Second Date Questions [UPDATE: Date 6 and beyond]

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, dragonwalker said:

, I’m not that physically attracted to her 

Well you've been patient enough to make it to date 6 and still no chemistry or attraction. It may be time to set each other free and call it quits. Especially when you are tallying more reasons you don't like her than ones you do 

[dragonwalker]

26 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Well you've been patient enough to make it to date 6 and still no chemistry or attraction. It may be time to set each other free and call it quits. Especially when you are tallying more reasons you don't like her than ones you do 

I think my intent may have been misinterpreted. I really do think there may be something here. Clearly after all this time before this women if I've had such limited success I'm not inspiring confidence in the women I'm seeing whether that be physically, personality, or compatibility. Now here, I've met a women I deeply respect and who seems to have an interest in me great enough to be willingly to see me till now. Who actually reached out to me first. We share some important commonalities among them is the tendency to be less expressive so I think because of the type of people we are, we are hindering ourselves and find it difficult to break out of it. I think it's classic inexperience and fear of failure rooted in poor confidence in these matters. 

When I say I'm not that physically attracted to her I think a big part is just her personal style which doesn't flatter her at all (she basically dresses like a grandma) but she's not physically unattractive due to something in her control which to me means that I should be even more forgiving of that. For example, I am short, which is generally not attractive but I can't change it so I feel hypocritical putting much importance on something similar that doesn't speak to who she is as a person. 

I do want to continue seeing her and can imagine a future but I'd like to know if she shares that feeling and how we can see if that direction will work. If she truly just needs more time, I am willing to put in the time, money, and energy to do it. I just want to know if a future is possible and maybe what I need to do as a man to inspire greater confidence.   

 

     

[ccas93]

wow, sounds like a giant yawn fest. Why do you "respect her so deeply" and want a future with her when you guys talk about mundane stuff over lunch and walks during the day, she has nothing going on in her life, won't escalate physically, and you're not even physically attracted to her?

she probably doesn't play games and is quick to go out with you because she doesn't have anyone else who will sit through dates with her.

 

[dragonwalker]

16 minutes ago, ccas93 said:

wow, sounds like a giant yawn fest. Why do you "respect her so deeply" and want a future with her when you guys talk about mundane stuff over lunch and walks during the day, she has nothing going on in her life, won't escalate physically, and you're not even physically attracted to her?

she probably doesn't play games and is quick to go out with you because she doesn't have anyone else who will sit through dates with her.

 

Well I did skip on some other details to keep to the important items. I deeply respect the fact that she is a medical doctor and the effort and work that goes into doing that. It's something that really demonstrates a great work ethic and intelligence (along with other things she's said) so that's what I mean by that and I do think some of her professional success and traits pass over to the personal side as well. 

About it being a yawn fest. You're probably right and by the standards of many people what we've done (during these 5 dates we have gone and done different things but I didn't want to mention them all) might be considered "boring." However, being real with myself that's the type of person I am meaning I don't need to find myself doing something adrenaline pumping or constantly traveling or doing something very active to be entertained in my life and I get the sense that she falls under that more calm and introverted influence as well. In theory, I think the idea of finding someone more adventurous than myself sounds nice, in reality I think that person wouldn't find me "interesting" enough. For example, neither of us like to drink at all which is something I find extremely rare these days and pleasantly surprised because on the one hand I won't have that pressure to do something I really don't like doing but force myself to on occasion just so I'm not sticking out like a sore thumb among coworkers, friends, and society in general. There are a number of other unusual quirks both of us seem to have. Maybe we are just two awkward people who recognize that in each other.     

It was a bit harsh of me to say she has nothing going on in her life because she does do new and different things but not big and time consuming things at the current moment like I am working on a graduate degree for example. About the physical part, yes I do think my desire for that is measurably greater (unless she conceals it well because frankly I think I go to some lengths to suppress my own sexuality on a daily basis) than hers but I want to be mindful of putting to much weight on something so superficial.

