I just don't know anymore, I'm broken.

[Throwaway788]

Hi, so a bit of backstory here. Me and my partner (let's say T ) have been together 10 years this year, as with all relationships - we have had our ups and downs. We met when we both worked for the same company, she ended up leaving work to raise our 2 children for a few years, leaving me as the sole income. She lost a lot of confidence and out some weight on (as did i), so I have been constantly supporting her, telling her she's beautiful and that I love her regardless. When the time came that she wanted to go back to work, T picked hairdressing, as it worked around me working full time. Because I can be somewhat flexible with my shifts, I could accomodate her working whatever hours she needed as long as i knew what days. It didn't bring in a lot of monday, but she seemed happier. During this time an old ex of hers got in touch, and I found out that she ended up spending the night with him in a hotel, after lying to me saying she was out with friends.

I felt betrayed, hurt, angry, broken, everything. T swore nothing happened in the hotel, I still don't 100% believe it. After family members found out the reason we were going to break up, they had a talk, then she talked with me and sobbed that she didn't want to lose me. I ended up taking her back, feeling that she was genuine.

Fast forward a few more years, and T has got herself a fulltime job, bringing in some decent money, has lost a lot of weight and ia the confident girl I first met once again. It's honestly great seeing her so happy with herself, and her progress. She loves her job and has recently had a promotion. She has lost a lot of weight, in a short amount of time, whilst I haven't. She talks about all the people there, and I feel like I know them all myself from what she tells me.

 T starts going to the gym in the early mornings, she honestly looks so stunning that I feel like such a lucky man. I continue to support and encourage her (as she's in a similar working environment to myself), listening to her and giving her advice if she wants it. I work around her hours, doing half days here, 12 - 14hr days there just so it fits with our childcare. It's nice not being the sole income, and I start thinking that I could maybe step back, spend more time at home woth the kids, as I missed so much these past 10 years, and let her focus on her career. She goes on nights out with her friends, socialises regularly, i think she deserves it after raising the kids.

We were watching a romantic film in bed, she lies down and says 'make love to me', [ ] So I did. I have been suffering with a bit of prem ejac lately, but I lasted a while then. I turn around to her, tell her I love you, she looks back and says the same. I then say I want to marry you ( I have never believed in marriage, as I think it's just a name change, but she's always wanted it) and she stares at me blankly.

I ask her what the problem is, and if she's ok, and she stays silent. I then ask, is there someone else? ( I have previously thought that she may be a bit too close to some of her co workers, always messaging. I gave in the one night and looked through her phone as I had a feeling something was up, but she deleted a lot of messages) She says yes. I ask her if it's someone at work, she says yes. I say don't you love me anymore? I am trying to lose weight, I want to be on the journey with you. She says I don't know. I'm remarkably calm at this point, maybe because i already had a feeling? Idk. We sit and talk, I ask questions and it seems that she doesn't want to be with my anymore, but just didn't know how to tell me. Me, still calm, accepts this and starts talking about the kids, the home, the holiday coming up, the future. Eventually I say ' I don't hate you, you're the mother of my children, I will always love you' and she breaks down ans sobs that she doesn't want to lose me. At this point, I break down and I cry that I don't want to lose her either. 10 years is a long time.

We sit up, hugging and talking about what went wrong. We don't spend enough time together, she says I need to go out with my friends more (I currently have 0 social life, as having to work around her shifts, childcare and the fact non of my friends had kids, so more or less ditched me when the kids were born) I know she feels i'm too fat, and she didn't say it but I don't think she's physically attracted to me anymore. The guy she's been talking to is basically a thinner, younger version of myself. I ask her how far it's gone, she says not very. I then say, well if we want to give this a try, as relationships that are worthing keeping are sometimes a bit of work, You need to transfer. I will give us another chance, if you will, if you transfer. She agrees and we keep talking, mainly about what we're going to do differently from now on, how i'm going to ask my mom to have the kids overnight once a month, just so we can go out together, how we'rw each going to do more for the other, it was a good talk. 

We make up, i'm still very distrusting and my heads all over the place. I said how I was planning to propose this year ( true story, I was going to do it on holiday) and she says she doesn't want to get married anymore. I was at a loss for words. For years she's been wanting to get married and now she doesn't? I think wow, she's come to my way of thinking? The real reason is at the front of my mind. She is not saying yes, as she is still tempted to be with the other guy, and maybe sees no future with me, and this is a slow way to break up?

