Should I be worried?

[Tonnyblue]

I have been with my girlfriend for less than a year.  One of her best male friends, that she has known forever, is a playboy and serial cheater.   I recently learned that several decades ago they became friends « with benefits » over a period of a couple of months, at a time when they were both single.  They still see each other on a regular basis « only as friends ».  I also learned recently that she had cheated on her ex husband with another man at the end of their marriage.  I appreciate her honesty about this and she promises unequivocally to be faithful, but should i be concerned?  I am looking to build something long term and I know my value as a partner.  I am comfortable in my skin but i do not want to put my head in the sand about problems that may lie ahead. Have any of you had similar experiences and can offer advice? 

[glows]

It all depends on whether you trust her and whether she is who she says she is - faithful to you and your relationship. How did these talks come about? Such details about her past is private business and usually TMI in any other context, off limits, especially if she’s grown from the experience. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Tonnyblue said:

I recently learned that several decades ago they became friends « with benefits ».  They still see each other on a regular basis « only as friends ». 

Dating a year is a good time to observe red flags such as a lack of boundaries and she is still dating this "friend", who she only recently revealed was a lover..

[Tonnyblue]

1 hour ago, glows said:

It all depends on whether you trust her and whether she is who she says she is - faithful to you and your relationship. How did these talks come about? Such details about her past is private business and usually TMI in any other context, off limits, especially if she’s grown from the experience. 

Thanks for your answer. The talks were prompted by something we saw on tv. Nothing worrisome happened in our relationship.

[Alpacalia]

I would be (worried).

You have to be okay with the fact that she cheated on her spouse and maintains close ties with a former sex partner. If you're not (which is understandable) I just don't see this working out.

[understand50]

I would also point out the following:

She is being open and honest about her past and issues she had. You may not like her past, but it is unchangeable.  Looks like she is trying to do better this time.  My point is, do no punish her for being open and wanting to work on these issues.    Yes you should be worried, she does have a past and issues that could lead you to be on the look out, but as she is open and honest about it, I would say the first big step has been taken by her.  Give her lots of credit.  She could have kept you in the dark. Ether she feels that their is not much to your relationship, and can share, or you are the one, and she need to open and show her hart.  I would look at this as a positive.  Would you rather she keep things from you?  (BTW, this is the normal thing).   Judge her by her actions.  If she is open in her conduct, then give all the trust that earns.  Sometimes we forget it is the future we are looking for, not the unchangeable past.

I wish you luck...

[introverted1]

Both suggest loose boundaries.  WRT the cheating, has she indicated why she chose that path rather than counseling or divorce or any other option available to her that did not involve breaking her marriage vows?  what work has she done on herself to understand that choice and prevent it happening in the future?

It's true that we all make mistakes.  What's important is how we address those mistakes.  Simply saying it won't happen again, without having done the work to understand why it happened in the first place, is not enough imo.

[mark clemson]

I think it's fair and possible to be concerned and to "keep an eye on her" as well as to (IF you're comfortable with it) give her the benefit of a doubt until she actually does something.

I guess it depends how much you like her, how much you hope the relationship will work, and whether you think she's a safe bet or not, i.e. gauging the sincerity of her intent to stay loyal.

It's a gamble, but in reality it's ALWAYS a gamble, even with someone with a "perfect track record". Plenty of those people have first times and in fact we hear "I never thought I would do something like this" all the time around here.

People's core morals vary and it sounds like she doesn't have strong "core morals" against cheating (lots of people don't). So there is that. However, not cheating can be (and in a way always is) a decision that one makes, and people can and do make decisions that go against what they consider their core morals all the time. 

So that brings my thinking back to the 2nd sentence above. It's not an easy call and I get that.

Edited August 15, 2022 by mark clemson

[Tonnyblue]

4 hours ago, understand50 said:

I would also point out the following:

She is being open and honest about her past and issues she had. You may not like her past, but it is unchangeable.  Looks like she is trying to do better this time.  My point is, do no punish her for being open and wanting to work on these issues.    Yes you should be worried, she does have a past and issues that could lead you to be on the look out, but as she is open and honest about it, I would say the first big step has been taken by her.  Give her lots of credit.  She could have kept you in the dark. Ether she feels that their is not much to your relationship, and can share, or you are the one, and she need to open and show her hart.  I would look at this as a positive.  Would you rather she keep things from you?  (BTW, this is the normal thing).   Judge her by her actions.  If she is open in her conduct, then give all the trust that earns.  Sometimes we forget it is the future we are looking for, not the unchangeable past.

I wish you luck...

I should add that it was in answer to questions that i asked during the conversation that she revealed these things.  Otherwise she would not have volunteered the information.  The fact that she was transparent when asked is a positive, but maybe she thought at that point i might eventually hear about it through other people.
Also she told me she consulted with a psychologist during the separation process about the entire situation (not just the cheating) but she was uncomfortable sharing more detail so i did not press.

