Over before it began

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, kleaners said:

Because following the text I called her and specifically asked if it was because of my relationship with my ex's family and she indicated as such. 

Ok. Many women will view this as "baggage", so discontinue talking about your ex/her family on dates.

[ExpatInItaly]

Also, OP, bear in mind that when your ex eventually starts seriously dating someone else, it is very unlikley he will be okay with her ex-husband still taking family holidays forever. 

You are probably going to find yourself sidelined and no longer invited on family vacations then, as I doubt her sister will override that and invite you anyway. The sad reality of a split is that family members often drift apart as one or both parties move on and find new partners. So I would caution you against putting too much weight on these family getaways as time goes on. They will more than likely eventually come to an end. 

Consider what you might be giving up (a potentially lovely woman) in favour of a situation that will probably disappear from your life, sooner or later. Will it have been worth it, once you are left behind by your ex's family? Something to reflect on, as it would be short-sighted to assume that her family will always want to remain close to you. 

 

[basil67]

The closeness with this other family you've described does explain your dedication to this family.  But from this woman's perspective, it would further cement your close connection as a deal breaker for me.   There are just too many scenarios which would require negotiation.

• What if they and I both have vacation at the same time and I want to go to the tropics with you and they want to go to the sea.  Who will you choose?   Or if you've booked time with them and find myself able to time off, are you going to still go with them...or will you take a romantic vacation with me?
• What if I want to spend a lazy Sunday with you and you need to visit with the kids?
• What if one of the kids has a birthday party at the same time as our friends are organising a lunch?
• What if I don't want to be involved with your ex's family at all?  
• What about if we marry and have kids.  How will you meet the needs of our kids if you're off vacationing or going to weekend sports with someone else's family?

Yes, of course this stuff could be negotiated, but no matter how much I liked you and was attracted to you on the date, it's not something I'd choose to entangle myself with.   Relationships take compromise as it is, and adding further complications just isn't helpful at all.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by basil67

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

The closeness with this other family you've described does explain your dedication to this family.  But from this woman's perspective, it would further cement your close connection as a deal breaker for me.   There are just too many scenarios which would require negotiation.

• What if they and I both have vacation at the same time and I want to go to the tropics with you and they want to go to the sea.  Who will you choose?   Or if you've booked time with them and find myself able to time off, are you going to still go with them...or will you take a romantic vacation with me?
• What if I want to spend a lazy Sunday with you and you need to visit with the kids?
• What if one of the kids has a birthday party at the same time as our friends are organising a lunch?
• What if I don't want to be involved with your ex's family at all?  
• What about if we marry and have kids.  How will you meet the needs of our kids if you're off vacationing or going to weekend sports with someone else's family?

Yes, of course this stuff could be negotiated, but no matter how much I liked you and was attracted to you on the date, it's not something I'd choose to entangle myself with.   Relationships take compromise as it is, and adding further complications just isn't helpful at all.

 

Do people really think about these things during a first meet?  I never did.   I was more focused on whether or not we clicked, and if there was a mutual attraction.  

What's in bold above is putting the cart way WAY before the horse, in my experience all that comes later after we've established there is a mutual attraction.

As I said, strong attraction is rarely so logical to even be thinking these things during the first meet and first few dates, but I suppose everyone is different, of course.  

I just think it's a bit much which is why I posted and still believe she simply didn't feel an attraction.

JMO.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by poppyfields

[ExpatInItaly]

4 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Do people really think about these things during a first meet? 

It's not that she was thinking about all these  things during the first date, but rather that there was a red flag that immediately went up when she heard how involved he still is with his ex's family. I think @basil67 is simply trying to help OP understand why it's a red flag for many. 

Even if the guy was attractive, I would have bowed out right away as well. It would have killed any attraction pretty quickly for me, personally. 

 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Do people really think about these things during a first meet?  I never did.   I was more focused on whether or not we clicked, and if there was a mutual attraction.  

What's in bold above is putting the cart way WAY before the horse, in my experience all that comes later after we've established there is a mutual attraction.

As I said, strong attraction is rarely so logical to even be thinking these things during the first meet and first few dates, but I suppose everyone is different, of course.  

I just think it's a bit much which is why I posted and still believe she simply didn't feel an attraction.

JMO.

Respectfully, I wrote about how I feel.  My words aren't about about what you'd do.  You've already made your own opinions perfectly clear.

For what it's worth, no, I wouldn't have exactly these thoughts during the first meet but my gut feeling would be to put my hands up with a reaction of "whoa...this isn't for me"    The breakdown of thoughts would happen when I got home. 

