[UPDATE] FWB isn't reaching out to me

[Starrybeach]

19 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Hello @Starrybeachnot sure if you're still reading but if you are, I think I understand where you're coming from here.  

Casual versus wanting a "relationship." It could be argued that if you were looking for a relationship, you would not have reached out first and would not have offered to fund his trip. 

Wanting a relationship suggests certain feelings are involved and reaching out first, offering to pay would be much too risky, emotionally imo. 

When we have genuine romantic  feelings such that we want a relationship, we are more cautious, more prudent, more self-protective.

Typically.  There are always exceptions but I'm not sensing that here, that you want more than casual, at least not right now. 

Validation?  Yes I do believe you're seeking validation, but not a "relationship," I could be wrong.

You're up for some fun, some great sex, so you took the initiative, offered to help him fund the trip; my sense (and what you've posted) is your attitude is what the heck, if he accepts, great, if he declines, so be, move on.  You have nothing to lose. 

Again typically in my experience a woman invested in wanting a relationship would not be so bold, again too risky, she's self-protective and under the same circumstances, would wait for the man to initiate. 

Your bold, take or leave attitude suggests a woman wanting casual as you've been asserting.  I get it. 

Just my take, good luck and have fun..

 

 

Thank you poppy, you get me. What comes accross as "needyness" is the fact that I think I do, to some extent, also look for a bit of validation in addition to some fun. But I am not in the least looking for a romantic relationship.

The part of me that needs validation is the one that doesn't like to be rejected, and feels good when he says he likes me. I guess I can work on that but on the other hand we all need some validation, I don't think I'll ever not care at all about being rejected.

[Starrybeach]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:33 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

I believe him if he says he can't really afford the trip.

Yes, and that's fine if you choose to. But you did also ask us which behaviour could make it seem like your intent was more than FWB, and at least in my opinion, offering to pay for a guy you hardly know does not give the impression this is strictly casual for you. Your personal intent and outsider perception are not the same thing. That's all. 

There's nothing wrong with having your fun with this if you want. Just remember to be honest with yourself about what you want here. Your thread did start by asking if you should pursue a relationship with him, and now it's changed course into wanting just FWB, so my only caution is to make sure you're not playing mental gymnastics with yourself. That is where you stand to get hurt if this goes sour.

Thanks for your advice, I have continued to do some self-analysis and I think I am being honest with myself.

Offering to help him financially seems to divide people's opinions on this forum, some feel it is fine and something a woman who just wants casual can do if she chooses to, while others think it is needy/means I want more of a relationship.

In my case, it's more the former and as for wanting more, I would only want a FWB as defined in an earlier post, no more than that.

Regarding your last point, even at the OP I said I don't want a relationship, I have not changed my opinion along the way.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Starrybeach

[Starrybeach]

On 8/25/2022 at 3:28 PM, Weezy1973 said:

OP, you’re specifically asking what are the things that could make you appear needy, people are telling you, and then you’re arguing with them. Fearing rejection from a casual FWB = needy. Paying for a casual FWB to come to your country for sex = needy. Contacting him first post vacation, after he explicitly said it would be hard to carry on being FWB long distance = needy. Caring whether or not he likes you = needy. Even describing your last sexual encounter together as “beautiful” = needy. You both have other FWB right? Why so much effort for this guy? Were you the same with your other FWBs? 

Thanks for your opinion, weezy, it is helpful although it does seem that anything that shows I would like to see him again is seen as needy.

Before, I would have thought that needy is a woman who would like regular/daily contact, who needs to be told she's beautiful/liked frequently, who wants assurances that the guy will stay with her forever...

Regarding if I'm the same with other FWB, I would say yes. As I said in an earlier response, I over-analyse many of my interactions, not just with men, but with friends and family...

[Starrybeach]

On 8/25/2022 at 4:33 PM, stillafool said:

This is all part of sex or what leads to it.  This isn't the look of love.  You're trying to make something emotional out of a hook up and reading more into his actions and words than he meant.  What you guys have is a hook up situation, not a FWB.  FWB usually see each other when on call for sex and don't travel long distance.  One would hardly ever get laid waiting for someone who lives out of town.  I don't think you're cut out for what you call casual because of your actions and words say differently.

