How to approach this

[basil67]

@ZA Dater I'm still hoping to hear from you.   I really want to know if she ever expressed concerns or mentioned that her needs weren't being met.  I am truly wondering if this wasn't your fault 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

@ZA Dater I'm still hoping to hear from you.   I really want to know if she ever expressed concerns or mentioned that her needs weren't being met.  I am truly wondering if this wasn't your fault 

This was never brought up. I was intending to introduce her to my family in the coming weeks. I will say that that my schedule as been especially busy recently but I tried to fit in dinners, lunches and general time together. I really did bring her into my world.

The way I see it I may as well just say how I feel, something very hard for me to do because I am inherently quite closed off when it comes to feelings.

What I guess surprised me is how suddenly this happened, maybe I was just stupid and did not see the signs. I am genuinely feeling very sad about this, in a way I have not felt sad before. At the end of the day I messed this up so its all on me. 

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

 

Back to you:  If you want your life to look differently than it does right this minute, you will NEED to make a commitment to learning new ways and challenging yourself every day.  This is basically what everyone tells you, year in and year out, on your threads.  I hope some day you will take this advice.  

Sure, all very good and well but at some point I just end up thinking. Why bother? Its been some incredibly hard to find anyone and even when I did try look at what happened? To all who are putting the blame on my shoulders exclusively, you are all completely right. Much like everything I simply have to live with the consequences of my very unintended lack of ability.

Frankly I have enough challenges to deal with daily and going back onto OLD is not something I am prepared to do, as time goes by I become ever less attractive, ever less viable and frankly I am not interested in single moms anymore and the allure of having kids is gone. I look at what I have to offer and frankly it is nothing, this is not me being down its me being realistic. 

I have spent enough time sitting eating on my own at restaurants, looking around and realizing that actually nobody would want to spend time with me and yet somehow I got really lucky and managed to find someone who did apparently like spending time with me, it took over 20 years so I really do not fancy my odds. Equally I refuse to give up on this so I am going to try and meet her and have a face to face discussion, we did this initially but it was very brief.

Its all good and well to crow on about therapy, I have been to a few, all were a total waste of money, the inherent problem is I am completely out of step with everyone else at life, growing up I never fitted in, when people were going to social, I was at home reading about politics or cars, when people were  trying to date, I was out cycling or reading or writing. Now everyone is married, most have kids and I still do not fit in, you can see how near impossible it is to sell myself as a viable dating proposition. 

So yes when someone attractive walks past me, I simply cant be bothered. My belief is now is that if we are granted a second life I can try correct the absolute mess I have made of this one. Virtually every single decision I have made has turned out wrong.

Kudos to your friend.

[Foxhall]

Generally a persons first real relationship (for later starters like you and me I am talking about) does not work out perhaps a lot from overthinking things- or being uncomfortable with the natural flow of things,

Two possibilities- this may give you confidence and you will now find that further women will follow,

or and this is the way I would play it- give this lady some space for a month or a number of weeks,

and try to gently check in again after a period of time and suggest meeting up for a casual drink or something,

absence can make the heart grow fonder and a little bit of space could work well particularly for her.

 

 

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Foxhall said:

Generally a persons first real relationship (for later starters like you and me I am talking about) does not work out perhaps a lot from overthinking things- or being uncomfortable with the natural flow of things,

Two possibilities- this may give you confidence and you will now find that further women will follow,

or and this is the way I would play it- give this lady some space for a month or a number of weeks,

and try to gently check in again after a period of time and suggest meeting up for a casual drink or something,

absence can make the heart grow fonder and a little bit of space could work well particularly for her.

 

 

 

I am going to try that, tough because we communicated every single day and I will seriously miss that. I am not too interested in doing OLD again, if I was cynical before I am even more so now. I just walked down the road to have lunch on my own and in that time walked past a number of attractive ladies but its a fruitless pursuit because I know I don't enjoy hectic social events or bars or drinking or yeah. 

