[UPDATE] FWB isn't reaching out to me

[Starrybeach]

38 minutes ago, fred123 said:

what dis he say?

Sounds like he's coming to visit. He's looking at dates. So yay!

[Starrybeach]

59 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

I wonder if you had not have texted him that first time if any of the rest of it would have happened.  Nothing wrong with you initiating the contact after the first time you hooked up, but in doing so you already took on the driver's role and removed the possibility of knowing whether or not he's interested enough to take action (you say you want "80%" which is also a very NOT "casual FWB" state of mind - that 80% requirement = STRINGS ARE ATTACHED) of his own accord.    No problem with taking charge, but you will not and can not know , going forward, if his interest is close to the same level as yours if you don't wait and see what he does on his own.    You kind of need to pick one or the other.  

 From a man's perspective, I imagine that he's  uncomfortable with the  romantic conversations you've initiated.  Good fun sex is a positive, but having to navigate talks about feelings and the future would be a DANGER sign for many guys who just enjoyed a fun fling.  "NSA" is not possible anymore.   If we  (not every guy, but speaking for myself and plenty of others) want NSA, we do not want to talk about feelings, reciprocity or future plans.  .  It doesn't mean that feelings are not involved, but we don't want to share about them with our NSA sex partners.  That's the whole point of NSA deals - all the fun of sex without any of the weight of relationships.  

In any case, I hope this turns out the way you want it to.  Have fun.

 

Thank you for your perspective, Nuevoyorko, the reason I contacted him after the first night was because he had been very clear that he wanted to see me again and I hadn't corresponded.

He's not the most confident guy, and after all the enthusiasm he showed that night, while I was a bit lukewarm, I thought it would be good to let him know that, actually, I had enjoyed it too.

I didn't initiate any romantic conversations at all, it was him who said he liked me and wanted a romance, and kept insisting to meet again, so he took on the driver's role again.

I think you misunderstand the 80% "requirement". By that I just mean that after sleeping with a guy, if he doesn't contact me, I will only contact him if I am 80% sure that he enjoyed it too and would like to see me again. Otherwise, I let it go. It has nothing to do with strings, it only has to do with whether it is worth contacting a guy, or is best to forget about him.

Thanks for your well wishes, so far it seems that my impression of this guy was correct, and he wants to visit me. We'll see how it goes.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Starrybeach

[stillafool]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:24 PM, Starrybeach said:

Yes, we are dating other people for sure. I'm 32 and he's nearly 26.

So he's 25.  I hope you aren't expecting too much since this guy is only 25.  I'm sure he's nice but being a man his age, good in bed, he probably gets around.  I hope you meant what you said about not wanting to be exclusive but you really aren't acting like it.  At first you said you'd wait a week to contact him; but you could barely wait 3 days, talking about paying his way, etc., plus going to a forum to talk about him, you sound completely smitten and not casual at all about him.  A lot of young men his age do enjoy the attention and sex of an older woman for experience to use on younger girls.  Not that 7 years is a big age difference but at his age it is because you are at different stages in life.  If this was just a fling, you had sex and then just went about your business until the next hook up I would think it's casual.

[stillafool]

6 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

Nuevoyorko, the reason I contacted him after the first night was because he had been very clear that he wanted to see me again and I hadn't corresponded.

If he was clear he wanted to see you again why wasn't he the one to contact you first instead of the other way around.  By being anxious to talk to him and calling him first you will never know if he had you on his mind and he wanted to contact you.  Instead he just replied to you which is a polite thing to do after a hook up.

[ExpatInItaly]

12 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

Sounds like he's coming to visit. He's looking at dates. So yay!

Is he at least going to pay his own way? 

 

[Starrybeach]

8 hours ago, stillafool said:

So he's 25.  I hope you aren't expecting too much since this guy is only 25.  I'm sure he's nice but being a man his age, good in bed, he probably gets around.  I hope you meant what you said about not wanting to be exclusive but you really aren't acting like it.  At first you said you'd wait a week to contact him; but you could barely wait 3 days, talking about paying his way, etc., plus going to a forum to talk about him, you sound completely smitten and not casual at all about him.  A lot of young men his age do enjoy the attention and sex of an older woman for experience to use on younger girls.  Not that 7 years is a big age difference but at his age it is because you are at different stages in life.  If this was just a fling, you had sex and then just went about your business until the next hook up I would think it's casual.

I think I have been pretty clear that my expectations are very low and that I don't want a relationship 😆

I have a date with another guy this Sunday, and I have other FWBs. We're definitely seeing other people.

