Is my friend trouble?

[LuckyxGuapa]

Hi everyone,

I don’t post on here often, but just after some advice really from someone impartial.

 

This is probably going to be a really really long post so I do apologise!

 

At the end of last year, I helped a friend of mine get a job within the company that I work for, and in the same department as me.

I really enjoy where I work. I like my job and I like my work colleagues. Everyone has a grumble about their job sometimes, but overall, I am mostly happy there. 

I helped my friend with his interview, assessments and did all his training after he started . I was even on hand to answer his questions during my annual leave.

Within the first few weeks of starting, I found my friend to be quite disrespectful towards me.  If I asked him to help me with something or “would you mind picking up such and such?” I would get snarky replies or just ignored but if another colleague would ask him, he would say “yes of course!!”.

On other occasions, If I had noticed a mistake he had made with something, I would try and help him and would just be ignored, whereas again, another colleague would tell him the same thing, and get an overly nice reply. My friend would constantly ask me questions as to why we do things a certain way and when I would answer, he would scoff and say “that’s ridiculous” and then moan and rant about the company, his job and the process in which we do things.

3 months in and I had become quite exhausted with it, almost to the point of regretting mentioning the job vacancy within my team. He is very selective over who hears his moaning and it is often chunnering under his breath. He bangs his mouse around in temper and sometimes gives the middle finger to the computer, if he has received an email he doesn’t like. I started to find it all a little bit uncomfortable. 

After reflection, I decided to drop my manager an email and ask her if she had any advice? She called me in for an informal chat. 

A few months passed and I thought things had settled down but sadly not. I asked my friend one day to help me sort through the post as I had quite a lot on, and he snapped back “yeah, in a minute!!” And then proceeded to read the dailymail for 40 minutes as he had no work of his own to do.

Later on in the day, my manager noticed that something was amiss and called us both into a meeting. My friend completely tried to throw me under the bus and told absolute lies about how he didn’t want to help me with the post as I had sat doing nothing all day. This was a blatant lie and my manager rightly told him that as we do separate jobs, with all due respect, he doesn’t know what I do and don’t do with my day, so basically not to pass comment.

I was furious, and after my friend left the meeting room, I burst into tears because I just didn’t understand what I had done that was so wrong, for my so called friend to be behaving in this way towards me.

I was then off on annual leave and I also had covid, so I was away from the office for a while.

After I returned, the dust had settled some what and my friend and I began talking a little and after a week or so, it had blown over.

However, the continuous moaning still continued on. The slamming of the desk, the two fingers to the computer, the huffing and puffing and chunnering under his breath. Moaning at being asked to do little things. 

My work from home days changed and luckily, I then only had to work with him one day a week, but I started to find it a bit uncomfortable, once again.

Other colleagues have picked up on his mood, moaning and general negativity but again, he is selective of what people see and hear, so to be honest, they don’t really see or hear the half of what goes on.

He also slumps in his chair, to the point he is practically lay down! and got called into his own meeting a few weeks ago for falling asleep at his desk in the middle of the day!

However, last week, we yet again had trouble. IT had made some changes to the way that we work and obviously my friend was not happy with this. Within an hour of being together (during the only day we are both in the office at the same time), the moaning had become too much and I tried to make a joke (maybe in poor taste) and I said “do you know what I love about you? Your positivity!”

It was a joke, everyone laughed. My friend came back with a snarky, bitter reply of “says you!?”. It was no longer a light hearted joke, my mood changed and my friend said that with nastiness and bitterness in his voice. 

I said “I don’t moan?” And he said “no…just about absolutely everything”. 

What started as a joke, had now taken a turn. There was nastiness in his voice, bitterness almost, maybe some resentment. 

My friend sulked with me with the rest of the day, almost turning her back towards me. I sit at the end of a row, and so felt quite isolated. I felt upset for the rest of the day.

I’ve had a rubbish couple of years. We had 3 deaths in the family and my mum went through treatment for breast cancer. I also have my own health issues and need surgery myself in the coming months. 

It came across as if my friend resents me having a moan sometimes about the issues in my life or the rubbish things that have happened. My argument is that these are real life problems, whereas his moans and grumbles are about a computer and teaspoons in a sink. Very trivial things. 