The plus point with the lady I was dating is we liked the same sort of things which made everything a lot easier. I suffer from a dire lack of compatibility. 

[ZA Dater]

Apparently we are now on a friendship basis which confuses me quite a lot but I suppose I just need to try....because I want to.

[ZA Dater]

Any advice how I can try feel better. I planned a great weekend for us with lots of her favourite things, can't cancel so have to go alone and I know whenever I see those things I'll think of her.

I'd love to just sit down and pour out my soul to her but not sure how much good that would do.

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd love to just sit down and pour out my soul to her but not sure how much good that would do.

You have nothing to lose really. She has said let’s be friends but that is going to be difficult because a) you still have feelings for her and b) someday, she will date someone else. 

Whether you do or whether you don’t depends on what she said and how you feel it would be received (ie, how firm is she in her decision or is this something that can be discussed/reconsidered). It also depends on whether you are prepared to do so and risk being told - thank you, but I’m not interested. If you can deal with that rejection, you may want to consider it assuming that you think it will be received kindly. 

[poppyfields]

On 10/4/2022 at 7:55 AM, ZA Dater said:

Well it would seem she is done. Lot of the conversation was about how things should escalate, it would seem something more committed is what she is looking for.

I'd love to just sit down and pour out my soul to her but not sure how much good that would do.

 

ZA, I absolutely think you should open up to her and "pour out your soul to her" (become vulnerable).

Based on the above quoted she did not end things with you because she stopped caring or wants to date other men.

She ended it because she's in love with you and she wants and needs more than you were willing or capable of giving her, clearly!

She wants/needs a deep emotional connection, she wants to know she's not wasting her time, she wants to know that your RL has legs and was heading somewhere.

Based on your previous threads, you were, admittedly, "emotionally unavailable."  Ambivalent and uncertain.

My sense was she loved you and so she "hung in there" with you, accepting the status quo from you, but as time went on and she fell more in love, it wasn't acceptable anymore, it was too painful, so she ended it.

This happens A LOT believe it or not.  Sometimes people (in this case you) don't know what they want or even how they feel when their significant other is standing right in front of them so to speak, IN the relationship with them.

Once they leave, suddenly it hits them.  How much the person meant/means to them, how much they value them, how much they love them.

I don't know why it takes someone leaving the relationship for their partner to realize their feelings but it's not uncommon, it happens a lot.

IMO, she does NOT need space.  The more space you give her, the more she will believe you don't care and that she made the right decision.

She needs you to step up to the plate and open up to her, tell her how you feel.   Nothing less will do so please think hard if you are emotionally ready to be with this girl and give her what she needs and if it's what YOU want to.

If not, then let her go, move on and allow her the opportunity to move on as well.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by poppyfields

[basil67]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:55 AM, ZA Dater said:

Well it would seem she is done. Lot of the conversation was about how things should escalate, it would seem something more committed is what she is looking for.

I'm circling right back to this comment.  I really want to help you, but you're not exactly forthcoming with enough description to help me give good advice.  I've already been at fault for making incorrect guesses (about sex), so I'm going to try and tease out exactly what happened. 

In this conversation about how things should escalate, did she give examples of what escalation would look like?  If so, what exactly did she say she wants?  And are the things she wants also things that you want?   Importantly, did she ever talk about wanting those things while you were still together? 

I feel you have a long standing habit of blaming yourself for things, and likely we've got a long history of explaining that you've got the wrong end of the stick when it comes to understanding interpersonal relationships.  However, this doesn't mean that you're always wrong and therefore doomed to fail.  It's also possible that your partner could have handled this better.  Or that both of you could have handled it better.   This is what I'm trying to tease out with my questions.  I think unpacking all of this would be helpful

 

[Foxhall]

11 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The plus point with the lady I was dating is we liked the same sort of things which made everything a lot easier.

