Am I wrong to be this upset?

[Leigh116]

Hello.   I have posted on this site before but it was so many years ago I couldn't remember my info.    You're typically a helpful bunch so wanted to come on today to get your take on a situation.   

Some background, and I know this will be long but I'm trying to give as much context as I can.   

I have been with my now husband for over 5 years.  When we met, I had been divorced for a long time and he was very newly divorced.  We are in our 50's.   I didn't take it seriously at first knowing he was so newly divorced but in a handful of months we became serious,  spending a lot of time together and falling in love.     We were together about 3 years when we started talking about moving in together.  In that move we sold both of our houses and bought a new one together.  We married a few months ago.    

Our relationship is amazing.  He's the sweetest man I have ever met.  Kind.  Funny.   We communicate very well together, he's very loving, he supports me, he cares about me.   In these 5 years I had (and beat) cancer.  I lost my mom unexpectedly.   He's a great partner to me and was so good during those hard times.    I can't stress enough about how we have a great relationship.  He says this is the best relationship he's been in and he's grateful for me every day.   He tells me he loves me constantly, we sleep all cuddled up together, sex is amazing and often.

His ex has a very harsh personality.  They were married about 10 years.  No kids together although she has a daughter that he helped raise for the years they were together.   He is still close to her (the step daughter) although they don't see each other much.    He and his ex fought constantly and she talked down to him a lot.    Eventually she cheated on him and left him for another man who she is still with today.    At the time he desperately didn't want the divorce and fought to keep her, not knowing she was leaving for another man.   (found that out later)

There is this one issue though that keeps creeping up and I am having a hard time reconciling it.   

More back story.  When they divorced they shared a dog.  So this meant he kept in contact with her for the back and forth of the dog.   When we first met this was going on and I never said anything about it, he loved that dog and I got that.   But I had to sometimes witness the 'pick ups and drop offs' and them being friendly and laughing with each other in parking lots while I waited in the car (on purpose, I just never liked this woman from the start she gets under my skin).     

As much as I love him, he 's the type of person who doesn't handle things in a timely manner.    After a few months of dating and him friending me on FB, I noticed he still had all of their couple pictures on his FB.  Them posing for pictures and kissing and whatnot.  I asked him to make them so only he could see them because I didn't like seeing them.     He also still had some of her stuff in his house here and there.    I guess what I'm saying is that he didn't make a clean break.    At the time I tried to be patient because I knew they had just divorced and I knew he had to go through things in his own timeline and not mine.

Through the years this is the type of stuff that would crop up.    The pics on FB we discussed and he took down or made private.   The dog drop offs that kept him in contact with her.  Also IMO she was using him as a dog sitter and sometimes we would have plans for a holiday weekend and she would ask him to take the dog and he would agree without asking me even though it meant we had to alter our plans a bit.   They no longer share the dog, I think that went on only for about 2 years, she has the dog now full time because she eventually refused to let him see the dog.    There was one time he had to go on a business trip and I found out that he called her before he called me to tell her about the business trip.  Because of the dog he had to let her know he wouldn't be around for 2 weeks. (his words, not mine)    I was occasionally finding stuff of hers around his house that she didn't take but he didn't toss.   Each time we would talk about these things and I felt like we communicated about it very well but then these things would keep happening.    When we moved into our new house I was using his work phone as a hot spot for internet and I saw a couple of text messages between them that I didn't like.    Nothing inappropriate but one was him texting her saying he hears she had covid, how is she feeling type of stuff.  And another that he was out and saw something that made him think of her, he snapped a pic of it and said 'saw this and thought of you, how are you doing?'.      This is all on his work phone, not on his personal phone.    In his defense he has his personal contacts on his business phone and sometimes without thinking he will text friends from his business phone during the work day and not think much of it.  He does it with me also and other friends.  So I'm not sure how much to make of this but it feels like he was hiding it.     When we were moving I found a box of their wedding cards in his basement.   He found a box of stuff (halloween decorations, nothing special) that IMO could have gone in the garbage but he had to call her and arrange to get it back to her.     When I found the text messages I had a complete meltdown.   We talked through it and got through it and I was hoping with this new move to our own house with all of her stuff out of his (and my) life and with them not sharing the dog, etc., etc. that would be the last I would hear of her or about her.