He’s very lucky in that he has never really had any issues with his health and his parents, to say they are in their 70’s, are perfectly fit and healthy. He’s never experienced any trauma. He lives a very charmed life. 

That night after I got home from work, I thought to myself, I can’t have an atmosphere within my department that happened last time over “postgate”, so I sent him a message to try and smooth things over. 

It became clear that there are some underlying issues and built up resentment, as my friend replied and blamed me for everything.

He said that me mentioning about his moaning had come out of the blue. 

I said that it had gone on for a long long time, and that a few months into him starting, it got that bad that I had to broach my manager for advice over how to handle it.

Well, he did not take kindly to this! 

He says I’m disgusting for doing that and it’s unforgivable. He said “I would never have done that to you!!” . He then finished the message with “you exhaust me. I don’t want to know you anymore” 

I was then blocked. 

He has removed himself from any WhatsApp groups we were in (not the work ones though, he wouldn’t want anyone else to see him over reacting!). 

I was also unfriended and blocked on fb.

I went in work the next day and called a meeting with my manager to let her know what had happened, and that my friend will likely no longer want to work with me as he “does not want to know me anymore”. 

What I didn’t get chance to explain to my friend was, I emailed my manager that day for advice, as his attitude and behaviour was getting me down and I didn’t know what else to do or how to handle it. I thought it was the best solution and kindest thing to do. My friend is not approachable, otherwise, I would have just spoken to him myself. 

I’ve never been in that meeting room as many times as I have since my friend started. I brought him into my workplace It’s just been non stop trouble and embarrassment for me.

He’s saying “I’m exhausting”, but does he not realise that this is exhausting for me also?

There is no accountability with him. I’ve known him for 17 years and not ever once has he admitted to being in the wrong or ever even apologised to me. 

Can I also just point out that I’m 34 and my friend is 39. It’s just stupid behaviour. Instead of shouting at me that it’s “unforgiveable” that I asked my manager for advice on how to handle him, why not take responsibility for your actions and behaviour that lead to me having to do that?.

I sit wondering what I’ve done that’s so terrible to him for him to behave this way with me.

I’ve only ever tried my hardest to help my friend. Help him with his work, help him not make mistakes, help him not get in trouble, help him settle in to a new job and new environment, and I’ve had nothing but grief and upset from him.

SO, the problem I have now is…. What do I do? I’m tempted to move departments for the sake of my own mental health, but at the same time, I think, why should I? I’ve worked for this company and in this department for 4 years and I enjoy it. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post/rant! 

Hopefully someone has some advice?

Thanks x

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, LuckyxGuapa said:

I’m tempted to move departments for the sake of my own mental health, but at the same time, I think, why should I? I’ve worked for this company and in this department for 4 years and I enjoy it. 

You did the right thing stepping back and blocking him on social media and messaging apps. Unfortunately you overextended yourself and he seems ungrateful, so just enjoy your job and don't be accountable for him. Make sure there wasn't isn't any romantic vibe here. This was way too much and way too close for any sort of "friend" or coworker.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Wiseman2

[LuckyxGuapa]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

You did the right thing stepping back and blocking him on social media and messaging apps. Unfortunately you overextended yourself and he seems ungrateful, so just enjoy your job and don't be accountable for him.

Oh no, he blocked me, not the other way round x

[glows]

Learn to detach yourself at work. You’re not at work with your friend. You’re at work with a coworker. You do not have to help him if that help is unsolicited. You’re also expecting him to help you and he doesn’t want to. He’s not obligated to help you at all just because you think you’re helping him. He may think you’re meddling and making the work situation worse. He doesn’t like that you keep complaining about him. Realize also that his work ethic and attitude will be his own downfall. You don’t need to have a hand in that. Ships with holes in them sink on their own.

Cool off and distance yourself. If you need help with your tasks go to your manager or prioritize those tasks better. It’s inappropriate to bring personal issues into work. I’m very sorry for the loss in your family. Grief counselling helps. Seek counselling and support. Do not depend on coworkers to support you.

It feels embarrassing and hurtful now but don’t react to it and think about it with a clearer head in a few days. Steer clear of this person and focus on your work without involving him or others. If you need direction talk with your manager. 

