her bum and thong in front of friends and family when she thinks others aren’t looking. My parents favour her and the rest of us make excuses for her and them. I went to see my parents because I was upset. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by RosePSmith
Extra

[RosePSmith]

She’s the little she sister of 4. All of us were physically assaulted by our parents expect her - but she witnessed it. We have all been damaged by our parents. They still seem to favour her take and take side. They were emotionally abusive parents and still are. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by RosePSmith
Extra info

[stillafool]

21 minutes ago, RosePSmith said:

She’s the little she sister of 4. All of us were physically assaulted by our parents expect her - but she witnessed it. We have all been damaged by our parents. They still seem to favour her take and take side. They were emotionally abusive parents and still are. 

 

30 minutes ago, RosePSmith said:

I went to see my parents because I was upset. 

Did you go to them for comfort?

[ExpatInItaly]

No, it is absolutely not worth trying again.

This sounds like a very dysfunctional relationship that was suffocating you. Him threatening to leave all the time is toxic. Be done with him, and with certain family members. None of them has your best interest in mind. 

[mark clemson]

If you're unable to see texts, I don't think you can realistically determined who started what or what was said (or done) in any communications. IF you really care to find all this out, you'd need to ask one of them to recover those somehow.

I think the root of your problems with your BF (prior to this) are that you and he have different attachment styles. You can research this on the internet and draw your own conclusions (or seek out a therapist if you care to), but I *think* that you are somewhat strongly avoidant and he is somewhat strongly insecure in terms of your attachment styles. This generates a relationship that both tend to want (until one or the other goes to far, which seems to have happened in your case) but with "turbulence".

On 7/26/2022 at 5:44 AM, RosePSmith said:

 I went to see my parents the day after I found out and I was upset, angry and confused. My mum hadn’t contacted me since and I told her that I was upset by this. She then made it all about her because I was upset and angry when I went round the day after I found out - so she / my mum is now the victim. She left the room saying she didn’t want ‘another shouting match’.  She’s always behaved like this and will cry or sulk to avoid taking any responsibility. It feels like diversion tactics to side with my youngest sister who has always been the favourite. I’m the bad one for being upset with them.

So there have been prior shouting matches? You seem to expect others to accept you "running things to ground" while upset, angry, and confused. Feeling upset is understandable - but, this is a two year relationship, not a multi-decade marriage you are talking about. How about taking a few deep breaths and having calm and rational discussions about what may or may not have occurred? The fact you may have been betrayed and are upset isn't an excuse for venting on those around you.

I see a lot of dysfunction here. Perhaps you were raised in a dysfunctional environment and see it as normal, but I think whatever the root causes it's clearly impacting your relationships with partners and family. You don't have to accept your partner's or your family members' behaviors or attitudes, but what has venting on partners and family members ever gotten anyone?  YOU and your own behaviors are a part of the larger picture here, too.

Edited July 28, 2022 by mark clemson

[glows]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:35 AM, RosePSmith said:

Lockdown was definitely a factor in us both letting other things slip.I agree that he was somewhat emotionally dependent. He works hard and has a good job. I just can’t make sense of whether it is worth another go. I completely agree regarding your comments about contact with my family. I’ve started going to the gym again and volunteering whilst I’m on school holidays from work.  

If you attempt to reconcile do you think anything changes in terms of him respecting your boundaries or wanting to be at your place 7 days a week? I'd forget about your sister. She seems to be behaving as she always does. The neverending story is that it's always about her and her attention-needing antics or ability to draw attention to herself despite her making a fool out of herself. The issue is your ex-bf and the way he didn't respect what you wanted or needed in the relationship. Don't get sidetracked with the issues with your family.

I'd also practice some healthy distance from them (your mother and sisters). I agree with Mark's comment your family dynamics seem to be very dysfunctional.

Edited July 28, 2022 by glows

[RosePSmith]

Mark - it wasn’t a shouting match - I was using my mum’s words. I went to my parents house on instinct the next day because I was upset and I couldn’t make sense of it. My mum has my whole life cried and sulked to manipulate my dad and all 4 daughters. But wrongly I still go and seek comfort on occasion when I’m upset. She hasn’t once since checked in on me she since. I don’t shout at people or seek out confrontation. 

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

If you're unable to see texts, I don't think you can realistically determined who started what or what was said (or done) in any communications. IF you really care to find all this out, you'd need to ask one of them to recover those somehow.

I think the root of your problems with your BF (prior to this) are that you and he have different attachment styles. You can research this on the internet and draw your own conclusions (or seek out a therapist if you care to), but I *think* that you are somewhat strongly avoidant and he is somewhat strongly insecure in terms of your attachment styles. This generates a relationship that both tend to want (until one or the other goes to far, which seems to have happened in your case) but with "turbulence".