So finally once we moved in to our own house together, things seemed to settle down.    As far as I know, they haven't talked in at least a year.  But then last week a relative of hers (not a close relative) passed away and she has been in contact with him about this relative and the funeral.    He's going to the funeral, she has asked him to be a pall bearer.    I just don't get it.    I feel like he always has one foot in his past relationship with her. 

I guess I would get it if they had kids together and were together a long time.   But his step daughter is an adult.    He tells me that he will always need to keep in some contact with her because they share a daughter.  That daughter is an adult, if you need something you can contact the step daughter you don't need to talk to the ex. 

He's the nicest guy ever.   In a way, this is just him being him.     They were together a long time, these people were like family to him, this is just who he is.     I also have stayed in contact with some of my exes.   Heck 2 of my exes came to our wedding.   He knows that and he's fine with it, they are just friends.  But I don't have the baggage or the history with these guys.   He has other exes that are still in his life that I don't have a problem with.  I'm not typically jealous by nature.   I think it's just because my gut has been telling me for 5 years that he never really got over her.    

I don't feel at all threatened by her.  I trust him completely.   So why am I having such a hard time with his and am I allowed to be making such a big deal of this at this point?  

I think I just feel like all of these 'little' things have built up into this big thing.   And also even though we calmly talk these things through every time something comes up that bothers me, I feel like he's not really listening.  I feel like each time something like this happens  - like 'oh her distant relative passed away so I have to go to the funeral' - I feel like he is choosing her and his past life with her over me.  Because he knows how much this upsets me.   And it's really getting to me now.    He asked me to go to the funeral with him but I won't because I know it will upset me even more to see her and see him in that situation with her family and friends.   

I guess my question is, do I have a right to be upset about these things or should I work harder on letting these things go and just letting him be himself and be that guy who still cares about her family because that's the kind of person he is.   

Thank you for listening

 

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, Leigh116 said:

though we calmly talk these things through every time something comes up that bothers me, I feel like he's not really listening.  I feel like each time something like this happens  - like 'oh her distant relative passed away so I have to go to the funeral' - I feel like he is choosing her and his past life with her over me.

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately you're right that he hasn't let go appropriately. They don't have children so there's no need for him to be this attached. Sadly it sounds like he rushed into a rebound relationship with you when he was not ready and launched into a too much too soon situation.

Rather than keep talking at him, suggest marriage therapy so he can listen to the voice of reason rather than stay trapped in his own excuses and you talking at deaf ears. With  neutral professional guidance he may see the light that staying attached to the past is adversely affecting his present.

[giotto]

Was your present husband's divorce amicable?

[Leigh116]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately you're right that he hasn't let go appropriately. They don't have children so there's no need for him to be this attached. Sadly it sounds like he rushed into a rebound relationship with you when he was not ready and launched into a too much too soon situation.

Rather than keep talking at him, suggest marriage therapy so he can listen to the voice of reason rather than stay trapped in his own excuses and you talking at deaf ears. With  neutral professional guidance he may see the light that staying attached to the past is adversely affecting his present.

Thank you.   You have managed to sum it up nicely.   I was thinking of therapy myself, thanks 

[Leigh116]

8 minutes ago, giotto said:

Was your present husband's divorce amicable?

Well it wasn't angry and bitter.   It was rushed, she asked the judge to rush it.  They had no kids or property together, divorce was final quickly.   He didn't seem to have many hard feelings for her when we first met.   Like he didn't mf her to me or anything.   He was more matter of fact about it.   They kept in contact because of the dog and they were friendly.   I think back then, when they were first divorced, she would leave her door unlocked sometimes so he could enter her apartment and pick up and drop off the dog.     I'm not exactly sure what you mean by amicable.   He didn't want the divorce at all.    He hated their relationship but he always thought they would eventually fix it.    So he didn't want the divorce, he didn't know (at the time) that there was another man in the picture but they weren't angry and dragging it out and fighting.

