I'm Edith and my husband has been cheating for 14 years - UPDATE

[vla1120]

I’ve been wondering how you are, Edith. Maybe he has decided there is no point to meeting her since she is leaving. My other thought (because I am naturally suspicious) is that he has some other means to contact her - another phone perhaps? I hope not. I hope you can rest easy in the assurance that he is done with her. I don’t understand why you tolerate his betrayal, but I guess you have accepted his philandering to a certain extent. I hope you have enough of a full life and involvement in other areas that you do not waste precious time worrying about this situation (though, as evidenced by your checking his social media daily, it does weigh on your mind.) 

[Allupinnit]

I'm rather shocked that he hasn't caught on to your snooping yet.  Are you literally going on to his phone and computer immediately after him and checking his histories?  

This is so sad!

[edith]

About 2 weeks ago, my husband reached out to the woman again. They were supposed to meet in NY at the end of January, she was going to book a room at the same hotel where he’d be staying, and he was supposed to let her know which one so she could book it. He goes to NY overnight once a week.

The date when they’d be supposed to meet comes and goes, he sends her nothing. She doesn’t ask. I’m checking this every day. 
 

Then 2 weeks ago, on a Monday night, he messages her his usual “Hey”. She replied a couple of hours later, saying “Jack, what’s wrong with us? Why can’t we move on? Do you know? Because I can’t figure it out. I don’t know about you, but I’m genuinely curious.”

He writes back “Yes, as always. I think we are both very horny, haha”. She replied “Horny for each other for 12 years without ever having sex, that’s quite an accomplishment “ he says “It is.”

Then she asks... “Why did you change your mind last time?” I see the time stamp and it took him 10 whole minutes to reply. It had been taking him one minute. Then he writes “I think I had to go to NY for work on that day” !!!!!

I saw this the next day, she had read it 5 minutes later and she never replied. She completely dropped him! I saw that he checked their conversation obsessively that night, I saw it the next morning and he had actually checked it that morning at 5:47! My husband never wakes up early. 
 
But I am right - he forgot he was supposed to meet her in NY and decided to lie to her!! I almost passed out. I was so happy. If this doesn’t prove that she means nothing to him, I don’t know what does.

He has been checking the messaging app multiple times a day - he’s not talking to anyone else on it, and every time I open it, it opens to their conversation because he checks when she was last online.

He stills checks her FB. But he hasn’t reached out to her at all.

Thoughts? Am I right in my assessment that he forgot they were supposed to meet in NY and that proves he feels nothing for her?

Edited March 7, 2020 by edith

[mark clemson]

Your assessment could indeed be correct, but it's hard to say. The whole thing seems weird to me. My guess is she will indeed be annoyed but will eventually come back for more breadcrumbs or whatever these two feed each other.

If this has really been an ongoing EA for 12 years where they hint at sex but don't actually carry it out, my guess is they never will. They are just there to feed each others' egos and similar. I could of course be wrong but that what it seems like to me.

[edith]

They’ve had oral sex 6 times, but no intercourse because she’s against it. And the dirty talk is nonstop when they’re together.

[mark clemson]

To me that's not an EA then, but as the spouse, you really are the one to decide what constitutes an EA/PA etc.

I remember reading your thread a while back, Edith. I don't have specific advice for you as I recognize you feel there are specific barriers to leaving the marriage. Speaking for myself, I would have been gone LONG ago, but that's me.

[K.K.]

3 minutes ago, edith said:

They’ve had oral sex 6 times, but no intercourse because she’s against it. 
 

Oh yea right cause having his dick in her mouth 6 times with all the cum running down her throat and dribbling over her lips still counts as being a lady but having his dick in her vagina would just be sinful! The horror!   

[edith]

17 minutes ago, K.K. said:

Oh yea right cause having his dick in her mouth 6 times with all the cum running down her throat and dribbling over her lips still counts as being a lady but having his dick in her vagina would just be sinful! The horror!   