I contacted him yesterday instead of waiting for a week because someone on this forum said it would be better to do it sooner rather than later, since it could become awkard if I waited too long. Otherwise, I would have waited a week.

I'm not smitten with him, it won't matter much if I don't see him again but if he comes to visit me I think we'll have a lot of fun again.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Starrybeach

[Starrybeach]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Is he at least going to pay his own way? 

 

We haven't discussed the details yet, but I said I could help him with the cost. I expect he will pay some of it and I'll pay the rest.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Starrybeach said:

We haven't discussed the details yet, but I said I could help him with the cost. I expect he will pay some of it and I'll pay the rest.

How did he respond to that? 

[Weezy1973]

I think the confusion lies in the amount of mental space it seems this guy is taking up. Something casual shouldn’t be forum thread worthy. You mentioned you’re having sex with other men and assuming he’s also having sex with other women, so really to each other you’re just another casual sex partner. 
 

Random question through - why don’t you want a relationship? Not with this guy in particular, just in general?

[stillafool]

It doesn't surprise me that he would travel back to have sex with you at your expense.  Why not?  It's flattering to him.  

[NuevoYorko]

This is the problem you're encountering here:

Yes, you have said many times over that you do not want a relationship.

Your actions, however, are so  thirsty.  You come off as desperately wanting a LOT with this particular man, starting right at the beginning when you initiated "round 2" and every other move and conversation since.

Exactly none of your behavior with the guy matches that of a woman who just wants fun sex.  

Some of the conversations you've shared make me feel a little cringey; for example, him telling you that if you messaged him he would respond.

Ugh.  He told you, basically, that you would not be hearing from him.  

If you'd posted that you have hopes for a relationship with this youngster, people would be advising you to slow your roll.   Nobody is telling you this now because you keep assuring the members that you don't care what happens and you're only in it for the sex.   In fact, though, people who are only interested in CASUAL sex do not behave the way you are.  Never.  Because the "casual" part is missing.

 

[BrinnM]

8 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

He is coming to visit me.

Let me ask you this: Would this be happening, if you didn’t pay for it, or if you did not “financially contribute”?

 

[Lisa]

The thread has had a clean up of posts where the author hasn't seen @Starrybeach's  update 

As an update, for those interested, I contacted him and he relied 15 minutes later, so I was clearly overthinking things a bit  

Please ensure your posts address the current status of the situation

[Starrybeach]

7 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

This is the problem you're encountering here:

Yes, you have said many times over that you do not want a relationship.

Your actions, however, are so  thirsty.  You come off as desperately wanting a LOT with this particular man, starting right at the beginning when you initiated "round 2" and every other move and conversation since.

Exactly none of your behavior with the guy matches that of a woman who just wants fun sex.  

Some of the conversations you've shared make me feel a little cringey; for example, him telling you that if you messaged him he would respond.

Ugh.  He told you, basically, that you would not be hearing from him.  

If you'd posted that you have hopes for a relationship with this youngster, people would be advising you to slow your roll.   Nobody is telling you this now because you keep assuring the members that you don't care what happens and you're only in it for the sex.   In fact, though, people who are only interested in CASUAL sex do not behave the way you are.  Never.  Because the "casual" part is missing.

 

Thanks again for your perspective, I am interested in knowing why you see me this way and how I can fix it.

I am truly not interested in anything but having FWBs. 

But I am aware that I can come accross as needy, and I have already said on this thread that, in the past, I have scared some men away even though I wasn't looking for anything more than a FWB (as defined in one of my earlier replies).

I am an overthinker, and I analyze in detail my interactions with all people, not just with men. Any interaction where things don't go as I expect, or where I am not sure what to expect, I tend to overanalyze. I cannot help it. It doesn't mean I am obsessed with the guy, or in love, or wanting more than a FWB.

So can you tell me how I can avoid this in the future? How would a woman behave so to a man's eyes she is only looking for something casual?

Regarding the fact that you find parts of my story "cringey", I would appreciate if you kept such judgements to yourself. In the context of that conversation and our fling, there was nothing wrong with him saying he is not going to keep regular contact as I also did not expect him to.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Starrybeach

[Weezy1973]

13 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

So can you tell me how I can avoid this in the future? How would a woman behave so to a man's eyes she is only looking for something casual?

