Advice appreciated

[scorchio]

5 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Part of why I decided to divorce my ex-husband is bc I became just like the OP's wife. I wasn't physically abusive, though I threw a few things (never at him) but the daily questioning and fighting was for sure an aspect. His affair really shook me to my core and changed everything in me. Broken was an understatement. I was a whole different person. I didn't recognize myself. I would go from pure rage and anger to fear and crying, sobbing mess on the floor. When he would leave the house, I would spend the entire time in pure panic. Who was he calling, where was he going, etc... and his OW lived in a different country. I don't know what would have happened to me if he worked with her. 

OP, you seem to be angered about your wife telling people. This is part of her story now. You didn't give her that choice, so it is now HER business to share. So people know... and it is YOUR fault. 

You are still in this affair. You are still in contact. You still see her. You still speak to her. You still speak to her about feelings. About the affair.... you are driving your wife insane. 

Given how you speak about your wife, the kindest thing you could do is probably seek a divorce. It felt like my world broke apart, i had pure panic attacks daily where i was unsure if it was a geart attack or panic, and I was very suicidal for a while. (He seriously held control of my anxiety meds and gave me one a day for fear I would take them all.) It took many thousands of dollars of therapy... BUT... his affair(s) ended up being the best thing to ever happen. Because it put me on the path to living my best life. To being a true version of myself. To pushing myself to becoming a stronger, independent woman and put me on the path with a new person who loves me for who I am and respects and understands me. We are planning our wedding now.... 

good to hear that things worked out for you 

[pepperbird2]

On 9/17/2022 at 1:45 PM, scorchio said:

yes just a kiss and inappropriate text messages which was how she found out. 

min all honesty no i have not done all of those things , leaving my job , giving full access to phones email etc (as i said before she did this several times before for no reason what do ever and i found it incredibly intrusive)  and the fact that i wasn’t willing to do these things straight away is a red flag in my own mind that i’m not 100 percent committed , this is why i’m so conflicted and unhappy . 

Actually, it turns out, she had every reason to not trust you. Her "intrusive" behaviour turned out to be spot on, no?

At any rate, you have both abused each other badly. I' not sure if she can every trust you again, and she has no right to physically attack you or run you down to your child.  I don't like to suggest divorce, but maybe in your case, it's what's needed?

I'd also suggest you engage in a little introspection. You use the old chestnut of "I didn't realize it was happeneing" to sort of rationalize your affair, but then at the same time, list off the reasons why you are unhappy and looked outside your marriage.

Which is it?

 

There's no shame in not wanting to be committed to someone, just so long as you are honest about it.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by pepperbird2

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

Actually, it turns out, she had every reason to not trust you. Her "intrusive" behaviour turned out to be spot on, no?

At any rate, you have both abused each other badly. I' not sure if she can every trust you again, and she has no right to physically attack you or run you down to your child.  I don't like to suggest divorce, but maybe in your case, it's what's needed?

I'd also suggest you engage in a little introspection. You use the old chestnut of "I didn't realize it was happeneing" to sort of rationalize your affair, but then at the same time, list off the reasons why you are unhappy and looked outside your marriage.

Which is it?

 

There's no shame in not wanting to be committed to someone, just so long as you are honest about it.

 

well to be perfectly honest she had no reason not to trust me for the first 11 years. 

believe it or not i did not go out looking to cheat on her but yes it was obviously my choice to let it get to where it did once it started with my co worker , i absolutely take full responsibility for that . 

[Amethyst68]

First of abuse is never acceptable!

I'm curious about the fact nobody is addressing the fact OP is still cheating.... apparently the physical aspect has stopped (doubtful)  but the EA is still ongoing. 

OP is still talking to AP and they're discussing their marriages and spouses so contact is definitely not just business. 

OP, the average recovery time for affairs is 2-5 YEARS and that's when the affair is actually over and the WS remorseful and you're nowhere near there. There's maybe regret (different from remorse) and definitely resentment! Your wife obviously knows nothing's really changed on your  part and she's right - you're gaslighting the hello out of her.

The abuse part needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.  I would never recommend anyone staying in these circumstances.

[BrinnM]

47 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said:

curious about the fact nobody is addressing the fact OP is still cheating....

It has been addressed, by myself, and others. But @scorchiowon’t comment on that one. It would definitely be worth discussing, IMO.

[scorchio]

14 minutes ago, BrinnM said:

It has been addressed, by myself, and others. But @scorchiowon’t comment on that one. It would definitely be worth discussing, IMO.

happy to address it. nothing physical going on but yes have continued talking to her at work, which i guess qualifies as cheating , we did try no contact  it’s all very complicated. and yes i know it’s wrong of me to carry on.  it’s been so bad at home that work is my only refuge. i realise i have ruined the marriage too

Both wife and i are very unhappy . i know it seems easy to say just divorce then but  it’s really not that simple is it even if it’s for the best . 