[LuckyxGuapa]

20 minutes ago, glows said:

Learn to detach yourself at work. You’re not at work with your friend. You’re at work with a coworker. You do not have to help him if that help is unsolicited. You’re also expecting him to help you and he doesn’t want to. He’s not obligated to help you at all just because you think you’re helping him. He may think you’re meddling and making the work situation worse. He doesn’t like that you keep complaining about him. Realize also that his work ethic and attitude will be his own downfall. You don’t need to have a hand in that. Ships with holes in them sink on their own.

Cool off and distance yourself. If you need help with your tasks go to your manager or prioritize those tasks better. It’s inappropriate to bring personal issues into work. I’m very sorry for the loss in your family. Grief counselling helps. Seek counselling and support. Do not depend on coworkers to support you.

It feels embarrassing and hurtful now but don’t react to it and think about it with a clearer head in a few days. Steer clear of this person and focus on your work without involving him or others. If you need direction talk with your manager. 

I’m actually his senior, which is why I ask him to help me with tasks. And when he’s sat there with nothing to do, rightly so. Even though I am above him, we work as a team. 

We don’t have personal issues that are brought into work, we have work issues that have started in work and have been brought outside of work.

[LuckyxGuapa]

1 minute ago, LuckyxGuapa said:

I’m actually his senior, which is why I ask him to help me with tasks. And when he’s sat there with nothing to do, rightly so. Even though I am above him, we work as a team. 

We don’t have personal issues that are brought into work, we have work issues that have started in work and have been brought outside of work.

I also don’t depend on coworkers to support me.

I depend on my friend of 17 years to support me, outside of the office. 
But if he thinks my issues of bereavement and cancer are similar to his issues of a computer and dirty teaspoons in the sink, then so be it. 

[glows]

1 minute ago, LuckyxGuapa said:

I’m actually his senior, which is why I ask him to help me with tasks. And when he’s sat there with nothing to do, rightly so. Even though I am above him, we work as a team. 

We don’t have personal issues that are brought into work, we have work issues that have started in work and have been brought outside of work.

Does he report to you? Are you his manager? If he doesn’t it doesn’t matter who is more senior. Your manager was telling you your behaviour was also inappropriate and needs to stop.

OP, you seem very angry in general and hateful towards this person and he is tired of being a punching bag for you. He may have his own trials but you call yourself a friend and yet don’t have the ability to be a friend either without being harsh and putting him down. 

That’s why I suggested getting counselling for your issues outside of work. Leave him alone in future and don’t nitpick what he does. Like I said, ships with holes will sink on their own. Respect his boundaries also as he wants nothing to do with you. His reaction suggests that he doesn’t think of you as a friend at all.

[LuckyxGuapa]

14 minutes ago, glows said:

Does he report to you? Are you his manager? If he doesn’t it doesn’t matter who is more senior. Your manager was telling you your behaviour was also inappropriate and needs to stop.

OP, you seem very angry in general and hateful towards this person and he is tired of being a punching bag for you. He may have his own trials but you call yourself a friend and yet don’t have the ability to be a friend either without being harsh and putting him down. 

That’s why I suggested getting counselling for your issues outside of work. Leave him alone in future and don’t nitpick what he does. Like I said, ships with holes will sink on their own. Respect his boundaries also as he wants nothing to do with you. His reaction suggests that he doesn’t think of you as a friend at all.

Sorry, in what part of my post was my manager telling me my behaviour was inappropriate and needs to stop?

if you are referring to where I said “my manager called me I got an informal chat”, that wasn’t her having a chat with me saying my behaviour was inappropriate, that was her calling me in to talk about what’s been going on and to give me some advice on how to deal with my friend. 
(maybe don’t try and read between the lines??)

my manager is actually very much on my side.