When I say she doesn't play games it's also a lot about her doing what she says. For example when we plan out and do what we plan she is precise about it. We agree to a a time, place, activity and she is there on time without this or that excuse. It's harder for me to describe but her actions demonstrate some level of respect that dates I've been on seem to lack. People coming late, people cancelling, people flaking, people seeming to be happy to be on a date with you but then ghosting you. For example, something simple I've noticed is that like myself she doesn't check her phone when we are together. Not that I mind when a date does but there is something intentional about her not doing it (I've seen her reach in her purse to silence it for example rather than take it out and get absorbed in it) it's something that I can relate to because I try to do the same thing.

I feel like I understand her more without her necessarily telling me.      

[Wiseman2]

It's going well. She seems to have integrity and a refined demeanor and that's fine. However you seem to keep mentioning that she dresses too frumpy for you. Why is that such a problem if you actually do think she's attractive enough and otherwise compatible? Maybe she has some class, who knows?

Edited September 11, 2022 by Wiseman2

[introverted1]

Have you had any personal conversation, such as what you are looking for, when your last relationships were, etc.? Have you had any physical contact (other than the hand-holding and ear kiss on date 2)?  Basically, what distinguishes this from a friendship?

[dragonwalker]

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

Have you had any personal conversation, such as what you are looking for, when your last relationships were, etc.? Have you had any physical contact (other than the hand-holding and ear kiss on date 2)?  Basically, what distinguishes this from a friendship?

That’s an excellent question and during todays outing I was planning on asking some “harder” questions. I think your question about what makes this different between from a friendship is an excellent question because there hasn’t been any other physical contact aside from the 2nd date moments and aside from the hug I give her when I meet her and the one I give when we leave. 

[dragonwalker]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's going well. She seems to have integrity and a refined demeanor and that's fine. However you seem to keep mentioning that she dresses too frumpy for you. Why is that such a problem if you actually do think she's attractive enough and otherwise compatible? Maybe she has some class, who knows?

I think the clothes thing Bothers me a little because as I mentioned one main issue is my attractiveness to her is relatively low but In my mind I’m justifying that in part due to her own conservative style and trying to hope and imagine my attraction to her would go up if her dress was more updated.

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s a matter of her dressing with class and I’m not seeing it because I have shown her picture to my mother and another women my age  who instantly understood what I meant. 
 

It’s like a combination of ill fitting clothes, usually quite bulky and covered up almost as if she’s concealing her figure. However,  I cant confirm she’s trying to conceal anything and from outward appearances and when I give her a hug she seems quite slender (which I like and prefer  anyway) so I think it’s a facet of her personality. Interestingly she’s said she watches product reviews of high end products, clothes and accessories online but doesn’t buy and lives vicariously through them. I kind of relate because I’m usually quite careful with my money when it comes to clothes and dress relatively modestly but I think my style is much more on par to typical/average standards.

Edited September 11, 2022 by dragonwalker

[Weezy1973]

I’d say you two are doing really well. It’s very likely she also has insecurities and lacks confidence in dating and romance like you. And to date, you’re both playing it very safe. After 6 dates and 2 months I think you’re going to need to start taking some (small) risks. Something like expressing that you really like her and deeply respect her (like you’ve described for us) and ask her if she would like to be exclusive. It’s very, very likely you both aren’t dating anyone else, and perhaps that’s already assumed. But letting her know you have no interest in anyone else or keeping your options open might give her some comfort and allow her to open up a bit more.

As far as the physical goes, you can talk a bit about it with her. In most dating circumstances I’d say just go in for a kiss etc. and see what happens, but given both your personalities, I think just discussing it a bit might be appropriate. Letting her know you would like things to escalate physically while not wanting to pressure her to move faster than she’s comfortable with. Sometimes women will dress very conservatively to subconsciously thwart sexual advances if they’ve experienced sexual trauma on their past. Not saying this is necessarily the case, but something to keep in mind as a possibility. 
 

And another next step at some point will be inviting each other to your respective homes. This shows some vulnerability as you’re giving each other a window into your lives etc. 

[poppyfields]

51 minutes ago, dragonwalker said:

I think the clothes thing bothers me a little because as.   I mentioned one main issue is my attractiveness to her is relatively low but In my mind I’m justifying that in part due to her own conservative style and trying to hope and imagine my attraction to her would go up if her dress was more updated.

