Advice appreciated

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

In abuse cases marriage counselling is contraindicated. However it could help you unpack and sort some things out. This affair was a symptom a systemic marital problems.

Just learned a new word, thanks Wise. 

Totally agree. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by poppyfields

[scorchio]

29 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

These are excuses, I think you know that too.  

Most people with second jobs have another full time job. 

My dad who earned a very good living as a lawyer, began working weekends in real estate after he left.

Stop allowing your wife to run the show and drive your ship.

You do NOT need her permission to accept a loan from your dad and get the hell out, away from her abuse and your toxic relationship.

I would advise permanently.

Because she's abusive, you may even be awarded custody of your son.

Anyway, I'm getting a bit wound up now so will leave this thread and wish you the best. 

thanks for your advice, it’s appreciated 

[scorchio]

23 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The first thing do do is stop rationalizing. "It's because I was lonely", "It's because it's cultural",  "It's because I never really loved her", "It's worse if is physical or this or that" etc. etc. What than means is you are still not accepting responsibility. For yourself or your son.  Your wife admits to being angry and abusive.

On another note, you have plenty of help to leave. A "trial separation" is a bad idea. It implies that you'll abandon the marriage to play around. Plus at some level she senses and  knows you were never in with both feet and just coasting along out of convenience. It's sad she was rifling through your phone to try to figure out why you're so checked out.

In abuse cases marriage counselling is contraindicated. However it could help you unpack and sort some things out. This affair was a symptom a systemic marital problems.

contraindicated - also a new one for me . oh i defo am taking responsibility . i knew what i was doing and no one forced me to do anything i didn’t want to of course. i’m probably overthinking it. 

Plenty of help to leave? 

[Alpacalia]

6 hours ago, Will am I said:

That’s what OP’s wife seems to keep bumping into. Unwilling or unable to let go of the past. Not moving forward. Stuck.

 

This, exactly.

This is what the betrayed partner must understand. That despite she’s not the one who caused the problem, her participation is needed if she wants to keep the marriage. It’s either that, or divorce.

Agree.

I do, however, believe that the two of you need to separate for some time. There isn't an easy fix for this. The environment is too toxic for either of you to think or breathe. Your children will bear the brunt of this.

Your partner has every right to be repulsed by your actions. If you need to be with others, let your partner go. 

[BrinnM]

While this sounds very toxic, I can totally relate to the OP’s wife. Also - she certainly knows that he is still in touch with OW one way or the other and I am sure she can sense that he has strong feelings for the other woman as well.
 

It’s tough enough to be confronted with an affair even if contact is completely broken off between WH and OW, but in this scenario it sounds like it’s hard & even hell for her. This makes people go berserk for sure. If the W stays, it’s only going to be because she has to, maybe because she’s afraid to lose her standard of living. In the long run, I don’t see this working out at all. 

[Weezy1973]

47 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

This makes people go berserk for sure.

No, not for sure. There is a separation between feelings and actions. The OPs wide sounds like she comes from a toxic family and so responds in a toxic manner. Violence is never something that is understandable, especially in the presence of a young child. As adults we have control over our behaviors. 
 

OP, the number one priority right now is you son and to get him away from your toxic wife as long as she is abusive. The affair / divorce conversation can happen after you make sure he’s on a safe place. 

[scorchio]

45 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

While this sounds very toxic, I can totally relate to the OP’s wife. Also - she certainly knows that he is still in touch with OW one way or the other and I am sure she can sense that he has strong feelings for the other woman as well.
 

It’s tough enough to be confronted with an affair even if contact is completely broken off between WH and OW, but in this scenario it sounds like it’s hard & even hell for her. This makes people go berserk for sure. If the W stays, it’s only going to be because she has to, maybe because she’s afraid to lose her standard of living. In the long run, I don’t see this working out at all. 

thanks for your honest reply . 

[scorchio]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

No, not for sure. There is a separation between feelings and actions. The OPs wide sounds like she comes from a toxic family and so responds in a toxic manner. Violence is never something that is understandable, especially in the presence of a young child. As adults we have control over our behaviors. 
 

OP, the number one priority right now is you son and to get him away from your toxic wife as long as she is abusive. The affair / divorce conversation can happen after you make sure he’s on a safe place. 

i think if i’m not around then hopefully there is no toxicity for our son to witness but that just not feasible at the moment  . i don’t want to take him away from her as that would kill her. 

[glows]

Speak to a lawyer privately. Family members like your dad are part of your emotional support but I caution about unloading your issues and troubles on others. He will want to help but end up meddling too far in or assuming he has a say in how to proceed. 