I am HIS senior, he reports to me. Not “I am senior”.

and no, no anger here. Just upset at the way a friend of the past 17 years have treated me, but I don’t think you understand. thanks for your input though hun x

Edited August 28, 2022 by LuckyxGuapa

[BrinnM]

You basically threw him under the bus by going to your manager behind his back. I can see that he’s annoying you during the workday quite a bit, it’s also disappointing that he’s not more “thankful” to have been recommended for the job (you basically got him the job, right?) - but what he feels is probably a lot of resentment because you “tattled” on him. And if he hates his work and his workplace that much that he can’t stop huffing and puffing about it, he’ll probably quit sooner or later anyway. Could be that he’s uncomfortable “reporting” to you as well, after being friends for a long time. Some people are just weird like that. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by BrinnM

[LuckyxGuapa]

5 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

You basically threw him under the bus by going to your manager behind his back. I can see that he’s annoying you during the workday quite a bit, it’s also disappointing that he’s not more “thankful” to have been recommended for the job (you basically got him the job, right?) - but what he feels is probably a lot of resentment because you “tattled” on him. And if he hates his work and his workplace that much that he can’t stop huffing and puffing about it, he’ll probably quit sooner or later anyway. Could be that he’s uncomfortable “reporting” to you as well, after being friends for a long time. Some people are just weird like that. 

Thanks for your reply.

he probably does feel as though I threw him under the bus, however, it wasn’t meant as anything like that of the sort. 
And given the chance, I would have explained this to him. My friend is not approachable and it was getting me down after 3 months. Having an off the record chat with my manager, I felt, was the kindest thing to do, rather than speak to my friend about it all and have him do and say to me , exactly what he has done.

My manager has since explained all this to him, after calling him into a meeting. I don’t know what the outcome of the meeting was, but my manager told me, in her opinion, I am not in the wrong. 

I think the biggest issue is my friend having to deal with me being over him. He is older than me and has had no respect for me or my position within the company from day one. This is where all the trouble has started. You’d think out of anyone you’d have more respect from someone who’s been a life long friend than random colleagues. 
 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

 

You didn't throw your friend underneath the bus. That's wrong--because as a supervisor, at work it's not your job to keep an incompetent and moody friend safe from the oncoming bus in the first place. By signing up to become an employee, the rules change. Your job is NOT to protect your friend from honest workplace feedback. And by taking the job, your friend's duty is to work their butt off to do a good job and to be accountable to feedback from others. 

Anyway, this is a common problem in the workplace and in family-owned business. I once talked to two guys whose parents owned a business. The guys grew up as teenagers working at the business. They were both adamant: they would never as adults get involved in a family business. 

The problem was the confusion between family-mom as employer-mom--similar to your problem between you and your friend/coworker.  When mom called on them to do a task for the business, it wasn't clear if family-mom was asking or employer-mom.  While the guys might have felt OK saying "no" to any other employer, it was much harder to say "no" to their mom.  Same thing with workplace feedback? Who's talking: mom the employer or mom the mom? And what if mom and dad weren't organized and didn't plan ahead. These guys said their mom would use family-mom guilt (or dad guilt) to get them to work to cover for the bad planning of employer-mom.

You were naive. You'll learn from this. Your friend is a terrible employee. You just naively missed that possibility when you were helping him get hired and when you agreed to train him. It's not your job to cover for him in the workplace--not at all. 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Lotsgoingon

[ShyViolet]

Why on earth are you still calling this person your "friend"?  He's not your friend.  You really need better boundaries. I understand that you've known him a long time, but it sounds like there's no friendship whatsoever left here.  So have enough self-respect to end friendships with someone when they are nasty and unkind to you.  Now, you can't exactly cut him out of your life because you work with him now.  So stop calling him your "friend" and treat him exactly like what he is.... a problematic co-worker.  Respond to him the same way you would respond to anyone at your job who was a problem employee.  Avoid him and don't talk to him unless you have to.  Document any serious violations of company rules.  Avoid conflict but go through the proper channels if disciplinary action is needed.

[LuckyxGuapa]

4 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Why on earth are you still calling this person your "friend"?  He's not your friend.  You really need better boundaries. I understand that you've known him a long time, but it sounds like there's no friendship whatsoever left here.  So have enough self-respect to end friendships with someone when they are nasty and unkind to you.  Now, you can't exactly cut him out of your life because you work with him now.  So stop calling him your "friend" and treat him exactly like what he is.... a problematic co-worker.  Respond to him the same way you would respond to anyone at your job who was a problem employee.  Avoid him and don't talk to him unless you have to.  Document any serious violations of company rules.  Avoid conflict but go through the proper channels if disciplinary action is needed.

Thankyou.