Just had a chance to catch up with this thread, and have some thoughts relating to the above quoted -  physical attraction and physical intimacy and why your physical attraction/connection hasn't quite caught up with your mental connection.  I don't believe it's because of her clothes.

I know that for some men, sex is the goal and once that goal has been accomplished, they're gone.  This is true, I acknowledge that.  For some men. 

However, there is another element to sexual relations, attraction and intimacy I've learned about from reading various books written by reputable psychologists, talking to men and experiencing in my own life. 

And that is for some men, they actually need physical intimacy, NOT necessarily full blown sexual intercourse, but some form of physical affection (hand-holding, kissing, cuddling) in order to feel physical and sexual attraction to a woman.

None of that has been happening in six dates.  She recoiled when you held her hand, doesn't respond to kissing and literally no physical gestures from her indicating her attraction to you!

As such, you question her attraction to you (as well you should) and it's left you feeling ambivalent and has caused you to question your own attraction to her as well. 

I'm sorry to say but your relationship sounds off to me, something's missing. 

And that something is mutual physical chemistry, energy, attraction which is what differentiates a romantic relationship from a friendship.

It's a mistake imo to dismiss physical attraction as not being important, it's very important and it goes much deeper than merely finding someone attractive.

You two are at a stand-still.  You're both too afraid to take that leap from what appears to be a friendship into a romance.

You claim she's "shy" (which I don't believe is the reason) and you seem all too willing to accept this.

Meanwhile there's nothing happening for you as far as physical and sexual attraction (nor for her) and this "friendship" you've got going is eventually going to die of attrition.

Assuming you want this to be a romantic relationship, one in which you are both "attracted to" each other, mentally, emotionally, physically and even spiritually, you need to push the envelope a bit. 

A gentle nudge.   It's time. 

Try cuddling on couch, holding her hand, give her a gentle kiss (on lips). 

If sher recoiles, ask her why.  

Talk to her, communicate.  Not in an accusatory, demanding way, but let her know that's what you need to continue forward in a romantic sense and to determine if a physical connection is even possible! 

If you don't, I envision your interaction heading straight into never-never land. 

Good luck..

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by poppyfields

[dragonwalker]

17 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Just had a chance to catch up with this thread, and have some thoughts relating to the above quoted -  physical attraction and physical intimacy and why your physical attraction/connection hasn't quite caught up with your mental connection.  I don't believe it's because of her clothes.

I know that for some men, sex is the goal and once that goal has been accomplished, they're gone.  This is true, I acknowledge that.  For some men. 

However, there is another element to sexual relations, attraction and intimacy I've learned about from reading various books written by reputable psychologists, talking to men and experiencing in my own life. 

And that is for some men, they actually need physical intimacy, NOT necessarily full blown sexual intercourse, but some form of physical affection (hand-holding, kissing, cuddling) in order to feel physical and sexual attraction to a woman.

None of that has been happening in six dates.  She recoiled when you held her hand, doesn't respond to kissing and literally no physical gestures from her indicating her attraction to you!

As such, you question her attraction to you (as well you should) and it's left you feeling ambivalent and has caused you to question your own attraction to her as well. 

I'm sorry to say but your relationship sounds off to me, something's missing. 

And that something is mutual physical chemistry, energy, attraction which is what differentiates a romantic relationship from a friendship.

It's a mistake imo to dismiss physical attraction as not being important, it's very important and it goes much deeper than merely finding someone attractive.

You two are at a stand-still.  You're both too afraid to take that leap from what appears to be a friendship into a romance.

You claim she's "shy" (which I don't believe is the reason) and you seem all too willing to accept this.

Meanwhile there's nothing happening for you as far as physical and sexual attraction (nor for her) and this "friendship" you've got going is eventually going to die of attrition.

Assuming you want this to be a romantic relationship, one in which you are both "attracted to" each other, mentally, emotionally, physically and even spiritually, you need to push the envelope a bit. 

A gentle nudge.   It's time. 

Try cuddling on couch, holding her hand, give her a gentle kiss (on lips). 

If sher recoiles, ask her why.  

Talk to her, communicate.  Not in an accusatory, demanding way, but let her know that's what you need to continue forward in a romantic sense and to determine if a physical connection is even possible! 

