I don't know if there is something wrong with me or if I'm just picking the wrong girls, but there seems to be a pattern?

[timble9]

For context I'm currently working as a nurse in a big town. I'm told I'm quite a good looking guy, physically fit, have a great social circle at the moment and because of the nature of my work, most of my friends are female. I moved up to this town after a relationship breakdown and haven't really been looking for anything serious but have had a few hookups here and there. But just then, for the second time I've been friendzoned by a girl I was very interested in for a similar reason as a previous one.

The first girl was about 6 months ago,. We had been friends for a while but there always seemed to be "more" between us. We only ever hung out in a group and were always very touchy, very flirty with one another but she always seemed to hesitate when things would start to escalate and send me mixed signals. Eventually I got frustrated by these mixed signals and made a move, invited her over my house to spend some time alone, she agreed and we had sex. The sex was great, she finished multiple times and said I was the best she's had, but she also admitted that she really didn't expect it to happen and that she had also not had sex with anyone else in a year, but we agreed to meet up again. The next day she sent me a very long message detailing how she has been in a really poor headspace lately and that she didn't think she could handle seeing me and just wanted to be friends. I said that was fine and we just kind of drifted apart.

The next girl was last week and we had known each other through mutual friends for almost a year. The first time we met there was chemistry and I asked her out, she agreed but then proceeded to flake on me several times with very lame excuses so I stopped pursuing her. I didn't see her or hear from her for many months, but over the last 6 weeks had been seeing her regularly at parties we were both at. We would both get very drunk and end up all over each other - lots of touching, flirting etc. but nothing would ever eventuate as we were always in a group and never alone. I had tried to ask her out again a few weeks ago, but she was flaky again. Last weekend we were at a party and ended up in a bedroom together and were quite drunk. She started telling me how she had been flaky with me because she was scared of putting herself out there and getting hurt. One thing lead to another and we started making out. We couldn't have sex because I got whiskey dick and couldn't get it up (  ). I told her that we could make this night about her and went down on her, made her finish multiple times and gave her "the best orgasm she has ever had". She also said that she was surprised she hooked up with me because she had not been with anyone in 8 months, but was keen to get together again. I texted her the next day saying I had a great time with her and asked her what her plans were for the week and she responded with something very similar to the other girls - that her mental health was in a really bad state and that she didn't think it would be fair on me for her to lead me on and that we should just be friends, case closed. 

Now both these girls have enforced the friendzone on me after sex and it's making me feel really down. My self-esteem really isn't great and I can't help but feel like maybe I didn't perform well and that's why they friendzoned me - especially the second one because I got whiskey dick and she admitted she was disappointed that I couldn't have penetrative sex with her. But at the same time, they both admitted that they hadn't been with anyone else in a long time and that their mental health was not in a great state at the moment, it just feels like it's becoming a pattern and an excuse to let me down easy. 

[Calmandfocused]

The problem is your picker! 
 

From what I’m reading you have been going after women who give you mixed signals from the get go. You pursue them until it escalates to sex then it all comes crashing down. 
 

You want the outcome to be different? Stop targeting women who are flaky with their affections in the first place.
 

Date a women who shows clear signs of interest from the start. Take alcohol out of the equation, and go on proper dates. 
 

You may then find that the outcome is different including your sexual experiences. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Calmandfocused said:

The problem is your picker! 
 

From what I’m reading you have been going after women who give you mixed signals from the get go.

I was coming to write the same thing. 

Forget women who are wishy-washy, flake on you, send mixed signals, only want to get together when they're drunk and so on. It doesn't seem there's anything fundamentally wrong with you as a person, but rather that you're barking up the wrong trees with these types. 

1 hour ago, timble9 said:

I can't help but feel like maybe I didn't perform well and that's why they friendzoned me - especially the second one because I got whiskey dick and she admitted she was disappointed that I couldn't have penetrative sex with her.

Woman here, who's encountered this in her day. I can tell it's unlikely they'd write you off complete for something like this - especially if it only happened once. We know how male anatomy works and that it doesn't always cooperate when you've been drinking. If anything, if they were already really into you, they'd probably be happy to give it another go on a sober occasion. So, try not to beat yourself up over that. It's not what caused this to fizzle. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, timble9 said:

We would both get very drunk and end up all over each other. We couldn't have sex because I got whiskey dick and couldn't get it up

Just slow your roll. Date these women rather than getting just drunk and hooking up. 

