Making a guy like you

[hotpotato]

On 10/8/2022 at 3:52 PM, basil67 said:

So best not to base your argument on an assumption

On what assumption? I still think it's silly to go behind a man who is in a sexual state of mind and tell him what's what. He makes it clear how he feels. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, hotpotato said:

On what assumption? I still think it's silly to go behind a man who is in a sexual state of mind and tell him what's what. He makes it clear how he feels. 

The assumption she would have sex for "a little attention" or "breadcrumbs".   You admitted that she didn't ever tell you what would be acceptable....so "a little attention" or "breadcrumbs" are nothing more than assumptions on your part.

[Wiseman2]

Sometimes, things like playing games such as suggested by rule books and PUA myths, may appear to work in theory, however the sad hard fact is either someone is attracted to you or they're not. So no amount of playing hard to get or game theory is going to change that.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Wiseman2

[hotpotato]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

The assumption she would have sex for "a little attention" or "breadcrumbs".   You admitted that she didn't ever tell you what would be acceptable....so "a little attention" or "breadcrumbs" are nothing more than assumptions on your part.

Imo no kind of talking would be necessary. Either he wants to actually get to knownyou or not. If a woman has to go behind a man and convince him or talk to him in anyway, that's already a problem. If he likes you for you, you won't have to go behind him and make remind him to date you. 

Maybe it's my age, but I wouldn't want to have to remind a man to court me.

[hotpotato]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sometimes, things like playing games such as suggested by rule books and PUA myths, may appear to work in theory, however the sad hard fact is either someone is attracted to you or they're not. So no amount of playing hard to get or game theory is going to change that.

 

 

Let's be honest. If a woman is a 2 or more, many men will move heaven and earth to have sex with her. A guy can want to have sex a woman and not want to date. I think that's more of what's going on here. 

 

A man can find a woman extremely attractive and not be interested in actually dating her. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by hotpotato

[hotpotato]

28 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

Let's be honest. If a woman is a 2 or more, many men will move heaven and earth to have sex with her. A guy can want to have sex a woman and not want to date. I think that's more of what's going on here. 

 

A man can find a woman extremely attractive and not be interested in actually dating her. 

Oh, did you mean more from the man's point of view? Imo even if a woman does find him attractive, that doesn't mean she doesn't also want commitment or to actually date. 

I wonder if that pua stuff works on anybody who has had any kind of experience, or the guy would need to go the extra mile to feign interest.  I think they'd have to target women who have barely dated. 

To me most men are not sexually enticing. I think most men are OK at best. My sex drive isn't high enough for me to be enchanted by a man for being anatomically correct. I've had men basically tell say," I'm a man, you're a woman, why can't wr just have sex?" One of which was a guy who was pretending like he wanted to be my boyfriend.

 

 

[Alpacalia]

20 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

Imo even if a woman does find him attractive, that doesn't mean she doesn't also want commitment or to actually date. 

Yes.

That happens. If said woman has no emotional connection with said man. That doesn't translate into good sex so it isn't really worth it to invest time and effort on it.

[mark clemson]

4 hours ago, hotpotato said:

Let's be honest. If a woman is a 2 or more

A man can find a woman extremely attractive and not be interested in actually dating her. 

While there's truth to this, I think the bar is perhaps a bit higher. While it's always subjective, maybe a "5" is more realistic. And I speak as a horndog male who, like many men, isn't overly fussy. It's possible to find a women repulsive (just as it no doubt is for a woman to find a man), which obviously tends to reduce attraction.

When you're younger, there can be social ramifications to dating, or even sleeping with, an unattractive women. The saying in my HS days was along the lines of "like a moped, they're fun to ride until your friends find out."  Of course as an adult generally no one worries about these things overmuch.

There is also the matter of personality. The 1 to 10 thing, for men, tends to be based on physical appearance, but some women can be reasonably or even very attractive, but their personality makes the guy not interested.

Edited October 18, 2022 by mark clemson

[poppyfields]

7 hours ago, hotpotato said:

I've had men basically tell say," I'm a man, you're a woman, why can't we just have sex?" One of which was a guy who was pretending like he wanted to be my boyfriend.

I experienced this as well when I was OLDing.   I can't say if those men followed the PUA mindset as was previously mentioned by @mark clemsonand @Wiseman2, but I know men who do and their mindset is - sex first, dating/relationship second.

They won't even consider dating a woman (taking her out, spending money on her) unless she agrees to have sex with him FIRST.

This is called in PUA lingo "a compliance test" to determine how into him she is.  Whether she complies to his frame or not.

They claim it's self-protective so they don't get used or taken advantage of by women out to use them for a free dinner or whatever, and in their defense there ARE women who do this.  I had a friend (ex friend) who would do this, use men for free dinners, attention, etc.

The bottom line however is that they just don't trust women and haven't developed the tools to properly date and develop healthy relationships with women.

I am not saying that when men want sex before dating, that is always the case, but talking to some of them, there are plenty of women who WILL "comply" and have sex before being taken out on a proper date, so I suppose in their minds, why change what works for them?