If you don't, I envision your interaction heading straight into never-never land. 

Good luck..

 

 

 

Ok good points but a few things to clarify. We've been on 5 dates, today would be the 6th. She didn't recoil when I held her hand in day 2 but more of just sort of limp wristed it until after about 10 seconds her hand moved away. I think there is a distinction because when I think recoil I'm thinking something very surprising and/or unpleasant happened and I didn't get the sense she reacted that way. 

The physical part yes I'd agree in part because I'm lacking validation otherwise that things are as they should be other than the fact she seems fine and happy to meet up with me. We talk pretty freely to each other but I do think there is an element of shyness when it comes to bringing things from the friend level to the romantic. For me, I do have a nervousness and timidness when it comes to the romantic that I can't seem to shake that's not there when just talking normally. For example, believe it or not I was in sales for about 8 years where I talked to people in person very often on a daily basis (and at least decent at it) so it's not that I'm not socialized that way. I don't mind speaking in public is another example and can do well with confidence (when prepared lol) but at the end of the day my nature though is introverted as all these things do drain me and I don't get more energy from them. 

On the romantic side my confidence in acting just collapses and the transferability of my normal speaking and social skills just seem to be blocked by a cloud of self-doubt and I become very conscious and frankly just weak. I'm better now and at least in theory I know that rejection is perfectly fine and doesn't reflect on the quality of person I am just that I'm not a good fit but in practice it's just hard psychologically to do something so many people seem to have no qualms about. This might be classified as a type of social anxiety and yes I recognized this years ago and I did seek professional help for some time and the conclusion was "nothing is wrong" and that I just needed to feel ok "putting myself out there" 

This is how I feel and what I'm up against in my head and I have an inkling that maybe my date may have some similar obstacles or feelings so I'm trying not to judge and compare the speed at which we do things against the typical norm. Like in my head I'd love to hold her hand, cuddle or kiss her but again the mental block. It's as if she initiated it would be perfectly fine but for me to do it it's like climbing a mountain and the general expectation is that the man should try first (which I've tried!).    

[poppyfields]

31 minutes ago, dragonwalker said:

Ok good points but a few things to clarify. We've been on 5 dates, today would be the 6th. She didn't recoil when I held her hand in day 2 but more of just sort of limp wristed it until after about 10 seconds her hand moved away. I think there is a distinction because when I think recoil I'm thinking something very surprising and/or unpleasant happened and I didn't get the sense she reacted that way. 

^Fair enough however I don't think it matters much whether it was 5 dates or 6, it's been a fair number of dates and nothing is happening in the romance department, that was my only point about that. 

Same with the word "recoil," her hand went limp, she pulled it away,

It was a very simple gesture on your part, and she was unresponsive. 

Whether it's shyness or fear of intimacy (imo it's the latter), it all points to the same thing - nothing is happening.

Admittedly you're not even all that "attracted to" her, whether that's due to your own fears of intimacy or shyness, that's for you to determine. 

But I would not dismiss the possibility that it's  about fear, for the both of you. 

All that said, every couple has their own dynamic, what works for them, what they're comfortable with and not comfortable with.

This sounds comfortable for you, it suits you.  It's safe.  Which is fine, no judgment.

However, if there comes a time wherein you are no longer comfortable with it and desire more intimacy including physically, you will need to push the envelope a bit. 

I don't think in this case it's going to happen naturally and organically as with most couples, for whom this type of dynamic of no physical affection (not even talking about sex, just simple physical gestures indicating attraction) would work for them.

But there's a lid for every pot as they say so enjoy and be happy. 💛

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by poppyfields

[Lotsgoingon]

Uh, I don't think you can talk yourself out of thinking someone is unattractive.

Attraction (the getting started attraction) is largely unconscious and mysterious. It's more reflex than decision. Now, once we recognize that reflex attraction, then it's time to think and evaluate their other qualities to make sure the person is good for us. 