Im just reading the thread more thoroughly ,

Yes it would be a pity actually if this proves to be the end game on the relationship,

Its not that easy to meet compatible people, and you appear to have overcome that obstacle.

 Poppyfields probably has a point there- although I would still let things settle for a few days,

one thing that strikes me is that you mentioned frequently bringing her for weekends away , but very little about introducing her to friends and family.

I know my own relationship- a big thing for her was meeting my immediate family and closest friends   feeling escalation in terms of being introduced to people as a "girlfriend"

Your probably more comfortable "away from home" but the women they watch all these little things and they need to feel wanted and apart of your immediate life- they dont want to be your dirty secret (as someone said to me here before)

You introducing her to closer family and at least putting on the table the notion of moving in together (you could still leave that on the long finger) but at least let her know you are open to it,

that might be all she is looking for reassurance.

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

Do you KNOW what she means and wants when she spoke of "escalation"?  

Are you prepared to offer her those things?  

If you are, then tell her and SHOW HER.  

[chillii]

Op , l'd go back to the same l said back when you first met.  Of course your going to miss her now and the times and person she is and the now void, or her value as people have talked about, of course. Breaking up's not easy with anyone no matter how people throw the next or the ohhhh, just move on words around as if confetti.  But you still talk about the times, her, what a lovely person she is well, we can be with somebody like this, but there's no love, passion or of intimacy. l'm not one to splatter that stuff all over the internet world and to a bunch of strangers either but even for the more subtle it's often still just there between the lines, it still isn't with you though. You prob do love her now but you don't sound in love and l'd doubt you desire her physically either, these are the likely road block, not your lack of bc that grows with these crucial things and falls into place it's not rocket science. But it just isn't with anything you say and that's prob what's also stopping you from saving things with her.

Edited October 13, 2022 by chillii

[chillii]

l'd say it's very obvious why she's quitting and that you know it too deep down but you just can't go that extra bc it just isn't there in that way.

[bene]

15 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd love to just sit down and pour out my soul to her but not sure how much good that would do.

If one of your problems was that you are too reserved and closed off then it might actually be a good idea. You don’t need to put on an act that you don’t care about losing her. Be vulnerable and emotional for a change, there is nothing to lose. 

[chillii]

 

l dunno , it might get you a sweet cuddle but it still isn't going to put the real things missing for her into the relationship is it.

[poppyfields]

There is a popular saying:

"We don't know what we've got till it's gone."

I didn't make that up, and it's true for many people.

Sometimes the fears and anxieties people carry within can cause a sort of emotional block and prevent them from getting in touch with their own emotions and feelings. 

While in the relationship, they go through the motions but something's missing. 

I'm truth, nothing is missing, what's happening is their fears/anxiety prevent them from seeing what's "there."

When their partner leaves, it's a jolt, a metaphorical kick in the ass.  

Suddenly everything they felt was lacking is presented to them like a beautiful bright shining light. 

This isn't true for everyone obviously but for you @ZA Dater, a man who felt unworthy and undervalued your entire adult life, who is emotionally closed, unable to connect with others or even yourself and your own feelings, this may be true for you. 

You became involved with a woman who did/does value you, who did/does love you, but you couldn't accept it while she was right there in front of you. 

Your fears prevented that. 

Now she's gone and you're faced with that reality and as such realizing your own limitations and confronting your own fears. 

This would not have happened had she remained in your life, it was safe.  Mundane but safe. 

I'm not a shrink but I'm very familiar with such fears and anxieties, I've experienced myself and learned about them through research and study.

It's not always so black and white to say "oh I just wasn't feeling it, next."

Sometimes it is, but in this case, I don't think so based on all your threads throughout the years.  Way before you even met this girl. 

It goes much deeper than that. 

Continue searching within ZA.  Confront your fears. Face them head on

Otherwise you will find something "wrong" with every woman you meet, even the 10 you have dreamed about.