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

 

OP, the average recovery time for affairs is 2-5 YEARS and that's when the affair is actually over and the WS remorseful and you're nowhere near there. There's maybe regret (different from remorse) and definitely resentment! Your wife obviously knows nothing's really changed on your  part and she's right - you're gaslighting the hello out of her.

it’s hard to convey on here just how extreme her reaction has been . Of course she has every right to be angry and even enraged, but it’s practically 24/7 and i’m struggling to deal with that , perhaps that makes me weak or a coward . Someone posted earlier that she most likely despises /hates me and i have asked her this. 

no i don’t deserve sympathy and that’s not why i came on here. i really just wanted to know if anyone had been through similar and get some perspectives from outside . 

[Amethyst68]

1 minute ago, scorchio said:

it’s hard to convey on here just how extreme her reaction has been . Of course she has every right to be angry and even enraged, but it’s practically 24/7 and i’m struggling to deal with that , perhaps that makes me weak or a coward . Someone posted earlier that she most likely despises /hates me and i have asked her this. 

no i don’t deserve sympathy and that’s not why i came on here. i really just wanted to know if anyone had been through similar and get some perspectives from outside . 

But you come on here giving the impression you've stopped cheating and your wife is delusional when the truth is the exact opposite! Stop gaslighting her, you want her to accept something that you're actively lying about, she's not stupid and obviously knows you better than you want her to!

[scorchio]

2 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said:

But you come on here giving the impression you've stopped cheating and your wife is delusional when the truth is the exact opposite! Stop gaslighting her, you want her to accept something that you're actively lying about, she's not stupid and obviously knows you better than you want her to!

not sure that’s the impression i gave but maybe so . it’s not that she’s delusional and im not telling her she is. 

[Alpacalia]

Your cake-eating is inappropriate.

The actions you take are disrespectful toward your wife and the other woman as well, regardless of her ethical shortcomings.

You're walking a tightrope, that's the bad news.

I'm afraid you'll fall flat on your face with this one.

[scorchio]

1 minute ago, Alpacalia said:

Your cake-eating is inappropriate.

The actions you take are disrespectful toward your wife and the other woman as well, regardless of her ethical shortcomings.

You're walking a tightrope, that's the bad news.

I'm afraid you'll fall flat on your face with this one.

am i cake eating ?i’ve never been as unhappy. 

 genuinely interested to hear how my actions are disrespectful towards OW though. 

[Alpacalia]

1 minute ago, scorchio said:

am i cake eating ?i’ve never been as unhappy. 

 genuinely interested to hear how my actions are disrespectful towards OW though. 

Who cares how.

You're unhappy.

Wouldn't it be better if you just divorced?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Alpacalia

[scorchio]

1 minute ago, Alpacalia said:

Who cares how.

You're unhappy.

Wouldn't it be better if you just divorced?

i care , else i wouldn’t have asked you. so i’d be obliged if you told me 

[mark clemson]

While I do understand your wife's insistence that your end communication, just talking to someone doesn't constitute an affair or continuing one.

Is the talking romantic/emotional or more necessary work-related communication only?

The above said, it's quite understandable if your wife very strongly prefers you end ALL contact with her, as she (correctly) feels contact with this woman is a genuine potential threat to your marriage.

It's ALSO true that your wife's current behavior is genuinely a potential threat to your marriage as well.

Additionally, the degree to which you may be "triggering" your wife does NOT justify her abuse or escalation of abuse. Apply this logic to a woman leaving an abusive husband - does the fact she is leaving justify increased abuse from him (due to her leaving triggering his anger/insecurity)? Of course not. How about the speed at which you were going when you cut off another driver? If it was over 60 MPH or they were in a particularly bad mood that day, does it "justify" a road-rage murder? It's patently ridiculous.

Unless they were actually, legally, driven insane, people are responsible for their actions regardless of their emotional state. Take that away and society can start to break down quite quickly.

Edited September 30, 2022 by mark clemson

[scorchio]

5 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

 

Is the talking romantic/emotional or more necessary work-related communication only?

some good analogies there Mark. 

 

no   the truth is that we have be talking about how our lives have been turned upside down since my wife found out (and informed her partner). so therefore definitely in the wrong even though there has been nothing physical we are both finding it impossible to switch off the feelings which from my end has been exacerbated by how things have been at home, vicious circle 

[mark clemson]

^^ fair enough + I'm sure it's no fun having your life turned upside down. Those are the risks one takes in an affair.

I think it's fair to say that the affair is continuing at some level. You seem to feel it is.

I think if you really want to save your marriage, you need to look at cutting this off completely. I'd say that's first, and then look into whether your wife is capable of (or interested in) "coming back from this" and/or getting herself under control. Otherwise any steps your wife does take are "at risk."

Things may not pan out well anyhow, but I think that's the risk you have to take (again, assuming you're interested in reconciling with your wife, if you've decided you're not then that is another matter).