That’s exactly how I feel, I think it’s ridiculous. At the same time, I think it has helped to keep him from being emotionally involved with her. And I’m really looking forward to hear what people think of his lying. He 

[assertives]

6 hours ago, edith said:

But I am right - he forgot he was supposed to meet her in NY and decided to lie to her!! I almost passed out. I was so happy. If this doesn’t prove that she means nothing to him, I don’t know what does.

 

5 hours ago, edith said:

I’m really looking forward to hear what people think of his lying.

I'm not sure how can you be so happy to the point of passing out over this. Is this all you expect from your husband? It doesn't matter what others think, at this point, you will think/feel whatever you want to to fit your own narrative that he doesn't love her. Only he means something to him, everyone else means nothing to him.

Also, what about his LYING TO YOU FOR HOWEVER LONG YOU'VE BEEN MARRIED TO HIM? Does that not also tells you he doesn't love you too? Or that you mean nothing to him? Goodness. What exactly do you and all the other women see in this man?!

[edith]

Very good points, thank you. But I’m looking for confirmation that the fact he forgot about their get-together and then lied to her means that this affair isn’t important to him. That he doesn’t have feelings for her. I mean, what else could it mean?

[BaileyB]

Nobody here is going to tell you that your it’s good news that your serial cheat of a husband hasn’t met this woman and had sex with her. It feels significant to you, but it is rather inconsequential if you look at the big picture...

Edited March 8, 2020 by BaileyB

[Amethyst68]

So while you've been concentrating on this woman has your husband been meeting up and having sex with his other OW?

[edith]

Yes, but it’s one that he only sees once every few months. It’s not serious. Why? Does that make a difference in relation to this long term affair and the fact he lied to her?

[IndigoNight]

21 hours ago, edith said:

Very good points, thank you. But I’m looking for confirmation that the fact he forgot about their get-together and then lied to her means that this affair isn’t important to him. That he doesn’t have feelings for her. I mean, what else could it mean?

How are you checking his messages without any trace of your having checked them? Or, is there a history of you repeatedly checking for updates in their conversation? That he can see.

You want confirmation that he doesn't have feelings for her, but honestly, I do not see him (or anyone else) continuing their relationship on and off for as long as he has unless there were, in fact, feelings of some kind involved. There has to be a benefit, if since kind, for staying in one another's lives. Otherwise what purpose would it serve, for either of them? As for they've only engaged in oral sex six times, I find that hard to believe. Maybe the oral sex is just that good, and there is no need for PIV sex. 🤔

Is your husband aware that you seem to be giving him a free pass on the oral sex, and the relationship that he has had with this woman for 12 years? Maybe they have engaged in more, but just talk about oral because you have allowed it to continue. 

I realize that you want someone to tell you, "nope, he's not having an emotional affair" and reassure you that she means nothing to him, but based on what you have shared, I am sorry, but they are far too connected for it to be harmless.

Sorry.

In my experience you don't keep someone around, discussing sex in dirty detail, for over a decade, and it means nothing. Whatever it is, they provide something to one another that they feel is missing in their personal life. As for what that is exactly, it's hard to say. Only they could answer that.

I highly doubt that he forgot about her in NY. I think that you just haven't figured out how they contacted one another. 

If it were me, aside from the fact that I would have left 12 years ago, I would be searching for the account (s) that haven't been found, yet. I'd be looking for websites that have a message, guestbook, or chat feature. It's so much easier to hide in a harmless gaming, hubby, out lifestyle website that has a chat or message feature.

They could also be using the hotel phones. You have no way to track that option. Does the hotel they stayed in have a lobby phone for hotel guests to use? That is an easy, and untraceable, way to communicate with other hotel guests.