[stillafool]

Keep in mind a lot of women are multi dating (especially if they are cute) so chances are they are just dating guy after guy but aren't serious yet.  How old are they?  Also when it's all about the sex (which it seems to be), you are involved in hook ups.  If you are looking for a relationship chose better women and don't jump to sex so fast.  Get to know them first.

[timble9]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Just slow your roll. Date these women rather than getting just drunk and hooking up. 

I didn't want to just have sex with the most recent girl, I really wanted to go on a date with her and get to know more about her but she kept flaking on me. Before we had sex she opened up and told me this was because she had gotten out of a relationship at the start of the year and hadn't been with anyone since. She said she had a lot of anxiety/fear/nerves about going out with me because she was afraid of getting hurt. Then she kissed me and one thing lead to another. I followed up by messaging her to say I had a great time and wanted to see her again, thinking this would give her some peace of mind that I wasn't going to hurt her - when she told me she was in a bad headspace and just wanted to be my friend and ended up hurting me instead. Plus, leading up to us hooking up a few of our friends had come up to me and told me she was really into me and jokingly threatened to never forgive me if I hurt her. So it's just very confusing for me 

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, timble9 said:

She said she had a lot of anxiety/fear/nerves about going out with me because she was afraid of getting hurt. Then she kissed me and one thing lead to another.

All of that yet she hooked up with you right away.  Un huh.  I bet she's used that line before.

[glows]

To answer the question in your title, it’s likely a mixture of all those things. These were just two instances only. I agree with the earlier comment about getting to know someone before sex if you’re looking for more. Both situations seemed forced or rushed. 

[poppyfields]

52 minutes ago, timble9 said:

She said she had a lot of anxiety/fear/nerves about going out with me because she was afraid of getting hurt. Then she kissed me and one thing lead to another.

^This particular girl (and perhaps the other as well) admittedly experienced a lot of anxiety and fear about getting involved with you (emotionally); it's possible because of your good looks, great physique, style, etc, she viewed you as some sort of "player boy" who would break her heart.

There are some women who make these types of snap judgments and if you're great in bed, gave her orgasms (the best she's ever had?), then this would add to that perception.

My advice assumimg you want more than sex is stay out of the bedroom for awhile, express an interest in taking them out on dates and getting to know each other first. 

Keep in mind some women sh*t test and will attempt to seduce you, as you said, the last girl was "all over you" when you were both drunk.  And then reject you afterwards claiming you're a player. 

I do know women who have done this.  It’s part game, part needing validation, part fear.  I'm a woman saying this btw.

Best to maintain your resolve and don't allow which I get can be difficult when there is strong attraction (and drunk).

But again I think the way you're approaching it now is leaving them with the wrong impression about you - that you're a "player" and will eventually break their hearts.

Change your approach, go out on dates (again assuming you want more than sex), don't play their game whether it's intentional on their part or not.

Be stronger than that. 

Just my take and something to consider. 

Good luck.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

40 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

My advice assumimg you want more than sex is stay out of the bedroom for awhile, express an interest in taking them out on dates and getting to know each other first. 

Sorry I just read you did this^ with one girl who kept flaking. 

Nothing you can do about flakey people except avoid.

Or if you do end up in bed, take it for what it was, nothing more nothing less.

Don't allow their issues (anxiety, insecurity, fear etc) to become your issues.

Again assuming you want more, seek out and pursue more stable women who don't flake and look within to determine why you're so drawn to the anxious, insecure flakey types. 

It's important that you own your sh*t too. 

You are half of the equation after all. 

PS:  it's often been said to women, don't allow your emotions to steer your ship.

For men, it's don't allow your "thirst" to steer your ship.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

Same advice as most folks. I wouldn’t call this a pattern, as it’s only two people. That being said, hooking up first and then seeing if they want to date after can also play into them thinking you’re a “player”. Instead date them first, and don’t have sex until you know them better and figure out if the two of you are compatible. 

[timble9]

Hey thanks this is something I considered (the player thing) because she said had never experienced an orgasm like she did, that it was obvious I knew what I was doing and had done it before, and there had been rumors going around that I had slept with a few other people recently (these weren't true and I confirmed this with her beforehand). Also seems odd that she would friendzone me because of her mental health and not wanting to lead me on etc.. 

But is this actually a thing? Like I said I have a lot of female friends who constantly talk about how hard it is to find "good sex" and stay with guys who treat them really poorly just because the sex is good, yet with me when I actually treat them right and don't want to kick them to the curb afterwards, it's a turn off? I'm just very confused about all this because I've also been rejected in the past for "not pulling the trigger" with girls who wanted to sleep with me, when I wanted to hold back to get to know them a bit better first. It just seems like I can't win either way.