The feelings are not really justification for continuing the affair, particularly if your wife knows or suspects and it's causing her additional distress. The "emotions can't be an excuse" aspect has to work both ways.

I guess the exception would be IF you've decided (or are very seriously thinking) to end things with your wife, since IF that's the case it won't be an issue for very long.

Edited October 1, 2022 by mark clemson

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, scorchio said:

i care , else i wouldn’t have asked you. so i’d be obliged if you told me 

Because it's not important.

The bigger picture here is your unhappiness and your wife's unhappiness. 

Why do you want to stay married to your wife? There is a reason why you want to stay married to her. Why are you still married, in reality? What is it that really keeps you together?

 

[scorchio]

5 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

 

Why do you want to stay married to your wife? There is a reason why you want to stay married to her. Why are you still married, in reality? What is it that really keeps you together?

 

For our son , for the life we had. finances , the hope that things could get better, fear of the unknown , fear that divorce may be the biggest mistake of my life etc, probably for all the wrong reasons 

[Will am I]

10 hours ago, scorchio said:

 

 genuinely interested to hear how my actions are disrespectful towards OW though. 

Sinple answer: Because she too deserves a partner who’s committed to her.

 

Now there is a gray area. Sometimes it’s crystal clear, a married man leading his OW to believe that he’s on the very brink of a divorce while in fact he has no such plans. The OW loses years of her life, potentially even her chance at her own family, because she’s kept on a leash.

Other situations aren’t as clear. Some OW are seemingly OK with their role and not so interested in stepping up to be the “first lady”. My xOW was like that. 

But I believe that even in those cases the OW is not treated as she should be. Women who willfully opt to be an OW are all tol often damaged women. Lingering in the affair fulfills some desire for intimacy, but at the same time holds the woman back from seeking healing for her wounds.

[Will am I]

8 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 

I think if you really want to save your marriage, you need to look at cutting this off completely. I'd say that's first, and then look into whether your wife is capable of (or interested in) "coming back from this" and/or getting herself under control

 

It all starts with the italic “if”.

Lots of things have happened. The prelude leading into straying into the affair, the affair itself, the reaction of the spouse.

Each one of these things is constitutional to your motivation. There were concerns about compatibility and behavioral patterns before, then there was the realization that OW (and maybe others too) would care for you and there would be different options than your current spouse. And finally there were hurtful events and expressions after the affair came out.

It is very well possible that staying in the marriage has become an act driven by duty, discipline, expectations, maybe fear of divorce. 

Imagine you could rewind the clock and not have the affair. Erase its effects. But keep the lessons learned in uour heart. Would you get married again? To the same spouse?

[Wiseman2]

On 9/17/2022 at 7:30 AM, scorchio said:

 . yes worried about how it affecting son. he is nearly 4 and has heard way too much 

Why not get appropriate legal advice? It's better than sneaking around and getting a Roomba smashed over your head. Most of all, think about your son. You don't love or respect your wife and she's on a rampage.

How is this limbo hell good for any of you? This has already come to a head and it's going to get a lot worse the longer you keep your head in the sand.

[scorchio]

1 hour ago, Will am I said:

Sinple answer: Because she too deserves a partner who’s committed to her.

 

Now there is a gray area. Sometimes it’s crystal clear, a married man leading his OW to believe that he’s on the very brink of a divorce while in fact he has no such plans. The OW loses years of her life, potentially even her chance at her own family, because she’s kept on a leash.

She herself has a long term partner and young child . in fact she is less likely to leave her relationship than me. She has been unhappy for years but has similar fears to me about leaving. Her partner has reacted differently to mine when he found out in so far that he has buried his head in the sand to a certain degree.

[scorchio]

58 minutes ago, Will am I said:

It all starts with the italic “if”.

Lots of things have happened. The prelude leading into straying into the affair, the affair itself, the reaction of the spouse.

Each one of these things is constitutional to your motivation. There were concerns about compatibility and behavioral patterns before, then there was the realization that OW (and maybe others too) would care for you and there would be different options than your current spouse. And finally there were hurtful events and expressions after the affair came out.

It is very well possible that staying in the marriage has become an act driven by duty, discipline, expectations, maybe fear of divorce. 

Imagine you could rewind the clock and not have the affair. Erase its effects. But keep the lessons learned in uour heart. Would you get married again? To the same spouse?

that’s a really good question .

[Will am I]

Only you can answer the question. Efforts to save your marriage are doomed if you’re not motivated yourself.

[BrinnM]

5 hours ago, scorchio said:

For our son , for the life we had. finances , the hope that things could get better, fear of the unknown , fear that divorce may be the biggest mistake of my life etc, probably for all the wrong reasons 

Everybody who ever got divorced had these fears. You’re not the only one. Not wanting to be the bad guy, money, being judged by extended family, parenting schedules, the list goes on. But being stuck like you are is no way to live. Especially for your wife.