Advice appreciated

[RebeccaR]

10 minutes ago, scorchio said:

yes all the time . every thing i do is a trigger and she has extreme reactions. if i leave the house she asks me who i have been kissing . if i like a friends photo on facebook i get accused of wanting to F*** them. she has always been a bit like this and of course my betrayal has impacted but it’s everyday and every little thing . she has been trying emdr amongst other things. 

Since you’ve already had an affair, it would be prudent to lay off the facebook likes with your female friends. That’s just common sense and a very mild consequence honestly 

[Will am I]

19 minutes ago, scorchio said:

she has always been a bit like this and of course my betrayal has impacted but it’s everyday and every little thing

Initially before the A it could have been either of two things: cultural differences regarding how people look upon cross gender friendships, and insecurity.

 

[glows]

45 minutes ago, scorchio said:

yes all the time . every thing i do is a trigger and she has extreme reactions. if i leave the house she asks me who i have been kissing . if i like a friends photo on facebook i get accused of wanting to F*** them. she has always been a bit like this and of course my betrayal has impacted but it’s everyday and every little thing . she has been trying emdr amongst other things. 

She’s still angry and it’s likely not going to change for awhile. You’re obviously not going to tell her if you’ve kissed anyone and she’s not expecting a confession from you. It’s her reminder about what a lousy husband you’ve been. How long are you both going to keep up the toxic charade that it’s not working? 

[mark clemson]

It's interesting that your wife wants to stay together and yet engages in behavior that would drive many men away.

You, too have engaged in behaviors that would drive many away. And yet she stays.

Consider (if you haven't already) that the affair may be a sort of emotional crutch that is making your very unpleasant marriage/home life more tolerable for you.

I suspect you already recognize this, but BTW affairs are NOT abuse (certainly not in the typical sense of the term within a relationship, ie. spousal abuse). Claiming that they are is distorted logic. There was no intent on your part to hurt your wife. This logic (someone got hurt therefore it's abuse) leads to abuse being a meaningless term, since anything that hurts/distresses someone can conveniently be labeled "abuse". The same cannot be said of the screaming, pointed questioning designed to make you feel (additional) guilt/shame, hitting, etc.

HOWEVER, abuse or not, your affair DID cause your wife very considerable emotional distress. And you are risking substantial ADDITIONAL distress to her by continuing the affair. So that is something you should be considering here.

It seems to me that, if little changes, you may be on the road to becoming one of those couples you sometimes encounter that scream/fight all the time but stay together anyhow.

[Will am I]

35 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

It's interesting that your wife wants to stay together and yet engages in behavior that would drive many men away.

Yes, I agree. She doesn’t seem very rational.
 

She has two rational options: either she can choose to stay (and do her best to make it work), or choose that she will not accept it and leave. However she seems to choose the “middle option” of bitterness without action.

The same indecision seems to apply to both sides in the marriage.

 

44 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

It seems to me that, if little changes, you may be on the road to becoming one of those couples you sometimes encounter that scream/fight all the time but stay together anyhow.

Totally.

[scorchio]

4 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

Since you’ve already had an affair, it would be prudent to lay off the facebook likes with your female friends. That’s just common sense and a very mild consequence honestly 

i’m sorry but it was totally innocent like of a friend celebrating her dads birthday . if i thought it was anything that could have caused yet more fighting i would not have done it for sure. She then accused me of wanting to sleep with that friend , and basically said i bet you have tried it on with her and every other female i’ve ever worked with. i don’t think that’s a justified reaction but maybe im wrong 

[scorchio]

4 hours ago, Will am I said:

Initially before the A it could have been either of two things: cultural differences regarding how people look upon cross gender friendships, and insecurity.

 

she is filipina, jealousy is a big thing in the culture according to what i’ve read since d day . She has always been super jealous.  

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

Yes, I agree. She doesn’t seem very rational.
 

She has two rational options: either she can choose to stay (and do her best to make it work), or choose that she will not accept it and leave. However she seems to choose the “middle option” of bitterness without action.

The same indecision seems to apply to both sides in the marriage.