We all make judgement calls. Many don't wait to see if there's mutual attraction in a person who's long term unemployed. Many don't wait to see if there's mutual attraction when someone isn't officially divorced..or is a single parent.   And I wouldn't wait to see if there's mutual attraction with a guy in this situation.

I'd hate to discover there was mutual attraction in a situation which I find untenable.  That would be far more painful than stopping at the first date.

Edited August 3, 2022 by basil67

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Many don't wait to see if there's mutual attraction in a person who's long term unemployed. Many don't wait to see if there's mutual attraction when someone isn't officially divorced..or is a single parent.   And I wouldn't wait to see if there's mutual attraction with a guy in this situation.

Based on this^, I think we agree @basil67but stated differently. 

She wasn't attracted to him and didn't care to find out if she was.  She was turned off. 

That was my point all along. Had she felt a strong immediate attraction, she might have felt differently, or perhaps not.  

At this point, it doesn't really matter; at the end of day, he told her something that was a turn off to her and she quickly ended the date.  She wasn't attracted, next. 

And yes I know those were your thoughts.   But I'm glad I responded nevertheless because you expounded, which allowed for a better understanding, which is the beauty of interactive discussions like this. 

To engage, to discuss, and reach an understanding which hopefully is beneficial to the OP and others reading. 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Based on this^, I think we agree @basil67but stated differently. 

She wasn't attracted to him and didn't care to find out if she was.  She was turned off. 

That was my point all along. Had she felt a strong immediate attraction, she might have felt differently, or perhaps not.  

At this point, it doesn't really matter; at the end of day, he told her something that was a turn off to her and she quickly ended the date.  She wasn't attracted, next. 

And yes I know those were your thoughts.   But I'm glad I responded nevertheless because you expounded, which allowed for a better understanding, which is the beauty of interactive discussions like this. 

To engage, to discuss, and reach an understanding which hopefully is beneficial to the OP and others reading. 

To add (too late to edit), some posters stated had they felt an attraction, they would lose it upon hearing this information, which is fair. 

As I said, attraction and decisions made while strongly atttacted aren't always logical, but just wanted to acknowledge that sometimes they are which again is totally fair. 

We are all different and thus will react differently to receiving the same information.

Anyway, nuff said from me and all the best to the OP moving forward.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by poppyfields

[kleaners]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:44 AM, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you need to meet much sooner and discontinue the deep intimate chatting before meeting.

This is why these things tank. You both build up things in your minds and create a false connection.

There's also way too much over sharing. Dating is not therapy. 

You're divorced less than a year and that combined with tagging along with the ex's family is going to be quite off-putting to some people.

Meet sooner. Skip the TMI. Focus on your date, getting to know each other.

Only briefly mention you're divorced and remember that going on and on about exes and their families no less, is going to relegate you to the "too much baggage, not ready to date" pile in a lot of women's minds.

It's easy to say meet sooner, but one needs to consider work schedules and other pre-scheduled activities, as well as emergencies which may arise that may force a postponement. All three played a factor. So what are two people supposed to do, not talk in between? Nobody asked for this connection to develop, it just happened through casual conversation about what we were looking for in a relationship.

[kleaners]

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

The closeness with this other family you've described does explain your dedication to this family.  But from this woman's perspective, it would further cement your close connection as a deal breaker for me.   There are just too many scenarios which would require negotiation.

• What if they and I both have vacation at the same time and I want to go to the tropics with you and they want to go to the sea.  Who will you choose?   Or if you've booked time with them and find myself able to time off, are you going to still go with them...or will you take a romantic vacation with me?
• What if I want to spend a lazy Sunday with you and you need to visit with the kids?
• What if one of the kids has a birthday party at the same time as our friends are organising a lunch?
• What if I don't want to be involved with your ex's family at all?  
• What about if we marry and have kids.  How will you meet the needs of our kids if you're off vacationing or going to weekend sports with someone else's family?

Yes, of course this stuff could be negotiated, but no matter how much I liked you and was attracted to you on the date, it's not something I'd choose to entangle myself with.   Relationships take compromise as it is, and adding further complications just isn't helpful at all.

 

I agree with some other comments that a few of these things people are not thinking about that early in a potential relationship, but these questions aren't hard to answer. Of course I would prioritize the person I was dating. I've often canceled visits due something else going on. I've also declined invitations directly asked by the kids. Skipping a birthday party is not a problem - they're too busy hanging out with the other kids there anyway. Do I expect this relationship to continue forever, of course not. The kids will get older, want to hang out with friends more, and occupy their time with other activities.