So I think it really starts with genuinely not caring if the other person is interested or not. And then acting accordingly. Essentially the opposite of what your whole thread has been about. You wouldn’t even need to create a thread because you wouldn’t care one way or another. One of the main benefits of a casual fwb is the lack of mental space it takes up. Let’s you focus on the things that are important to you. It’s often why people choose not to get into relationships in the first place. They’re focused on other things and don’t have the time to spend on cultivating a relationship. You’ve spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about this guy. 

[Starrybeach]

6 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

So I think it really starts with genuinely not caring if the other person is interested or not. And then acting accordingly. Essentially the opposite of what your whole thread has been about. You wouldn’t even need to create a thread because you wouldn’t care one way or another. One of the main benefits of a casual fwb is the lack of mental space it takes up. Let’s you focus on the things that are important to you. It’s often why people choose not to get into relationships in the first place. They’re focused on other things and don’t have the time to spend on cultivating a relationship. You’ve spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about this guy. 

I see your point, but I think that is an idealised version of casual relationships, and not how people actually work. I don't think there is anyone on this planet who truly doesn't care at all if someone they're interested in doesn't correspond. Nobody likes rejection, and depending on how strong your self-esteem is, and how often you get rejected, you may shrug it off more or less easily.

If there is a guy that I enjoyed my time with more than others, and he doesn't feel the same way, it's still going to sting even if I didn't want a relationship. I don't think there is anything abnormal there.

But when I get rejected I don't cry, become depressed and ear a tub of ice cream, my ego feels a little hurt and it's annoying but that's it.

Regarding how much time I spent on this guy, part of it is that I am on holidays at the moment so don't have a lot to keep me busy 🤣

The other part is what I said earlier, I overanalyse everything.

[Rider on the Storm]

Guy here .. As many others have echoed, you seem interested in more with him than just no strings attached sex. And if you are, there is nothing wrong with that. It just seems like you are trying to convince us (as well as yourself) that you aren't interested in more.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm doubtful that he would have contacted you had you not reached out to him. I base this on some of the comments that he made to you as you were both parting ways and his age. Guys will say things pre and post sex. I wouldn't treat what is said as gospel no matter how "real" it may seem.

I think paying or financially contributing to his visit is a bad look. If he's truly interested, he should be able to finance a 3 hour flight on his own.

I do wish you luck.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Rider on the Storm

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

How would a woman behave so to a man's eyes she is only looking for something casual?

By letting him initiate and show his own interest, and not by offering to help fund his trip. He can and should pay his own way, especially when you hardly know the guy. 

Everything you're doing here says the very opposite of "I just want casual." Even though you say you don't want more, that is not at all how you're presenting yourself.  

[Starrybeach]

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

By letting him initiate and show his own interest, and not by offering to help fund his trip. He can and should pay his own way, especially when you hardly know the guy. 

Everything you're doing here says the very opposite of "I just want casual." Even though you say you don't want more, that is not at all how you're presenting yourself.  

So according to this, a woman who is only interested in a casual FWB relationship can never take initiative or she will be seen as wanting more than just sex?

I don't believe that's true and frankly, it feels like an outdated point of view, don't you agree? Is this how most men feel?

If I was interested in a long term relationship, I agree that it is best to let the man do the courting, but in this situation, it is more about having a balance. Both the man and the woman can take turns in the initiative and only when the initiative is always coming from the woman could you say she's coming accross as needy.

In this case, the initiative came from him all of the time except the morning after we met and when I contacted him four days later.

[ExpatInItaly]

11 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

So according to this, a woman who is only interested in a casual FWB relationship can never take initiative or she will be seen as wanting more than just sex?

I don't believe that's true and frankly, it feels like an outdated point of view, don't you agree? Is this how most men feel?

No, I don't agree, because that is neither what Isaid nor what I meant.  And I a woman too, for what it's worth. 

To clarify: I think him telling pretty clearly you wouldn't be hearing from him (but just that he would reply to you) and you reaching out anyway and offering to fund even part of this trip, is what makes it look like you aren't taking this very casually. You asked which behaviours might have misrepresented your intent here. In my opinion, this is it.  

I think there is nothing wrong with a woman taking initiative if she wants a FWB. I have done so myself. But would I do so for a guy who basically brushed me off on our last hook-up, and would I help finance that? Not a chance.

 

[Starrybeach]

55 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

No, I don't agree, because that is neither what Isaid nor what I meant.  And I a woman too, for what it's worth. 

