[UPDATE] FWB isn't reaching out to me

[Starrybeach]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I do understand that it's fun to be a proactive woman - I've done that myself in the past.  Thing is though, if we do all the planning and paying, then the guy will likely come even if he's only half interested.   You said earlier that you wanted to be at least 80% sure he also really wants this.  The only way to see how much he wants this is to wait for him to return your serve. 

Also, how will you feel if he's telling his mates that this older woman is wanting sex, doing all the reaching out and paying?  Because he will do this!  If you're cool with that, then more power to you, but again, if you'd feel embarrassed, take pause.

Thanks again for bringing up these valid points. I wouldn't feel embarrassed at all, or cared what he tells his friends as long as I felt he is being honest with his feelings and shows me respect. So far he has given me that impression but of course, I don't really know him that well so there is always the risk that after I pay for his trip he turns into a jerk and I am left with a bad feeling.

Regarding the 80% sure, if he contacts me l'll be 100% sure, so again that'd be great.

But if he doesn't, what I am trying to figure out is how do I approach him to get that 80% certainty before I offer to cover his expenses if that's the only barrier?

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, Starrybeach said:

Really? Nothing? Please keep in mind that we both are not looking for relationships, so of course he's not going to go all out and tell me when can I see you again, etc, as it would send out the wrong signal.

I also didn't say anything about meeting again, except the generic "contact me if you visit".

From what I understand, in a FWB situation, men typically wait for the woman to take the initiative, as opposed to dating when they want a relationship, where the man is the one taking the initiative.

No but this speech said it all 

 

2 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

Quote

 

Specifically, this is how it went: I asked him if he ever thinks about the women he hooks up with.

In response, he brought up the texting topic, not me, I was just asking about the feelings, because I knew I would feel sad the next day, and it would help if I knew he was feeling something too.

 

The above highlight made it sound like you already had caught feelings for him asking about his past hook ups.  I don't think that is something a woman interested in casual would ask a new partner right after sex.  Instead of answering you he changed the subject.

Quote

He said, sounding sincere, "you can write to me if you like, and I will respond" which I thought was nice since I've been ghosted and it sucks.

What would have been nicer is if he had said you can call me and if I'm not around leave as message and I will call you back.

Quote

Then I clarified that I am also too busy to text regularly but I am interested in how long it takes him to forget a hookup, because "I know that even if I don't want a relationship, the next day I will miss him." (With the emphasis on not wanting a relationship)

Again, your statement comes off as needy and trying to get him to commit to staying in touch with you.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by stillafool

[Starrybeach]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

No but this speech said it all 

 

 

Sorry, how does my statement come off as wanting him to stay in touch? At that point, I wasn't yet wanting to stay in touch with him, and I even said "it is probably best if we don't have contact"

I am only now, three days later, still thinking about him and deciding whether I want to pursue it (well, mostly I have decided it but I am wondering when and how)

[Starrybeach]

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

No but this speech said it all 

 

What would have been nicer is if he had said you can call me and if I'm not around leave as message and I will call you back.

I guess, but we haven't had any phone calls, nor I think he calls his friends or other hookups/FWB. It is all done by text now

[Starrybeach]

8 minutes ago, stillafool said:

No but this speech said it all 

 

The above highlight made it sound like you already had caught feelings for him asking about his past hook ups. I don't think that is something a woman interested in casual would ask a new partner right after sex. Instead of answering you he changed the subject.

Yes, I was aware when I brought that up that it would be a touchy subject, but it was more from the point of view that after sharing an intimate connection (the hugging, kissing and staring at each other's eyes, not just the sex) I know that for me there are a few days of "recovery" where I will miss that person, but it doesn't mean in the least that I have caught feelings and all of a sudden I want a relationship. It happens to me to some extent with every single guy, even when the hookup is not great. So I was just curious if the same happens to guys, and because he was so open and honest with his feelings, I asked him. He said it takes him 4 days to a week to move on.

[stillafool]

7 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

I guess, but we haven't had any phone calls, nor I think he calls his friends or other hookups/FWB. It is all done by text now

I know.  That's how FWBs/hookups work.  Phone calls say you want to hear their voice.  It's more personal.

[Starrybeach]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

I know.  That's how FWBs/hookups work.  Phone calls say you want to hear their voice.  It's more personal.

