Is it normal

[Skyline0817]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

It seems you stated that your  reaction was not immediate, but came upon reflection that you didn't like it and he's a pervert.

Yes, at the end of the day, meant the moment I was back home, and then was able to rest a bit with breathe and reflection. Is something wrong with that? Or you have to nitpick upon?

Again, if the incidents were not accidental, "jerk", "pervert" or else, no difference to describe. 

 

[Weezy1973]

4 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Lots of harassment victims feel terrified and cornered in the moment and powerless!--so they don't loudly object in real time.  Doesn't mean they aren't screaming inside. 

But she didn’t feel terrified or cornered in the moment. That’s the point I think. Only after did she start to wonder was it inappropriate- and I suspect everybody here agrees that on the surface it really wasn’t. If on his mind he was just trying to cop a feel or something, we can’t know. Put it this way. Does anybody think what he did should be illegal? I don’t think so. 

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, Skyline0817 said:

Again, if the incidents were not accidental, "jerk", "pervert" or else, no difference to describe. 

 

Clearly the hand on your back during the picture wasn’t an accident. But it’s also not sexual or perverted or a jerk move. It’s a very common thing during group photos. The driving incident sounds more like just a reaction / instinct. And regardless, certainly not sexual / perverted and nothing jerk like. Why are you trying to twist this into something  insidious?

[Skyline0817]

7 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Clearly the hand on your back during the picture wasn’t an accident. But it’s also not sexual or perverted or a jerk move. It’s a very common thing during group photos. The driving incident sounds more like just a reaction / instinct. And regardless, certainly not sexual / perverted and nothing jerk like. Why are you trying to twist this into something  insidious?

Because, not sure where you are, here it is common sense no matter under what situation, hands off on different gender or even same gender of your coworkers in Corporate environment. We have the training over and over and over. Plus, yesterday without telling my hubby what happened (as he is about to head down a different city for training/meeting during next few months) I was asking him, how do you think, or would you put your hands on the female coworker standing next to you when you guys have group pic. Hubby is an old school, he is shocked by saying "no way" not now, not even before (before "Me-too" ...etc).

Not sure what other companies are doing, but In ours, comment on other workers' outfit . i.e. you look great..would be considered as Sexual Harassment. It is in the book. So can you imagine hand touch?

Edited August 21, 2022 by Skyline0817

[Weezy1973]

2 minutes ago, Skyline0817 said:

Because, not sure where you are, here it is common sense no matter under what situation, hands off on different gender or even same gender of your coworkers in Corporate environment.

Is that the HR policy where you both work? I have plenty of group photos at work, and there are lots of arms around each other, around shoulders, on backs etc. 

[Skyline0817]

5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Is that the HR policy where you both work? I have plenty of group photos at work, and there are lots of arms around each other, around shoulders, on backs etc. 

Correct....I believe Company has this strict rule also to protect company itself, in case one of the employees being commented or being touched raises the claim, so better educate all employees not to do such thing.  Which means if the employee enjoys the touch or verbal comment, that would be different story and obviously he or she won't raise the case for SH.

Just looking at my previous group pics, our hands/arms were only with ourselves not on anyone else, especially from different gender.

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Skyline0817

[stillafool]

20 hours ago, Skyline0817 said:

I still have a sense that this man is not intentionally handling you. Since you don't know (women often DO know, even if it seems innocent)"? I am not quite comprehending what you meant.

I think he means "feeling you up" when he said "handling you".

[stillafool]

39 minutes ago, Skyline0817 said:

.I believe Company has this strict rule also to protect company itself,

Then it would be wise of them to not encourage this ride sharing unless females go in one vehicle and men go in the other.  With cars being so small these days it's almost impossible to get in one without having to touch someone.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Skyline0817 said:

Correct....I believe Company has this strict rule also to protect company itself,

 

So just to be clear. You’re saying the HR policy at your work is that there will be no touching. No handshakes, no high fives etc. If that’s the case, you need to report him to HR. It’s clear cut.

[NuevoYorko]

Truly, the very best advice on this thread is that if someone does something that makes you uncomfortable, ask them to stop.

Because of these 2 touching incidents, you have downgraded your opinion of the man from an exciting leader to a pervert, and now you are on a message board soliciting the input of strangers who were not there.

As someone else said, the only thing that really matters is how YOU felt about it.   Advocate for yourself.  