I don't think either of you is that attracted to the other.  Your fear is there. But I'm not sure fear blocks attraction--it merely makes us goofy about expressing attraction. 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Lotsgoingon

[dragonwalker]

Ok, so I just had my 6th date and I think it went well. We met for food and I popped the question. The one where I asked her about how she was feeling things were going and how I wanted to know what she felt about going forward romantically. That started a whole conversation about how from her family background the showing of affection was very limited but that she felt what we had was a good thing and expressed her interest to continue seeing each other. I agreed that I had some of the exact same experiences growing up and about challenges expressing affection and romance and it really felt like we had a heart to heart conversation. I sensed at that moment we may have connected on some memory of pain relating to the same challenge but even so I think it was a bonding moment. I told her about how I felt she was smart, intelligent and beautiful and a desire to continue seeing her as I thought I see something long term. When we met she even brought me a gift of this snack I said I really liked some time ago. It was very very thoughtful and I was quite happy.  

We went on to talk about more positive things and then we spent the next several hours around at the mall. I think we laughed a bit more than usual and had some funny stories and moments together. When we were leaving she said she hoped to see me again which I agreed to, I hugged and gave her a kiss on the cheek and held her hand for a moment before leaving. 

When I saw her at first today I legit thought she looked a lot better. Maybe it was some better application of makeup or maybe some positive interactions made me see her better but I definitely felt a greater physical attraction. 

In particular during today's date after our heart to heart I felt like I could be even more of my geeky self and it seemed just fine to her. We stumbled upon a few more things that we think alike on related to lifestyle, past experience and past challenges. After the talk today I feel better about where we are at. Even though I realize it's slow by conventional standards, I feel more comfortable and less pressure on myself to push things unnaturally. 

I do not recall the last time I felt this way about a person.  

In fact I'm thinking even now of where our next date might be! I was thinking of a comedy club to see a show. We've always gone out during the day and maybe the night will be another change of pace and introduce something new. What do you all think?    

 

 

[Versacehottie]

Glad it went well! I think the night will help things along. I think a shy or conservative person would feel more exposed or on the spot for affectionate things in the light of day in active public places like a mall, etc. I think you should pick a place that helps you with the environment and ambiance you want for a more romantic date. 

I would say also that don't just judge what you do physically as a marker of how well it's gong or will go ultimately. Dealing with a shy/conservative person is most likely a different ball game than just average daters who are more comfortable with affection. Had I read your post before today's date, I would have suggest you take an emotional leap (kind of like you did). I think it's as valuable to measure or assess what is going on emotionally as it is what is happening with physical affection. I think sometimes guys underestimate that some girls won't really leap to the affection part unless they feel an emotional connection. That said, she might not be the most affectionate person (which her prior dating with you sort of bears out as well as what she told you today about her upbringing). I think you should keep exploring it as long as you are having a good time.

I like the idea to introduce something new. Mixed feelings on a comedy club--though they usually have a two drink minimum so that's helpful haha. Part of the reason I am a little apprehensive about a comedy club for you guys is the vibe you guys get will be highly dependent on what sort of comedy the comedians end up doing.  You would have to gauge that (without knowing what the comedians are sort of known for, right?). Just something to think about. I do like the idea of shaking things up and maybe stretching what is "comfortable" for either of you. Perhaps some euphoria from a comedian that takes things too far is a good thing! What you should do IMO, if you take her to one of those shows is take her somewhere else for a drink or dessert afterward or to see something (like a good view or something).  Lol I am thinking of the 5 or so well known comedy clubs in LA so perhaps I can think of an after place if you indicate which one you are thinking of going to. (just indicate city if you don't want to say the exact location)...2 on Sunset Blvd, 1 on Melrose, 1 in Valley, 1 in Pasadena is sort of ones I know off the top of my head.🤪

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, dragonwalker said:

 I popped the question. The one where I asked her about how she was feeling things were going and how I wanted to know what she felt about going forward romantically. 

What exactly do you mean by "going forward romantically"? You're dating so this was never misunderstood as a friendship. It seems like a loaded question.

It seems to be going well, if you would just get out of your own way a bit.

Keep in mind women aren't going to dress like supermodels to trapse around a mall. . Try to relax and try not to pressure her to be more sexual in dress or actions. She seems rather conservative.

[introverted1]

10 hours ago, dragonwalker said:

In fact I'm thinking even now of where our next date might be! I was thinking of a comedy club to see a show. We've always gone out during the day and maybe the night will be another change of pace and introduce something new. What do you all think?    

