How to approach this

[basil67]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

I would have wanted to discuss it and yes I would have wanted to integrate myself more, meet family.

Unfortunately I just get to pay the price for inexperience and poor decision making.

Did you miss where I said she could have initiated the conversation herself?  Reading her thoughts is not your job.  And its also an impossible task

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Did she ask for exclusivity or to meet your family?   If not, its not all your fault.   Besides, given your lack of experience, I think it should have been clear that there was no one else for you

I've been with my partner for 30 years and we've never had the exclusive discussion - it was always a given

I was not seeing anyone else or going on other dates. I just need to live with the consequences of what I have created here, its just another example of where inexperience does matter and it matters a lot! 

Absolutely not interested in getting back on the OLD round about again, this is really it for me. When I sit down and I have done and write out all the things which make me very unattractive I basically fill a A4 page. When I write down what I am good at, none of those really matter to anyone. Here I found someone who I do find attractive who does sort of get me and yet I still contrive to mess it up.

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Did you miss where I said she could have initiated the conversation herself?  Reading her thoughts is not your job.  And its also an impossible task

She said to me "what is this" and my response is we are dating and she then said last week that I had closed the discussion down but that was not my intention and I said so.

Reality is once again I have lost out, as is always the case. The thought of going back to OLD is not appealing at all, in fact at the moment there is little less appealing than that. I bought her gifts for her birthday and was hoping to take her out for a surprise dinner at her favorite restaurant but I guess I can still give her the gifts.

This is the point with me, I am useful but emotionally useless. I wont find anyone else, past experience has told me that. 

Just another mistake I will keep paying for on a daily basis.

[basil67]

It seems you're determined to pile on yourself and accept her fault in this as your own.   Fact is though, when we date someone who's got less experience (and I have done so) we need to lead a bit.  It's ridiculous to expect the less experienced one to lead, or to just shut down if they don't read our minds.  

Given that she knows of your inexperience, I feel like she's set you up to fail.  

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It seems you're determined to pile on yourself and accept her fault in this as your own.   Fact is though, when we date someone who's got less experience (and I have done so) we need to lead a bit.  It's ridiculous to expect the less experienced one to lead, or to just shut down if they don't read our minds.  

Given that she knows of your inexperience, I feel like she's set you up to fail.  

Ultimately my inexperience and lack of judgement is not her fault. Its mine.

[basil67]

Her holding resentment for you not  reading her mind is not OK.  If she didn't clearly tell you what she needed, this is 100% on her.  

Edited October 20, 2022 by basil67

[Weezy1973]

15 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ultimately my inexperience and lack of judgement is not her fault. Its mine.

Your problem was you didn’t really know what you wanted. You still don’t. You can write pages on what you don’t want, but trying to actually get a straight answer as to what you want is like pulling teeth. There are multiple posts about your relative indifference about this woman. About you still living in the fantasy of dating a beautiful young model. About how you think the fantasy is better than reality (ie this woman). So when you couldn’t commit to anything more than “dating” it told her what she already knew. Your reaction here is understandable. It’s your first breakup, and you were quite attached to her. I predict you’ll be back to OLD within six months. And writing epic posts again. But I also predict you’ll have more success moving forward. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Your problem was you didn’t really know what you wanted. You still don’t. You can write pages on what you don’t want, but trying to actually get a straight answer as to what you want is like pulling teeth. There are multiple posts about your relative indifference about this woman. About you still living in the fantasy of dating a beautiful young model. About how you think the fantasy is better than reality (ie this woman). So when you couldn’t commit to anything more than “dating” it told her what she already knew. Your reaction here is understandable. It’s your first breakup, and you were quite attached to her. I predict you’ll be back to OLD within six months. And writing epic posts again. But I also predict you’ll have more success moving forward. 

I am really not interested in doing OLD ever again. What I will end up doing is convincing myself I am ok with being alone forever like millions of others on this planet. I have nothing to offer people in the dating world and that has pretty much been proven to be the case. Even when things do actually make sense there is still not enough attractive about me, reconciling that might be a lot more challenging.

Honestly, I stand firm in my assertion that if a person did not pick up dating and get experience earlier in life it becomes almost impossible to pick up later. People who say it is seldom find themselves in that situation. 