My confidence, happiness, heart, mind and soul has been shattered. I am in pieces, I try to hide it, as I love her too much and don't want to lose her. I dread her coming back from work, as I got home first. She hadn't replied to my messages all day, so i'm wondering how the day at work has gone, did she ask for a transfer?

T comes back, after the kids are in ned, after a long day. I have cooked dinner, and I ask her how it went. She says there are no transfers available, but she's now getting further training.. 'So where does this leave us? I'm not comfortable with you carrying on working with him'. T says ' I've told him I want to fix it with you'. I start thinking, jesus how far had this actually got? They discussed me? Discussed what was going to happen? Even if this wasn't physical cheating, the intent was there. The emotional connection is there. I say i'm still not comfortable, T says ' do you want me to quit?!' I say no as it makes you happy, and the money is nice. So we talk, cuddle and end up going to bed. Nothing happened in bed, even though I tried. I feel the need for physical and emotional connection, but she was tired.

Move on a couple days later and i'm still a mess, unsure on what I should do. Should I carry on? Am I being a doormat? Is this over anyway? Is 10 years wasted? If it turns out we are over, I can't stay in this town anymore, as there are far too many memories here for me.

Thabkyou for reading that wall, please share your thoughts and ask for any further elaboration if needed. I have no one else to talk to about this, and it's eating me up inside. I'm not eating, I barely sleep, it's affecting my performance at work, and my head is a complete mess. The trust feels like it's gone. I've always trusted her, she betrayed me once, and now she's done it again. Is it my fault? 

Edited September 7, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

I've always trusted her, she betrayed me once, and now she's done it again. Is it my fault? 

Regardless of whether you decide to stay or leave, and you will get opinions here… it is definitely not your fault. 

Definitely not your fault.

You have been a devoted husband to her. If she has turned away from you and away from your marriage, that decision is completely, 100% on her. If she has behaved in ways that have put the stability of your family at risk, if she ultimately decides to leave the marriage, that is her decision. You have been a good and loyal husband, you don’t deserve this. 

That said, do you have the ability to see a counsellor? I’m worried about the fact that this stress is affecting your ability to function at work and in life. If you have insurance, if you have the money, the single best thing you could do for yourself is find a counsellor. 

You are not wrong to feel like the trust is gone from your marriage - she has behaving in ways that are trustworthy. I’m not going to tell you whether you should stay or go, only you can make that decision. If I could advise you of only one thing, it is not to do the “pick me dance.” Don’t wait around for her to decide whether she wants to be with you, or with this other man. It’s not a contest - you are her ‘husband,’ you have every right to expect that your partner will behave in ways that protect and honour your relationship and the family you built together. If she is not doing that and you can not trust her, have the dignity to walk away… Don’t bargain with her to stay. Don’t wait for her to make her pro/con list, as she vacillates indecisively between the two of you. Either she commits to you and does what is required to rebuild the trust that has been broken… or, have the courage to end it. 

I’m so sorry that this has happened to you. Best wishes.

Edited September 6, 2022 by BaileyB

[Throwaway788]

7 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Regardless of whether you decide to stay or leave, and you will get opinions here… it is definitely not your fault. 

Definitely not your fault.

You have been a devoted husband to her. If she has turned away from you and away from your marriage, that decision is completely, 100% on her. If she has behaved in ways that have put the stability of your family at risk, if she ultimately decides to leave the marriage, that is her decision. You have been a good and loyal husband, you don’t deserve this. 

That said, do you have the ability to see a counsellor? I’m worried about the fact that this stress is affecting your ability to function at work and in life. If you have insurance, if you have the money, the single best thing you could do for yourself is find a counsellor. 

You are not wrong to feel like the trust is gone from your marriage - she has behaving in ways that are trustworthy. I’m not going to tell you whether you should stay or go, only you can make that decision. If I could advise you of only one thing, it is not to do the “pick me dance.” Don’t wait around for her to decide whether she wants to be with you, or with this other man. It’s not a contest - you are her ‘husband,’ you have every right to expect that your partner will behave in ways that protect and honour your relationship and the family you built together. If she is not doing that and you can not trust her, have the dignity to walk away… Don’t bargain with her to stay. Don’t wait for her to make her pro/con list, as she vacillates indecisively between the two of you. Either she commits to you and does what is required to rebuild the trust that has been broken… or, have the courage to end it. 