[FMW]

You have the right to feel whatever you feel about this, and how you are feeling is very understandable.  Maybe my experience will help you put things in a different light though.  

My ex-husband and I were married for 23 years, together a few years before that.  We don't have children.  But we still keep in occasional contact (a text once every month or two).  We have both sent each other pictures of something by text that said something like "this made me think of you".  It's not inconceivable we might attend a funeral for the other's family member.  

I can assure you that I do not want my ex-husband back and I'm not harboring any lingering romantic or in-love type of feelings, and I'm sure he doesn't have any of those feelings for me either.  But that doesn't erase the fact that we were a big part of each other's lives for a long time.  It doesn't stop us from caring what happens with each other.  But again, our contact is very occasional and consists only of a few brief texts.  

As a side note, my ex-husband did not want the divorce either, but that had to do with not wanting to go through the unsettling changes to his life that the divorce would bring, not with not being over me emotionally or romantically.  Men tend to be much more averse to changes like that as they get older than women, although of course there are exceptions.  

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by FMW

[Weezy1973]

This is a tough one. I agree that therapy is probably a good idea. The problem isn’t so much what he’s doing, it’s more that he’s not listening and respecting how you feel. Have you told him explicitly that you don’t want him to have any contact with her? Have you told him you sense he’s not over her and has one foot still in that relationship? 

[glows]

You’ll have to be more direct about how you feel. This has been happening for awhile so it’s unlikely to change easily. 

[Leigh116]

45 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This is a tough one. I agree that therapy is probably a good idea. The problem isn’t so much what he’s doing, it’s more that he’s not listening and respecting how you feel. Have you told him explicitly that you don’t want him to have any contact with her? Have you told him you sense he’s not over her and has one foot still in that relationship? 

Yes we have talked about this endlessly.  Every time a situation comes up we talk about it.  He listens.   He doesn't get angry.  He asks me what he can do to help me feel better about the situation.    He tells me how much he loves me and that he hates seeing me like this, etc., etc.   This last time (the funeral conversation) I think is the first time I said the words 'I don't want you talking to her anymore, it upsets me too much'.  He knows that I have concerns, a gut feeling, that he isn't over her.    So I feel like we have talked about this and have already beat it to death.   I'm not sure what else to say.   But I am now starting to feel like it's chipping away at our relationship and how I feel about him.   Just a tiny bit.  But enough to scare me.   

[Leigh116]

2 hours ago, FMW said:

You have the right to feel whatever you feel about this, and how you are feeling is very understandable.  Maybe my experience will help you put things in a different light though.  

My ex-husband and I were married for 23 years, together a few years before that.  We don't have children.  But we still keep in occasional contact (a text once every month or two).  We have both sent each other pictures of something by text that said something like "this made me think of you".  It's not inconceivable we might attend a funeral for the other's family member.  

I can assure you that I do not want my ex-husband back and I'm not harboring any lingering romantic or in-love type of feelings, and I'm sure he doesn't have any of those feelings for me either.  But that doesn't erase the fact that we were a big part of each other's lives for a long time.  It doesn't stop us from caring what happens with each other.  But again, our contact is very occasional and consists only of a few brief texts.  

As a side note, my ex-husband did not want the divorce either, but that had to do with not wanting to go through the unsettling changes to his life that the divorce would bring, not with not being over me emotionally or romantically.  Men tend to be much more averse to changes like that as they get older than women, although of course there are exceptions.  

 

 

I feel like I would be o.k with some of these things, going to a funeral of someone who was in his life for a short time, if it wasn't for my gut feeling that he isn't (or wasn't) over her.     I think it's that lingering gut feeling that makes me uneasy.    Thank you for your perspective I really appreciate it

[giotto]

3 hours ago, Leigh116 said:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by amicable.

He seems still rather attached to his ex wife, so I assumed that maybe they went separate way amicably but he was still in love with her. Are you saying he didn't want a divorce despite hating their relationship? That's a bit weird. And now that he knows about the other man he is still "friends" with her? I mean, marriages are complicated, but his behaviour doesn't make much sense. 

[BrinnM]

9 minutes ago, Leigh116 said:

it wasn't for my gut feeling that he isn't (or wasn't) over her. 

