Ex-gf best friend is a dude FWB [merged thread]

[Ami1uwant]

5 hours ago, bigmil said:

How do you let your partner know you are feeling insecure about a friendship with one of their ex's without coming across as needy or less attractive? 

What's the expectation?  Should they NOT have any male friends in her life whom she had a sexual past with?

I like the concept of a relationship bubble where just the two of you reside.  Bringing an ex sexual partner into that bubble is dangerous, because it could result in a less secure attachment with your person.  How is this mitigated?

My thoughts are this:

1.  Establish WHY it's important for this person to be in her life.  If the reasoning is good or non-negotiable, then accept it.

2.  Ask for transparency.  This means no shared secret communications between the two of them.  No shared secrets.  She tells you everything -- history, current emotional connection, etc.

3.  Your partner understands the need to protect your ego -- she makes you the priority.  She chooses YOU over him when push comes to shove. 

 

I'd prefer to never be in this situation but at my age, and if the woman is more attractive, it seems like a very likely and common obstacle to encounter. 

What are people's thoughts on how to approach this sort of situation?

so you want to be controlling…..welcome to being single the rest of your life.

 

you need to grow up

men and women can be friends even if they had sex.

 

ive had female friends …..in many cases there was something that made them not be relationships like in differences such as — wanting kids, religion, political differences but you have common interests, differences in lifestyle, work- life, interests, ones is a per person and one is not, one is vegan/ vegitarian and one is not.  Basically you woukd need to sacrifice something big in your life if the relationship would work.

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

[ ]  Don't buy into this hoo-haw that male friends are necessarily ORBITERS and "better women" don't have them. That is pathetic.   The really good women have deep friendships in their lives and do not bother with men who require that they don't "maintain" them in order to assuage the inherent weakness of the man they're dating.  Please just scroll on past any posts that suggest that "better women" would pander like this.  It's ludicrous.  Aim higher.

It's good that you identify this as an issue of YOURS (her friendships make you feel insecure).  It's really not her problem.  She's not doing anything wrong, at least not that you've identified here.   Beyond that, though, you are veering off track.  I challenge you to not care whether you "come off" as needy etc.  This is not about making a certain impression.  IMO, if you are insecure, that is something you need to work on within yourself.  

Friendship is one of the most important aspects of life.   Gender does not define friendship.  A person's friendships absolutely do not indicate that you have poor boundaries or any other deficit.  

If you get your self esteem in order, you won't worry about this type of thing anymore.  You will be able to tell if you are with a "player" or otherwise insincere woman and move on.  

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, bigmil said:

This is what I struggle with -- what are the proper boundaries to enforce without coming across as controlling or jealous?  It seems like a fuzzy and confusing line there. 

Sure there are shades of gray. I think at minimum the hard boundary would be having a woman who insisted on hanging out alone with her former sexual partner. If it’s just matter of fact and you’re always invited them that might be fine. For the example where it was 4 years ago and the guy is now married, of the woman is suggesting things like double dates and she’s clearly also friends with his wife, not much to worry about. 
 

It’s when there’s an insistence that they be able to hang out alone or secrecy of any kind. Hiding text messages etc. Thats going to be an instant no and for me I just would dump her. I even told a woman once, it really doesn’t matter if you’re trustworthy or not, I don’t trust you so the relationship is over. Remember you can’t control what a woman does (so don’t even bother trying to be controlling) but you can set a clear boundary and act accordingly.

[bigmil]

51 minutes ago, FMW said:

I agree with @poppyfields.  It's not about how amazingly hot your girlfriend is.  It's about you choosing to accept her need to stay connected to other men and trying to put rules in place to manage your concerns.  If you have concerns, you need to pay attention to them and not make excuses for her or try to work around them.  Otherwise, you get what you get.  

Again, never said it was about how hot she is lol.

What I said is that I've noticed a correlation between very attractive women and a higher liklihood that she will have lots of male orbiters.

This is simply an observation, and it doesn;t mean every hot woman will be this way. 

It also doesn't mean her hotness in any way justifies the behavior.  In no way is that what I'm saying.