Who is only a fantasy but that fantasy is safe  because it won't require you to step up, look in the mirror and face yourself and your own fears and take the necessary steps to resolve.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by poppyfields

[Weezy1973]

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Any advice how I can try feel better.

You’re experiencing your first break up. All of us have been through it. It is really tough and honestly what will make you feel better is time. The breakup is very fresh right now. Unfortunately staying friends will prolong the pain even if it feels like a way to numb it now. As is often the case, short term pain = long term gain.

Also apologies for the “I told you so” nature of my initial posts after your breakup. That’s not really fair right after the breakup. We can analyze and strategize later. Right now you’re in a lot of pain and I’ve been there. Feel free to send me a direct message if you want.

[Trail Blazer]

You'll be better for the experience,@ZA Dater

Don't fret - you were never into her from the beginning.  This was the only inevitable outcome.

Learn, grow and move on.

Time heals all wounds.  It doesn't sound like yours are too deep.  Keep searching for that elusive lady; you're well on your way now!

 

[chillii]

Yep l agree.

She saw it from the start but hoped things would grow if she was patient , but they just haven't.

[poppyfields]

ZA, question for you.

Have you ever been truly "into" any woman?  I am not referring to the 10s you fantasize about, I mean a real woman you have dated and had a relationship with.

As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) you have never found any woman up to your standards nor have you had any relationships.

If you were in your early-mid 20s, this would be considered acceptable and okay but you're pushing 40, correct?

I do agree with @Trail Blazerand @chilliithat you were not into this woman, at least not while you were dating her.

The question is why?

Is it her?

Or is it you?

Is there something within you that prevents you from experiencing attraction and emotions the way a more emotionally healthy person would?

I apologize I don't mean to get so deep on ya, but I truly believe there is more to this than "I'm not into her, next."

Especially given your strong feelings now, after she left you. 

I think if you DO ever want to have a healthy mutually-rewarding relationship with a woman you're "into" and who is "into" you, it's worth exploring.

JMO, good luck.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by poppyfields

[ZA Dater]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:32 AM, poppyfields said:

ZA, question for you.

Have you ever been truly "into" any woman?  I am not referring to the 10s you fantasize about, I mean a real woman you have dated and had a relationship with.

As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) you have never found any woman up to your standards nor have you had any relationships.

If you were in your early-mid 20s, this would be considered acceptable and okay but you're pushing 40, correct?

I do agree with @Trail Blazerand @chilliithat you were not into this woman, at least not while you were dating her.

The question is why?

Is it her?

Or is it you?

Is there something within you that prevents you from experiencing attraction and emotions the way a more emotionally healthy person would?

I apologize I don't mean to get so deep on ya, but I truly believe there is more to this than "I'm not into her, next."

Especially given your strong feelings now, after she left you. 

I think if you DO ever want to have a healthy mutually-rewarding relationship with a woman you're "into" and who is "into" you, it's worth exploring.

JMO, good luck.

 

Well the point being I have never had a relationship.

I think its really is because after so many years of trying and really not getting anywhere, eventually its just becomes going through the motions. In the grand scheme of things I am fairly fortunate but I have a lot on my plate any one time, sickly parents, extremely demanding work across many different tasks and responsibilities, days pass easily because they are mostly a blur. Emotionally I am just drained most days. 

[ZA Dater]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:17 PM, Weezy1973 said:

You’re experiencing your first break up. All of us have been through it. It is really tough and honestly what will make you feel better is time. The breakup is very fresh right now. Unfortunately staying friends will prolong the pain even if it feels like a way to numb it now. As is often the case, short term pain = long term gain.

Also apologies for the “I told you so” nature of my initial posts after your breakup. That’s not really fair right after the breakup. We can analyze and strategize later. Right now you’re in a lot of pain and I’ve been there. Feel free to send me a direct message if you want.

I am a big fan of "tell it how it is" so actually there is nothing to apologise for! Thanks anyway.