I've noticed a lot of criticism toward me for maintaining this relationship (and with reasons I've duly noted), but what about the fact this relationship has been accepted by my ex and her sister? At the time when I was invited to join them on this vacation, I was dating someone who wholeheartedly accepted my continued association with my ex's family. Unfortunately, the relationship didn't last. I know my sister-in-law has brought up booking a trip next year, but perhaps given my current situation and the above advice, I reconsider going along.

[introverted1]

21 minutes ago, kleaners said:

I've noticed a lot of criticism toward me for maintaining this relationship (and with reasons I've duly noted), but what about the fact this relationship has been accepted by my ex and her sister? At the time when I was invited to join them on this vacation, I was dating someone who wholeheartedly accepted my continued association with my ex's family.

It's not criticism.  At least, that's not what I intended to imply. 

It's just acknowledgement of what many women are likely going to feel.

As you mention, there will be some women who are ok with your arrangement.  But this is probably a minority, so your choices are to either accept a longer wait or redraw the relationship with your ex and her family.  If you opt for the former, I recommend that you bring this up fairly early, since it's a complication -- akin to being separated, for instance -- that some people will want to avoid.

 

[poppyfields]

OP, my advice which I realize isn't popular, is continue doing YOU.  Live life for yourself, according to your own moral code.  Love yourself first. 

That's very powerful and if you hold true to those standards and values  for yourself, genuinely, it will pull others toward you. Naturally and organically.  

It's a strength, a confidence, a force. 

I realize when we're rejected, we need to search for a tangible reason, something that makes logical sense so we can avoid next time. 

The truth is, and there are always exceptions, is that the reasons are rarely tangible and logical. 

They just didn't feel an attraction.  That chemistry, vibe, energy which goes beyond merely physical, simply wasn't there.  Period. 

Reading these forms, and with women especially when meeting on line, they seek an immediate attraction, an immediate chemistry during the first meet. 

Often times, when not there, it's next.  Many women won't hang around to see if something could develop. Some women do, but most don't in my experience.

When you understand true attraction, you realize it's out of your control.  It's an energy, a force between both of you.  

It's emotional, very rarely logical. 

Here, she simply didn't feel it

Telling her about your situation was just the final nail in the coffin and she abruptly ended the date.

Another woman who felt a strong attraction, that energy and connection, might have felt totally differently upon learning this information.

I truly believe that. 

Try to stop over thinking it, grasping at the one thing that makes logical sense - the sitch with your ex.

Had she felt a connection, an attraction, and you began dating and she had an opportunity to consider things more logically, she may have realized it wasn't for her, and ended things. 

But initially during the first meet?  All she likely would have been thinking about is how much she wanted to touch you and kiss you.  Simply be in your presence. 

I think maybe some people forget what that feels like so they go to the one thing that makes logical sense. 

Romantic attraction rarely works that way in my experience and what I understand about it. 

Decide for yourself if the sitch with your ex and her sister is a positive force in your life.  If it is, carry on.  If not, make a change.  

For YOU, no one else. 

It doesn't matter what some women think about it, you should not live your life to please random women, especially those you meet on the internet. 

That's a recipe for failure right there and most women will eventually lose respect for you because of it. 

Get out in the real world. Develop connections that way, naturally and organically over time. 

I met my new hubs on line but I consider that a rarity.  

Like you, there were a few issues but I was so attracted, I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. 

Eventually, those issues were resolved and we recently got married.

All the best. 💛

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by poppyfields

[kleaners]

17 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

It's not criticism.  At least, that's not what I intended to imply. 

It's just acknowledgement of what many women are likely going to feel.

As you mention, there will be some women who are ok with your arrangement.  But this is probably a minority, so your choices are to either accept a longer wait or redraw the relationship with your ex and her family.  If you opt for the former, I recommend that you bring this up fairly early, since it's a complication -- akin to being separated, for instance -- that some people will want to avoid.

 

Possibly a poor word choice on my part. Certainly no ill will implied.

I was considering including something carefully worded in my dating profile. At least any prospective dates would be well aware beforehand and can inquire about it before deciding to proceed with a meet-up.

[kleaners]

7 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

OP, my advice which I realize isn't popular, is continue doing YOU.  Live life for yourself, according to your own moral code.  Love yourself first. 

That's very powerful and if you hold true to those standards and values  for yourself, genuinely, it will pull others toward, you. Naturally and organically.  