[stillafool]

Isn't it funny how some women say they don't want to be hurt but then go for a guy they know has slept around and is rumored to be a player?  No wonder you're confused.  Maybe you should start off by telling them you're looking for a relationship, not just sex, and see how that works for you.  Oh the problems of men who are good in bed.

[mark clemson]

Don't worry about being good in bed - clearly you are, at least for these two. So, no need to be insecure about that (and in fact try not to appear too insecure about anything - I know we're all human, but it's "not a good look."  You can save "deep honesty about your feelings/insecurities" for later on when a relationship's been established for a while.) But in both cases it sounds like them "running off" has a LOT more to do with them.

Part of the pattern here seems to be selecting girls from your friend group, who you've known for some time. You are not getting with a new person who sees you primarily as a romantic partner. You are getting with friends, and there's a good chance they've classified you essentially in advance as "a friend they screwed because I was bored/he's kinda cute/I was drunk/I felt like having sex/insert reason here."  It's harder to break the ice (at least it was with me) if you're "starting fresh" but I think this could help reduce the chance of this happening as much.

As noted above, you also seem to be getting with women who "don't know what they want". When you're no longer interested in short term only, don't chase people who are only marginally interested. I think you want to find a woman who knows what she wants, and that thing is you. That should make establishing a LTR much easier.

To that end it sounds like you want to find a NEW woman, start flirting, see that she is responding with enthusiastic interest, and take it from there.

I wouldn't worry too much about being a "player".  Women go for players. Just worry about making sure it's clear you're into them and interested in going LTR once a relationship starts to get established. IF she says "no" at that point, then you had different goals and it was destined to just be a fling.

Edited August 29, 2022 by mark clemson

[Ami1uwant]

39 minutes ago, timble9 said:

Hey thanks this is something I considered (the player thing) because she said had never experienced an orgasm like she did, that it was obvious I knew what I was doing and had done it before, and there had been rumors going around that I had slept with a few other people recently (these weren't true and I confirmed this with her beforehand). Also seems odd that she would friendzone me because of her mental health and not wanting to lead me on etc.. 

But is this actually a thing? Like I said I have a lot of female friends who constantly talk about how hard it is to find "good sex" and stay with guys who treat them really poorly just because the sex is good, yet with me when I actually treat them right and don't want to kick them to the curb afterwards, it's a turn off? I'm just very confused about all this because I've also been rejected in the past for "not pulling the trigger" with girls who wanted to sleep with me, when I wanted to hold back to get to know them a bit better first. It just seems like I can't win either way.

If you are dating fellow nurses thrn they might be checking notes on you. You might have a reputation isdue going on.

[Calmandfocused]

Another theme emerging: 

Irrespective of what she thinks, feels, said etc, one thing is also very evident: 

Shes emotionally unavailable. The last one was too. Let this be a lesson to your picker too. 

Another lesson: Don’t be “the one” that women use to test whether they’ve over their most recent relationship. 

Finally; Please don’t place too much emphasis on the “she opened up” rationale. Excessive alcohol consumption often leads to emotional disinhibition and “opening up” (no pun intended). Means nothing. 
 

 

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, timble9 said:

just very confused about all this because I've also been rejected in the past for "not pulling the trigger" with girls who wanted to sleep with me, when I wanted to hold back to get to know them a bit better first. It just seems like I can't win either way.

The best advice I ever read given to men is stop trying to "win."   Stop thinking in those terms  - win/lose. 

All you need to do is remain true to yourself, true to what you want, your own goals and values, your own inner core as a man, NOT allowing women and what you think they want to steer YOUR ship. 

With the woman who continually flaked?  That's an immediate NEXT.

However, after she flaked (several times?), you allowed your thirst to drive your ship (hot sex which she initiated) versus holding a strong frame, saying no thanks and nexting.

This is again assuming you're seeking a quality relationship versus casual dating/sex.

Bottom line.  Aim higher.  Choose wisely. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by poppyfields

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, timble9 said:

I really wanted to go on a date with her and get to know more about her but she kept flaking on me.

And this is why you should not have bothered with this woman at all. 

It is no surprise she wound up backing away, when she'd repeatedly flaked on you before. You have to get better at reading the tea leaves, timble. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, timble9 said:

Also seems odd that she would friendzone me because of her mental health and not wanting to lead me on etc.. 