Unfortunately the odds at 38 of finding someone who does not have kids or want kids is very limited indeed so that pretty much removes all the water from my so called dating pool. 

All is not lost, I can window shop and pay for the decisions I made every single day.

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

She said to me "what is this" and my response is we are dating and she then said last week that I had closed the discussion down but that was not my intention and I said so.

In other words, this is a miscommunication that most couples would discuss and ultimately laugh about… They wouldn’t end the relationship and walk away blaming themselves for getting the whole thing wrong. Life/relationships are not all or nothing, black or white like this. If you can’t communicate or resolve conflict, you aren’t going to have a successful relationship. 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I just need to live with the consequences of what I have created here, its just another example of where inexperience does matter and it matters a lot! 

Walking away and blaming yourself for the fact that neither of you communicated such that you were able to resolve this misunderstanding is not helpful, but it seems to be your chosen response. As basil said, she has a responsibility to communicate with you too and you can not be expected to read her mind. 

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Reality is once again I have lost out, as is always the case. The thought of going back to OLD is not appealing at all, in fact at the moment there is little less appealing than that.

And, we veer off topic again…

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I bought her gifts for her birthday and was hoping to take her out for a surprise dinner at her favorite restaurant but I guess I can still give her the gifts.

This is the point with me, I am useful but emotionally useless. I wont find anyone else, past experience has told me that. 

Just another mistake I will keep paying for on a daily basis.

With a little more self pity thrown in for good measure.

The bottom line - we can’t help you if you are unwilling to help yourself. 

People make mistakes, miscommunicate, and have conflict in their relationships every day. Not very many throw their hands in the air, assume all the blame, and throw themselves a pity party. The fact that you have done so really shows that you are not ready to be in a serious relationship with a woman - not that you can’t have one. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by BaileyB

[princessaurora]

You have to want to change. If not, things will always play out the same. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by princessaurora
Words

[ZA Dater]

35 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

In other words, this is a miscommunication that most couples would discuss and ultimately laugh about… They wouldn’t end the relationship and walk away blaming themselves for getting the whole thing wrong. Life/relationships are not all or nothing, black or white like this. If you can’t communicate or resolve conflict, you aren’t going to have a successful relationship. 

Walking away and blaming yourself for the fact that neither of you communicated such that you were able to resolve this misunderstanding is not helpful, but it seems to be your chosen response. As basil said, she has a responsibility to communicate with you too and you can not be expected to read her mind. 

The fact that you have done so really shows that you are not ready to be in a serious relationship with a woman - not that you can’t have one. 

Did the best I could, was not good enough, the end.

That's pretty much the summary of it. Will take all the blame for my apparent mistake. Not that anything I can do now seems to make any difference. Just starting to think I simply do not have the capacity for relationships, things were so nice with her, similar interests, similar ways of thinking, similar work schedules and there was a lot of common ground. Realistically it took me 22 years to find that, I do not believe I would find it again.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

You have to want to change. If not, things will always play out the same. 

With the greatest of respect, I would not know what to change to because everyone is different, just about the only seemingly mostly half true aspect of dating is a certain degree of superficial does help, one either needs more of needs less depending on ones own personality, in my instance I have none to offer so its a bit like climbing a mountain with no safety rope. One error and its all over. I have found out.

[ZA Dater]

The hardest thing is I can't/don't know how to fix this. Everything I seem to say no matter how heartfelt just seems to make it worse. People are saying maybe don't say anything for a while but she is going on a much anticipated trip and I just want to wish her well for that.

Rejection is bad this is much much worse.

Please don't tell me to go try again on OLD. Please.

 

[BaileyB]

55 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Everything I seem to say no matter how heartfelt just seems to make it worse.

How so?

55 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

People are saying maybe don't say anything for a while but she is going on a much anticipated trip and I just want to wish her well for that.

Why are you not able to wish her a good trip? 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Will take all the blame for my apparent mistake.

Yes, it's good to take the blame for our mistakes.  But you're also taking the blame for her mistakes.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

How so?

Why are you not able to wish her a good trip? 

The advice I am getting is to break communication for a while.