 

Totally.

yes both stuck in indecision 

[RebeccaR]

18 minutes ago, scorchio said:

i’m sorry but it was totally innocent like of a friend celebrating her dads birthday . if i thought it was anything that could have caused yet more fighting i would not have done it for sure. She then accused me of wanting to sleep with that friend , and basically said i bet you have tried it on with her and every other female i’ve ever worked with. i don’t think that’s a justified reaction but maybe im wrong 

It was totally innocent, but given your history of infidelity, this is an area where you can accommodate her slightly. Also, in terms of jealousy? Now that you’ve had an affair, your wife certainly thinks that her jealousy was justified all along. And actually, she would be correct.

I don’t know how you get past this as a couple. 

[BrinnM]

26 minutes ago, scorchio said:

i don’t think that’s a justified reaction but maybe im wrong 

Yes, in this situation it apparently is. Especially combined with this 👇🏼

24 minutes ago, scorchio said:

she is filipina, jealousy is a big thing in the culture

———->> I’m not saying you’re provoking her on purpose, but it looks like she may feel that way. If you’re aware of this particular cultural difference, why not lay low on the interaction with female friends? (and the continued contact with OW, obvs) - I think you’re a little tone-deaf here. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by BrinnM

[Wiseman2]

56 minutes ago, scorchio said:

she is filipina, jealousy is a big thing in the culture according to what i’ve read since d day . She has always been super jealous.  

What does culture have to do with a wife being upset her husband is checked out, cheats and loves someone else?  Are there cultures where people do not "get jealous" when their spouse is checked out and obviously prefers the attention of others and cheats? Googling her 'culture and jealousy' seems a bit more like rationalizing and justifying the cheating because you are deciding to continue, but lay low.

[scorchio]

41 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

What does culture have to do with a wife being upset her husband is checked out, cheats and loves someone else?  Are there cultures where people do not "get jealous" when their spouse is checked out and obviously prefers the attention of others and cheats? Googling her 'culture and jealousy' seems a bit more like rationalizing and justifying the cheating because you are deciding to continue, but lay low.

no i’m just explaining that she has always been overly jealous and she never ever had any reason to be until this happened . googling something is not justification and i never said it was 

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, BrinnM said:

Yes, in this situation it apparently is. Especially combined with this 👇🏼

———->> I’m not saying you’re provoking her on purpose, but it looks like she may feel that way. If you’re aware of this particular cultural difference, why not lay low on the interaction with female friends? (and the continued contact with OW, obvs) - I think you’re a little tone-deaf here. 

well i’ve learned that lesson now for sure, too late but learned 

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, RebeccaR said:

It was totally innocent, but given your history of infidelity, this is an area where you can accommodate her slightly. Also, in terms of jealousy? Now that you’ve had an affair, your wife certainly thinks that her jealousy was justified all along. And actually, she would be correct.

I don’t know how you get past this as a couple. 

nor me mate 

[Alpacalia]

Disagree that affairs are NOT abusive.

It's referred to as betrayal trauma and it is a symptom of emotional abuse.

Certainly a level of gaslighting is involved to keep the affair secret, correct?

Doing something that can upset your partner is not necessarily 'abuse'.

You can't change the past, but why did you marry her if she was always like this? When did she start therapy? Before or after learning about the affair?

Edited October 5, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
remove quote with language

[scorchio]

2 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

Disagree that affairs are NOT abusive.

It's referred to as betrayal trauma and it is a symptom of emotional abuse.

Certainly a level of gaslighting is involved to keep the affair secret, correct?

Doing something that can upset your partner is not necessarily 'abuse'.

You can't change the past, but why did you marry her if she was always like this? When did she start therapy? Before or after learning about the affair?

after. She has always had a terrible temper and has admitted that it was “only with me” that she allowed herself to show it . 

Therapy only since finding out, she has tried several types. currently EMDR which  as far as i can see just makes her more volatile . 

look everyone , i know i am totally in the wrong here but believe it or not i would like to save the marriage but i don’t know how to stop or deal with her anger as it’s constant , every conversation gets brought with venom to affair . But she’s telling me tonight yet again that she wants out so we shall see. 

[BrinnM]

Well if she wants out then she has made the decision for you. And I am almost thinking that this is what you wanted anyway because you didn’t wanna make the decision for yourself.
 