If you really want to bury your head in the sand, clouds, or wherever you need it to be,  and act like everything is okay because they have only engaged in oral sex 6 times, and he "forgot" her in NY, causing you to swoon in relief, you should stop reading all of their messages to each other. Choosing to believe that she means nothing to him, and they aren't in a relationship, and  having an emotional affair, because you deduced from his messages that you frantically kept checking while he was in NY, have convinced you that he forgot to meet her. Believe any way you choose to. It's entirely your choice.

You might not want to ask other people what they think, if you don't want an honest answer, or opinion based on information that you have provided. People on this website respond to a thread, usually in an attempt to help each other; often through a difficult situation. This is no different. 

I am not trying to be hurtful, and I am sorry if anything I've written has upset you. If you want to believe that she means nothing to him, or he to her. That he is still all yours, and you can finally relax, and believe in your marriage. Perhaps you should stop searching for answers that you don't seem to want to find.

Checking his messages repeatedly, throughout the day, searching for a glimmer of hope, could not have put your mind at ease. If all you are looking for is someone to agree with you, and reassure you, there might be a different question you could ask. JMO

[BaileyB]

What you are missing indigo night is that she is just one of many, and edith is focused on this woman because according to edith - sex is fine, but an emotional affair is not. And yes, we all agree with you that sex/no sex, he wouldn’t have continued this one affair for so long if there wasn’t some kind of emotional connection. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by BaileyB

[edith]

Those are some wonderful insights, thank you so much.

This really isn’t about burying my head in the sand, it’s about being realistic about what this long term affair really means.

They mentioned in the messages that they did not meet in NY, which led her to ask why he changed his mind “last time” (the time they were supposed to meet in NY). It would take too long to explain, but this specific messaging app is the only one he uses with her.

He forgot he was supposed to meet her in NY, couldn’t think of a good lie, and told her “I think I was supposed to go to NY on that day”.

If she has half a brain, she is thinking “I mean so little that he didn’t remember he was supposed to meet me there. He probably has a bunch of other women.” That’s why she stopped replying. She realized at that moment that he can’t even keep plans with mistresses straight, realized she’s not the only one, and dropped him.

Now, just ASSUME for a moment that he DID forget his plans with her. What would that mean? If she were that important, he would have been looking forward to seeing her, and if his plans changed, he would have reached out to her and rescheduled it. He simply didn’t reach out to her. I know it seems like I’m grasping at straws, but he told her such a ridiculous lie that I can’t get over it.

[Amethyst68]

15 hours ago, edith said:

Yes, but it’s one that he only sees once every few months. It’s not serious. Why? Does that make a difference in relation to this long term affair and the fact he lied to her?

Because while you're fixated on the one OW from the past, who seems to give great BJs and who he seems attached to you ignore the fact that he's having sex with a constantly changing supply of new OW and then coming home and having sex with you. It's only luck you haven't caught an STI yet, unless he has passed one on and you haven't told us. Fair enough, that's your private business. 

The other danger is the next OW is the one he falls head over heels in lust for, the one he decides he can't live without, he becomes emotionally attached and wants to be with her. From everything you've described about him he's at that middle age danger zone where it's likely to happen. Ignoring his cheating isn't going to help you. Why you've fixated on this one woman I don't know, you've got more than one threat to your marriage.

 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, edith said:

If she has half a brain, she is thinking “I mean so little that he didn’t remember he was supposed to meet me there. He probably has a bunch of other women.” That’s why she stopped replying. She realized at that moment that he can’t even keep plans with mistresses straight, realized she’s not the only one, and dropped him.

Well, that’s a huge assumption to make. That’s most definitely projection on your part.

Why would she ever believe that he is seeing other women? And even if she did, why would that matter to her? It doesn’t seem to matter to you - pot-kettle.

[vla1120]

Edith, it does not really matter what anyone out here thinks. You have picked out and justified the small details that fit into your theory that this is not an EA, and you have convinced yourself.  I doubt anyone out here would have stayed with him all these years simply because they believed his infidelity was "just sex" and did not mean anything to him. No one would have stuck around long enough to be toiling over this idea now that this ONE woman (of many) MAY mean something more to him because they cannot seem to let one another go.  Have you gone to therapy to determine why you think so little of yourself to allow this man to treat you this way for years? 

