Ex-gf best friend is a dude FWB [merged thread]

[Alpacalia]

6 hours ago, bigmil said:

Very easy to say "you should have said no", but it wasn't.

True. 

It's always 20/20 in hindsight.

I consider it a lucky escape for you.

It's good that you stood your ground.

Her loss.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Alpacalia

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, bigmil said:

But... thinking about my own actions, my responses -- I think there's massive value in that because it helps me to grow.

Yes, I agree. 

I meant that ruminating over why she did what she did (and speculating about all the possible reasons) isn't particularly useful or healthy. Examining your own response to it, though, will no doubt benefit you. 

And you absolutely did the right thing walking away from all of this. It sounds like a mess. 

[bigmil]

6 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yes, I agree. 

I meant that ruminating over why she did what she did (and speculating about all the possible reasons) isn't particularly useful or healthy. Examining your own response to it, though, will no doubt benefit you. 

And you absolutely did the right thing walking away from all of this. It sounds like a mess. 

thanks.

What I now struggle with is knowing how to approach these situations. 

How do you let your partner know you are feeling insecure about a friendship with one of their ex's without coming across as needy or less attractive? 

What's the expectation?  Should they NOT have any male friends in her life whom she had a sexual past with?

I like the concept of a relationship bubble where just the two of you reside.  Bringing an ex sexual partner into that bubble is dangerous, because it could result in a less secure attachment with your person.  How is this mitigated?

My thoughts are this:

1.  Establish WHY it's important for this person to be in her life.  If the reasoning is good or non-negotiable, then accept it.

2.  Ask for transparency.  This means no shared secret communications between the two of them.  No shared secrets.  She tells you everything -- history, current emotional connection, etc.

3.  Your partner understands the need to protect your ego -- she makes you the priority.  She chooses YOU over him when push comes to shove. 

 

I'd prefer to never be in this situation but at my age, and if the woman is more attractive, it seems like a very likely and common obstacle to encounter. 

What are people's thoughts on how to approach this sort of situation?

[bigmil]

How do you let your partner know you are feeling insecure about a friendship with one of their ex's without coming across as needy or less attractive? 

What's the expectation?  Should they NOT have any male friends in her life whom she had a sexual past with?

I like the concept of a relationship bubble where just the two of you reside.  Bringing an ex sexual partner into that bubble is dangerous, because it could result in a less secure attachment with your person.  How is this mitigated?

My thoughts are this:

1.  Establish WHY it's important for this person to be in her life.  If the reasoning is good or non-negotiable, then accept it.

2.  Ask for transparency.  This means no shared secret communications between the two of them.  No shared secrets.  She tells you everything -- history, current emotional connection, etc.

3.  Your partner understands the need to protect your ego -- she makes you the priority.  She chooses YOU over him when push comes to shove. 

 

I'd prefer to never be in this situation but at my age, and if the woman is more attractive, it seems like a very likely and common obstacle to encounter. 

What are people's thoughts on how to approach this sort of situation?

[FMW]

It depends on what the Friendship entails.  If they are friendly and only see each other in group settings, maybe occasionally texting for specific reasons (news about another friend, a party, etc.) then ok.  But I would not be happy about one-on-one get-togethers and I probably would not remain in the relationship if they were having those kind of meet ups.  

The attractiveness of your partner shouldn't come into consideration - either they have what you find to be acceptable contact with exes, or they don't. 

[smackie9]

Don't date them if you need to "deal" with it. 

[bigmil]

1 hour ago, FMW said:

It depends on what the Friendship entails.  If they are friendly and only see each other in group settings, maybe occasionally texting for specific reasons (news about another friend, a party, etc.) then ok.  But I would not be happy about one-on-one get-togethers and I probably would not remain in the relationship if they were having those kind of meet ups.  

The attractiveness of your partner shouldn't come into consideration - either they have what you find to be acceptable contact with exes, or they don't. 

I'm saying that my experience has been the more attractive the woman, the more likely she is to have male orbiters of some sort.  The hottest girls I know have TONS of guy friends.  It's just par for the course.  If you want to date very attractive women, you'll likely have to interact with her male friends. 

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, bigmil said:

I'm saying that my experience has been the more attractive the woman, the more likely she is to have male orbiters of some sort.  The hottest girls I know have TONS of guy friends.  It's just par for the course.  If you want to date very attractive women, you'll likely have to interact with her male friends. 

First I'd like to say, I write this as an attractive woman who never chose to have a bunch of men 'orbiting' around me when in a serious relationship.

My decision had nothing to do with my "hotness" but rather my integrity and the RESPECT I had for my boyfriend(s) and our relationship.

Women who maintain orbiters or worse former sexual partners while in a relationship with you (or any man) lack proper boundaries and respect for you and your relationship.