Who talked about love 🤣

Yes, I know we don't have a FWB situation because we live far away, but it doesn't mean we cannot occasionally see each other again.

Whether I'm cut out for it or not is a different story, so far I'm doing fine, other than a bit of overthinking.

[ExpatInItaly]

17 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

Regarding your last point, even at the OP I said I don't want a relationship, I have not changed my opinion along the way.

I am referring to the original title of this thread, which is why I think some were confused. 

Regardless, have fun with it and check in with yourself from time to time and see if it's right for you. When is he due to visit? 

[BrinnM]

29 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

The part of me that needs validation is the one that doesn't like to be rejected, and feels good when he says he likes me. I guess I can work on that but on the other hand we all need some validation, I don't think I'll ever not care at all about being rejected.

OK but offering financial help to support his travel defeats this purpose, IMO.
Moreover, it will also feel “needy” to him, which is also something you want to avoid, if I understand your posts correctly. If you really pay for (part of his) travel, you will look desperate to him. You do understand this, right?

[Wiseman2]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:43 PM, Starrybeach said:

He also made a joke about how difficult it would be to have a long distance FWB relationship.

This was the only confusing part as far as fling vs relationship goes.

[Starrybeach]

9 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I am referring to the original title of this thread, which is why I think some were confused. 

Regardless, have fun with it and check in with yourself from time to time and see if it's right for you. When is he due to visit? 

Omg, yes, I should have put more thought on the title. [references removed content]

For me, a FWB is one type or relationship, but people seem to reserve the word relationship for boyfriend/girlfriend, marriage or other committed exclusive romantic relationships.

Regarding this guy, he hasn't set a date yet. He assures me he will come to visit as soon as he has a chance but right now his life is crazy. I guess I can only take his word for it and time will tell.

Edited August 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stillafool]

On 8/24/2022 at 4:33 AM, Starrybeach said:

I have a date with another guy this Sunday, 

How did your date go with this guy or did you go yet?  Perhaps he will take your mind off this other guy for a while.

[poppyfields]

7 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

What comes accross as "needyness" is the fact that I think I do, to some extent, also look for a bit of validation in addition to some fun. But I am not in the least looking for a romantic relationship.

I totally get this^ and may be part of the confusion here.

Needing validation is precisely why it's important that he responds and accepts.   You can need that validation while still only wanting casual.  

It may appear as if you want more, like a "relationship", the behavior might be the same or similar but they are two entirely different things. 

That need for validation, especially sexually, can be a powerful drive for some women (and men) causing them to make some very unwise choices.  

It can even lead to sex addiction in some cases.  I've seen it especially in men but women too.  

Not suggesting this is true for you, only that the need for validation can be a strong force and motivator, however, as long as you remain grounded and are able to accept the outcome either way, it's all good imo.

From reading your posts, you seem quite self-aware so my advice is go for it if it's something you want, stay true to yourself, always. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by poppyfields

[Starrybeach]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

How did your date go with this guy or did you go yet?  Perhaps he will take your mind off this other guy for a while.

Unfortunately I had to cancel it, as I woke up with a sore throat and low grade fever. Quite annoying!

However, my mind is really not so much on this guy anymore. I feel quite satisfied knowing that the meant everything and we wants to visit me. I guess that was all the validation I needed...

Edited August 28, 2022 by Starrybeach

[stillafool]

11 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

Unfortunately I had to cancel it, as I woke up with a sore throat and low grade fever. Quite annoying!

However, my mind is really not so much on this guy anymore. I feel quite satisfied knowing that the meant everything and we wants to visit me. I guess that was all the validation I needed...

Sorry you feel sick.  Hopefullly you can reschedule when you feel better.  Glad you feel satisfied with the other guy.

[Starrybeach]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I totally get this^ and may be part of the confusion here.

Needing validation is precisely why it's important that he responds and accepts.   You can need that validation while still only wanting casual.  

