Advice appreciated

[scorchio]

45 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

I mean, no offense, but if it’s that bad and so scary that as a full-grown man you have to be afraid of leaving your wife, and you need extra support, yeah, then it’s definitely time to leave. Like yesterday. But I don’t think he would still be there if it was that bad. He would’ve grabbed his kid and moved in with friends, extended fam, or parents, just to get out of there. And maybe he should have, after the Roomba incident. 

i have no family here, they all live in ireland (i’m in uk) . Wife is a very good mother , of that im sure but when she gets angry she says those things to him, it happend again today and again i asked her not to say those things in front of our son.  i have sent her an article on parental alienation syndrome after reading it on here . 

it honestly is that bad , but as i’ve learned since this all started i can take more abuse than i thought possible . neither of us are in a position to move out without selling our home . are you yourself divorced? was it an easy decision ? was it for the best? 

[scorchio]

43 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Yes, @mark clemson- and in this particular case, this is true for both. Her as well, because she’s undoubtedly dealt with her fair share of (emotional) abuse which she has been on the receiving end of - ie infidelity, and continued infidelity - ……so why both decide to stay is beyond me; it’s not for Love, admiration, respect, and affection apparently 

She wants our family to unit to be together and work i think it’s as simple as that . Today was an awful day though. 

[Alpacalia]

12 hours ago, scorchio said:

For our son , for the life we had. finances , the hope that things could get better, fear of the unknown , fear that divorce may be the biggest mistake of my life etc, probably for all the wrong reasons 

It seems like people stay in unhappy marriages for many reasons. However, if a miserable marriage causes infidelity, then it is time to take a good, hard look at what has happened and to deal with the situation as it exists.

Because right now what you seem to be trying to achieve is having the best of both worlds. 

There is on the one hand a woman that boosts your ego, satisfies you emotionally and a wife at home that’s running the household, seeing to the children, and keeping the family going.

This way you can live two lives. Separate lives that never cross paths.

I too wonder if there is something almost addictive about juggling your marital responsibilities and extramarital relationships.  Almost like getting a buzz from it.

What other reason could you give for choosing to live in a state of limbo and getting household appliances smashed over your head?

Why change a formula that works.

You can look at your infidelity as a passive-aggressive way of expressing everything that is stuck inside you, what is left unresolved between you and your wife. 

It is not going to matter what you ask your friends or search the Internet for, or what poll you ask strangers to cast, all that will not make a difference. This is less about which woman you should choose or which path you should follow, but rather what's behind the feelings of emptiness in your life. Neither your wife, nor a new partner, neither your children, can fill that hole for you, even if it might seem in the moment that your coworker is doing so for you.

The reason I say "in the moment" is because right now you're in a mindset in which you're comparing the two situations and deciding whether to stay with your wife or leave her. 

I hear that you really want an answer (a solution), but what is obvious from your posts is that you just aren’t ready to make this decision yet.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Alpacalia

[scorchio]

29 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

It seems like people stay in unhappy marriages for many reasons. However, if a miserable marriage causes infidelity, then it is time to take a good, hard look at what has happened and to deal with the situation as it exists.

Because right now what you seem to be trying to achieve is having the best of both worlds. 

There is on the one hand a woman that boosts your ego, satisfies you emotionally and a wife at home that’s running the household, seeing to the children, and keeping the family going.

This way you can live two lives. Separate lives that never cross paths.

I too wonder if there is something almost addictive about juggling your marital responsibilities and extramarital relationships.  Almost like getting a buzz from it.

What other reason could you give for choosing to live in a state of limbo and getting household appliances smashed over your head?

Why change a formula that works.

You can look at your infidelity as a passive-aggressive way of expressing everything that is stuck inside you, what is left unresolved between you and your wife. 

It is not going to matter what you ask your friends or search the Internet for, or what poll you ask strangers to cast, all that will not make a difference. This is less about which woman you should choose or which path you should follow, but rather what's behind the feelings of emptiness in your life. Neither your wife, nor a new partner, neither your children, can fill that hole for you, even if it might seem in the moment that your coworker is doing so for you.