They do this for validation - to validate to themselves that other men find them hot which is insecure, entitled and selfish behavior; they don't give a flying leap about you or your relationship.

My advice is develop higher standards for yourself and choose better women, based on more than simply her hotness. 

In case you haven't guessed, this is a real peeve of mine.  It's bad enough such women are so entitled but that men (like you) accept it!

There are plenty of beautiful HOT sexy intelligent women walking this earth who do NOT behave that way.

Edited July 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, bigmil said:

What's the expectation?  Should they NOT have any male friends in her life whom she had a sexual past with?

They can do whatever they want, but you don’t have to date someone that has male friends they’ve had sex with. I wouldn’t.
 

And when I was dating women I let my boundaries be known and if they insisted on still hanging out with those friends, I’d dump them. As an aside, my now wife when we first were exclusive (about five or six weeks) told me she was going to hang out with a former friend with benefits and I told her the same thing. She promptly cancelled and let him know. And that was that. About a year later he contacted her again to see if she was single and she told him we were moving in together and it was serious. He just said congratulations and moved on. 
 

Co-parents would be somewhat of an exception as I think being on friendly terms likely is better for the kids than hating each other.

[bigmil]

18 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

First I'd like to say, I write this as an attractive woman who never chose to have a bunch of men 'orbiting' around me when in a serious relationship.

My decision had nothing to do with my "hotness" but rather my integrity and the RESPECT I had for my boyfriend(s) and our relationship.

Women who maintain orbiters or worse former sexual partners while in a relationship with you (or any man) lack proper boundaries and respect for you and your relationship.

They do this for validation - to validate to themselves that other men find them hot which is insecure, entitled and selfish behavior; they don't give a flying leap about you or your relationship.

My advice is develop higher standards for yourself and choose better women, based on more than simply her hotness. 

In case you haven't guessed, this is a real peeve of mine.  It's bad enough such women are so entitled but that men (like you) accept it!

There are plenty of beautiful HOT sexy intelligent women walking this earth who do NOT behave that way.

Oh, I never said I accepted it.  I have very attractive female friends (who I've never had sex with) and I discuss this with them.  Several say they don't view having past sex partners whom are now friends as a problem -- they honestly can't see an issue with it.  They care about that person and I don't think their motivation is based on a need for validation, at least from what they say.

I do agree that many women have a 'harem' of male orbiters and use them as a form of validation. 

Also, it's very annoying when as I man, I make any statement about attractiveness and women immediately jump to this conclusion"  "All you care about is hotness."

I simply said I noticed a correlation between level of attractiveness and the liklihood that she will have male orbiters.  I never said that all I care about is her looks.  I didn't even suggest that.  That's an assumption you made about me.  So you know, that isn't accurate.

Attractiveness is important.  There's a threshold where you need to have a certain level of physical attraction.  Then all the other factors come into play -- is she empathetic?  Honest, kind, caring, have boundaries, make you a priority, is she monogamous?  All those factors come into play.

I have learned to be more selective and not assume a person has good values or that they will understand reasonable boundaries.  All that has to be talked about, explicity expressed -- I've learned to never make optimistic assumptions. 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by bigmil

[bigmil]

4 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

They can do whatever they want, but you don’t have to date someone that has male friends they’ve had sex with. I wouldn’t.
 

And when I was dating women I let my boundaries be known and if they insisted on still hanging out with those friends, I’d dump them. As an aside, my now wife when we first were exclusive (about five or six weeks) told me she was going to hang out with a former friend with benefits and I told her the same thing. She promptly cancelled and let him know. And that was that. About a year later he contacted her again to see if she was single and she told him we were moving in together and it was serious. He just said congratulations and moved on. 
 

Co-parents would be somewhat of an exception as I think being on friendly terms likely is better for the kids than hating each other.

I agree with everything you said here. 

Many women would not cancel on that hangout though with the former FWB.  I'm thinking more and more that just sticking to that boundary, and being able to walk away is the best way to be.  It's problematic though when the woman has a former FWB from say 4 years ago who is now married but they are still close.  They may see you asking her not to hang with him as controlling or not worth continuing the relationship with you.  I've had female friends tell me that if a guy tries to limit who she is friends with, they have an immediate loss of attraction and view it as insecure behavior.  Ideally, your girl would act as yours did, but MANY women likely would not, especially just 6 weeks into a new relationship.

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, bigmil said:

Also, it's very annoying when as I man, I make any statement about attractiveness and women immediately jump to this conclusion"  "All you care about is hotness."

Lol, well to be fair mate, it IS all some men care about.   And they will often accept piss-poor treatment because of it.  

Good for you if you don't but I have seen it, so my opinion comes from that place. 

Of course physical attraction is important, never said it wasn't.