I will say one thing though, it's definitely NOT because they are too shy.

Edited October 18, 2022 by poppyfields

[NuevoYorko]

You have a misguided concept of "communication."  The person who tells guys she's interested in dating as opposed to having casual sex is not exerting any control over what said guy will or won't do.  She is advocating for herself and saying what she wants. THAT IS HEALTHY.

What happens next is anybody's guess.  Sure, maybe the guy is super manipulative and has a lot of spare time on his hands to date her for a while in hopes of getting in her pants.  Who knows.  Maybe the two would start to like each other during that process.  Or, he might just decide she's too much work and stop paying attention to her as soon as she tells him what she wants.  

How the guy acts is beyond the scope of this conversation. She certainly is not "making" him like her.  That's up to him.  The important part is that she's not afraid to come out with it:  she wants to date.  I give the woman a thumbs up.

Edited October 18, 2022 by NuevoYorko

[basil67]

10 hours ago, hotpotato said:

Imo no kind of talking would be necessary. Either he wants to actually get to knownyou or not. If a woman has to go behind a man and convince him or talk to him in anyway, that's already a problem. If he likes you for you, you won't have to go behind him and make remind him to date you. 

Maybe it's my age, but I wouldn't want to have to remind a man to court me.

Her actions are the opposite of "going behind him".  She's actually standing in front of him blocking him.  Nor is she "convincing him".  Rather, she's telling him that she has no interest in having sex with a guy who she's not dating.  What he does with that information is up to him.

Yes, this is not what you'd do.  It's not what some of the other posters do.  But why care about how a stranger on the internet chooses to date?  If it works for her, then good on her.

[poppyfields]

45 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Her actions are the opposite of "going behind him".  She's actually standing in front of him blocking him.  Nor is she "convincing him".  Rather, she's telling him that she has no interest in having sex with a guy who she's not dating.  What he does with that information is up to him.

I agree with this^ however I understand your point too @hotpotato.   I think I posted this earlier but when I met men (on line, this never happened with men I met IRL) who propositioned me for sex before asking me on a date, I found it utterly distasteful usually because the way in which they propositioned me was disrespectful and offensive.

I won't repeat here because I would risk a ban for language breach, but needless to say I had no desire to tell such man I was interested in dating first, I simply deleted him as I had NO desire to date such a man.

That said I give a thumbs up to your friend as well for expressing what SHE wanted.  I don't consider it "talking him into anything," she's simply stating her preferences, and as basil said, after that it's up to him to take or leave.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by poppyfields

[basil67]

Out of curiosity, how many messages were exchanged before he got sexual?   Did she also enjoy a bit of sexy talk?  Were they vibing well before he got into his sexual talk?   And how many of these guys did she end up dating?   

Or are these guys who started with sex and she shut them down by telling them that she's only looking to date? 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, hotpotato said:

. If a woman is a 2 or more, many men will move heaven and earth to have sex with her. 

That may be so, but you asked about "making a guy like you". Using someone for sex is hardly liking or respecting someone. Sure there are some men who'll sleep with anyone, perhaps better known as "beer goggles" or "coyote mornings", but again this has nothing to do with liking respecting or dating.

 

[hotpotato]

On 10/18/2022 at 5:29 PM, basil67 said:

Her actions are the opposite of "going behind him".  She's actually standing in front of him blocking him.  Nor is she "convincing him".  Rather, she's telling him that she has no interest in having sex with a guy who she's not dating.  What he does with that information is up to him.

Yes, this is not what you'd do.  It's not what some of the other posters do.  But why care about how a stranger on the internet chooses to date?  If it works for her, then good on her.

I was just wondering if that was normal. 

We may have to agree to disagree. Imo such a talk wouldn't be necessary if he really wanted to date. I wouldn't deal with that. I would look at how he was acting and move in if I didn't like it. 

In my experience it's best when everything happens naturally. No kne has to communicate that they want to date. Everything is obvious. 

Somewhat off topic, but if I ever date again, I'm going to date like a man. I've never had a man try to communicate. If they don't like a situation, they up and leave. 

[hotpotato]

On 10/18/2022 at 7:41 PM, basil67 said:

Out of curiosity, how many messages were exchanged before he got sexual?   Did she also enjoy a bit of sexy talk?  Were they vibing well before he got into his sexual talk?   And how many of these guys did she end up dating?   

Or are these guys who started with sex and she shut them down by telling them that she's only looking to date? 

 

The conversation was about the latter. 

[hotpotato]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:14 PM, poppyfields said:

I agree with this^ however I understand your point too @hotpotato.   I think I posted this earlier but when I met men (on line, this never happened with men I met IRL) who propositioned me for sex before asking me on a date, I found it utterly distasteful usually because the way in which they propositioned me was disrespectful and offensive.

I won't repeat here because I would risk a ban for language breach, but needless to say I had no desire to tell such man I was interested in dating first, I simply deleted him as I had NO desire to date such a man.

That said I give a thumbs up to your friend as well for expressing what SHE wanted.  I don't consider it "talking him into anything," she's simply stating her preferences, and as basil said, after that it's up to him to take or leave.