He does appear to have a soft spot for her, and maybe you feel left out (of their communications, text messages, shared pictures, plans, etc.), and/or disrespected (plans changing last minute to accommodate her, them talking behind your back, him bending over backwards to get stuff back to her that he shouldn’t bother with, etc.) - I’d be upset, too, but this is something you can’t change.
 

The more you complain, the more he’ll value her. She left him for another man, and he didn’t want the divorce. To him, it probably feels a little bit like unfinished business, because he didn’t have a say in how their relationship ended, and therefore he might never be over it; but this doesn’t mean he wants her back or would ever take her back. His general behavior towards you is very positive, pleasant, and loving. He treats you well, and he makes an effort as a husband. But I understand how difficult this must be if there’s another woman floating around in his head and heart. Sucks. Sorry you’re dealing with this. 

[Weezy1973]

25 minutes ago, Leigh116 said:

'I don't want you talking to her anymore, it upsets me too much'. 

What was his response? If this was the first time you’ve articulated what you actually want (him to cease all contact) he might think it was a “heat of the moment” comment rather than your honest, well thought out wishes. You need to have a calm discussion rather than one that is “triggered” by something happening. Don’t place blame on him so he gets defensive. 

[BaileyB]

33 minutes ago, Leigh116 said:

Yes we have talked about this endlessly.  Every time a situation comes up we talk about it.  He listens.   He doesn't get angry.  He asks me what he can do to help me feel better about the situation.    He tells me how much he loves me and that he hates seeing me like this, etc., etc.  So I feel like we have talked about this and have already beat it to death. 

Well, unfortunately your husband didn’t have good personal boundaries with her during their marriage (in that, she treated him badly and he stayed), so it shouldn’t really be a surprise that he doesn’t enforce healthy personal boundaries with her now. 

It goes without saying that the very thing that you love the most about him - that he’s a good, kind, caring, and giving man is also what’s getting him into trouble here - he is also good, kind, caring, and forgiving with his ex-wife. 

Unless he had a close personal relationship with the individual that died, I see no reason for him to attend the funeral (certainly not as pallbearer).

Edited September 4, 2022 by BaileyB

[Leigh116]

9 hours ago, giotto said:

He seems still rather attached to his ex wife, so I assumed that maybe they went separate way amicably but he was still in love with her. Are you saying he didn't want a divorce despite hating their relationship? That's a bit weird. And now that he knows about the other man he is still "friends" with her? I mean, marriages are complicated, but his behaviour doesn't make much sense. 

Yes I know it doesn't make sense but that's what I meant to say.   They had a horrible marriage.   But I think he thought one day they would work it out and it would get back to being good so he stuck it out.  Also I think the fear of the unknown, hating change kept him paralyzed in the relationship.    He says he's happier now.  I believe him.   I have seen her [nasty] side in action and it's not pretty.   I don't think he would have ever taken her back.   I think it's just unfinished business.    In his mind anyway.   

Also since she left him for another man, maybe there's a piece of him that wants to show her that she didn't get to him.  That he is o.k.  So if he's nice to her and not bitter maybe that shows that.   I don't know.   

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
gendered insult

[Leigh116]

7 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Well, unfortunately your husband didn’t have good personal boundaries with her during their marriage (in that, she treated him badly and he stayed), so it shouldn’t really be a surprise that he doesn’t enforce healthy personal boundaries with her now. 

It goes without saying that the very thing that you love the most about him - that he’s a good, kind, caring, and giving man is also what’s getting him into trouble here - he is also good, kind, caring, and forgiving with his ex-wife. 

Unless he had a close personal relationship with the individual that died, I see no reason for him to attend the funeral (certainly not as pallbearer).

Very good point.    I was married to an angry, bitter man for 20 years, I know what that's like and no thank you.   So I love that he is the opposite.  But I guess that comes with these issues.  Horrible boundaries, etc.    This is just who he is.  But I can't seem to get past this and I feel like I need to.    I feel that, knowing my wishes, he has no reason to talk to her unless her daughter is in serious trouble (she has some mental health issues, the daughter) and she needs to let him know.   I feel like there is no other reason for him to be in touch with her.   