It's frustrating because I feel like a man can never bring attractiveness into a conversation without a woman jumping the conclusion of some form of "it's not about looks" or, "all you care about is how hot she is", etc.  To get to that conclusion, you had to have made a lot of assumptions. 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by bigmil

[bigmil]

12 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Sure there are shades of gray. I think at minimum the hard boundary would be having a woman who insisted on hanging out alone with her former sexual partner. If it’s just matter of fact and you’re always invited them that might be fine. For the example where it was 4 years ago and the guy is now married, of the woman is suggesting things like double dates and she’s clearly also friends with his wife, not much to worry about. 
 

It’s when there’s an insistence that they be able to hang out alone or secrecy of any kind. Hiding text messages etc. Thats going to be an instant no and for me I just would dump her. I even told a woman once, it really doesn’t matter if you’re trustworthy or not, I don’t trust you so the relationship is over. Remember you can’t control what a woman does (so don’t even bother trying to be controlling) but you can set a clear boundary and act accordingly.

Yes, I agree.  Double dates and doing things together aren't concerning in the sense that you're worried they would have sex with that person, that's true.  However, I feel as a prerequisite to even this type of contact, you need to have transparency and trust.  The context is so important.  Did they last have sex a year ago? How did it end?  Who, if anyone, still has lingering feelings?  I see it working as long as there's these 2 things:

1)  Transparency -- no lies of omission, no minimizing, no shared secrets between the two of them, no back channel communication

2)  Ego Protection -- she makes you the priority, actively choosing YOU over him

 

[NuevoYorko]

It's time to move on.  It's not healthy for you to be stewing about what an ex girlfriend did last winter.  Look ahead.  

[NuevoYorko]

The details of her past relationships are barely your business at all.   The details of her communication with any people in her life are also none of your business.  If you are worried about all of this with a woman you're dating, one of two things are going on:  You are intuitively feeling that she's not all in with you, or, your insecurities are driving you.  In either case, requiring "transparency" about her past relationships is out of line.  Just break up.  It's not going to work.

[bigmil]

22 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

I think that you need to evolve.  Don't buy into this hoo-haw that male friends are necessarily ORBITERS and "better women" don't have them. That is pathetic.   The really good women have deep friendships in their lives and do not bother with men who require that they don't "maintain" them in order to assuage the inherent weakness of the man they're dating.  Please just scroll on past any posts that suggest that "better women" would pander like this.  It's ludicrous.  Aim higher.

It's good that you identify this as an issue of YOURS (her friendships make you feel insecure).  It's really not her problem.  She's not doing anything wrong, at least not that you've identified here.   Beyond that, though, you are veering off track.  I challenge you to not care whether you "come off" as needy etc.  This is not about making a certain impression.  IMO, if you are insecure, that is something you need to work on within yourself.  

Friendship is one of the most important aspects of life.   Gender does not define friendship.  A person's friendships absolutely do not indicate that you have poor boundaries or any other deficit.  

If you get your self esteem in order, you won't worry about this type of thing anymore.  You will be able to tell if you are with a "player" or otherwise insincere woman and move on.  

 

It's interesting you feel as you do.  I don't neccessarily disagree with you on many things you said.  However, I do think you're completely wrong in saying that intersex friendships are exactly the same as same sex friendships and that gender doesn't matter.  If sex was involved, it IS different.  It doesn't mean they can't truly just be friends, but it means that a level of intimacy was reached with that person which might make your current partner uncomfortable.

I also think being secure with these situations has much more to do with the context and circumstances, rather than self-esteem.  I have high self-esteem.  Going into the relationship I'm referencing, I took the dude skiing, befriended him, and made every attempt to be cool and one happy family.  It wasn't until I had more data which indicated she hadn't been completely honest with me, and that she might still have lingering feelings for him, that I became insecure with the SITUATION.  I was never insecure with myself.  That's why I was able to set boundaries and eventually walk away from an unhealthy situation.

Telling someone they need to "evolve" is arrogant.  People and situations are nuanced, and asking questions to better understand how to respond to relationship stressors doesn't make someone controlling or close-minded.  It makes them human.
 