 

 

Even if it's not talking him into it, she us still going behind him and suggesting they date. Imo if a man wants to date you, you won't have to remind him. Hypothetical guy in question is coming on to her sexually. I don't see how he could just forget or what not to ask her out if that's what he truly wanted. 

I look at men as they are anx make a decision from that. If a man doesn't want to date, it really doesn't matter what she thinks or feels. 

[BrinnM]

I don’t know what the problem is. 
She says what she wants. He can do with that information what he wants. Done.

Nobody is coercing anybody into anything, neither he her into sex, nor she him into a relationship. They know what the other one wants, and they are free to choose their own path, with or without the other. She’s not begging him to date/court her; all she says is no to sex if there’s no relationship/courting. I commend her for that. Good for her!

I honestly think it’s pretty classy on her part. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by BrinnM

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, hotpotato said:

 

In my experience it's best when everything happens naturally. No kne has to communicate that they want to date. Everything is obvious. 

But ... you've said that you don't date.  It seems reasonable to assume that to some extent your experiences have been unfortunate, or perhaps you would not have decided to quit doing it.

I can assure you of this:  Lots of men who would have liked to have sex with some woman but who did not succeed have ended up dating her.  It's not necessarily mutually exclusive: I mean, a man can want to have sex with her right now but ultimately, if he gets to know her more, end up wanting to actually date her.  It's not "either/ or" in MANY cases. 

If you're very attractive, men will be physically attracted to you before they know anything about you.  In those cases, the desire to have sex can easily come before deeper interest develops.

Edited October 23, 2022 by NuevoYorko

[Els]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:38 PM, hotpotato said:

I was having a debate about men who are very sexual from the get go. This woman told me that she doesn't have that problem.because she would communicate with him and tell him she wants to date. 

It very much makes sense that that would solve the "problem", as presumably most people who only want sex (and are direct enough to say that straight up) would decline to go through with the date?

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, hotpotato said:

Even if it's not talking him into it, she us still going behind him and suggesting they date. Imo if a man wants to date you, you won't have to remind him. Hypothetical guy in question is coming on to her sexually. I don't see how he could just forget or what not to ask her out if that's what he truly wanted. 

I look at men as they are anx make a decision from that. If a man doesn't want to date, it really doesn't matter what she thinks or feels. 

I understand.   And it's how YOU feel.  And as I said, it's also how I feel.  I never bothered, not my cup of tea, next. 

BUT not all women think like we do, we are all individuals with out own ways of conducting ourselves which includes how we choose to interact with men, date and develop relationships

There is no right or wrong, only different.

And who knows?  It's possible upon telling a man she prefers to date first, before sex, he might develop a certain respect for her and change his frame about that, and ask her on a proper date!

I've seen where that has happened and they ended up dating for a long time. 

For me I was never interested, which is why I never did.

To each her own OP, live and let live, different strokes.

Again, no right or wrong, just different.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by poppyfields

[basil67]

@hotpotato Why is the dating technique of a stranger on the internet such a hot topic for you?  It's not like her choices affect you in any way

[hotpotato]

11 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

But ... you've said that you don't date.  It seems reasonable to assume that to some extent your experiences have been unfortunate, or perhaps you would not have decided to quit doing it.

I can assure you of this:  Lots of men who would have liked to have sex with some woman but who did not succeed have ended up dating her.  It's not necessarily mutually exclusive: I mean, a man can want to have sex with her right now but ultimately, if he gets to know her more, end up wanting to actually date her.  It's not "either/ or" in MANY cases. 

If you're very attractive, men will be physically attracted to you before they know anything about you.  In those cases, the desire to have sex can easily come before deeper interest develops.

I dont date, but I could if i wanted to. That doesn't mean I never had a man love me. The men who loved me, I never had to remind them to spend time with me. The latest guy who I could've dated tried to get me back to his place. I didn't say anything, and then he offered to take me on a date. We were casual, and we could be dating had i wanted. 

I guess I just don't relate to that as well. I've had plenty of guys just try to have sex with me, and I learned my lesson. If I don't like what he's offering me, I just keep nit moving and don't waste my breath. 

I understand that a man can want sex and get to know a woman, but in my experience, many men are happy to have sex and then barely talk to you. 

 A woman doesn't have to be attractive for a man to move heaven and earth trying to get in that box. That's why to me them trying to have sex with me is almost meaningless. If he wants me to believe he wants to know me as a person, he needs to show me something else. I don't believe I should have to go behind a grown man and suggest he spends time with me esp after he's been very straightforward sexually. 

 

[hotpotato]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

@hotpotato Why is the dating technique of a stranger on the internet such a hot topic for you?  It's not like her choices affect you in any way

I was just curious as to if this was normal for women to do or not. It's not about her per se.

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, hotpotato said:

If he wants me to believe he wants to know me as a person, he needs to show me something else.

 

This doesn’t guarantee anything either. A guy can date a woman properly, get to know her, have sex, and dump her shortly after. Multiple threads on here where that happened.