It may appear as if you want more, like a "relationship", the behavior might be the same or similar but they are two entirely different things. 

That need for validation, especially sexually, can be a powerful drive for some women (and men) causing them to make some very unwise choices.  

It can even lead to sex addiction in some cases.  I've seen it especially in men but women too.  

Not suggesting this is true for you, only that the need for validation can be a strong force and motivator, however, as long as you remain grounded and are able to accept the outcome either way, it's all good imo.

From reading your posts, you seem quite self-aware so my advice is go for it if it's something you want, stay true to yourself, always. 

Thank you Poppy for putting it so clearly.

And thanks for the word of warning on how the need for validation could lead to unwise choices, I will keep am eye on that!

[Lisa]

This thread has had a clean up of uncivil and off topic commentary.   It will now remain under observation and any further posts of this kind will be removed.

[Starrybeach]

VERY LONG POST WARNING! Thanks for reading. Summary at the end.

Please be kind [ ] 

 A few facts about me:

- I do not believe in monogamy or true love (but respect those who do)

- I am not looking for a relationship or commitment (too focused on my career at the moment)

- I prefer to have several FWB that cover different needs

- I understand a FWB as a casual relationship where there is a friendship component, with mutual respect and caring about the other as a person, but without committment (i.e. NOT a sex buddy)

- I have several other FWB where I live, but I am invested in this long distance FWB because the chemistry is really great. However, I will definitely cut it off if it becomes clear that it brings me more grief than fun and I am close to that point now.

You can read my previous thread if you want the full story. www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/607138-update-i-contacted-him-and-he-replied-15-minutes-later-so-i-was-clearly-overthinking-things/

To summarize, I [32F] had an intense summer fling with a younger guy [25M]. We have stayed in contact by text, over two months now.

There is great chemistry, strong physical attraction, and he said he liked me. I invited him to come to visit me and even help cover part of the cost and he said he would come as soon as he had time. However, since then, he has been displaying "hot and cold" behaviour.

Summary of the last two months:

- On our last night together, he told me he would not contact me but I could and he would reply. Since then, I have initiated contact around 85% of the time. He nearly always replies as soon as he sees my message.

- Early on, I contacted him two days on a row and he told me that he is busy and I "shouldn't push for texting all the time" (which I wasn't). Since then, I have only tried to contact him once or twice a week.

- Sometimes he only gives me quick one-word replies as if he isn't interested in texting, so I cut the conversation short.

- Other times, we will text for a couple of hours; a lot of sexting but conversations as well. There is still a lot of chemistry.

- Because of the very limited amount of contact we had, I was not able to find out much about his life. I know that he is a surfer, and he's pretty much addicted to it (like "his life is given up to this sport").

- He told me that he would never be able to be in an exclusive relationship. He has mentioned having a sex buddy and also a "friend" that was visiting him.

- Two weeks ago, I was ready to call it quits and I point blank asked him if he wanted us to stop texting because he seemed to be losing interest. He said he wanted to keep on texting but he had a lot going on so perhaps I should text less often (!). He agreed to try to chat every Wednesday, but without it being set in stone. I also told him that if I text him and it's not a good moment for him, he can just tell me, he won't hurt my feelings.

- Last Wednesday he didn't contact me. I waited but eventually wrote to him. It turned out he had terrible flu. I contacted him the next day to see how he was feeling and he was still feeling horribly. That evening he sent me the most adorable photo of himself. The day after, I asked him how he was feeling, and he just replied "too much" (as in: I was texting him too often). It was rude but funnily, it didn't bother me; I appreciated that he was doing what I asked instead of leaving me on read.

- After that, I made my mind up not to initiate contact for at least two weeks. Yesterday (Wednesday) he didn't contact me and neither did I.

- Last time I asked if he was still planning to visit me, he said "someday" (this was a change, before he was definitely coming when he had time)

The reason I am writing this post is that two days ago I just couldn't stand all the mystery anymore, and I tracked him on social media. [Yes, I am aware this means I am starting to obsess about him and that's why I am asking for advice on how to move forward]

Surprise! It turns out that, from the few pictures of him I have found, there is a strong possiblity that he has a girlfriend, despite what he told me.