 I'm just very confused about all this because I've also been rejected in the past for "not pulling the trigger" with girls who wanted to sleep with me.

Unfortunately that is the classic friendzone speech. "My mental heath" Is the new "have a lot going on".

Err on the side of a few dates and being a "gentleman". Hopping in bed randomly (and especially drunk and too exhausted) is not a good system.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Wiseman2

[Versacehottie]

9 hours ago, timble9 said:

My self-esteem really isn't great

I think this is a huge part of the equation.

If you aren't projecting that from the beginning you might be getting a sympathy date, ie they've already decided from before the first date or hookup what they are going to do with you due to how you conduct yourself in life before that moment. You are expecting it to change after the date but it might (probably) will not. It's probably also why they flake and giving weak excuses for not wanting to date you, ie they are lukewarm to begin with bc of your self-esteem stuff. 

I agree with the other person who said 2 people isn't a pattern. Though I think at the same time, you shouldn't let it get out of control by letting it become a pattern.  If your self-esteem is an issue that problem and this pattern or a version of will likely follow you around. 

Also I would say that going out with people or chasing after girls who are either jerking you around or not into you and flaking on you to begin with, is going to contribute to self-esteem issues as well as probably a SIGN that you are looking for a girl you deem worthy to bring up your self esteem by what you can attain on the outside, ie what level of girlfriend. Which is probably why you allow this poor treatment and are still interested in them. Think about ...if it has the ring of any truth to it, I'd say the first thing you need to do is work on your self-esteem. good luck 

[Lotsgoingon]

This is an easy one bro. I'm not sure you're picking the wrong girls, but you are usually using faulty software in the way you are thinking about dating.

Time to update your understanding. There is no such thing as mixed signals. There is no such thing as "flakey." 

Mixed signals = not interested. Flakey = not interested. Now, these people might be interested enough for what happened, a mini-fling. But you can't talk someone into being ready to date. And having sex, even great sex, does not mean good dating potential. 

Quit pursuing ambivalent, uninterested women. Guys who are players would call your experiences success. Big success. And they'd be happy because they are only looking to hook up. You are apparently good looking enough and charming enough (and persistent enough for sure!) that a woman might fool around with you. Doesn't mean in the slightest that she is interested in dating you. 

Learn the lesson: hesitancy, flakiness, mixed signals--all of those mean NOT interested, not ready, to date seriously. Period! Where did you get the idea that drinking and groping means someone is seriously interested in us? 

There is an excellent article on this by Mark Manson, the best-selling writer who is absolutely brilliant on key aspects of dating. The title of the article delivers the key insight. The title is (cleaned up) "Fork Yes or No." Basically the point is that dating seriously requires both people to be fiercely interested. Fiercely, strongly, wildly so. Anything less that "F Yes!" interest means the person is not interested in us for real romance. 

BTW: you were NOT friendzoned because you were always in the friendzone from the start. Having sex does not take you out of the friend zone. All kinds of friend have flings and then the day after, want to do NOTHING more. All the time. And btw2: it's not clear at all why you would want to date these two women seriously, when all you were doing were pursuing sex with them. It's like you friend a pretty woman, who outwardly isn't a serial killer and you pounce. There's nothing in your writeup that indicates that YOU really like them. 

Read the article bro: it's actually a classic. Just google Mark Manson and "F Yes or No." I don't link because the fully spelled-out  F word is in the title of the link. 

Bottom line: look for someone who is as interested and ready for you as you are in them--with no persuading on your part. None! And kill the thought that fooling around with someone physically means you're really interested in them. These women were straight up and all the clear signals were there. You just got to pay attention. 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Lotsgoingon

[timble9]

Thanks for the replies everyone, making me feel a lot better about the situation. I logically know that these girls were emotionally unavailable and probably not all that interested in me, I guess it's still just a bit fresh and my emotions are trumping the logic and the reason I have these emotions to begin with are probably because of my own issues with self-esteem.

I keep dwelling on the fact that I got whiskey dick and couldn't have proper sex with the second girl - she said at the time she was disappointed because she really wanted me inside of her. I explained that I usually whiskey dick when I drink (she had never heard of this before despite being 26) and generally tended to avoid drunken hook-ups because of it, instead making the effort to focus on her pleasure which she said she thoroughly enjoyed and we agreed to get together again sober. The fact that she isn't giving me this chance should be enough for my brain to recognize that she mustn't have been that interested in me to begin with. My ego is probably just throwing a big tantrum.