So there have been prior shouting matches? You seem to expect others to accept you "running things to ground" while upset, angry, and confused. Feeling upset is understandable - but, this is a two year relationship, not a multi-decade marriage you are talking about. How about taking a few deep breaths and having calm and rational discussions about what may or may not have occurred? The fact you may have been betrayed and are upset isn't an excuse for venting on those around you.

I see a lot of dysfunction here. Perhaps you were raised in a dysfunctional environment and see it as normal, but I think whatever the root causes it's clearly impacting your relationships with partners and family. You don't have to accept your partner's or your family members' behaviors or attitudes, but what has venting on partners and family members ever gotten anyone?  YOU and your own behaviors are a part of the larger picture here, too.

Mark - I completely agree - it’s not an excuse to vent.  It wasn’t a shouting match - I was using my mum’s words. I went to my parents house on instinct the next day because I was upset and I couldn’t make sense of it. My mum has my whole life cried and sulked to manipulate my dad and all of us 4 daughters. We all as sisters acknowledge that but for some reason allow her to manipulate us. But wrongly I still go and seek comfort on occasion when I’m upset. She hasn’t once checked in on me she since. I don’t shout at people or seek out confrontation. I have asked and he avoids giving a full response and says he can’t remember as he’d been drinking. I don’t believe this because I think you would naturally need to go over the messages the next day. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by RosePSmith

[RosePSmith]

I agree about the attachment styles and I have read up on this thorough work and previously from a personal point of interest. I also agree with glows comments about my sister. She has always ‘taken’ a lot and as her big sister I’ve been there to help, support and pick up the pieces. I’ve had her and my boys to stay for a couple of months when she split up with their dad. My son gave up his room for them and on the day she left him, I left work to pick her boys up while she stayed at work - and the headteacher of their school had to check with social services because dad was already on school site. So I have been there for her every step of the way. Even taking her home from hospital to my house after she had taken an overdose at 18 because my mum is cold and wouldn’t have cared for her. So this is all very hurtful. 

[mark clemson]

18 minutes ago, RosePSmith said:

I don’t shout at people or seek out confrontation. I have asked and he avoids giving a full response and says he can’t remember as he’d been drinking. I don’t believe this because I think you would naturally need to go over the messages the next day. 

Ok, fair enough.

I agree the idea that he doesn't remember this is suspicious and I would have a hard time believing it as well.

There is no "law" that you have to tolerate whatever this was from either your BF or your sister. If she has a tendency to "hunt" your BFs then (although it's always easier said than done) warning the BF about it and keeping his contact with her to the minimum possible is probably helpful.

The flip side is, of course and unfortunately, that if you have a BF who really wants to cheat that will probably happen. I don't have a read on whether you should take him back or not, but it sounds like you're perhaps not interested in that. It sounds like him drinking less would probably benefit him and, IF he stays in your life, you as well by extension.

[RosePSmith]

She has caused problems in her friend’s and family’s relationship because of over familiarity. My partner was aware and whilst he avoided her and refused to help her with diy (he’s a joiner) he has gone on to put us in or allow this situation that I currently find unforgivable. She has flirted with him at a family party at my my house more than once and I have calmly and low key asked him to remove himself from the situation - which he didn’t do and had been drinking. I’ve never worried about him flirting with anyone else. We are 10 years older than her and he should know better. He has had a toxic upbringing and I understand it’s complex but I can’t tolerate lying. I’ve trusted him implicitly because other than this he’s not given me a reason to doubt him. She flirts and excuses it as ‘I’m your little sister and you’re like my big brother’ - it’s happened with other partners, my other sister’s partners and her friends. I’ve never felt threatened by this and I felt secure enough in my relationship that I didn’t see it as a threat. I feel let down by him that he’s been so weak and it’s such a cliché. 

[stillafool]

59 minutes ago, RosePSmith said:

I agree about the attachment styles and I have read up on this thorough work and previously from a personal point of interest. I also agree with glows comments about my sister. She has always ‘taken’ a lot and as her big sister I’ve been there to help, support and pick up the pieces. I’ve had her and my boys to stay for a couple of months when she split up with their dad. My son gave up his room for them and on the day she left him, I left work to pick her boys up while she stayed at work - and the headteacher of their school had to check with social services because dad was already on school site. So I have been there for her every step of the way. Even taking her home from hospital to my house after she had taken an overdose at 18 because my mum is cold and wouldn’t have cared for her. So this is all very hurtful. 

Wouldn't it have been better to let your sister and her son go to your parents to stay since they get along so better?  Your sister seems to stress you out.  Maybe you should just let them deal with her.  If you leave her alone, let her make her own mistakes and stop support she will be forced to get her act together or fail.  Nothing teaches like experience.