The reason I say "in the moment" is because right now you're in a mindset in which you're comparing the two situations and deciding whether to stay with your wife or leave her. 

I hear that you really want an answer (a solution), but what is obvious from your posts is that you just aren’t ready to make this decision yet.

i do agree that the answers will not be found online, but i have been looking on so many different forums that i felt it could do no harm to post my own story.

this may sound strange but before the thing with co worker i was not overtly unhappy. We argued a lot for sure but as i’ve said previously we had a good lifestyle and got on well . we were happy. 

In hindsight i was definitely getting my emotional needs met outside my marriage, through normal friendships with my male friends until this thing with my co worker which i can now see was building for a while and then on a whole different level with her. why had i such strong feelings for her when things were ok in my marriage etc etc . and continue to have these feelings . 

this is why my head is totally scrambled . i have seen an extreme side to my wife (i’m sure will justifiably say the same about me). if she has reacted less dramatically or shown some signs of being less angry would that change things. 

its all my own doing and i’m aware i’m not doing all the things i should probably do but this also makes me question my feelings for my W. 

let me reiterate i sm

not looking for sympathy it to justify , i am just in absolute misery of my own making and don’t see it getting better if i stay or leave as things stand . so staying is probably easier despite the unhappiness, easier from the perspective of finances and being with my boy.  silly i know .

btw we both work full time and she earns more so not quite the traditional bread winner / homemaker scenario 

Edited October 1, 2022 by scorchio

[BrinnM]

4 hours ago, scorchio said:

are you yourself divorced? was it an easy decision ? was it for the best? 

No I’m not divorced. Never been married. Like I said, I’ve been on the other end of the situation. I don’t do committed relationships.
 

But yes, the married man did get divorced, with kids involved. But his wife was way more stable, with her own lucrative career, so it was probably easier for them, compared to your circumstances, but either way - far from “easy” generally speaking.

And they are only one of MANY, even countless couples I know who divorced with children involved, with or without (known) affairs, on either side. So it’s doable obviously. You just haven’t suffered enough maybe? 

[Amethyst68]

You're wife is behaving erratically in part because you are continuing to lie and gaslight her. Tell her the truth about the ongoing affair and she may take the decision to divorce. 

The violence needs to be addressed no matter what happens.

[scorchio]

6 hours ago, BrinnM said:

No I’m not divorced. Never been married. Like I said, I’ve been on the other end of the situation. I don’t do committed relationships.
 

But yes, the married man did get divorced, with kids involved. But his wife was way more stable, with her own lucrative career, so it was probably easier for them, compared to your circumstances, but either way - far from “easy” generally speaking.

And they are only one of MANY, even countless couples I know who divorced with children involved, with or without (known) affairs, on either side. So it’s doable obviously. You just haven’t suffered enough maybe? 

maybe so. i take it it didn’t work out with your married man. did he regret leaving his marriage? 

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, scorchio said:

Btw we both work full time and she earns more 

Why not get a second job? You'll be out of the house more away from the violence.

You could feel better about yourself and not feel so emasculated that sneaking around in this passive aggressive manner is somehow "getting even" for her ruling the roost with an iron fist.

You need to make some major changes before she does.

[scorchio]

12 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why not get a second job? You'll be out of the house more away from the violence.

You could feel better about yourself and not feel so emasculated that sneaking around in this passive aggressive manner is somehow "getting even" for her ruling the roost with an iron fist.

You need to make some major changes before she does.

i don’t feel emasculated , i’m very pleased she is doing well in her career as she works hard and deserves it . 

i don’t want a second job, my current one is busy enough that i barely get enough time with my son or leisure time as it is. 

the sneaking around is not about getting even and im not sure where that idea comes from 

[Wiseman2]

38 minutes ago, scorchio said:

 The sneaking around is not about getting even and im not sure where that idea comes from 

Perhaps I read wrong but you don't seem up to addressing anything head-on even though you claim she is abusive. Yet you're continuing this thing with the co-worker behind her back and claim your son is being poisoned against you.