This would explain his odd behaviour, because when he doesn't seem to be interested in texting he goes in and out of the chat giving me as short a reply as possible, which is what someone would do if they are worried they will get caught. It would also explain why he can't visit me.

However, it doesn't entirely match all the information I have, it could still be that they are only friends (with or without benefits).

So the other possibility is that he is a committment-phobe and he worries that frequent texting is too close to having a relationship. He is a true free spirit, living the surfer life, and he doesn't even commit to a place to live for very long, moving to where the surfing is good.

How to move foward from this point? I would be happy with once/twice a week contact, but without all the guesswork and ambiguity. Basically, I need to understand his situation.

My plan is to wait about two weeks and see if he contacts me. Should I just directly ask him if he has a girlfriend? If that's not the case, how do I address his inconsistent interest? 

TL;DR: I am in a two month long distance FWB relationship. He is clearly into me but acts hot and cold and tells me to text less often. He either has a girlfriend he's not told me about, or he is a free-spirited committment-phobe who only cares about surfing. How do I address this with him?

Edited October 22, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
gatekeeping

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

I [32F] had an intense summer fling with a younger guy [25M]. We have stayed in contact by text, over two months now.

Unfortunately he seems pretty clear that he is with others. You as well claim you're not seeking out a committed relationship, so that part works put. The issue seems to be too much texting, since he is backing away from that. It seems he saw this as a summer fling and now simply has continued his if as before.

[Starrybeach]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately he seems pretty clear that he is with others. You as well claim you're not seeking out a committed relationship, so that part works put. The issue seems to be too much texting, since he is backing away from that. It seems he saw this as a summer fling and now simply has continued his if as before.

Thanks for your reply wiseman. I am not sure I understand, though. He is with others and so am I. But the question is whether he's actually in a committed, exclusive relationship and hasn't told me. And how to address this.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Starrybeach

[stillafool]

I think he has a girl that he really likes, whether they are in a commited relationship yet or he's trying to get her remains to be seen but he definitely has someone he's interested in.  That doesn't matter to you since you aren't looking for a commited relationship and only a FWB in the form of  (someone to have sex with and repectful friendly conversations) casual.  Except he doesn't seem to be up for too much conversation with you because he thinks you text too much.  If you want to keep him around I suggest you only answer him when he texts you first to talk.  Other than that leave him alone because he's probably involved or trying to get involved with a surfer chick.

[Starrybeach]

51 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I think he has a girl that he really likes, whether they are in a commited relationship yet or he's trying to get her remains to be seen but he definitely has someone he's interested in.  That doesn't matter to you since you aren't looking for a commited relationship and only a FWB in the form of  (someone to have sex with and repectful friendly conversations) casual.  Except he doesn't seem to be up for too much conversation with you because he thinks you text too much.  If you want to keep him around I suggest you only answer him when he texts you first to talk.  Other than that leave him alone because he's probably involved or trying to get involved with a surfer chick.

Thanks for your insight, stillafool. He would already be involved since some of the photos I found are from before I met him. So you agree that the most likely scenario is this one, rather than him being a total commitment-phobe, right?

I am happy with waiting for him to contact, except he said he wouldn't contact me. In two months, he has only initiated contact 2-3 times. 😆 Maybe he feels less guilty that way?

And do you not think I should address this with him next time we chat?

Edited October 20, 2022 by Starrybeach

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Starrybeach said:

 whether he's actually in a committed, exclusive relationship and hasn't told me. And how to address this.

Unfortunately there is no way to address it because it comes off as too 'relationshipy', which neither of you agreed to. If you believe he is cheating on a local woman by texting you and want no part of that, simply step back.

[Starrybeach]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately there is no way to address it because it comes off as too 'relationshipy', which neither of you agreed to. If you believe he is cheating on a local woman by texting you and want no part of that, simply step back.

I see your point. If I believe what he has told me so far, he only has a "friend" and it's not exclusive.

He has been very open, generally, and everything he's told me regarding other aspects of his life was true.