To clarify: I think him telling pretty clearly you wouldn't be hearing from him (but just that he would reply to you) and you reaching out anyway and offering to fund even part of this trip, is what makes it look like you aren't taking this very casually. You asked which behaviours might have misrepresented your intent here. In my opinion, this is it.  

I think there is nothing wrong with a woman taking initiative if she wants a FWB. I have done so myself. But would I do so for a guy who basically brushed me off on our last hook-up, and would I help finance that? Not a chance.

 

Ah, thanks for clarifying, I am glad we are on the same page. Also, sorry, I didn't mean you were a man, I was just asking in general if that's how men see women.

Now I think I know what the issue seems to be. We disagree on what the last interaction meant and how much interest he had.

The prevailing theme of our whole week together is that he liked me (a lot), he was very interested in seeing me again, he would definitely contact me if he ever comes to my city, but as a FWB relationship only, it wouldn't make sense to keep in regular contact since we will not be able to meet. And I agreed.

If I had been looking for an actual relationship, I agree that him not taking the initiative and doing everything he can to come see me would have been a red flag.

But he is not in love with me, nor I with him. We just had fun and a good connection. The fact that he is sincerely interested in seeing me again and the only issue is money has been confirmed. So it is my choice if I want to help him financially to come visit me. I don't think that means I want more than a FWB. Other people may not make the same choice, and would only want to see him again if he is the one making all the effort despite it being just a hookup, but that is down to personal preference.

Also, some of you are making the assumption that he could easily afford it and choses not to, but I that is truly not the case. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Starrybeach

[ExpatInItaly]

I believe him if he says he can't really afford the trip.

36 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

So it is my choice if I want to help him financially to come visit me. I don't think that means I want more than a FWB.

Yes, and that's fine if you choose to. But you did also ask us which behaviour could make it seem like your intent was more than FWB, and at least in my opinion, offering to pay for a guy you hardly know does not give the impression this is strictly casual for you. Your personal intent and outsider perception are not the same thing. That's all. 

There's nothing wrong with having your fun with this if you want. Just remember to be honest with yourself about what you want here. Your thread did start by asking if you should pursue a relationship with him, and now it's changed course into wanting just FWB, so my only caution is to make sure you're not playing mental gymnastics with yourself. That is where you stand to get hurt if this goes sour.

Edited August 25, 2022 by ExpatInItaly

[Weezy1973]

OP, you’re specifically asking what are the things that could make you appear needy, people are telling you, and then you’re arguing with them. Fearing rejection from a casual FWB = needy. Paying for a casual FWB to come to your country for sex = needy. Contacting him first post vacation, after he explicitly said it would be hard to carry on being FWB long distance = needy. Caring whether or not he likes you = needy. Even describing your last sexual encounter together as “beautiful” = needy. You both have other FWB right? Why so much effort for this guy? Were you the same with your other FWBs? 

[stillafool]

On 8/22/2022 at 8:06 PM, Starrybeach said:

(the hugging, kissing and staring at each other's eyes, not just the sex)

This is all part of sex or what leads to it.  This isn't the look of love.  You're trying to make something emotional out of a hook up and reading more into his actions and words than he meant.  What you guys have is a hook up situation, not a FWB.  FWB usually see each other when on call for sex and don't travel long distance.  One would hardly ever get laid waiting for someone who lives out of town.  I don't think you're cut out for what you call casual because of your actions and words say differently.

[poppyfields]

Hello @Starrybeachnot sure if you're still reading but if you are, I think I understand where you're coming from here.  

Casual versus wanting a "relationship." It could be argued that if you were looking for a relationship, you would not have reached out first and would not have offered to fund his trip. 

Wanting a relationship suggests certain feelings are involved and reaching out first, offering to pay would be much too risky, emotionally imo. 

When we have genuine romantic  feelings such that we want a relationship, we are more cautious, more prudent, more self-protective.

Typically.  There are always exceptions but I'm not sensing that here, that you want more than casual, at least not right now. 

Validation?  Yes I do believe you're seeking validation, but not a "relationship," I could be wrong.

You're up for some fun, some great sex, so you took the initiative, offered to help him fund the trip; my sense (and what you've posted) is your attitude is what the heck, if he accepts, great, if he declines, so be, move on.  You have nothing to lose. 

Again typically in my experience a woman invested in wanting a relationship would not be so bold, again too risky, she's self-protective and under the same circumstances, would wait for the man to initiate. 

Your bold, take or leave attitude suggests a woman wanting casual as you've been asserting.  I get it. 

Just my take, good luck and have fun..