I’m so sorry that this has happened to you. Best wishes.

Thankyou for your response and thoughts. Counselling ia definately an option, one I probably will seek out if I don't feel any better.

I don't want to do the pick me thing, but I also don't want to come across as controlling or manipulative by delivering ultimatems. We both have to live with the decisions she's made, for better or for worse. That being said, if it feels like she's not putting in effort to try and repair this, then I will have to call it as it is. As much as it hurts.

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

 I ask her if it's someone at work, she says yes. I say don't you love me anymore. She says I don't know. 

Sorry this is happening. Unfortunately it seems like she cares about you but wishes to open the relationship. 

There's years of complacency and neglect, but there's also years of building a life and family together.

She wants your blessing to have an emotional affair/ open relationship. Otherwise she would not have brought it up

It's doubtful she told him she's "working on it with you". She doesn't seem to see this as a  either/or situation but a you and him scenario.

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

I don't want to do the pick me thing, but I also don't want to come across as controlling or manipulative by delivering ultimatums.

You are not controlling when you ask your wife to stop communicating in secret with another man.

I hear what you are saying, if she was to respect a healthy boundary with her coworkers, you would never think to tell her who she could or couldn’t not speak with/have a relationship. 

The simple fact is, she hasn’t maintained a appropriate boundary with this man. And, healthy relationships need boundaries. IF she values your marriage and she is having difficulties maintaining an appropriate boundary here, you are helping her to do so by asking that she end all contact with the man. It’s doubtful that she will like this - and that in itself tells you something. That said, you have to ask yourself whether you want to stay in a relationship with a woman who can not/does not want to maintain an appropriate boundary with this/other men. She is not a “safe” partner for you right now in that she is not protecting you or your marriage by maintaining an appropriate boundary with this man. Which is why to me, it’s less an ultimatum than an expectation - either she respects and protects you and your marriage or she does not. And, if she does not then yes, you have a decision to make - you may not want to chose this relationship for yourself given the circumstance. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by BaileyB

[pepperbird2]

All I can say id there are women out there who would give their eye teeth to be with someone as loyal and loving as you.

[Will am I]

Heartbreaking story.

Like always we only read one side of the story. But it really sounds like you are giving it your best. Supporting, accomodating your wife; helping her reach her goals. Being a devoted husband and father.

 

The big problem with this situation seems to be that your wife has a pattern of infidelity. I believe that once is a slip, twice is a pattern. Which poses the following question: will you be in your marriage and family, knowing that your wife's heart will likely continue to stray from time to time?

My strategy for long term decisions is to put myself in the shoes of an older version of me, and look back in time from there. 

What if you stay? Will you break after another ten years and leave? Regretting the ten years wasted?

What of you go? Will you grow older regretting the broken marriage and not having been a full time parent to your children?

Which regret would be bigger?

 

[BaileyB]

56 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

All I can say id there are women out there who would give their eye teeth to be with someone as loyal and loving as you.

Agree. Absolutely. 

[Despin]

She works with this guy, asked you if she should quit working there and you said no?

That was a big mistake.

Unless you aren't really looking to fix this.

[Throwaway788]

So many replies, thanks guys. 

Am I really not asking too much for her to quit, if she values us? This job has given her so much confidence and freedom ( as much as it has backfires on myself), I'm unsure how she'd take it if I demanded it. Am I just asking for more trouble for not pushing it?

She still talks to me about her day, but takes care to not  mention the other guys name. I know they'll be talking each day, but am I being naive thinking that she's just stopped? Her reaction the other nighr seemed genuine. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Throwaway788

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Throwaway788 said:

This job has given her so much confidence and freedomShe still talks to me about her day, but takes care to not  mention the other guys name. I know they'll be talking each day, but am I being naive thinking that she's just stopped? 

Quitting her job will not solve any problems particularly the part about "not being sure she's in love with you anymore". Focus on that part.

[Weezy1973]

9 minutes ago, Throwaway788 said:

am I being naive thinking that she's just stopped? Her reaction the other nighr seemed genuine. 

She doesn’t understand boundaries and how to protect the relationship. She may have stopped, but you’re naive to think it won’t happen again unless those things are addressed.

[Will am I]

3 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

So many replies, thanks guys. 