If you want to see if the M can be saved and she does too (maybe she will change her mind) then I would take the advice that will.i.am has given. It was pretty valuable. You can’t be in touch anymore with the other woman. That’s step number one. 

[scorchio]

15 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

Well if she wants out then she has made the decision for you. And I am almost thinking that this is what you wanted anyway because you didn’t wanna make the decision for yourself.
 

If you want to see if the M can be saved and she does too (maybe she will change her mind) then I would take the advice that will.i.am has given. It was pretty valuable. You can’t be in touch anymore with the other woman. That’s step number one. 

yes it was good advice from him

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, scorchio said:

But she’s telling me tonight yet again that she wants out so we shall see. 

You need to let her go. For whatever reason she has anger and being with a checked out cheater who is just sitting in therapy daydreaming about his coworker is a sham anyway.

[Starswillshine]

Your wife is dealing with the consequences (aka trauma) of your betrayal. [ ] You have to now deal with the consequences of this too. 

I lost my mom at a young age, my high school boyfriend to a car accident, have been rapped, and none if that compares to the trauma I felt to finding texts on my husband's phone.

Edited October 4, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[mark clemson]

Forget about cultural stereotypes. There may be tacit acceptance of certain attitudes/behaviors, and possibly some real tendencies, but there are PLENTY of people who get jealous in ALL cultures, and there always will be for the foreseeable future. AND there are people who stay level-headed or will re-direct distress/disappointment in reasonably productive ways.

Edited October 3, 2022 by mark clemson

[Alpacalia]

6 hours ago, scorchio said:

 believe it or not i would like to save the marriage but i don’t know how to stop or deal with her anger as it’s constant , every conversation gets brought with venom to affair . But she’s telling me tonight yet again that she wants out so we shall see. 

An affair won't save your marriage.

Eventually, your wife will walk. It's just a matter of time.

Hope all goes well with your therapy.

[Amethyst68]

Quote

look everyone , i know i am totally in the wrong here but believe it or not i would like to save the marriage but i don’t know how to stop or deal with her anger as it’s constant , every conversation gets brought with venom to affair . 

Unbelievable hypocritical. You want to save your marriage but you're still actively cheating. 

 

You want her to stop talking about your affair while you are actively cheating with no indication of wanting to stop it! 

 

So you basically want her to stop and accept your behaviour while you continue having your affair with  your AP.

 

 

Maybe if you showed your wife some respect and told her the truth you might be able to at least start moving forward.  Your wife obviously knows you are trying to gaslight her. 

 

And for the record gas lighting is counted as abuse, you only need to check out domestic violence websites for confirmation! 

[Starswillshine]

Anger is a secondary emotion. Which means there is another emotion driving the anger. In this case, it is hurt. Your wife is hurt by your actions. 

After my xH's affair came our, I was ANGRY at him. How dare he do this to us? How dare he do this to our family? To our kids? Our future? Everything we worked so hard for and everything we planned? I was PISSED. But I was very hurt and traumatized. I often felt like a caged animal. When he left the house, I paced. And that anxiety of if he was talking to her just built up and built up, the panic, the fear.... so when he walked in the door, I unleashed. I needed to. He didn't give me the option if I wanted to be hurt, he just hurt me. So I did not care if he wanted to deal with my wrath or not, he was going to. Of course, he always had the option to leave. He would say, "I wish you would just move on from this." 1- that would typically send me into another rage fit. 2- I would remind him, he was free to seek an attorney and file the papers. But if he wanted our marriage, he was going to have to let me get my anger out. And I did. Until I could not handle myself any longer- and I divorced him. Because I hated who I became. And because the man who I promised my life to, the man who I put my heart into his hands.... he crushed and shattered it, and how dare he just gets to stay married to me. To ME!!! I am an amazing woman, I deserved better. 

I did not deserve to have my life thrown into a paper shredder. I did not deserve to have to run to the restroom to vomit the moment he touch me because it gave me flashes of him touching her. I did not deserve to deal with the humiliation of being a married woman of 20 years going to my doctor and asking for a full STD panel. I did not deserve having to pay many thousands of dollars to learn how to deal with the trauma, the triggers, the PTSD (yes, it actually happens), etc. 