We just haven't had enough conversations to talk in detail about his relationship status yet. So I don't feel it is out of the question for me to ask him if he has a girlfriend, it wouldn't feel to "relationshipy" if I ask when it feels natural in the conversation, as opposed to "having a talk"

[stillafool]

41 minutes ago, Starrybeach said:

Thanks for your insight, stillafool. He would already be involved since some of the photos I found are from before I met him. So you agree that the most likely scenario is this one, rather than him being a total commitment-phobe, right?

I am happy with waiting for him to contact, except he said he wouldn't contact me. In two months, he has only initiated contact 2-3 times. 😆 Maybe he feels less guilty that way?

And do you not think I should address this with him next time we chat?

Why did he say he wouldn't contact you?  I would think that a Surfer could care less about texting.  The ocean offers so much more.  I doubt he's in a commited relationship or he wouldn't be having sex with you.  I feel like he likes a girl who has similar interest that he may be trying to make his girlfriend.  Yes, I think you should ask him if he's seeing other people.  Since you have sex with him you have a right to know.

Edited October 20, 2022 by stillafool

[Starrybeach]

24 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Why did he say he wouldn't contact you?  I would think that a Surfer could care less about texting.  The ocean offers so much more.  I doubt he's in a commited relationship or he wouldn't be having sex with you.  I feel like he likes a girl who has similar interest that he may be trying to make his girlfriend.  Yes, I think you should ask him if he's seeing other people.  Since you have sex with him you have a right to know.

When we last saw each other in person, he said he wouldn't contact me to ask "how are you doing" and he doesn't do this with any of his friends either; he only chats when they are going to meet or for a specific reason. But that I could contact him and he would reply.

And pretty much that's what has happened, except that sometimes when I have contacted him he replied but seemed uninterested. And if I text him two days in a row then it's "too much". 

He hasn't explained more, other than that "there is a lot going around here lately" and he's "barely having time"

If he's in a relationship with this girl, believe me, it's from before he met me. That's clear from the photos.

So I feel he's putting me in a very tricky situation. I can feel he really likes me. He nearly always replies to me straight away (a sign of interest). He has told me he doesn't want to stop texting and he will visit me (when he can/someday). But he rarely initiates contact and is busy half the times that I do!

I can wait for him to contact me but I worry it may just fade and I'd rather know what his situation is, get some form of an agreement that works for both of us, or say goodbye.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Starrybeach

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

I am happy with waiting for him to contact, except he said he wouldn't contact me. In two months, he has only initiated contact 2-3 times.

Well then, that tells you how much he is willing to invest and how much he values your “friendship.” 

It seems odd to me that you say you want a casual FWB relationship but then you have the expectation of regular contact. Clearly, he has a different definition of “casual” and “FWB” than you do… He’s likely hoping to hit you up for sex when he comes to town more so than he’s looking for a pen pal. 

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

sometimes when I have contacted him he replied but seemed uninterested. And if I text him two days in a row then it's "too much". 

Well yeah, he told you that he didn’t want to talk to you except to arrange a meeting - 
 

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

When we last saw each other in person, he said he wouldn't contact me to ask "how are you doing" and he doesn't do this with any of his friends either; he only chats when they are going to meet or for a specific reason.

 

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

I feel he's putting me in a very tricky situation.

It’s more like you are putting yourself in a very tricky situation by trying to communicate and build a relationship with a man who has told you - he’s not really interested. 
 

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

I can feel he really likes me.

Men who really like a woman don’t tend to take a - I won’t call you, but I will respond if you text me (but please, not more than two days in a row) approach…
 

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

He has told me he will visit me (when he can/someday).

Again, not really that interested… when I can, I will come and have sex with you. 

 

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

I can wait for him to contact me but I worry it may just fade and I'd rather know what his situation is

It’a likely to fade - he’s not investing. He has been pretty clear with his intention, you just don’t want to accept it…
 

4 hours ago, Starrybeach said:

get some form of an agreement that works for both of us, or say goodbye.

Again, he’s told you and demonstrated to you what he is willing to offer. Accept it, or move on.