[NuevoYorko]

Can you please stop attributing all of your problems to "lack of experience"?  Everyone had to get started at some point and all the coupled up people around you, as you know,  at one point had no experience.  

Now you have had your first relationship and breakup.  So consider yourself baptized. 

 

[princessaurora]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

With the greatest of respect, I would not know what to change to because everyone is different, just about the only seemingly mostly half true aspect of dating is a certain degree of superficial does help, one either needs more of needs less depending on ones own personality, in my instance I have none to offer so its a bit like climbing a mountain with no safety rope. One error and its all over. I have found out.

You have to be willing to give yourself to someone completely and not leave them guessing how you feel or where you stand. You've made some strides in that dept but still need to work on it a bit. 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Can you please stop attributing all of your problems to "lack of experience"?  Everyone had to get started at some point and all the coupled up people around you, as you know,  at one point had no experience.  

Now you have had your first relationship and breakup.  So consider yourself baptized. 

 

There is a difference to being inexperienced at 18 to being inexperienced at 38.

 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, princessaurora said:

You have to be willing to give yourself to someone completely and not leave them guessing how you feel or where you stand. You've made some strides in that dept but still need to work on it a bit. 

Nah I'd have to go back to the disaster that is OLD and that does not interest me. I'd rather try win her back but I don't know how to do that, everything I say seems to make it worse.

[Acacia98]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

There is a difference to being inexperienced at 18 to being inexperienced at 38.

 

Sure. But life is not a cookie cutter experience. Your reality is that you have had your first proper relationship at 38. So inhabit that reality without apologies and move forward. Once you've taken time to mourn the loss of the relationship and you're over the heartbreak, learn whatever lessons there are to learn from the experience and then adopt those lessons going forward. That way, if you do decide to date again, you can avoid making the same mistakes. If you decide not to date again, that's also cool.

Stop wasting your energy comparing yourself to some imaginary 18 year old with a perfect life. You can't change who you are, so embrace it and try to put your best foot forward. If there are opportunities to be a better version of yourself, try to pursue them.

Also, the way you talk reminds me very much of a friend who had a hard childhood--so hard that his self-esteem is shot and he responds to any challenges life throws his way with excessively negative talk about himself. The situation is never as bleak as he makes it sound, and he's not as hopeless as he has convinced himself he is. In fact, I'd say he has pretty much the same odds of succeeding or failing as the average person. But he's so keen on winning the worthlessness championships that he's always rooting for himself to fail. You really need to figure out why you do the same. Because, in my opinion, that is your biggest obstacle. It seems to frame every aspect of your perception of your life and yourself. If counselling hasn't worked for you then try to get hold of some books that will shed light on whatever experiences you've had (in my case, I have found it useful to read about children of alcoholics and about narcissistic family systems). I have no idea what your childhood experiences may have been. But I know that it is not routine for someone to walk around with so much self-condemnation in their heart every single day.

I know I'm not the only one who's read your posts and gotten the impression that you're not the only one to blame for the relationship not working out. You and the woman you were dating both made missteps. You both have lessons to learn. But because you're so determined to be all wrong all the time, there's no room for you to see some of her actions for what they are.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Acacia98

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Sure. But life is not a cookie cutter experience. Your reality is that you have had your first proper relationship at 38. So inhabit that reality without apologies and move forward. Once you've taken time to mourn the loss of the relationship and you're over the heartbreak, learn whatever lessons there are to learn from the experience and then adopt those lessons going forward. That way, if you do decide to date again, you can avoid making the same mistakes. If you decide not to date again, that's also cool.

Stop wasting your energy comparing yourself to some imaginary 18 year old with a perfect life. You can't change who you are, so embrace it and try to put your best foot forward. If there are opportunities to be a better version of yourself, try to pursue them.

Also, the way you talk reminds me very much of a friend who had a hard childhood--so hard that his self-esteem is shot and he responds to any challenges life throws his way with excessively negative talk about himself. The situation is never as bleak as he makes it sound, and he's not as hopeless as he has convinced himself he is. In fact, I'd say he has pretty much the same odds of succeeding or failing as the average person. But he's so keen on winning the worthlessness championships that he's always rooting for himself to fail. You really need to figure out why you do the same. Because, in my opinion, that is your biggest obstacle. It seems to frame every aspect of your perception of your life and yourself. If counselling hasn't worked for you then try to get hold of some books that will shed light on whatever experiences you've had (in my case, I have found it useful to read about children of alcoholics and about narcissistic family systems). I have no idea what your childhood experiences may have been. But I know that it is not routine for someone to walk around with so much self-condemnation in their heart every single day.