An emphatic yes from me about a nighttime date.

As for comedy club...  this depends on how well you know her sense of humor and what sort of comedy will be presented.  A lot of comedy can be sexually crude and this could create awkwardness since the two of you aren't there yet in your relationship. 

I like @Versacehottie's suggestion of a drink/dessert place.  Especially if it is someplace sort of intimate where you can sit close to her and ramp up your physical connection a bit.

 

[Rider on the Storm]

OP, please don't take this the wrong way as being mean isn't my intent, but if I'm being honest, I became bored just by reading about your dates. From the limp hand hold, to going for a kiss and getting her eye, to not even thinking that she's traditionally attractive, I just get the feeling that you are trying to convince yourself that you like her because you're lonely and this is the first time in forever that you've had this many dates with one woman. 

One thing that especially struck me was your comment about attraction not being overly important if marriage is the ultimate goal. Perhaps I misunderstood, and I hope that I did, because attraction is absolutely vital in any relationship. Do not settle. I'm sure that you're tired of the one and done dating, and while I can respect that, it's certainly no reason to try and force yourself to be attracted to someone when it appears that you are clearly not. I know you said you thought she "looked better" on this last date and chalked that up to better makeup or better conversation, but it sounds as if you're trying to convince yourself of something that even you don't believe to be true.

Ask yourself if are you truly happy with her, or if you are settling because, in your mind, it's better than being alone.

[dragonwalker]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

What exactly do you mean by "going forward romantically"? You're dating so this was never misunderstood as a friendship. It seems like a loaded question.

It seems to be going well, if you would just get out of your own way a bit.

Keep in mind women aren't going to dress like supermodels to trapse around a mall. . Try to relax and try not to pressure her to be more sexual in dress or actions. She seems rather conservative.

Regarding the going forward romantically and misunderstood as friendship was the line of thought I got from other responders introvered1 and poppyseeds who posed the question that in the absence of romance, what is the difference between what I've done with my date and a friendship? I thought that was very telling because in my past I feel I'm much better at being safe and simply becoming friends more than anything else and lose site of what it is I'm trying to do. So I did bring this up in conversation but I didn't make a big deal about it. 

Regarding the clothes, she told me a story that was very interesting. She mentioned she doesn't buy clothes often and has a large amount from her 20s when she was heavier and it made sense how everything she wears just seems to big, shapeless and meant to conceal. These were clothes holdover from that time in her life and for whatever reason wore them on a more or less regular basis. I sympathized a bit more because in my past I've also had some weight issues and know the feeling. I never expect nor want a women to dress like a "supermodel" but when it affects my perception of her I take notice. I'm coming to realize this is just who she is and no I'm not going to pressure her into dressing a certain way.   

[dragonwalker]

4 hours ago, introverted1 said:

An emphatic yes from me about a nighttime date.

As for comedy club...  this depends on how well you know her sense of humor and what sort of comedy will be presented.  A lot of comedy can be sexually crude and this could create awkwardness since the two of you aren't there yet in your relationship. 

I like @Versacehottie's suggestion of a drink/dessert place.  Especially if it is someplace sort of intimate where you can sit close to her and ramp up your physical connection a bit.

 

I had sent Versace some questions about a comedy club nearby specifically one that might have a piece that avoids the really raunchy crude material if possible. I'm considering other options. 

[Weezy1973]

@dragonwalker I think you’re at the stage where what you do, or when you do it is getting less important. It’s more about spending time together because you like each other. So a night time date is great. Your last date sounded really good and sounded like you both opened up a bit about your past and why perhaps you both have less experience at this stage of your lives with romance. I do think you’ll get to a point soon where you’re not analyzing as much and just enjoying your time with her rather than worrying about what’s  next. You will have to push through your comfort zone when it comes to the physical side though. 

[dragonwalker]

1 hour ago, Rider on the Storm said:

OP, please don't take this the wrong way as being mean isn't my intent, but if I'm being honest, I became bored just by reading about your dates. From the limp hand hold, to going for a kiss and getting her eye, to not even thinking that she's traditionally attractive, I just get the feeling that you are trying to convince yourself that you like her because you're lonely and this is the first time in forever that you've had this many dates with one woman. 