[RosePSmith]

My parents aren’t that kind of parents. My other middle sister, who is single and struggles with ill health and lived alone had a recent spell of being in and out of hospital. My mum wouldn’t have her at their house even for a couple of nights when she came out.  They have 2 bedrooms, but no bed in the spare room. My dad just goes along with it.  So I suppose as on older sister you take up the slack. That’s just how it’s always been. At the time I thought me and my youngest sister were close but I’ve not realised until now that it’s been quite one sided . 

Edited July 29, 2022 by RosePSmith
Explanation

[RosePSmith]

I’m going to have no contact with my sister and minimal contact with my mum. In my family - there’s a culture of not addressing things with my parents - and I think this is due to my mum’s sulking and crying. So there’s no point trying to explain myself further. I’ve asked my ex for more info multiple times and he’s currently making all sorts of excuses whilst saying ‘have you not thought of forgiveness?’ and I’ve not shown him any care since it all happened. I’ve said that you can’t forgive if you don’t know what you’re forgiving and that it’s hard to show care when someone has betrayed your trust in this way. Looking like I’ll never really know, which I knew already,  but can’t help wanting answers and wishing things were different. 

[Wiseman2]

Have looked into Al-Anon? It's info and support for people whose lives involve alcoholics. It may help with insight and any role you've had in enabling your sister/family.

As far as your partner, he should have employed appropriate boundaries and not been given the green light to help enable your sister.

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, RosePSmith said:

 I’ve said that you can’t forgive if you don’t know what you’re forgiving.

I think this is basically what it comes down to.

Is there a way to recover the deleted messages?

[RosePSmith]

They’re FB messages I think. He said it ‘started on FB’ so obviously led somewhere else after that. So that’s not good either He’s adamant that ‘he’s sorry, nothing happened, wants ti fix things’ etc so I really feel it’s up to him to make things right. I would have come to him straight away with any contact from another man or one of his brothers etc. 

[BrinnM]

Oh my, I am sorry you’ve got to deal not only with a disloyal partner, but also with a dysfunctional, unsupportive family. 
And I totally get it when you say you can’t forgive something if you don’t know the full truth. That’s ludicrous if that’s what they’re asking. 

I would probably cut the whole bunch out of my life. Ex and most of the family included. Seriously. Abusive parents who never apologized for their behavior? And they’re still super-unsupportive? Yeah, there’s no room for this. Blood is not always thicker than water. I’d keep my distance. Same with drunk sis, cover-up sis, and drunk ex. They’re making excuses. She was drunk, he was drunk, therefore they both can’t remember, messages are suddenly gone (why make the effort to delete them, and both of them? C’mon) …… I don’t buy it.
 

He’d have to make some REAL, honest effort if he wants the relationship back. So far he’s done nothing, other than whine, avoid the unpleasant topic, and ask you for forgiveness. That’s not how it works. This relationship isn’t worth much, sorry to say. I hope your 3rd sister who apparently wasn’t involved is somebody you can get along with. The rest of the family seems callous and heartless. And maybe this incident was a sign from heaven to make you see that these people aren’t good for you, even if some of them are called “family”. The cold hard truth is that all of them went behind your back, and that’s not what family does. Maybe they don’t know better, maybe they were never taught what being caring & being loyal means, or maybe they’re just a**h***s - but it doesn’t matter. If they hurt you, they’re not family. They’re just relatives. 
 

[glows]

17 hours ago, RosePSmith said:

I’m going to have no contact with my sister and minimal contact with my mum. In my family - there’s a culture of not addressing things with my parents - and I think this is due to my mum’s sulking and crying. So there’s no point trying to explain myself further. I’ve asked my ex for more info multiple times and he’s currently making all sorts of excuses whilst saying ‘have you not thought of forgiveness?’ and I’ve not shown him any care since it all happened. I’ve said that you can’t forgive if you don’t know what you’re forgiving and that it’s hard to show care when someone has betrayed your trust in this way. Looking like I’ll never really know, which I knew already,  but can’t help wanting answers and wishing things were different. 

Has your communication always been this way with each other? That’s deep resentment on his part if he can’t feel comfortable around you and an arrogant streak touting forgiveness and believing that he’s entitled to a relationship with you without putting in the effort and work required for open communication. If he’s a drinker or an alcoholic, let go. You can never compete with someone who is addicted to something else, alcohol or other substance. 

Is there anyone else you can talk to when you’re feeling down or upset? Stay busy and occupied. Good that you’re moving on from your mother’s issues. Your sister is fine on her own. It’s ok to let siblings go. You have different lives and are not responsible for one another.