Yet you are still chitchatting with the co-worker and even claiming that a "spiritual" therapist is "pro-divorce". Therefore it seems that a lot is going on but it's just getting worse with the inertia and denial.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Wiseman2

[scorchio]

16 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Perhaps I read wrong but you don't seem up to addressing anything head-on even though you claim she is abusive. Yet you're continuing this thing with the co-worker behind her back and claim your son is being poisoned against you.

Yet you are still chitchatting with the co-worker and even claiming that a "spiritual" therapist is "pro-divorce". Therefore it seems that a lot is going on but it's just getting worse with the inertia and denial.

it is getting worse or at least not getting better , although to be fair nothing physical has happened  since the vacuum incident . although she continues to say things around our son. but i’m not trying to “get even” as you put it.

That’s not the reason i’ve continued talking to co worker , it’s because of the depth of feelings and honestly , seeing and speaking with her is my only source of happiness at the moment , twisted as that may sound , but yes it’s also my inability  to deal with it or make a decision either way so you are correct about that part 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by scorchio

[RebeccaR]

You can’t expect to mend things with your wife while you’re still in an emotional affair. Your wife is responsible for her violent behavior, but you haven’t ended the affair so she’s rightfully still upset.

If you can’t end the emotional affair, you need to be honest with your wife. Going to the source of her pain for comfort isn’t helping. I know she doesn’t want a divorce, but it’s in her best interests if you can’t put the marriage first.

Right now the affair is balanced as you’re both still married. If you divorce it’s likely to end and perhaps you can’t give it up yet. You sound like you don’t want to be single but you can’t give up the affair - that’s why another comment referred to “cake eating”

Edited October 2, 2022 by RebeccaR
Additional information

[BrinnM]

6 hours ago, scorchio said:

did he regret leaving his marriage? 

Never. He’s much happier now.

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, RebeccaR said:

You can’t expect to mend things with your wife while you’re still in an emotional affair. Your wife is responsible for her violent behavior, but you haven’t ended the affair so she’s rightfully still upset.

If you can’t end the emotional affair, you need to be honest with your wife. Going to the source of her pain for comfort isn’t helping. I know she doesn’t want a divorce, but it’s in her best interests if you can’t put the marriage first.

Right now the affair is balanced as you’re both still married. If you divorce it’s likely to end and perhaps you can’t give it up yet. You sound like you don’t want to be single but you can’t give up the affair - that’s why another comment referred to “cake eating”

yes i’m certainly afraid of being single but other than that i just don’t know anymore . i’m all over the place . i know i should not be talking to the OW and the constant anger at home makes it even harder. 

[scorchio]

3 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Never. He’s much happier now.

can i ask the reasons he left or found you? was she abusive ? fallen out of love ? did he have children ?

[Alpacalia]

17 hours ago, scorchio said:

i do agree that the answers will not be found online, but i have been looking on so many different forums that i felt it could do no harm to post my own story.

this may sound strange but before the thing with co worker i was not overtly unhappy. We argued a lot for sure but as i’ve said previously we had a good lifestyle and got on well . we were happy. 

In hindsight i was definitely getting my emotional needs met outside my marriage, through normal friendships with my male friends until this thing with my co worker which i can now see was building for a while and then on a whole different level with her. why had i such strong feelings for her when things were ok in my marriage etc etc . and continue to have these feelings . 

this is why my head is totally scrambled . i have seen an extreme side to my wife (i’m sure will justifiably say the same about me). if she has reacted less dramatically or shown some signs of being less angry would that change things. 

its all my own doing and i’m aware i’m not doing all the things i should probably do but this also makes me question my feelings for my W. 

let me reiterate i sm

not looking for sympathy it to justify , i am just in absolute misery of my own making and don’t see it getting better if i stay or leave as things stand . so staying is probably easier despite the unhappiness, easier from the perspective of finances and being with my boy.  silly i know .

btw we both work full time and she earns more so not quite the traditional bread winner / homemaker scenario 

No matter how much I hate the idea of cheating, what would you do if you were free to be with your affair partner if they wanted to be with you? Would you say that you are in love with your affair partner or would you say that you are in love with your wife?

Or is it that you are in love with the emotional validation that your affair partner gives you.