"It's good that you identify this as an issue of YOURS" -- In a relationship, it should be always be OUR issue.  It's each partner's responsibility is to address concerns openly and create a secure attachment TOGETHER.

Desribing it as "pathetic" means you have a strong disdain for, and little tolerance of, other people's senstivities. 

[bigmil]

6 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

The details of her past relationships are barely your business at all.   The details of her communication with any people in her life are also none of your business.  If you are worried about all of this with a woman you're dating, one of two things are going on:  You are intuitively feeling that she's not all in with you, or, your insecurities are driving you.  In either case, requiring "transparency" about her past relationships is out of line.  Just break up.  It's not going to work.

How is it none of your business if your partner is texting inappropriate sexual messages, or having with an emotional affair with an ex or anyone?? 

Transparency is required for trust.  Without trust, you can't have love.  Do you not agree with that? 

Edited July 28, 2022 by bigmil

[NuevoYorko]

2 minutes ago, bigmil said:

It's interesting you feel as you do.  I don't neccessarily disagree with you on many things you said.  However, I do think you're completely wrong in saying that intersex friendships are exactly the same as same sex friendships and that gender doesn't matter.{/quote]

Did I say that "intersex friendships are exactly the same as" or "gender doesn't matter"?  No.

2 minutes ago, bigmil said:

I also think being secure with these situations has much more to do with the context and circumstances, rather than self-esteem.  I have high self-esteem. [/quote]

The fact that you are ruminating about a past relationship and something that happened almost a year ago with that person belies you.

2 minutes ago, bigmil said:

Telling someone they need to "evolve" is arrogant.  People and situations are nuanced, and asking questions to better understand how to respond to relationship stressors doesn't make someone controlling or close-minded.  It makes them human.[/quote]

I'm probably a lot older than you and I assure you this is not an arrogant statement.  I had my struggles with insecurity and jealousy.  I evolved. That is how I moved past that and was able to conduct relationships on a deeper level where I was not spending my energy being concerned with protecting myself.  

Don't get me wrong - your ex girlfriend sounds like she might have been a real mess.   If I read both your posts correctly, your relationship was pretty much defined by going on trips with guys who she'd had sex with.  That's weird.  Next.

2 minutes ago, bigmil said:

It's good that you identify this as an issue of YOURS" -- In a relationship, it should be always be OUR issue.  It's each partner's responsibility is to address concerns openly and create a secure attachment TOGETHER.

Desribing it as "pathetic" means you have a strong disdain for, and little tolerance of, other people's senstivities. 

No.  That's not how healthy relationships work.   If I have issues, it's not my partner's responsibility to take care of them, say the right thing, behave a certain way, so I feel better.  Yes, communicating my feelings is important, and that's where it ends.  It's not the loved one's job to take care of my insecurities, jealousy, or anxiety.  

Sure,  we might be involved with the wrong person.  Maybe it's incompatibility, or they might just be bad.  It's up to us to decide whether to be in that relationship or not - it's not up to them to fix our feelings.

Regarding "pathetic:"   That was not in response to your situation or post, it is MY opinion of this attitude that male friends women have are "ORBITERS" and that a self described attractive woman who doesn't have male friends is somehow superior to one who does.  I think that's lame.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

[bigmil]

1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said:

so you want to be controlling…..welcome to being single the rest of your life.

 

you need to grow up

men and women can be friends even if they had sex.

 

ive had female friends …..in many cases there was something that made them not be relationships like in differences such as — wanting kids, religion, political differences but you have common interests, differences in lifestyle, work- life, interests, ones is a per person and one is not, one is vegan/ vegitarian and one is not.  Basically you woukd need to sacrifice something big in your life if the relationship would work.

 

 

No, I don't want to be controlling at all.  That's really the whole point of my post. 

If a situation makes you feel insecure.. how do you address it in a non-controlling way?  The goal is "Freedom in Trust", meaning that you and your partner have a sense trust that is so great that you both feel very free.  Free to have opposite sex friends, free to go on business trips, etc.. without either of you worrying or needing to question.