I know I'm not the only one who's read your posts and gotten the impression that you're not the only one to blame for the relationship not working out. You and the woman you were dating both made missteps. You both have lessons to learn. But because you're so determined to be all wrong all the time, there's no room for you to see some of her actions for what they are.

Sure but when inexperience gets thrown in my face either directly or tacitly as it has in the past then clearly it does matter. Sadly the only lesson I have from this is I simply messed up something which was really great. Sure put my best foot forward to routinely have it stood on, what is the point?

Fact of the matter is not wanting kids and not wanting a relationship with kids kills my dating pool, not wanting to date over weight people, reduces that pool  yet further so on and so on as I go through what I want, ALL of which I actually had but I still conspired to mess it up. I have to live with that. 

I do what I do because frankly at most things in life nobody sees any worth in me, I am useful to most but also pretty worthless, its about what people can get out of me rather than appreciating me or giving any positive affirmation at all, heck I even had with this lady positive affirmation for the first time in my life. 

With this lady I had a perfect foundation, I faced a lot of my issues, overcame a lot of them but it was no enough, it does not seem to matter that I actually want to try talk and fix my mistakes, instead I need to carry them around with me. I also know it will be almost impossible for me to find anyone else, that is just the reality, there are a multitude of reasons for that.

In short I want to try fix what went wrong here.

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure but when inexperience gets thrown in my face either directly or tacitly as it has in the past then clearly it does matter. Sadly the only lesson I have from this is I simply messed up something which was really great. Sure put my best foot forward to routinely have it stood on, what is the point?

 

Please stop, you are not a victim.  Every person reading this has experienced a painful breakup or devastating loss; some, several.  

Would you give an honest and straight answer to this question:

Were you really "into" this woman much?  I mean, before you realized that it was not going forward?  You've had a few lengthy threads since you began seeing her and for the most part I had the impression that she was a lackluster placeholder for a woman you'd prefer to be with (the legendary K or similar).  

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Please stop, you are not a victim.  Every person reading this has experienced a painful breakup or devastating loss; some, several.  

Would you give an honest and straight answer to this question:

Were you really "into" this woman much?  I mean, before you realized that it was not going forward?  You've had a few lengthy threads since you began seeing her and for the most part I had the impression that she was a lackluster placeholder for a woman you'd prefer to be with (the legendary K or similar).  

Not true. I am into her. 

Decided I can sit and mope or I can try win her back, not that I would have any idea how to do that but nevertheless I am going to try. She is still communicating with me and she has admitted its been a tough few days.

Here is someone who I am compatible with so I do not really want to throw it away because of my own stupidity, though once again lack any sort of confidence that I can actually somehow win her back my judgement is frankly terrible when it comes to dating.

[poppyfields]

49 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Not true. I am into her. 

Yes now that she's gone, you're into her.  But while IN the relationship when she was smitten with you, you were not, or were ambivalent and uncertain of your feelings for her..

ZA, go back and read your own posts in this thread and your previous one. 

Sure you were compatible and obviously liked her as a person and went through the motions but it was clear from your posts you felt nothing more than that. 

Now that's she gone, and wants you only as a friend, suddenly you're "into her" almost to the point of obsession it would appear.

Not sure if you read my previous post but what you are feeling  and experiencing is not all that uncommon.

And it would be worth your while to explore it because what's likely to happen is IF you do succeed in "winning" her back and she once again becomes smitten with you, YOU will be back to feeling uncertain about your feelings once again.

In other words, you want her because she doesn't want you.

You don't have her and thus there is no pressure or expectations to deliver, on what you don't feel emotionally equipped to deliver anyway. 

So it feels safe, emotionally.

Honestly ZA, read these threads, on other forums as well, it's very common.

It's about fear. 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by poppyfields