Exactly, and this is just a FWB at most

[basil67]

58 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

But if he doesn't, what I am trying to figure out is how do I approach him to get that 80% certainty before I offer to cover his expenses if that's the only barrier?

You wait for him to contact you.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by basil67

[Starrybeach]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

You wait for him to contact you.

There truly is no way for you to reach out and offer to cover expenses without looking like you're paying for his services

🤣 I definitely don't want it to look that way.

That's the point, I would contact him without mentioning anything about that.

Only after he shows interest in visiting me, if he mentions money being a barrier, would I offer to help.

[NuevoYorko]

None of this sounds like you are interested in FWB / casual sex.  There is nothing casual about it.  Talking about feelings, musing about the possibility of him moving to your city,  perhaps paying for him to travel to have sex with you, carefully examining all the angles, trying to protect yourself from rejection  ... aside from your mentioning that you don't want a relationship, all your language is extremely romantic.  

If you want to be a modern empowered woman going after a night of sex with a man, go for it.  You wouldn't think of caring whether you came off as "needy" or whatever.  If you feel like paying him for it, go ahead, no shame in that. Try for what you want.   Alternatively, you can forget about all of this until / unless he reaches out and then you can decide if you feel like having a roll in the hay with him at that point.   And I guess at that time you could offer the financial incentive as well. 

The romantic, sentimental fantasies need to be out of this picture, though.  They don't belong in it.  You come off as very consumed about this summer fling. A guy who is really clear with himself that he's not interested in a relationship will read you as looking for a lot more than casual sex.   Your feelings are going to get hurt, I fear.

Edited August 23, 2022 by NuevoYorko

[Starrybeach]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

None of this sounds like you are interested in FWB / casual sex.  There is nothing casual about it.  Talking about feelings, musing about the possibility of him moving to your city,  perhaps paying for him to travel to have sex with you, carefully examining all the angles, trying to protect yourself from rejection  ... aside from your mentioning that you don't want a relationship, all your language is extremely romantic.  

If you want to be a modern empowered woman going after a night of sex with a man, go for it.  You wouldn't think of caring whether you came off as "needy" or whatever.  If you feel like paying him for it, go ahead, no shame in that. Try for what you want.   Alternatively, you can forget about all of this until / unless he reaches out and then you can decide if you feel like having a roll in the hay with him at that point.   And I guess at that time you could offer the financial incentive as well. 

The romantic, sentimental fantasies need to be out of this picture, though.  They don't belong in it.  You come off as very consumed about this summer fling. A guy who is really clear with himself that he's not interested in a relationship will read you as looking for a lot more than casual sex.   Your feelings are going to get hurt, I fear.

Thank you NuevoYorko, I can see how it may come accross that way. To explain, for me, casual relationships are not feeling-free. There may be people who can really feel absolutely nothing, but I think that's actually rare and I am not one of them (and neither is this guy, since he admitted needing some time to get over hookups)

For me, having some feelings is automatic. But I define a casual relationship as one in which: 1) you are not in love 2) you don't want/need to keep in constant/regular contact 3) you are not responsible for each other/expect much from the other (e.g. if you're sick, you don't expect them to take care of you) and 4) you don't want/envision a future with this person beyond the next few months.

So a FWB for me is a relationship in which you like each other, want to spend time with the other (mostly for sex but could occasionally include other activities) and you care as people for each other (the friends part) without actually being in love.

I do tend to obsess over these kind of decisions, but it's not because I am consumed as you put it. It's because in the past I have tended to come accross as needy and have ruined some relationships and I am working on that. Men tend to run for the hills if they sense a hint of neediness and it's frustrating to me as I truly did not want a relationship.

If I contact him and he's not interested, fine. But I just don't want to feel again that he was not interested solely because he thought I was needy/catching feelings/however you want to put it, because that's not the case.

Any feedback on when and how I contact him? Should I wait until it's been a week? Should I contact him from the sexual angle?

[ExpatInItaly]

12 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

 He said he would, that he doesn't have time to keep in contact by messaging app but that I could write to him if I wanted and he would reply.

This is more or less a brush-off, OP. He's letting you know he had fun but doesn't really intend to keep in touch. If you reach out, he will answer? Wow. Romantic. He's not-so-subtly telling you that he isn't very interested beyond this being a holiday fling and you need to keep your expectations very low. 