I've had this "freedom in trust" scenario in most of my relationships -- actually all of them.  This past one was the only one where I ran into situations that made me uncomfortable. 

And since it's something new to me, which I never had to deal with before, I'm seeking input on the most optimum way to address those situations. 

This is far from a childish approach, but it's ok you would say I need to grow up because it just gives me a some to laugh off, and see the message you're attempting to convey which is this:  "Being completely ok with ex sexual partners being friends with your gf is an evolved, sophisticated, mature state."

It's possible you're correct, but my leaning is that you're not.  There's lots of situations which create insecurity because boundaries and trust aren't established, and there's nothing wrong with asking for security in those situations. 

[Weezy1973]

43 minutes ago, bigmil said:

If a situation makes you feel insecure.. how do you address it in a non-controlling way? 

I think this has been asked and answered many times in the thread in different ways. You absolutely let your partner know how you feel and set the boundary. And then let her do what she wants with that information. If she decides to do whatever it is that makes you feel insecure, you end the relationship. Not as a punishment for her behavior, just because clearly you’re incompatible. 
 

I do think jealousy gets a bit of a bad rap and an almost instant reaction among some that it’s the person that’s feeling jealous problem and they’re insecure or controlling. Having been in multiple relationships, most of which I never felt any jealousy, and a couple of which I did, it’s clear that it was an incompatibility with how the woman and I viewed relationships and what was appropriate or not that was the root of the problem. Nothing to do with insecurity. 

[basil67]

21 hours ago, bigmil said:

I probably could have set boundaries around it and been ok as long as those boundaries were adhered to. Those would be:

1)  I'm the #1 man in your life emotionally.

2)  You don't share anything with him that you wouldn't with me.  No shared secrets, no backdoor communication.  I would want total transparency -- being able to read any texts or messages between them.

Despite agreeing with transparency and that our partner should be the #1 in our lives, I'd run a mile from a guy who verbalised these boundaries at the start.  Why?  Because it would tell me he has too much baggage.  I'm all about trusting someone unless they give me reason to not trust.  If they give me good reason to not trust, then I'd end it....and I expect the same in return.  

In particular, the reading of private messages is the bit I'd really take issue with.  If a guy really needs to read my messages despite me behaving in a trustworthy and open manner, it's just not going to work for me.  And for what it's worth, husband and I both have access to each other's phones and PCs for convenience sake - but we'd never read each other's private communication.

[bigmil]

25 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I think this has been asked and answered many times in the thread in different ways. You absolutely let your partner know how you feel and set the boundary. And then let her do what she wants with that information. If she decides to do whatever it is that makes you feel insecure, you end the relationship. Not as a punishment for her behavior, just because clearly you’re incompatible. 
 

I do think jealousy gets a bit of a bad rap and an almost instant reaction among some that it’s the person that’s feeling jealous problem and they’re insecure or controlling. Having been in multiple relationships, most of which I never felt any jealousy, and a couple of which I did, it’s clear that it was an incompatibility with how the woman and I viewed relationships and what was appropriate or not that was the root of the problem. Nothing to do with insecurity. 

Totally agree!!  Thank you. 

Expressing insecurity in a situation doesn't mean you have low self-esteem, aren't 'evolved', or are controlling.  It just means something needs to be addressed. 

[bigmil]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Despite agreeing with transparency and that our partner should be the #1 in our lives, I'd run a mile from a guy who verbalised these boundaries at the start.  Why?  Because it would tell me he has too much baggage.  I'm all about trusting someone unless they give me reason to not trust.  If they give me good reason to not trust, then I'd end it....and I expect the same in return.  

In particular, the reading of private messages is the bit I'd really take issue with.  If a guy really needs to read my messages despite me behaving in a trustworthy and open manner, it's just not going to work for me.  And for what it's worth, husband and I both have access to each other's phones and PCs for convenience sake - but we'd never read each other's private communication.

I mean you need these things in a very specific situation which is this:  You bring an ex sexual partner into your relationship bubble. 

It's not like I'm going to meet a girl and immediatley ask for her phone code. 

I think it's reasonable to be able to see communication with an ex FWB, if you're in a committed relationship.  Why would it matter? If there's nothing to hide, and it creates more transparency and trust. who cares?