You know that as things stand right now, the environment that your son is living in is not a good one for him. 

While your wife has acted out in response abusively, the cheating burden carries with it that of the innocent - and that is both wrong and abusive.

 

[spiritedaway2003]

The issue, while I know it's a struggle for you, is painfully obvious to an outsider.  DDay is often a traumatic event  but especially so for the BS, because they are only discovering that they've been lied to by someone they trust, for however long the affair was happening.  Depending on the couple, there are really only two possible outcomes: 1) a path towards reconciliation  or 2) divorce.

In your case, the fears you have are pretty normal and they are often enough to make people stay in a marriage.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay for any/all of the reasons:

• Loss of marriage (divorce).  Often times, this is initiated by the BS (regardless of gender) -- it gives them a form of control over a situation when the rugs have been pulled from under them.  Also, no one ever goes into a marriage hoping that it would fail.  
• Alienation with kids, depending on their age.  And what they view as reason for the divorce.
• Custody and not being able to see your kids as often (1/2 time isn't 100% time).
• Loss to your existing financial arrangement (it's never financially better, but you'd be better positioned if you're the higher income earner - which you're not).  
• Shame of that the marriage failed because you stepped out and all the related judgement from people you know and society.  
• Dealing with the loss of your OW, if deep feelings are there and emotional comfort, especially when things are not going well (a safety net, so to speak)
• A sense responsibility as a provider
• A sense of obligation to honor the marital vows, at all costs
• Lastly, fear of the future:  Are you afraid of being alone?  Is staying together even if you're unhappy better than being alone? 

The unusual dilemma for you is that you have made no decisions, even with a DDay.   Your wife is justifiably angry, though it does not excuse physically abusive behaviors, such as throwing things at you.  What is exacerbating the situation is that you're still in contact with your OW - does your wife know?   It sounds like your spouse wants to work on the marriage at the moment - not tolerating further communication with the OW is not an unreasonable request.  

The problem is that you're neither here nor there, so you're making an choice to torture both yourself and your wife ("cake eating" in the process).  My advice is to take an active approach to your own life -- make a decision to commit one way or the other, before the decision is made for you.  Either you decide you want to work on the marriage and you end things with the OW (yes, even if it means you finding a new job) or you get out of the marriage.   Examine the true reasons you're staying in it and the reasons you want to get out of it - which are workable?  Aside from the fears, do you love your wife?  Can you see yourself growing old together?  Life presents us with decisions - sometimes the available options are not what we wanted, but c'est la vie.  Pick one that you can live with and commit to it.

Edited October 2, 2022 by spiritedaway2003

[BrinnM]

@scorchioI think the situation of my ex and your situation aren’t comparable at all. They were both financially very stable, had an overall good relationship (no abuse or anything even remotely violent), as far as I know they’re still friendly to this day, and the kids were older (Highschool), etc. They got married very young & were successful as a couple. They could have saved the M, if he had tried a little harder. 
Your M seems to be very different, plus your W doesn’t appear to be willing to forgive you, and you know that. It’ll be bad for all three of you if you guys don’t end it. You’re home with her, but you want to be somewhere else. This won’t change. 

[glows]

1 hour ago, scorchio said:

yes i’m certainly afraid of being single but other than that i just don’t know anymore . i’m all over the place . i know i should not be talking to the OW and the constant anger at home makes it even harder. 

Should you decide to leave your abusive spouse, you’ll need support and not in the form of another cheating spouse in another dysfunctional marriage. Gain the support of a lawyer and therapists. You’re leaning on help from a layperson not equipped to help with the end/dissolution of your marriage. Find the proper help and leave. Start your life again. 

[scorchio]

54 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

The issue, while I know it's a struggle for you, is painfully obvious to an outsider.  DDay is often a traumatic event  but especially so for the BS, because they are only discovering that they've been lied to by someone they trust, for however long the affair was happening.  Depending on the couple, there are really only two possible outcomes: 1) a path towards reconciliation  or 2) divorce.