I've always been the kind of woman to just let him do what he wants to do, to be himself, and to not make waves when things aren't serious.   I never put my foot down early on (like with the dog drop offs etc) because I just didn't feel like it was my place.  But now I'm tired and I'm suffering the consequences of him not setting some boundaries with her early on.    Thank you for your help you hit the nail on the head

[understand50]

Leigh116,

 

I think you also have to take in to account that both of you have had a long and varied life before you got together.   It is one of the things about getting married again or for the first time in your 50s.  When you are young, it is easier to leave things behind and look forward to the future, but in your 50s, you have less time in fount of you, so you may tend to hold on to things in your past.  You husband has a relationship with his step daughter.  He wants to stay on friendly terms with his Ex,  OK, on the face of it this does not seem too out of line. As for yourself, you had several Ex come to your wedding.   I guess, if everything is going well, and the marriage is good, I would not dwell, too much on this.  I would have a couple of rules to follow.

1) Full discloser  on on all interaction with his Ex, and all ex's.  (this would be for both of you)

2) While a full briefing of both your pasts any not be what is needed.  A good idea of both your romantic pasts, keying in on anything that may hurt your present marriage could be helpful.  (hopefully, you had this "talk" before you tied the knot)

3) letting the other know,  if you   meet or interact with a past lover, even if it was a casual thing at the time.

Sunshine, works best in this situation.  If you think he is spending too much energy on his ex, then call him out, but if if is not really doing much, past being polite,  then I would not worry too much.

My two cents, and I wish you luck.

 

[Lotsgoingon]

Hmmmm ... I don't care how good and caring and nice and wonderful this guy is, the ongoing thing with his ex is a major problem. It's disrespectful to you, it undermines your relationship with him, it's rude, it's immature. It's a major problem.

Doesn't matter how "wonderful he is." I was wonderful as a young man, and I did all kinds of things with partners that undermined the relationship. And if they didn't confront me, the problem just festered. 

Keeping the ex's photos with him on his FB. That's unacceptable. On a level of 0 to 10 ... with 0 being not a problem and 10 being a major problem, that's close to a 10. It's easy to minimize it because it's only photos, right? And he's otherwise nice. But if these are only photos, why is he so attached to them.

I'll be blunt: any fool--including a player, cheating fool--knows you can't have photos of your ex and you on a social media page.  And knows you can't be frequently calling the ex. 

I think you're minimizing things here. You would have to be a robot to not be bothered by this. Scratch that. Modern AI robots, would scan the web and articles and would figure out this is unacceptable and destructive to your present relationship. 

I get the hard position you're in. So think about it. I really think this is worth a fight. But ... usually when there are things like this, it means there are OTHER problems in the relationship. What are those other problems, consistent with this behavior, that troubles you--even a little bit?

You're me that he's not emotionally distant from you at times. If so, I don't believe you. 

[FMW]

Putting aside rigid judgments about acceptable boundaries, the issue is what is acceptable to you.  His choice to maintain contact with his ex-wife is clearly not acceptable to you.  I think more discussion between the two of you is needed to make sure he clearly understands how much this bothers you.  It's probably nothing anyone on this board or even a counselor can change for you.  He's the only one that can do that for you.  Tell him clearly that it is undermining your relationship and your feelings for him.   

Edited September 4, 2022 by FMW

[Weezy1973]

What he’s doing isn’t the issue. As you can see, some people think it’s fine, others don’t. What isn’t okay is you feeling so uncomfortable in your relationship. However, I get the impression that you haven’t really put your foot down. You were hoping he’d stop contact completely because you were upset at the time. You need to be explicit. You need him to stop all contact. Make a clean break. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Agree with @Weezy1973. You have not stood for yourself. Some stuff you ask politely the first time, the second time.

And then it's time to get serious and go nuclear if you have to. You have to make it clear how unhappy you are. 

My guess is that there is a lot of other stuff you're letting him get away with. 

Correction to my last line previously.

You're me that he's not emotionally distant from you at times. If so, I don't believe you. 