Here is my final answer. A cheater is a cheater is a cheater. Regardless of HOW he feels (or doesn't feel) about the woman he's banging (or not banging), he definitely does NOT care enough about you to be faithful. If you are willing to accept his cheating with one woman, then you should be willing to accept his cheating with ALL women so you stop driving yourself insane thinking about all of this!

[mark clemson]

18 hours ago, edith said:

Yes, but it’s one that he only sees once every few months. It’s not serious. Why? Does that make a difference in relation to this long term affair and the fact he lied to her?

Edith, denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Not sure what else to say to you at this point.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Edith, why don't you just call this other woman you're concerned about and ask her if there's an emotional connection between them and what it all means to her? Ask her if she'd like to build a life with your husband. You don't have any control over your husband's feelings, but at least this could help you make sense of the situation. 

[IndigoNight]

Quote

Now, just ASSUME for a moment that he DID forget his plans with her. What would that mean? If she were that important, he would have been looking forward to seeing her, and if his plans changed, he would have reached out to her and rescheduled it. He simply didn’t reach out to her. I know it seems like I’m grasping at straws, but he told her such a ridiculous lie that I can’t get over it.

Edith

Who are you trying to convince that she means nothing to him? Why does it matter? As long as you accept the terms of your marriage, what is the issue? How you choose to live your life is your business, and requires no justification. 

To answer your question: Assuming he blew her off, and gave her a lame excuse for doing so, what does it mean? That he blew her off and gave her a lame excuse for doing so. I could ASSUME that if she meant nothing to him that he didn't even need to bother with a lame excuse. Or, I could ASSUME that since he bothered giving her a reason, of any kind, that she must mean something to him and he didn't want to ignore her. I could also ASSUME that since she dropped him after over a decade that he has hurt her, and there must have been emotions involved between the two of them. The problem with assumptions is that there is rarely much truth involved when making them. Assumptions are based on our own beliefs and preconceived notions, and based only on what the person assuming believes or wants to believe. One should not rely on assumptions when seeking the truth. 

Your mocking of her (" he told her such a ridiculous lie that I can’t get over it")  is telling though. I will just ASSUME it doesn't mean what I think it does. Because, otherwise I would be thinking that you're insecure, and grasping at straws to avoid the truth. The truth being that you really do not blindly accept that your husband sleeping with other women is okay. Like I said, assumptions shouldn't be relied upon.

 

[edith]

So, they’re not in touch exactly, but I’m still monitoring everything he does. He has changed his Facebook behavior - he posts nothing, never likes anyone’s posts but his father’s when he posts our kids, but last week he started liking her pictures!

 

It happens daily. And it’s not just pictures of her either - it’s pictures of her child when she’s nowhere in sight. He checks the messaging app - their conversation only - dozens of times a day to see if she’s been on, I guess. 

 

She has started posting clips of tv shows where the two protagonists can’t be together but love each other and can’t stay apart. She posts songs. He doesn’t like those because I guess that would be too much, but he keeps liking her pictures. I think it’s just a matter of time before he contacts her again. Am I right to be bothered by this? Not only is it proof that he’s not over her, but he’s trying to make sure he stays on her mind. Or am I making too much of it?

Edited March 26, 2020 by edith

[jspice]

don’t be silly. It’s nothing. I’m sure the “likes” are just slips of his finger when he means to like his dad’s posts. 
 

But you should keep checking the messaging app to see if it changes. Maybe more often than you are now. A couple of times an hour at least. 

[edith]

I can deal with people making fun of me on this forum, if they at least offer some valuable insight, which you haven’t done.

I just have a feeling that this has progressed for him and that he’s in love with her. I could understand liking her selfies, but pictures of her child without her in it is what bothered me the most. And how he’s trying to keep himself relevant to her.