But much of your post discussed her hotness, and made it seem like maintaining orbiters and former sex partners while in a relationship was normal and should be accepted, because well, hey she's so hot!  

That is how I read it anyway. 

As I said I am considered attractive and I have many attractive VERY hot friends, so I don't say this from a jealous place. 

Again, I think it's disrespectful and women know this too even if they don't admit it. 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[bigmil]

3 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Lol, well to be fair mate, it IS all some men care about.   And they will often accept piss-poor treatment because of it.  

Good for you if you don't but I have seen it, so my opinion comes from that place. 

Of course physical attraction is important, never said it wasn't.

But much of your post discussed her hotness, and made it seem like maintaining orbiters and former sex partners while in a relationship was normal and should be accepted, because well, hey she's so hot!  

That is how I read it anyway. 

As I said I am considered attractive and I have many attractive VERY hot friends, so I don't say this from a jealous place. 

Again, I think it's disrespectful and women know this too even.if they don't admit it. 

 

I agree, it is disrespectful.  I'm used to dating women like you, who don't put me in these sorts of situations.

And that's the problem right?  Is it ever acceptable?  What I mean is:  If a woman has long-term male friends whom she has slept with a long time ago, does that immediately disqualify her as someone worthy of dating?

I can see that it would be a pink flag, meaning it would be a potential concern.  But, how exactly do you deal with that?  Maybe there's zero chance her and the guy will ever be sexual together again but they've developed a close friendship over many many years.  As the new man in her life, do you tell her she can't have that with him anymore?

This is what I struggle with -- what are the proper boundaries to enforce without coming across as controlling or jealous?  It seems like a fuzzy and confusing line there. 

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Lol, well to be fair mate, it IS all some men care about.   And they will often accept piss-poor treatment because of it.  

Good for you if you don't but I have seen it, so my opinion comes from that place. 

Of course physical attraction is important, never said it wasn't.

But much of your post discussed her hotness, and made it seem like maintaining orbiters and former sex partners while in a relationship was normal and should be accepted, because well, hey she's so hot!  

That is how I read it anyway. 

As I said I am considered attractive and I have many attractive VERY hot friends, so I don't say this from a jealous place. 

Again, I think it's disrespectful and women know this too even if they don't admit it. 

 

To add in case I wasn't clear OP, attractive women will always have men wanting to orbit around her, it is HER choice whether to keep them around or not.

I chose not to, again out of respect for my boyfriend (now husband 💛) and our relationship/marriage. 

That's all I meant. 

[glows]

2 hours ago, bigmil said:

thanks.

What I now struggle with is knowing how to approach these situations. 

How do you let your partner know you are feeling insecure about a friendship with one of their ex's without coming across as needy or less attractive? 

What's the expectation?  Should they NOT have any male friends in her life whom she had a sexual past with?

I like the concept of a relationship bubble where just the two of you reside.  Bringing an ex sexual partner into that bubble is dangerous, because it could result in a less secure attachment with your person.  How is this mitigated?

My thoughts are this:

1.  Establish WHY it's important for this person to be in her life.  If the reasoning is good or non-negotiable, then accept it.

2.  Ask for transparency.  This means no shared secret communications between the two of them.  No shared secrets.  She tells you everything -- history, current emotional connection, etc.

3.  Your partner understands the need to protect your ego -- she makes you the priority.  She chooses YOU over him when push comes to shove. 

 

I'd prefer to never be in this situation but at my age, and if the woman is more attractive, it seems like a very likely and common obstacle to encounter. 

What are people's thoughts on how to approach this sort of situation?

Different people are different and some do not stay in contact with exes, regardless of what that liaison was or nature of the relationship, casual, fwb, committed relationship and so on. Actually a good number of people choose not to delve into these issues at all and it's a dealbreaker, full stop. Not at all uncommon, nor unreasonable.

I'd think that's a good start (your points above) if you want to go down that avenue and remain openminded or open to the possibility of dating someone who is in contact with an ex. I don't recommend it at all. 

You may get to a point where you are finished with that kind of back and forth or added drama in your life. I sure tired of it and moved on from those discussions. Again, different people want or value different things and that's reflected in what you find attractive overall in a partner. I would not be attracted to any situation similar to the above.

[bigmil]

33 minutes ago, glows said:

Different people are different and some do not stay in contact with exes, regardless of what that liaison was or nature of the relationship, casual, fwb, committed relationship and so on. Actually a good number of people choose not to delve into these issues at all and it's a dealbreaker, full stop. Not at all uncommon, nor unreasonable.

I'd think that's a good start (your points above) if you want to go down that avenue and remain openminded or open to the possibility of dating someone who is in contact with an ex. I don't recommend it at all. 

You may get to a point where you are finished with that kind of back and forth or added drama in your life. I sure tired of it and moved on from those discussions. Again, different people want or value different things and that's reflected in what you find attractive overall in a partner. I would not be attracted to any situation similar to the above.