You are right. He isn’t my friend x

 

[stillafool]

I don't understand, if he reports directly to you and you are his boss why did you continue to go to your manager about him rather than deal with him directly yourself?  Also 

5 hours ago, LuckyxGuapa said:

Quote

Later on in the day, my manager noticed that something was amiss and called us both into a meeting. My friend completely tried to throw me under the bus and told absolute lies about how he didn’t want to help me with the post as I had sat doing nothing all day. This was a blatant lie and my manager rightly told him that as we do separate jobs, with all due respect, he doesn’t know what I do and don’t do with my day, so basically not to pass comment.

I was furious, and after my friend left the meeting room, I burst into tears because I just didn’t understand what I had done that was so wrong, for my so called friend to be behaving in this way towards me.

Why didn't you speak up in the meeting and defend yourself rather than wait until he left the room and then start crying?  If you are his boss you have the power to reprimand him and fire him. You act more like one of his co-workers and my advice would be to just do your work and ignore him if you were.

[LuckyxGuapa]

4 hours ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand, if he reports directly to you and you are his boss why did you continue to go to your manager about him rather than deal with him directly yourself?  Also 

Why didn't you speak up in the meeting and defend yourself rather than wait until he left the room and then start crying?  If you are his boss you have the power to reprimand him and fire him. You act more like one of his co-workers and my advice would be to just do your work and ignore him if you were.

What are you basing this assumption on that I didn’t stand up for myself? I stood up for myself perfectly fine Thankyou. 
 

And as I’ve said multiple times further up, I did not speak to him myself as he is far from approachable. 
 

[ ] 

Edited August 28, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[Lotsgoingon]

So, time for the real question:

Have you accepted that helping your friend get the job was a massive act of self-neglect and self-destruction? 

You want to spend time on constructive people and even then with limits. Great life lesson: you need to protect your time, you need to set boundaries and learn how to say no. 

[Lisa]

This thread has had a clean up of unhelpful, uncivil and assumptive comments.  It is now under observation and any further breaches of civility will be removed.

[basil67]

I'm sorry you're in this situation.  You tried to help a friend and it backfired.  

To be honest, it sounds like your friendship has now passed the point of no return, so it's probably best to mentally say goodbye to that.  It's a shame, but it is what it is.

So taking the personal connection out of the equation, this would then leave him as a problematic staff member who is lazy, refuses to take direction, has an attitude problem which would likely affect morale (thinking of the swearing at his computer here) and is rude to others.  Given that you don't have the authority to terminate his employment, I'd be suggesting you treat him as you would any other person who reports to you and who is causing problems.   With your manager's support, what options are now open to you in terms of managing his behaviour?   Has anyone else in your team been bothered by him?

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by basil67

[LuckyxGuapa]

Hi, thanks for your reply

A few other team members have been bothered by his behaviour, and have mentioned this also to senior management.

He is now being monitored x

[ExpatInItaly]

On 8/28/2022 at 1:46 PM, LuckyxGuapa said:

I’ve only ever tried my hardest to help my friend. Help him with his work, help him not make mistakes, help him not get in trouble, help him settle in to a new job and new environment,

This suggests it's quite a one-sided friendship. 

It appears there is a history of you trying to be there for him and prop him up, and not receiving much consideration in return. Has it always been this way with him, in all the time you have known him? 

Anyway, as others have rightly said, this person is no longer your friend. You need to keep an appropriately-professional distance from him and not have any personal communication with him anymore (beyond what is required at work) He is going to be his own worst enemy now with his behaviour, so let management deal with him from here on out. 

[basil67]

11 hours ago, LuckyxGuapa said:

Hi, thanks for your reply

A few other team members have been bothered by his behaviour, and have mentioned this also to senior management.

He is now being monitored x

That's a really good start - it means that you don't have to try and transfer out because soon enough it will get sorted.

FWIW,  I've been in jobs which are mid level supervisor and it's frustrating having the supervisor name but not having any real powers.  And I don't know if for you, it's like where I am - but we can't just go and fire people.  There needs to be a performance counselling done with managers or HR first.  Getting rid of someone can be quite a lengthy process.  If this is the case, make sure you document everything and keep working with your manager.

I hope you get on top of this soon.  

[LuckyxGuapa]

Thankyou Basil x