Am I really not asking too much for her to quit, if she values us? This job has given her so much confidence and freedom ( as much as it has backfires on myself), I'm unsure how she'd take it if I demanded it. Am I just asking for more trouble for not pushing it?

She still talks to me about her day, but takes care to not  mention the other guys name. I know they'll be talking each day, but am I being naive thinking that she's just stopped? Her reaction the other nighr seemed genuine. 

This reads like she hasn’t made up her mind yet. Like she wants to stay in the marriage but she wants the other man too. She wants to have the cake and eat it.

Whether she is at this moment still talking intimately with him, even worse, or not at all, nobody knows. She seems to have taken her emotions on this topic underground.

The ultimate question is not even about what she is doing. It’s about how you experience what she is doing.

Do you feel sufficient trust towards her to accept the situation? Or is it eating you from the inside?

My intuition is that this is a pattern on your wife’s side. I would expect more of the same in the future. If you feel the situation is killing you, that doesn’t rrally leave you any choice.

[mark clemson]

23 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

 T says ' I've told him I want to fix it with you'.

i'm still a mess, unsure on what I should do. Should I carry on?

I have no one else to talk to about this, and it's eating me up inside.

I think the onus is on her, not you to do a good part of the "fixing". That may be an aspect that perhaps neither of you seem to understand particularly well. Even if it wasn't, one partner cannot unilaterally "fix" a deteriorating relationship - it requires both to be working on it.

I'm not going to advise you to separate. That said, if there's "no problem" with things continuing as they are, then they likely will. She is not overly distressed, so there is in a way little definitive reason for her to put in more effort to "fix" things, except perhaps sympathy for your distress. She probably realizes things are "broken" in your relationship intellectually, but at least from what I read into what you say, she is not experiencing the distress herself firsthand. Consider looking for a constructive way to make it clear for her just how broken things are from your perspective, if that's possible.

It's possible she's doing a slow fade, possible she will cheat again. Or maybe not. No one can predict the future.

You could consider therapy to process your emotions if that's feasible. This is not to suggest you should "therapy" your way into accepting her actions, but it would be to help you feel less distressed as you make it clear it's affecting you strongly.

You could consider asking her to attend therapy to help her "overcome her interest in cheating". I'm not sure that would legitimately happen; however, if she's not the type to reflexively become indignant at the idea of therapy (such people are out there), then her willingness to do this would perhaps indicate her willingness to start doing more of her part in "repairing things".

If you or she chooses to do therapy, be a bit cautious as a small, but real, % of them are weirdos and/or have "agendas". Suggest looking for an experienced one who does couple's therapy (so that they're experienced with these sorts of issues, not necessarily that you do couple's counseling at first). If you're unhappy/don't like them, look for a different one. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by mark clemson

[BaileyB]

8 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

Am I really not asking too much for her to quit, if she values us? This job has given her so much confidence and freedom ( as much as it has backfires on myself), I'm unsure how she'd take it if I demanded it. Am I just asking for more trouble for not pushing it?

I’m not one to believe that she MUST quit her job, although it certainly is easier for most affair partners to end the affair if they remove the temptation. I do believe that it is possible to stay BUT she will have to enforce a much stronger boundary with this man. If it was me, I would stop all personal communication (only talk about work) and only talk with other people present. That’s a  strong boundary. 

My question is - what is she doing to demonstrate to you that SHE is motivated to resolve this situation. Ie. Has she made an appointment with a counsellor to think about what she wants for her life? Has she made arrangements for the two of you to speak with a marriage counsellor? Has she shown you with complete transparency that he words match her actions, is she where she says that she is going to be? Has she shown you that he is deleted from her phone? Is she investing more time and effort into your marriage and your family? 

Unfortunately, at the end of the day you have to either trust her, or not. She may seem genuine but words are easily said. Whether she quits her job or not, there are concrete things that she could be doing to demonstrate that she is serious about moving forward and recommitting to you and your marriage. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by BaileyB

[Throwaway788]

Thanks for the thoughts guy, much appreciated.

It's been a couple of days now, amd although I do feel like her words are genuine, I don't see much action.. 

I'm the one who seems to be putting more effort in, video calling during the day, messaging her good morning texts, doing even more around the house, and still taking an interest in her job.