[Skyline0817]

Since the unwanted touching happened in 1.5 months ago (Original post link below), whenever we had group events or meeting or activities I have been staying far way from that leader. I also tried to avoid to look at him as much as I can even in the same meeting room, I am sure he has sensed my avoidance since.

The recent company charity activities that located at downtown far away from office, company arranged two school buses or you can drive your car. Of course I signed on for bus, together with some of our same department colleagues. In the event registration I noticed he picked the choice of driving instead of school bus. On the day of event before departure, he came over when me and colleagues were having lunch, and asked how we would get there. Most of us answered taking bus including me, he then said he would follow up (by taking bus) despite his previous registration was driving.

On the way to event, he was sitting in the same bus, one row behind me, together with me and our same dept colleagues, which was totally fine. In the event, I went along with other department to finish the charity activity and had much fun. On the way back, I realized I must had too much fun chatting with other dept colleagues, and missed the first bus back to office. When I rushed onto 2nd bus, I noticed there had no my same department colleagues, but he was there, also on the 2nd bus. I picked the seat sitting far away from him. The whole time on the road I can hear he talked so loud to the person sat close to him, about their Thanksgiving planning, and his wife ...etc, which is opposite to his normal behavior which is reserved and quiet.

Anyway, when we were all arriving to the office, I was happily chatting with one female coworker who arrived earlier has been waiting for me in the office at 1st floor. when I raised my eyesight, I noticed he was walking on the stairs from 1st floor to 2nd floor but he is STARING at me all the time. I can not forget the chilling stare, do not know how to describe it, it frozen me. 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/607095-is-it-normal/

 

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by Skyline0817

[mark clemson]

An odd development. It sounds like he senses you feel uncomfortable around him and/or that you have zero interest in communicating with him. Some people don't worry about this sort of thing, but others "manage" their social surrounds more proactively. This includes at work, as an organization is ultimately made of people.

He may feel uncomfortable himself, and your "cold shoulder" may make him worry that you are an "enemy" that he must deal with. Try to make it clear (subtly, of course) that while you have no interest in socializing with him you are ALSO not a threat to him at work (and perhaps are even supportive of his initiatives at work). That should help whatever this was blow over.

There are, unfortunately, some people who "climb" socially and professionally but who also have very dark sides that they put on a "facade" to cover. Think Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, etc. They are not overly common, but they certainly exist. HOPEFULLY, he is not that, as if he is he MIGHT decide to (attempt to) cause problems for you. However, doing what I suggested above, while continuing to avoid non-work-required contact, will probably help to minimize any issues.

[Skyline0817]

15 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

An odd development. It sounds like he senses you feel uncomfortable around him and/or that you have zero interest in communicating with him. Some people don't worry about this sort of thing, but others "manage" their social surrounds more proactively. This includes at work, as an organization is ultimately made of people.

He may feel uncomfortable himself, and your "cold shoulder" may make him worry that you are an "enemy" that he must deal with. Try to make it clear (subtly, of course) that while you have no interest in socializing with him you are ALSO not a threat to him at work (and perhaps are even supportive of his initiatives at work). That should help whatever this was blow over.

There are, unfortunately, some people who "climb" socially and professionally but who also have very dark sides that they put on a "facade" to cover. Think Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, etc. They are not overly common, but they certainly exist. HOPEFULLY, he is not that, as if he is he MIGHT decide to (attempt to) cause problems for you. However, doing what I suggested above, while continuing to avoid non-work-required contact, will probably help to minimize any issues.

Yes, because he is the senior leader of our company and No. 1 in our department, he is the final saying for everyone's promotion and performance rating. I have been trying to overcome my uncomfortableness surrounding him, tried very hard and my best to act and talk "naturally" towards him. But his stare at the end of our company charity event, made me shiver from top to bottom. I wish I can describe, he was walking on stair while staring at me, felt like I am being "eating up" somehow.😬 May I say I have lost over 9lb since the incident/unwanted touches happened 1.5 months, as I have tried to hold it up myself not telling anyone.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Skyline0817

[mark clemson]

Ok, well, one can't always control what others do, unfortunately. Hopefully it was really nothing and will blow over. IF you suddenly find you're getting unwarranted bad performance reviews or the like, you may have to consider looking for a new job. However, while that might happen, there's no reason to assume at this point that it actually will.