6 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

Only after he shows interest in visiting me, if he mentions money being a barrier, would I offer to help.

For a guy who told you he doesn't have time to keep in contact, and a guy you have met once, this is too much. My guess is he will see it that way, too. 

I read your posts as quite embued with sentimental meaning. You speak about beautiful moments, tender texts, and so on. But what I see is also a young guy who had fun and enjoyed your company, but doesn't view it as emotionally as you do nor necssarily intended it that way. I would take a step back and reflect on what it is you're trying to hang on to by entertaining this idea - are you a bit lonely at the moment? Was it the sweet words? Feeling desired? Because when you take those things out of context and and realize they were coming from a guy you don't know on any signficant level, you might second-guess how much effort this particular man is really worth. 

[Starrybeach]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This is more or less a brush-off, OP. He's letting you know he had fun but doesn't really intend to keep in touch. If you reach out, he will answer? Wow. Romantic. He's not-so-subtly telling you that he isn't very interested beyond this being a holiday fling and you need to keep your expectations very low. 

In the very summarised way I put it in my OP, yes, it would sound that way. But in the context of the whole conversation and that last meeting, in which the prevailing idea was that we're not going to see each other again (I was the one saying that), I am not sure it necessary was a brush off. He was talking in general, he said even with his buddies, he doesn't talk unless they are going to meet.

But yes, I was a bit surprised that he brought it up, I didn't ask him to keep in contact, I just wanted to know if he can spend a week like that and be absolutely fine and have zero feelings the next day. But just out of curiosity and because I know I'm not like that.

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

For a guy who told you he doesn't have time to keep in contact, and a guy you have met once, this is too much. My guess is he will see it that way, too. 

I read your posts as quite embued with sentimental meaning. You speak about beautiful moments, tender texts, and so on. But what I see is also a young guy who had fun and enjoyed your company, but doesn't view it as emotionally as you do nor necssarily intended it that way. I would take a step back and reflect on what it is you're trying to hang on to by entertaining this idea - are you a bit lonely at the moment? Was it the sweet words? Feeling desired? Because when you take those things out of context and and realize they were coming from a guy you don't know on any signficant level, you might second-guess how much effort this particular man is really worth. 

We met three times, and it was a week in total including the initial texting. He was the one pursuing me most of that time, and writing a goodbye text when he could have just left after saying "see you around" in the morning if he really didn't want more.

I agree covering his expenses is a bit much but if he is sincere, I don't see a problem with it.

Thank you for your advice to step back and reflect. I have done that several times. The conclusion I have come up with is that I have never come accross a guy who is so open about his feelings and I think that's rare. Most of my other FWB/hookups are always a guessing game, and with him I knew where I stood and while I am overanalyzing the last encounter a bit too much (partly because of the comments here) I am still fairly certain that he will want to meet me again.

Yes, he wasn't offering to visit me on our very last conversation, but I said we'll probably never see each other again, I said it's best if we don't have contact, etc. I think he was just taking me at my word and also aware that he cannot afford to visit me.

[ExpatInItaly]

20 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

We met three times, and it was a week in total including the initial texting. He was the one pursuing me most of that time,

When I say you met once,  I meant that you have only spent this one isolated, short period with him. 

I also wouldn't consider what he did "purusing," really.  You were both on the app and met for sex. Most guys are going to happy to reach out to you if you also seem okay with no-strings sex- And there's nothing wrong with that. I am just not sure I woud frame it as pursuing when it was primarily sex. 

Look, you can certainly reach out if you want. I'm simply not seeing much mutual interest in keeping in touch, which would put me off asking him to meet again. He doesn't seem that bothered, from my point of view.  Only reach out if you would be fine if he's wishy-washy, declines, or doesn't reply at all. If any of that would hurt you, t's not a good idea. 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by ExpatInItaly

[Starrybeach]

9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

When I say you met once,  I meant that you have only spent this one isolated, short period with him. 

Understood

9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I also wouldn't consider what he did "purusing," really.  You were both on the app and met for sex. Most guys are going to happy to reach out to you if you also seem okay with no-strings sex- And there's nothing wrong with that. I am just not sure I woud frame it as pursuing when it was primarily sex. 