Edited July 28, 2022 by bigmil

[basil67]

Just now, bigmil said:

I mean you need these things in a very specific situation which is this:  You bring an ex sexual partner into your relationship bubble. 

It's not I'm going to meet a girl and immediatley ask for her phone code. 

I think it's reasonable to be able to see communication with an ex FWB, if you're in a committed relationship.  Why would it matter? If there's nothing to hide, and it creates more transparency and trust. who cares?

I guess we're talking at cross purposes.  I would accept an ex who is part of the broad friendship group, but only if they have no private contact.  If I found out they were closer than that, I'd end it.   Thing is, if they don't have a close connection, then there's no messaging to view and no rules to be vebalised.

More broadly, I do care about having my messages read. If they need to read my messages, then they clearly don't trust me.  And if they don't trust me despite me already having good personal boundaries, I will not accept them as a partner.

 

[bigmil]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I guess we're talking at cross purposes.  I would accept an ex who is part of the broad friendship group, but only if they have no private contact.  If I found out they were closer than that, I'd end it.   Thing is, if they don't have a close connection, then there's no messaging to view and no rules to be vebalised.

More broadly, I do care about having my messages read. If they need to read my messages, then they clearly don't trust me.  And if they don't trust me despite me already having good personal boundaries, I will not accept them as a partner.

 

I get the need to not feel controlled.  That makes sense.  I would never want to make someone feel that way.

[basil67]

And the need to feel trusted if my behaviour warrants trust

In short, this woman's behaviour did not warrant trust, so rather than making rules, you would have been better to head for the hills.

Edited July 28, 2022 by basil67

[bigmil]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

And the need to feel trusted if my behaviour warrants trust

In short, this woman's behaviour did not warrant trust, so rather than making rules, you would have been better to head for the hills.

I think setting boundaries gives the person an oppurtunity to honor them, and to preserve the relationship.  I think it's possible a person may not realize that their behavior is having a negative effect.  Your essentially saying if they don't naturally share the same boundaries as you, it's time to bounce, rather than have a talk to readjust. 

There's a good chance your approach is the better one.  Once you see their bullshit, move on to someone more compatible in terms of values. 

[basil67]

Yes, sure....talk through your concerns and give them a chance to change things.  But if you still feel the need to read their private communication, then the relationship is stuffed.

[basil67]

Adding an exception to my comments above....if I had actually cheated and we were trying to work through it, I'd be OK with reading texts.  I just wouldn't be OK with pre-emptive reading

[bigmil]

32 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Adding an exception to my comments above....if I had actually cheated and we were trying to work through it, I'd be OK with reading texts.  I just wouldn't be OK with pre-emptive reading

For me, I don;t care if a woman would want to read my texts.  If it made her more comfortable and secure, then go for it.  My thinking is since I have nothing to hide, it's a very easy and painless way to build trust. 

[basil67]

@bigmil I guess it all goes back to a relationship working well when both parties are aligned in their view on what is acceptable when it comes to transparency

Edited July 29, 2022 by basil67

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Don't buy into this hoo-haw that male friends are necessarily ORBITERS and "better women" don't have them. That is pathetic.   The really good women have deep friendships in their lives and do not bother with men who require that they don't "maintain" them in order to assuage the inherent weakness of the man they're dating.  Please just scroll on past any posts that suggest that "better women" would pander like this.  It's ludicrous.  Aim higher.

Agree.

I'm not sure what advice you're listening to but it's starting to sound a bit "red-pill-ish."

That aside.

Your ex made the choice to invite someone that she used to have sex with on a trip with you.

Everyone has their limits.

The only thing you need to do is honor your own sense of self-preservation and feel comfortable saying no to things you don't want to be a part of.

That means avoiding women that are still in close contact with former sexual partners.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Alpacalia

[bigmil]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

@bigmil I guess it all goes back to a relationship working well when both parties are aligned in their view on what is acceptable when it comes to transparency

So is being “partially transparent” similar to being “partially pregnant” ??  Lol.  I think it’s you either you are you aren’t.