The problem I have is I know I am very flawed and very unattractive to most, there is a certain part of me that simply accepts that now.  In the past I thought I could overcome that but its pretty obvious I cant.  There is always this sense I have "missed out" and more than that a sense that the good qualities I do have really do not work in the context of a relationship and I actually had someone tell me exactly this. Its like walking into a store with $5 hoping it will buy a $50 item. Your "I told you so was basically that". 

There is a lot of incompatibility with me which does not help either, I really do not want kids and I really do not want a relationship with kids, that takes about 85% of the dating pool away assuming I realise I cannot date a party animal 24 year old. What I end up left with are similar misfits like me and truthfully there is no allure there.

Then I think how nice it must have been to actually learn dating when everyone did, have the inexperience of youth to make mistakes and just live that portion of life like most do. 

The fundamental flaws run very deep, loyalty is my bread and butter but it comes at a cost, a big cost in terms of life and how that foundation affects everything else, I do what I do in the hope doing what I do will one day get me closer to what my objective is.

I am going to try and sit with her this week and instead of trying to rack my brain to rehearse something I am simply going to say what comes to mind at the time. If I can rescue this then fantastic, if not well then I simply add this onto what is a very heavy backpack of misstates I have made in life which I am forced to carry around with me on a day to day basis.

 

[ZA Dater]

On 10/13/2022 at 12:10 AM, basil67 said:

I'm circling right back to this comment.  I really want to help you, but you're not exactly forthcoming with enough description to help me give good advice.  I've already been at fault for making incorrect guesses (about sex), so I'm going to try and tease out exactly what happened. 

In this conversation about how things should escalate, did she give examples of what escalation would look like?  If so, what exactly did she say she wants?  And are the things she wants also things that you want?   Importantly, did she ever talk about wanting those things while you were still together? 

I feel you have a long standing habit of blaming yourself for things, and likely we've got a long history of explaining that you've got the wrong end of the stick when it comes to understanding interpersonal relationships.  However, this doesn't mean that you're always wrong and therefore doomed to fail.  It's also possible that your partner could have handled this better.  Or that both of you could have handled it better.   This is what I'm trying to tease out with my questions.  I think unpacking all of this would be helpful

 

The issue is that there was no meeting of parents which I should have initiated from my side and I was going to suggest this in the coming weeks. My huge mistake was to assume that going on dates we were in fact dating. Its really poor communication on my part which has caused all of this.

I am pretty much to blame for this. The reality is I do not really understand how relationships work, every relationship around me is flawed and there are just no good examples at all. Again last week it once again was pointed out the importance of superficial for many people.

Someone here once many years ago told me that anyone who does go out with me will be very unfortunate and I think here I simply just got what I deserved. Its fairly impossible to do something you do not know how to do, I did however try the best I could and it simply was not good enough. I am just not a very loveable person I guess.

[ZA Dater]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:32 AM, Foxhall said:

Im just reading the thread more thoroughly ,

Yes it would be a pity actually if this proves to be the end game on the relationship,

Its not that easy to meet compatible people, and you appear to have overcome that obstacle.

 Poppyfields probably has a point there- although I would still let things settle for a few days,

one thing that strikes me is that you mentioned frequently bringing her for weekends away , but very little about introducing her to friends and family.

I know my own relationship- a big thing for her was meeting my immediate family and closest friends   feeling escalation in terms of being introduced to people as a "girlfriend"

Your probably more comfortable "away from home" but the women they watch all these little things and they need to feel wanted and apart of your immediate life- they dont want to be your dirty secret (as someone said to me here before)

You introducing her to closer family and at least putting on the table the notion of moving in together (you could still leave that on the long finger) but at least let her know you are open to it,

that might be all she is looking for reassurance.

 

 

All the bold parts are true I think, errors I made, look I introduced her to people I spend time with, just be aware I simply do not have friends in the conventional sense.