Should have been:

You're telling he that he is not emotionally distant to you at times? If so, I don't believe you.

There has to be emotional distance for him to do this and for you to put up with this (emotional distance on both sides). 

[basil67]

You've said that you're both in contact with other exes and you're fine with this.  So how does his contact with this ex differ to the contact you both have with your own exes?  In particular, what makes you feel that he's not over her, but is over his other exes?

[Leigh116]

Hey.    I only have a few, going to try to answer some of these questions.   I REALLY appreciate all of your thoughts and perspectives.   

In my first post I had a laundry list of things that had happened.  Some of them were just one offs, only happened once but it was enough to give me some pause.    So I'll go through some of the thoughts, questions you guys had to hopefully give this some clarity.  

The pics on FB.   We had been dating about 6 weeks when he friended me on FB.   When I accepted his request that is the first time I saw that he still had couply pics on FB.  I agree, not cool.  IMO those should have been taken down (or made private so only he could see them) before he started dating.   I've had other guy friends disagree with me but that is my opinion.   I talked to him about it and asked that he take them down and within a handful of hours, they were all gone.    I asked him in the evening and by morning they were gone.   I guess he couldn't sleep and he got up in the middle of the night and took care of it and told me in the morning that he took them all done and apologized for making me uncomfortable.    So this has not been an issue for 5 years.   

And no he's not at all emotionally distant.  Even though someone said they would say I was lying, lol, here I am telling you he's not.   He's the most present person I've ever dated.  We communicate well, we spend a lot of time together.    I am a performer and I have about 5 shows a month and he goes with me 90% of the time.   Gets a beer and a hamburger and cheers me on.    He sleeps all cuddled up in me, if we drift in the middle of the night he will often wake up and reach for my hand and fall back asleep.  We have sex 3-4 times a week.    We have a lot of deep conversations, he asks me every day how my day was and he really listens.   We make dinner together often.   I'm not sure how much more to say to show that we have a great relationship.   If it wasn't this way, I would not have moved in with him.  If I had these concerns that maybe he didn't get over the ex AND he was acting distant I would have been out.    I know it sounds like I'm making excuses but I'm saying this is why I'm confused.  

When we were clearing out his house for the sale he found that useless box of stuff in the attic.  She had reached out to him about something she thought he might still have at the house that she could have (an appliance of sorts) he answered her and told her no, he had gotten rid of it.  Then he said to her 'Leigh116 and I bought a house, this house is closing in a week, I have a box of stuff that's yours I need to get it back to you'.        

That was actually the text I saw when I was using his phone for a hot spot which made me look back at other texts to see the texts he sent her 6 months prior.    In the conversation (my meltdown over this, the first time I made a really big deal out of it) about those texts I told him I wasn't comfortable with him meeting with her to give her the stuff so he reached out to his step daughter and he met up with his step daughter to give her the box for her mom.    

As far as other exes.  I had 2 of my exes at our wedding.  These were guys I dated 2-3 months, we decided better off as friends and we've stayed friends.   My now husband knows the history of these guys and he's actually now very friendly with one of the guys because they share a common hobby.     So to me, it's apples and oranges.    I have no feelings for these men and he knows it.  

The difference is, to me, that I have this nagging feeling that he has or had through some of our relationship, feelings for his ex wife.  So this is what makes it inappropriate to me.  

Now as far as I know, up until last week with this funeral stuff, he hasn't talked to her since spring of 2021 when she reached out to him about this appliance she was hoping he kept and he said 'hey I have a box of your stuff'.    So this isn't an ongoing issue. 

Well I have to run, time got away from me.  Thank you all

[ExpatInItaly]

52 minutes ago, Leigh116 said:

Now as far as I know, up until last week with this funeral stuff, he hasn't talked to her since spring of 2021

 Yet he's still so close to the family that she wants him as a pallbearer at the funeral? 

[Leigh116]

8 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

 Yet he's still so close to the family that she wants him as a pallbearer at the funeral? 

Ya I know.   I just don't know what to make of it.    They were a family for 10 years.  He says this aunt who passed away was at all of the family gatherings, etc., etc.    The Pall bearer thing is too much I think