I said pursuing because 1) he had to "convince me" the first night, I wasn't sure I wanted to go with him initially 2) he said he liked me and wanted a romance 3) he kept insisting to meet again 4) he kept telling me how great/pretty/etc I am 5) he talked about hoping to see me again and even moving to my city

I didn't correspond much of that. I never said I liked him, ignored it when he mentioned moving to my city, said I was busy when he wanted to meet, etc.

That is a lot more pursuing than any other hookup/FWB I had before.

9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Look, you can certainly reach out if you want. I'm simply not seeing much mutual interest in keeping in touch, which would put me off asking him to meet again. He doesn't seem that bothered, from my point of view.  Only reach out if you would be fine if he's wishy-washy, declines, or doesn't reply at all. If any of that would hurt you, t's not a good idea. 

 

Thanks, I agree that I still have to keep my expectations low. It would always sting a bit to get rejected, that is human nature, and that's why I want to be 80% sure, but I won't be devastated if he declines or doesn't reply.

[Starrybeach]

Thank you all for your comments, they have been very helpful and I have decided that I will reach out to him and keep my expectations low.

I would now welcome advice on how to do it [ ] 

Edited August 23, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
related to merged thread

[Starrybeach]

[ ] 

I have now decided that I want to reach out to him, while keeping my expectations low.

I would appreciate some advice on how to do contact him so as not to come off as needy.

1) Should I wait until it's been a week?

2) Should I just say "hi, how are you?" or something similar?

3) Or should I approach it from the sexual angle? (our fling was mostly about sex)

Thank you in advance!

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
merged threads

[Wiseman2]

Wait until he contacts you and do not pay him to visit you. That could make him feel like a gigolo.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Starrybeach]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Wait until he contacts you and do not pay him to visit you. That could make him feel like a gigolo.

Good point 🤣

However, he actually joked the first night that he wouldn't mind if I was his "sugar mommy" 

Also, I have already decided I will contact him if he doesn't, I just need to decide how long I wait.

[basil67]

45 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

Also, I have already decided I will contact him if he doesn't, I just need to decide how long I wait.

Do it sooner rather than later.  At this point, you don't know if he's interested in seeing you again or not, so it won't be too weird.  But if you leave it for a while and he doesn't reach out in that time, then you'll know for sure that he's not interested and any approach is likely to end in awkwardness. 

[Starrybeach]

41 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is that what you want? Hopefully you won't be scammed into sending money which he'll of course spend on local young ladies.

🤣 no, it was just a joke, I am quite sure he isn't planning on scamming me, and he hasn't asked for any money

[Starrybeach]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Do it sooner rather than later.  At this point, you don't know if he's interested in seeing you again or not, so it won't be too weird.  But if you leave it for a while and he doesn't reach out in that time, then you'll know for sure that he's not interested and any approach is likely to end in awkwardness. 

Ok, thanks for the advice, it's a good point.

[Starrybeach]

As an update, for those interested, I contacted him and he relied 15 minutes later, so I was clearly overthinking things a bit 😆 

[fred123]

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

As an update, for those interested, I contacted him and he relied 15 minutes later, so I was clearly overthinking things a bit 😆 

what dis he say?

[NuevoYorko]

7 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

Understood

 2) he said he liked me and wanted a romance

I wonder if you had not have texted him that first time if any of the rest of it would have happened.  Nothing wrong with you initiating the contact after the first time you hooked up, but in doing so you already took on the driver's role and removed the possibility of knowing whether or not he's interested enough to take action (you say you want "80%" which is also a very NOT "casual FWB" state of mind - that 80% requirement = STRINGS ARE ATTACHED) of his own accord.    No problem with taking charge, but you will not and can not know , going forward, if his interest is close to the same level as yours if you don't wait and see what he does on his own.    You kind of need to pick one or the other.  

 From a man's perspective, I imagine that he's  uncomfortable with the  romantic conversations you've initiated.  Good fun sex is a positive, but having to navigate talks about feelings and the future would be a DANGER sign for many guys who just enjoyed a fun fling.  "NSA" is not possible anymore.   If we  (not every guy, but speaking for myself and plenty of others) want NSA, we do not want to talk about feelings, reciprocity or future plans.  .  It doesn't mean that feelings are not involved, but we don't want to share about them with our NSA sex partners.  That's the whole point of NSA deals - all the fun of sex without any of the weight of relationships.  

In any case, I hope this turns out the way you want it to.  Have fun.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by NuevoYorko