It's a strength, a confidence, a force. 

I realize when we're rejected, we need to search for a tangible reason, something that makes logical sense so we can avoid next time. 

The truth is, and there are always exceptions, is that the reasons are rarely tangible and logical. 

They just didn't feel an attraction.  That chemistry, vibe, energy which goes beyond merely physical, simply wasn't there.  Period. 

Reading these forms, and with women especially when meeting on line, they seek an immediate attraction, an immediate chemistry during the first meet. 

Often times, when not there, it's next.  Many women won't hang around to see if something could develop. Some women do, but most don't in my experience.

When you understand true attraction, you realize it's out of your control.  It's an energy, a force between both of you.  

It's emotional, very rarely logical. 

Here, she simply didn't feel it

Telling her about your situation was just the final nail in the coffin and she abruptly ended the date.

Another woman who felt a strong attraction, that energy and connection, might have felt totally differently upon learning this information.

I truly believe that. 

Try to stop over thinking it, grasping at the one thing that makes logical sense - the sitch with your ex.

Had she felt a connection, an attraction, and you began dating and she had an opportunity to consider things more logically, she may have realized it wasn't for her, and ended things. 

But initially during the first meet?  All she likely would have been thinking about is how much she wanted to touch you and kiss you.  Simply be in your presence. 

I think maybe some people forget what that feels like so they go to the one thing that makes logical sense. 

Romantic attraction rarely works that way in my experience and what I understand about it. 

Decide for yourself if the sitch with your ex and her sister is a positive force in your life.  If it is, carry on.  If not, make a change.  

For YOU, no one else. 

It doesn't matter what some women think about it, you should not live your life to please random women, especially those you meet on the internet. 

That's a recipe for failure right there and most women will eventually lose respect for you becsuse of it. 

Get out in the real world. Develop connections that way, naturally and organically over time. 

I met my new hubs on line but I consider that a rarity.  

Like you, there were a few issues but I was so attracted, I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. 

Eventually, those issues were resolved and we recently got married.

All the best. 💛

 

 

Thank you for the strong words of encouragement. I really appreciate it. I don't want to give up something that brings joy in my life, especially if all those currently involved are okay with the arrangement. Some women have to accept another guy might have children with a former partner. Granted these aren't my children, but it's a pretty close comparison. I also think I can step back a bit and still find a happy place that could be acceptable to a future partner in my life.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, kleaners said:

I was considering including something carefully worded in my dating profile. 

Do not put anything about your ex in a dating profile. Focus on you. Profession, interests, etc. No one will 'inquire" if your dating profile goes on about your ex, her family, etc.,

Edited August 3, 2022 by Wiseman2

[BrinnM]

6 hours ago, kleaners said:

I was considering including something carefully worded in my dating profile

Like what? “I’m still close to my ex-wife’s sister & her family and kids”? - I wouldn’t do that. It puts too much importance on your previous relationship. 

[Acacia98]

8 hours ago, kleaners said:

I've noticed a lot of criticism toward me for maintaining this relationship (and with reasons I've duly noted), but what about the fact this relationship has been accepted by my ex and her sister? At the time when I was invited to join them on this vacation, I was dating someone who wholeheartedly accepted my continued association with my ex's family. 

Personally, I don't think the type of relationship you have with your ex and her family necessarily raises a red flag. Maybe you're one of those people who's able to move on emotionally but remain friends with an ex. And maybe you're able to maintain decent and respectful boundaries in your interactions with each other. But I think it's safe to say that most people are not wired similarly. So you're simply going to have to figure out who, among the women you meet, are truly okay with your arrangement and to focus on dating those women. It's going to narrow your options, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some of us have qualities or have made life choices that make us incompatible with many folks and we don't necessarily want to change those things about ourselves. Depending on the circumstances, that can be a good thing, you know?

Edited August 3, 2022 by Acacia98

[basil67]

I think there's a bit of decision making that you'll need to do.  The idea of "you do you" could well work best.  Yes, it will make your dating pool smaller, but if you hold out, there will be some women who are OK with it - as evidenced by your ex girlfriend.  I guess it comes down to the decision of larger dating pool vs time with your ex's family.

The one thing I would comment on further is that I don't see this situation as being comparable to dating a person who has kids from a previous relationship.  First of all, it's expected that a father put aside a lot of time for his kids...but as you say, these aren't your kids.   And when a person has their own kids, the kids get integrated into the new relationship, as opposed to you being integrated into someone else's family.