You had the affair because you couldn’t face the crumbling marriage. It was avoidant in the same way facing the end of the marriage is still being avoided. The real people you ought to be speaking to is a lawyer to get the details and facts straight and what it takes to get out of the marriage and stand on your own if you don’t want to be with your wife. People who have affairs I noticed tend to skirt around this issue and want their cake and eat it too so to speak. Won’t leave the marriage, don’t want it either or want to be with others. 

Regardless of what happens you are still a father so speak to lawyer. You have the rest of your life to live. Think of all your options carefully with appropriate legal advice, not just family members, laypeople and friends in your ear. 

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, scorchio said:

 i have asked her many many times not to argue in front of our boy. she has admitted that she knows it’s not right and feels guilty but just cannot help it when she gets angry .

This isn't true. Does she scream at her boss when she's frustrated about something at work?

If there's to be any hope, she would NEED to learn ways to re-channel her anger into something less destructive, and stop her false belief that venting on you (and your kid indirectly, e.g. by badmouthing you to him) is somehow OK.

[Alpacalia]

No more can you force her into changing her behavior than she could have prevented yours. 

While your wife clearly (and understandably) wants to punish you, nobody deserves abuse, no matter what the reason. It's time to end the relationship. Period. There’s nothing left of it. Neither of you are happy and haven't been for a long time. Take whatever steps you need to take to leave as soon as possible.

After you leave, reflect on what you really want from a relationship-or whether you even want one. Wanting and having multiple partners is fine when you’re honest about not committing entirely to any of them.

[scorchio]

2 hours ago, glows said:

Speak to a lawyer privately. Family members like your dad are part of your emotional support but I caution about unloading your issues and troubles on others. He will want to help but end up meddling too far in or assuming he has a say in how to proceed. 

You had the affair because you couldn’t face the crumbling marriage. It was avoidant in the same way facing the end of the marriage is still being avoided. The real people you ought to be speaking to is a lawyer to get the details and facts straight and what it takes to get out of the marriage and stand on your own if you don’t want to be with your wife. People who have affairs I noticed tend to skirt around this issue and want their cake and eat it too so to speak. Won’t leave the marriage, don’t want it either or want to be with others. 

Regardless of what happens you are still a father so speak to lawyer. You have the rest of your life to live. Think of all your options carefully with appropriate legal advice, not just family members, laypeople and friends in your ear. 

i would never have told my parents but my wife went ahead and told them and my sister and any number of other i people, my parents are very fond of her and very sad over the whole thing of course . 

[ExpatInItaly]

This marriage is over. 

I don't see any coming back from this one, and it's incredibly damaging to your son. I would start working on a plan to divorce and raise him as co-parents who can respect each other as such, but are not in an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage anymore. 

 

[Will am I]

6 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

The OPs wide sounds like she comes from a toxic family and so responds in a toxic manner.

Relatable. My wife was like that in the early years of our relationship.

She could get violent when she got stuck in expressing her emotion, in particular when I wouldn’t agree on her point of view. To her my disagreement must have felt like I wasn’t listening and she could get so frustrated that she’d be abusive.

The confusion between listening and agreeing is probably something she learned from her mom.

It took maybe two or three years to leave this behind us. I guess the patterns must be stronger in OP’s marriage.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, scorchio said:

i would never have told my parents but my wife went ahead and told them and my sister and any number of other i people, my parents are very fond of her and very sad over the whole thing of course . 

Yes. That's the scorched earth approach.

Sadly right now you're driving around with flames coming out of the tailpipe telling yourself "it just needs an oil change". Until of course the vehicle blows up on the highway.

You seem to be hoping it all goes away so you can save money and you're at the same time exaggerating and catastrophizing this such as the financial and custody impact.

People get divorced every day. Especially before affairs and throwing objects at each other.

You need to let go for your child's sake, not just lie low until your next affair or the next time she hurls something at you.

 

[salparadise]

16 hours ago, scorchio said:

if and when we do split up i would want each of  us to be in our sons life as much as possible regardless , he is everything to us both . but i do see where you are coming from and i need to make some big decisions soon clearly . 

Yes, I understand that you don't want to deny her access to your son... but you mentioned somewhere else that she may be trying to harm his relationship with you by painting you as evil. This is called parental alienation syndrome (PAS) and it's real, and very harmful. It most often occurs in situations like yours, and it's almost always the wife alienating kids against the husband. It happened to one of my family members. You need to be aware of it and prevent it from the earliest stages.

Getting custody initially does not mean denying her access, it means that you get to make decisions and won't be denied access yourself. Even if you don't pursue assault charges, it would be a good idea for you to get this vacuum cleaner attack on the record, both for the custody situation and the divorce. The danger is that she and her lawyer might try to portray you as the abuser and unfit parent. You can always back off once you've got the facts into evidence, but if you let them get the upper hand you could end up begging her for visitation while she's turning the son against you.