[Uruktopi]

As is not unusual I have a counter intuitive too personal view on these kind of stuff.

IMO people is loyal to a certain relationship and a certain person rather than mainly cos merely individual morals, character, whatever.

If she is in love and loyal to you and the partnership you both have, her past behaviours are part of the history that made her be who she is now.

Love her, the one she is by herself and with you.

Of course, do not settle for less than that. 

If  she is or becomes less than loyal (from flirty / giving space to orbiters to a more evident infidelity) THEN walk away with dignity and no anger (even if sad).

Else, honour what you both have.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Uruktopi

[glows]

On 8/15/2022 at 10:19 AM, Tonnyblue said:

I should add that it was in answer to questions that i asked during the conversation that she revealed these things.  Otherwise she would not have volunteered the information.  The fact that she was transparent when asked is a positive, but maybe she thought at that point i might eventually hear about it through other people.
Also she told me she consulted with a psychologist during the separation process about the entire situation (not just the cheating) but she was uncomfortable sharing more detail so i did not press.

She's entitled to her privacy. Now that the toothpaste is out of the tube, how do you feel towards her? If you can't be comfortable with her, let her go. Both of you deserve to be with people who love and respect you, not resentful towards one another or intimidated or in disagreement over issues you don't accept in the relationship.

[Zona]

Yes you should be worried. If you are thinking of getting married in the future, I would find someone with better boundaries and judgement. Once you tie the knot, and especially if you have kids, disentangling from a spouse is infinitely more difficult.

[stillafool]

How many years ago was it that she was married and cheated.  She could have just been young and dumb but is now a different person.  It's doubtful she'd want to sneak around having sex with a guy she's already had sex with so don't worry about that friend.  She's been there and done that.

[merrmeade]

A lot of times on this forum, you read about a WS trying to convince the BS that they didn’t “go all the way” in the affair. Someone then points out to the writer that adults don’t just go back to being teenagers, contented with just messing around, feelups or even oral sex and then no more. They don’t stop halfway.

Well, I think it’s the same with boundary-pushing, making an exception here and then there, cheating here and there because it’s easy, fun and no one will find out. Or they tell themselves that this behavior is innocent and doesn’t mean anything.. It’s the ease with which cheaters who’ve cheated once will cheat again. They often think of it as a one-off when they find themselves in a situation or with someone in a conducive setting. I think that if you can move a boundary aside once, it’s easier the next time..

So the familiarity your girlfriend has with her one-time friend with benefits is the situation that worries me the most for you. I doubt if she’d plan to cheat with him on you, but I also don’t think for one minute she’d tell you if she did. And they’re so familiar with each other and it just doesn’t mean that much even if they did. They’d just agree not to tell.

I’m just not able to believe that anyone who has cheated more than once, has enough of a problem with cheating to stop themselves although this is way too general. There are a whole lot of behaviors that lead to cheating. One of them is just not thinking about what’s risky behavior. The whole concept of avoiding certain situations or disengaging from flirtatious behavior they don’t think is important because they’ve promised “unequivocally to be faithful.”  But do they really know what that entails?

Edited August 27, 2022 by merrmeade

[Older 'n' wiser]

11 hours ago, merrmeade said:

So the familiarity your girlfriend has with her one-time friend with benefits is the situation that worries me the most for you. I doubt if she’d plan to cheat with him on you, but I also don’t think for one minute she’d tell you if she did. And they’re so familiar with each other and it just doesn’t mean that much even if they did. They’d just agree not to tell.

And so cheating requires lying. The deception is part and parcel. I used to think, “It’s the deception that the worst,” not realizing you simply won’t have one without the other.

How they look at it is another question. That’s the next part. They make it all right for everybody. Usually it’s that the truth will cause too much upset and pain (translate: hassle for them).

The effort and calculation it takes to deceive and obscure is - to me - what erodes character over time. It becomes a job, a habit, a practice that seeps into other areas of life and, as I said, their character. That possibility (inevitability?) is what makes her a less than ideal candidate for an exclusive, committed, lifetime relationship. Think about it.  

People who cheat and then have to confess because they can’t stand it - those people have hope. But only they know who they are.

Note: I say “only they know” because sometimes you can’t distinguish them from the cheaters who want to look like that’s what they’re doing. The ruse of revealing partial truth to make it look like a confession and, thus, avoid a full confession is not uncommon. I’ve decided it’s foolhardy because the skills required to bring it off are not ordinary. Whatever. I’m speaking hypothetically, but it’s a hypothesis formed from hundreds of examples on this forum that share the same patterns. I just would think you’d rather not learn it from experience. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Older 'n' wiser