Appreciate your persepctive, thanks,

Question for you:  It sounds like you've had some experience with this.  What were your conclusions and reasons for deciding contact with ex'es was a hard line dealbreaker?

 

[glows]

Just now, bigmil said:

Appreciate your persepctive, thanks,

Question for you:  It sounds like you've had some experience with this.  What were your conclusions and reasons for deciding contact with ex'es was a hard line dealbreaker?

 

It's as mentioned in the third paragraph of my previous post. This is up to you. 

I would say it's less of a dealbreaker and more of a turn off in the sense that I don't actually find situations like that appealing or attractive. I am not paying attention to people who have their lives set up that way. We are incompatible.

[bigmil]

4 minutes ago, glows said:

It's as mentioned in the third paragraph of my previous post. This is up to you. 

I would say it's less of a dealbreaker and more of a turn off in the sense that I don't actually find situations like that appealing or attractive. I am not paying attention to people who have their lives set up that way. We are incompatible.

I wasn't asking if it was up to me.  I asked what your personal experience/history was, if any, with these types of situations.  Of course I know it's up to me.  I'm curious why you feel the way you do, other than just saying "it's not for me".  WHY isn't it for you?

[glows]

3 minutes ago, bigmil said:

I wasn't asking if it was up to me.  I asked what your personal experience/history was, if any, with these types of situations.  Of course I know it's up to me.  I'm curious why you feel the way you do, other than just saying "it's not for me".  WHY isn't it for you?

Again, reread what I wrote in my earlier post. Going into the details of my history is completely irrelevant and also not the topic of the thread. 

[bigmil]

5 minutes ago, glows said:

Again, reread what I wrote in my earlier post. Going into the details of my history is completely irrelevant and also not the topic of the thread. 

no need to reread, I got what you said.  Totally understand if you don't want to share -- that is asking a lot.  Not irrelevant at all though, since it helps to understand the justification for your position.  Hearing examples of why you would choose NOT to date someone with connections to their ex's helps me to form conclusions and ultimately boundaries based off what most likely will happen without those boundaries in place. 

[glows]

1 minute ago, bigmil said:

no need to reread, I got what you said.  Totally understand if you don't want to share -- that is asking a lot.  Not irrelevant at all though, since it helps to understand the justification for your position.  Hearing examples of why you would choose NOT to date someone with connections to their ex's helps me to form conclusions and ultimately boundaries based off what most likely will happen without those boundaries in place. 

When someone doesn't find a particular lifestyle or types of choices appealing that is an answer in itself. It is not attractive or appealing. I am actually not attracted at all and it's a turn off. I'm sure you can relate based on other things you find a turn off. There is no further justification needed. I can see your train of thought but that's what it is and not as complicated as you may think. It's much simpler for me than it is for you as you're rationalizing what to do in future. 

And completely fine to ask these questions. 👌

[bigmil]

5 minutes ago, glows said:

When someone doesn't find a particular lifestyle or types of choices appealing that is an answer in itself. It is not attractive or appealing. I am actually not attracted at all and it's a turn off. I'm sure you can relate based on other things you find a turn off. There is no further justification needed. I can see your train of thought but that's what it is and not as complicated as you may think. It's much simpler for me than it is for you as you're rationalizing what to do in future. 

And completely fine to ask these questions. 👌

fair enough. 

"Rationalizing" isn't the right word.  I'm trying to understand so I don't make any mistakes in the future, which includes jumping to conclusions over benign situations.  I don't want to lose a potentially great partner if it's based on my own insecurities and inability to understand context.

[flitzanu]

as with everything, i think you need to not be so all-or-nothing about a person or situation.  just because someone is friends with an ex doesn't mean they are going to suddenly cheat on you.  

are they friends and just broke up 2 days before you started dating?  higher possibility.

or, like me, are they friends with their high school ex from decades ago that dated when we were kids...is that a scenario that likely leads to hookups and cheating behind your back?

 

this is really going to be more about behavior and boundaries and less about "labels" and, not to mention, people have the ability to change their mind.  who i'm attracted to a year ago may absolutely not be the same as today, just because a girl dated a guy previously doesn't mean she has any sexual interest in him currently.

 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, bigmil said:

I like the concept of a relationship bubble where just the two of you reside.  Bringing an ex sexual partner into that bubble is dangerous, because it could result in a less secure attachment with your person. 

Then all you need to do is find a woman who shares your views. 

 

[FMW]

I agree with @poppyfields.  It's not about how amazingly hot your girlfriend is.  It's about you choosing to accept her need to stay connected to other men and trying to put rules in place to manage your concerns.  If you have concerns, you need to pay attention to them and not make excuses for her or try to work around them.  Otherwise, you get what you get.