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, scorchio said:

  . i don’t want to take him away from her as that would kill her. 

That's not going to happen.  Courts decide what's in the child's best interest, not the warring parents.

However you need to get appropriate advice from an attorney about your specific situation. 

Keep in mind that when both parents use the scorched earth approach to demonize each other it's in no one's best interest.

[Will am I]

File reports for each incident. Not because you want to, but because your wife likely will start all kinds of allegations. Having some records to show your side of things might be vital in the custody and visitation case.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, scorchio said:

i don’t want to take him away from her as that would kill her. 

You don't have to, need to nor will be able to. If you divorce, the courts will decide on custody/visitation. I would not recommend smearing her for manipulation of this. Right now focus on how to deescalate this and what your course of action needs to be taken to best provide a better environment for yourself and your child. She as well can not keep him from you. Please do not use a child in a tug-of-war or adult power struggle.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Wiseman2

[scorchio]

25 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

 Please do not use a child in a tug-of-war or adult power struggle.

that’s the last thing i would ever want to happen

[FMW]

Talk to an attorney and get competent legal advice on what custody might look like and what you need to do to prepare.

Your emotional attachment (and kiss) with another woman is very damaging to your marriage and painful for your wife, as you know.  Maybe it did happen because of what was missing from your marriage.  But the thing to have done when you started feeling the temptation, instead of acting on it,  is to have talked with your wife to see if things could change or to tell her you wanted a divorce.

My husband cheated on me, repeatedly.  I didn't give him what he needed, emotionally, so he sought it in other women.  I actually did understand how it came about.  But the issue I had a harder time understanding was the lack of communication about it, the betrayal.  I was angry and hurt but would have never contemplated physically or even verbally assaulting him.  There is no justification for that.  And for that to be taking place in your home in front of your child is unacceptable and irresponsible. 

It doesn't sound like your marriage can be a good place for either you and your wife, or your child.  

Divorce is hard, even without children, and I can only imagine how much more gut-wrenching it is with a child.  But again, see an attorney.  I know in my area there is a law firm that specializes in representing only men in divorces.  They are well-positioned to help protect the husband/father's rights.  See if something like that is available in your area. The Court will make custody decisions based on the best interest of the child, but proper representation can help you even so.   

 

[glows]

10 hours ago, scorchio said:

i would never have told my parents but my wife went ahead and told them and my sister and any number of other i people, my parents are very fond of her and very sad over the whole thing of course . 

This is besides the point. Speak with a lawyer. Even if you don’t divorce her you should know what’s expected in the event of separation, divorce and custody. Don’t get lost in the sadness of it or get stuck looking at old events. Look forwards. 

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, glows said:

This is besides the point. Speak with a lawyer. Even if you don’t divorce her you should know what’s expected in the event of separation, divorce and custody. Don’t get lost in the sadness of it or get stuck looking at old events. Look forwards. 

good advice 

[BrinnM]

1 hour ago, scorchio said:

good advice 

Yup. Especially because there doesn’t seem to be any true effort on your part to wholeheartedly end the A. Plus, ofc her abusive behavior and how it’ll affect the child. 

[Starswillshine]

Part of why I decided to divorce my ex-husband is bc I became just like the OP's wife. I wasn't physically abusive, though I threw a few things (never at him) but the daily questioning and fighting was for sure an aspect. His affair really shook me to my core and changed everything in me. Broken was an understatement. I was a whole different person. I didn't recognize myself. I would go from pure rage and anger to fear and crying, sobbing mess on the floor. When he would leave the house, I would spend the entire time in pure panic. Who was he calling, where was he going, etc... and his OW lived in a different country. I don't know what would have happened to me if he worked with her. 

OP, you seem to be angered about your wife telling people. This is part of her story now. You didn't give her that choice, so it is now HER business to share. So people know... and it is YOUR fault. 

You are still in this affair. You are still in contact. You still see her. You still speak to her. You still speak to her about feelings. About the affair.... you are driving your wife insane. 

Given how you speak about your wife, the kindest thing you could do is probably seek a divorce. It felt like my world broke apart, i had pure panic attacks daily where i was unsure if it was a geart attack or panic, and I was very suicidal for a while. (He seriously held control of my anxiety meds and gave me one a day for fear I would take them all.) It took many thousands of dollars of therapy... BUT... his affair(s) ended up being the best thing to ever happen. Because it put me on the path to living my best life. To being a true version of myself. To pushing myself to becoming a stronger, independent woman and put me on the path with a new person who loves me for who I am and respects and understands me. We are planning our wedding now....