But most of all, my children did not deserve any of this. They did not deserve how he risked their life/their home life/their family. They did not deserve their lives to get upended. They did not deserve to have their mom go from always there to barely able to get out of bed for a year straight. 

No- how dare he put me, how dare he put them, in that position. So yeah. He was going to hear about it. And then I left his sorry, cheating rear. And we all went on to live a much happier life. 

If you really want to save your marriage, you have to start acting like it. Was it really important to you to tell this girl happy birthday? Think about it this way- why do you feel the need to wish this person happy birthday? Is that more important than the pain, the trigger it might cause your wife? In every interaction you have with opposite sex people, you must ask yourself what purpose does it serve and is it more important than hurting her. You need to have extreme boundaries now as you previously exhibited that you don't. You need to find a new job. Full stop. If you want to stay married, you need to consider what this is doing to her... that you see this woman every day. And absolutely, you need to never speak to this other woman ever again. 

And that's just the start of trying to save your marriage. Saying it and doing it are two different things. 

Read the "How to help your spouse heal from your Affair" article/pdf file. May be slightly different name... but close. And start actually trying to save it. You *may* (and I say may) start to see a difference in your wife. But right now, you are only making things worse. 

[scorchio]

8 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Anger is a secondary emotion. Which means there is another emotion driving the anger. In this case, it is hurt. Your wife is hurt by your actions. 

After my xH's affair came our, I was ANGRY at him. How dare he do this to us? How dare he do this to our family? To our kids? Our future? Everything we worked so hard for and everything we planned? I was PISSED. But I was very hurt and traumatized. I often felt like a caged animal. When he left the house, I paced. And that anxiety of if he was talking to her just built up and built up, the panic, the fear.... so when he walked in the door, I unleashed. I needed to. He didn't give me the option if I wanted to be hurt, he just hurt me. So I did not care if he wanted to deal with my wrath or not, he was going to. Of course, he always had the option to leave. He would say, "I wish you would just move on from this." 1- that would typically send me into another rage fit. 2- I would remind him, he was free to seek an attorney and file the papers. But if he wanted our marriage, he was going to have to let me get my anger out. And I did. Until I could not handle myself any longer- and I divorced him. Because I hated who I became. And because the man who I promised my life to, the man who I put my heart into his hands.... he crushed and shattered it, and how dare he just gets to stay married to me. To ME!!! I am an amazing woman, I deserved better. 

I did not deserve to have my life thrown into a paper shredder. I did not deserve to have to run to the restroom to vomit the moment he touch me because it gave me flashes of him touching her. I did not deserve to deal with the humiliation of being a married woman of 20 years going to my doctor and asking for a full STD panel. I did not deserve having to pay many thousands of dollars to learn how to deal with the trauma, the triggers, the PTSD (yes, it actually happens), etc. 

But most of all, my children did not deserve any of this. They did not deserve how he risked their life/their home life/their family. They did not deserve their lives to get upended. They did not deserve to have their mom go from always there to barely able to get out of bed for a year straight. 

No- how dare he put me, how dare he put them, in that position. So yeah. He was going to hear about it. And then I left his sorry, cheating rear. And we all went on to live a much happier life. 

If you really want to save your marriage, you have to start acting like it. Was it really important to you to tell this girl happy birthday? Think about it this way- why do you feel the need to wish this person happy birthday? Is that more important than the pain, the trigger it might cause your wife? In every interaction you have with opposite sex people, you must ask yourself what purpose does it serve and is it more important than hurting her. You need to have extreme boundaries now as you previously exhibited that you don't. You need to find a new job. Full stop. If you want to stay married, you need to consider what this is doing to her... that you see this woman every day. And absolutely, you need to never speak to this other woman ever again. 

And that's just the start of trying to save your marriage. Saying it and doing it are two different things. 

Read the "How to help your spouse heal from your Affair" article/pdf file. May be slightly different name... but close. And start actually trying to save it. You *may* (and I say may) start to see a difference in your wife. But right now, you are only making things worse. 

thanks for sharing your story . Can i ask why you eventually left?