One thing that especially struck me was your comment about attraction not being overly important if marriage is the ultimate goal. Perhaps I misunderstood, and I hope that I did, because attraction is absolutely vital in any relationship. Do not settle. I'm sure that you're tired of the one and done dating, and while I can respect that, it's certainly no reason to try and force yourself to be attracted to someone when it appears that you are clearly not. I know you said you thought she "looked better" on this last date and chalked that up to better makeup or better conversation, but it sounds as if you're trying to convince yourself of something that even you don't believe to be true.

Ask yourself if are you truly happy with her, or if you are settling because, in your mind, it's better than being alone.

Rider, you are absolutely right and I do find myself lonely at times. I've tried to resolve the situation by doing my best to put myself out there and start a relationship by being the best version of myself physically, mentally, having all my s*** together, getting what professional help I can. I still do have a traditional mindset where I'd like to one day have a family and I know that I'm capable of doing so. 

However, in all this time I've tried to date and information I've looked at and people I've talked to I have to be realistic. I'm not someone that is particularly attractive or posses some huge material advantage and I'll go so far as to say that many people might find the type of person I am boring or uninteresting (I don't particularly like a lot of things that traditionally make people seem like they have an exciting or active life). However I do have interests, hobbies, and a social life and I'm content with who I am. With that said, I'm highly unlikely to attract someone that unlike myself. 

As you said this might be considered "settling" but I see it this way: I've met a woman who has met what I've always thought to be more important which is intelligence, kindness and someone who likes me. Someone that has a temperament compatible with mine and understands each other as far as some of the challenges of communicating with personalities like our own. Yes it's true that I didn't find her as attractive as I'd like but the truth is I have always believed of the things that matter that physical attraction although a consideration should be of lesser importance because beauty/attraction is so fleeting. When I think hard about the women I have been able to meet and date I'm of the opinion my current date doesn't fall out of the range of attractiveness I might have felt for those women (and frankly even in those cases it might have been the normal/up to date clothes those dates have worn which made the difference) so in theory my date could look every bit as good all things being equal.

What also I think speaks to potential long term physical attraction is the fact that she maintains healthy habits and it shows in some ways when I see her physically and plus as a doctor she's more aware of the importance of these habits and I think in the long term it will play to her advantage. 

I'm kind of the opinion except in some rare instances that almost everyone "settles" even if you meet someone that you match so well. Going into the long term and even into marriage don't people go through a process where they "convince" themselves they are making the right decision or that their search has ended. Just knowing the fact you can't know everyone in the world means at some point you have to put aside a search for a more perfect person in favor of the person you have now.    

[Versacehottie]

8 hours ago, dragonwalker said:

I had sent Versace some questions about a comedy club nearby specifically one that might have a piece that avoids the really raunchy crude material if possible. I'm considering other options. 

Hi @dragonwalker totally willing to help answer some of those questions. Just wanted to let you know that I didn't receive an message from you (lol don't want you to think I didn't reply). 

I also agree with introverted who described what I had been trying to say in that sometimes comedians can be so crude that it causes awkwardness. Also usually you would be there for the lineup so you might know the work/style of the headliner but not those doing comedy underneath him/her. I would less expect the "romantic" moment at the comedy show--though laughing could loosen you guys up overall--and that's why I'm saying to have an after place idea if you do in fact go to the comedy show. I'm sure it can be figured out. So re-send the private message if you'd like 😊

Btw, funny ever since I looked up those candlelight classical music shows, I get a TON of ads for more of them across all my devices...so funny.  Honestly from what you've said here about how each of you are and where you are trying to take this/how you need to get comfortable with each other. I might do something like that first. A bit safer in some ways, but the romantic, dark part is built right in. Dark in lots of comedy clubs true but you will be "watching" something rather than engaging with each other. (much more so than listening to music).  A good way to "shake things up" is to do something active. I would probably take her to Halloween Horror Nights which started last weekend 😊 (or I would like that as a date).

[dragonwalker]

@VersacehottieI sent you another message. I see the first one and it says you haven't read it yet. Let me know if it comes through. Thanks.