I don't want it to come across that i'm maybe just keeping an eye on her? Even though part of me is, as if she'a talking to me then she may be less inclines to talk to others? One of the reasons she gave me was because sometimes I would stay up too late playing games, and she'd be in bed alone. I've stopped that completely too. 

I don't see much from her end, and obviously she still has contact with that co worker. He's a manager above her in a different department, the way she describes it is that they don't cross paths that often. Rubbish though, as they must of done in order for this to happen.

Am I the a**h*** if I say she can't talk to him at all anymore? What if she has to talk to him due to work? How do I go asking for proof that she's stopped, when she deletes all messages between them? Idk

Again, thanks for the thoughts and repiles, I am taking all the advice on board. 

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, Throwaway788 said:

I'm the one who seems to be putting more effort in, video calling during the day, messaging her good morning texts, doing even more around the house, and still taking an interest in her job.

One of the reasons she gave me was because sometimes I would stay up too late playing games, and she'd be in bed alone. I've stopped that completely too. 

Am I the a**h*** if I say she can't talk to him at all anymore? 

Sorry this is happening. A lot of what you are doing is not all that helpful and in fact seems more like suffocating and text-tethering.

If you live together there's no need to pester her at work.

As far as contact with her manager. You have zero control over that.

Focus on improving your physical and mental health. Get in shape, start a healthy fitness and nutrition plan. Take some classes and courses. Join some groups and clubs.

Become interesting and take pride in yourself. It's good you got off the gaming console but you still have a long road ahead to repair years of non-committal coasting along and taking things for granted.

When is the last time you two had fun? When is the last time you two went away for a weekend or got a babysitter?  When's the last time you made dinner?  

Stop the video calling at work. That is just annoying and thinly veiled checking up on.

[Will am I]

@OP 

It sounds like you are doing everything in your power to keep your wife happy, but she seems to be taking advantage of the situation. Continuing to have her cake and eat it. Reluctant to leave the marriage, but at the same time unwilling to put a full stop to the contacts outside the marriage that you are uneasy with.

As much as I appreciate the effort you are putting into making your wife happy, realize one thing. Being mr. nice guy while she walks over you is not going to increase her respect for you and may be detrimental to your chances of success.

You haven't really revealed your emotional position yet. Are you somewhat ok about her being flirty with other men, or is your jealousy eating you alive? Because in the end it's your emotional position that will show you the path to your best outcome.

 

My approach would be this. In the kindest and least judgemental way possible, explain to your wife how her behaviour is hurting you and making your marriage unsafe for you. Express that at one point, not immediately but eventually, you will leave the marriage if that doesn't change. This will gently force her to make up her mind. And the fact that you are serious about leaving and you will not accept all her behaviour will add to her respect for you. But that's my approach and yours may be different. 

 

[Wiseman2]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:17 PM, Throwaway788 said:

 I have never believed in marriage, as I think it's just a name change, but she's always wanted it.

Hopefully you two can figure something out. Perhaps couples therapy to get the cards on the table and start an open honest dialogue with each other with the guidance of a professional to help.

Either way, improving your own physical and mental health as well as self esteem would be a great place to start whether it works between you two or doesn't.

Keep in mind that this workplace flirtation is more of a symptom of much larger and long standing problems.

[stillafool]

I too am curious as to what your girlfriend is doing to prove to you that she wants this relationship and she has ended her affair.  What effort is she showing to prove her love to you   Has she said that now she does want to marry you or is she still holding out?  TBH with her track record of cheating I'm not sure she's cut out for married life.  I think you should take your focus off of her and focus on yourself and the kids.  If she's going to see the other guy it doesn't matter if she works there or not, or even if you police her or not.  Cheaters always find a way.  So it's important not to chase her to stay with you.  Sometimes you have to be willing to let a person go in order to keep them.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Keep in mind that this workplace flirtation is more of a symptom of much larger and long standing problems.

Absolutely agree.

That said, this speaks to two problems in my humble opinion. There is a woman here who is not sure that she wants to stay in this relationship and has already begun to check out. Whether she checks back in is your to her - there is literally nothing you can do OP to make that happen. You can be the BEST partner to her, as you are clearly trying to be, and she may still cheat/leave. 

Which leads me to the other problem - we have a woman here who doesn’t seem to respect relationship boundaries and lacks a certain honesty and integrity. One could say that cheating more than once is also a symptom of a character flaw that you would be wise not to dismiss OP. 