In your case, the fears you have are pretty normal and they are often enough to make people stay in a marriage.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to stay for any/all of the reasons:

• Loss of marriage (divorce).  Often times, this is initiated by the BS (regardless of gender) -- it gives them a form of control over a situation when the rugs have been pulled from under them.  Also, no one ever goes into a marriage hoping that it would fail.  
• Alienation with kids, depending on their age.  And what they view as reason for the divorce.
• Custody and not being able to see your kids as often (1/2 time isn't 100% time).
• Loss to your existing financial arrangement (it's never financially better, but you'd be better positioned if you're the higher income earner - which you're not).  
• Shame of that the marriage failed because you stepped out and all the related judgement from people you know and society.  
• Dealing with the loss of your OW, if deep feelings are there and emotional comfort, especially when things are not going well (a safety net, so to speak)
• A sense responsibility as a provider
• A sense of obligation to honor the marital vows, at all costs
• Lastly, fear of the future:  Are you afraid of being alone?  Is staying together even if you're unhappy better than being alone? 

The unusual dilemma for you is that you have made no decisions, even with a DDay.   Your wife is justifiably angry, though it does not excuse physically abusive behaviors, such as throwing things at you.  What is exacerbating the situation is that you're still in contact with your OW - does your wife know?   It sounds like your spouse wants to work on the marriage at the moment - not tolerating further communication with the OW is not an unreasonable request.  

The problem is that you're neither here nor there, so you're making an choice to torture both yourself and your wife ("cake eating" in the process).  My advice is to take an active approach to your own life -- make a decision to commit one way or the other, before the decision is made for you.  Either you decide you want to work on the marriage and you end things with the OW (yes, even if it means you finding a new job) or you get out of the marriage.   Examine the true reasons you're staying in it and the reasons you want to get out of it - which are workable?  Aside from the fears, do you love your wife?  Can you see yourself growing old together?  Life presents us with decisions - sometimes the available options are not what we wanted, but c'est la vie.  Pick one that you can live with and commit to it.

thanks for your comprehensive reply. 

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, Alpacalia said:

Would you say that you are in love with your affair partner or would you say that you are in love with your wife?

Or is it that you are in love with the emotional validation that your affair partner gives you.

 

i probably am in love with the AP , was not just the emotional validation . 

[RebeccaR]

How do you expect your marriage to continue successfully when you are in love with another woman?

 I think if your AP was willing to leave her partner for you, you’d do it. You’re holding back from divorce because your AP isn’t choosing you. Your wife is your backup plan. I’m pretty sure she realizes that and it’s why she’s so upset.

[scorchio]

6 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

How do you expect your marriage to continue successfully when you are in love with another woman?

 I think if your AP was willing to leave her partner for you, you’d do it. You’re holding back from divorce because your AP isn’t choosing you. Your wife is your backup plan. I’m pretty sure she realizes that and it’s why she’s so upset.

the answer is truthfully i have no idea . Wish i didn’t have these feelings for OW . 

[RebeccaR]

8 minutes ago, scorchio said:

the answer is truthfully i have no idea . Wish i didn’t have these feelings for OW . 

Ok, now we have a simpler, or at least a more common problem to solve. The part about your wife’s extreme and violent reaction, while still disturbing, is more understandable. Originally it seemed you were fully  remorseful and the affair was over. It turns out none of that was true.

You expect your wife to just accept that you see your AP at work every day. And you are still in love with the AP. You have said “sorry” but she correctly understands you are not really sorry.

[scorchio]

3 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Ok, now we have a simpler, or at least a more common problem to solve. The part about your wife’s extreme and violent reaction, while still disturbing, is more understandable. Originally it seemed you were fully  remorseful and the affair was over. It turns out none of that was true.

You expect your wife to just accept that you see your AP at work every day. And you are still in love with the AP. You have said “sorry” but she correctly understands you are not really sorry.

she isn't aware i still speak to her, nor of the depth of feelings . i am still talking with ow but nothing physical has or will happen. not that this makes it better . 

i am very sorry for the pain i’ve caused my wife but the reaction has been so extreme from the beginning that i don’t think anyone could bear it. her anger is based on the texts she found etc,  i don’t expect her to accept anything but i don’t want physical abuse or especially son caught up in this