[Allupinnit]

You're subtly doing the pick-me dance with all of the checking-in, texting, doing more around the house, etc. and she's essentially blamed your actions for the affair.

At the bare minimum she has to quit that job - workplace affairs can go on for years because of the easy access to each other outside the home.  

You can bet her coworker joins her on her nights out while you are home with the kids.

I think you need to prepare for this to be over.  She doesn't want to marry you, she wants the single girl lifestyle with you at home.  And yes she definitely slept with her ex in that hotel room that one time, we're all adults here and that's what adults get hotel rooms for.

[Throwaway788]

I hear what you're all saying, and it's all true. I do need to work on myself more. My identity has somewhat dissapeared over the years. I used to be very social and had a lot of friends. I eventually drifted away from them in order to spend more time with my partner and children. I am now realising that i'm left as a shadow of my former self, with no one really to talk to or spend time with or talk to other than my partner.

I moved away from my old lifestyle (drinking, days out, socialising) as my partner felt left out. We very rarely spend time together due to childcare restrictions, as we mainly have to rely on ourselves and don't get much help. This has all been shaped by her, as she wanted me to be more of a family man, and spend time at home. I was 23 and she was 19 when we got together, i think she feels like she missed out on a lot due to having the kids, so wants to make up for it by going out now.

She goes out with work colleagues mainly, and has recently encouraged me to do the same. Due to my career though, I don't end up being able to create relationships at work due to being management, and moving around a lot. I often find myself working miles from home, so socialising with people from work is often out the question, as I am usually too far out to do anything with them. 

I am now left with me, myself and I. This obviously isn't very attractive, but I have devoted myself to my family, i'll never regret that. We both came from broken families, so we never wanted that for ours. That's one other reason why I believe she is genuine when she says she wants to work it out. I am arranging childcare outside of our bubble, so someonw can look after the kids overnight to give us time to ourselves. 

I am starting to work on myself, and am reaching out to old friends, and have started exercising to lose some of this timber. We both used to be pretty healthy, but complacancy is a scary thing.

I still don't underatand why she feels the need to cheat, as our emotional connection has always been good. Physical can be hit and miss, maybe it'a a bedroom problem? She used to be open to trying new things, but not so much anymore. 

In regards to the marriage point, I haven't discussed it since, as I didn't want to harp on, as I never really felt the need to get married. I am still take aback that she said that she changed her mind, that to me is the biggest alarm bell.

Again, thanks for your thoughts guys. Please keep it coming, it is helping me work this out. 👍

[Will am I]

Your mentality is great. But one thing.

It is not always selfish to put yourself first. Sometimes it is even better for your partner if you do take good care of yourself.

Boundaries. Don’t shape yourself around your partner.

[S2B]

10 hours ago, Throwaway788 said:

Thanks for the thoughts guy, much appreciated.

It's been a couple of days now, amd although I do feel like her words are genuine, I don't see much action.. 

I'm the one who seems to be putting more effort in, video calling during the day, messaging her good morning texts, doing even more around the house, and still taking an interest in her job.

I don't want it to come across that i'm maybe just keeping an eye on her? Even though part of me is, as if she'a talking to me then she may be less inclines to talk to others? One of the reasons she gave me was because sometimes I would stay up too late playing games, and she'd be in bed alone. I've stopped that completely too. 

I don't see much from her end, and obviously she still has contact with that co worker. He's a manager above her in a different department, the way she describes it is that they don't cross paths that often. Rubbish though, as they must of done in order for this to happen.

Am I the a**h*** if I say she can't talk to him at all anymore? What if she has to talk to him due to work? How do I go asking for proof that she's stopped, when she deletes all messages between them? Idk

Again, thanks for the thoughts and repiles, I am taking all the advice on board. 

this isn’t the first time she’s done you wrong! Why are YOU making all the effort to fix this and she is still acting single?

how many times are you going to make more effort while she makes less?

she is acting like she’s single! She has kids she should be taking care of - but she’s not - instead she dumps the responsibility into you while she carves out more time for the gym, nights out etc. that’s maddening!

see if you can look at her phone bill. Any person deleting messages is still cheating! 

im uncertain why you keep trying to stay with her when she is creating more and more distance in the relationship.

stop bending and twisting to serve her needs - she’s cheating - and consider telling her to leave because YOU deserve to be with someone who treats you right!