REALLY struggling with immediate family and moving on personally

[thr1986]

I’m a 36 yo man. Not married, in a committed 1.5 year long relationship which is very supportive (I think - unless I’m wrong about that). I started drinking socially at 18 when I went to college and was always a bit of a lush but a social lush. Drinking wasn’t uncontrollable for me. It stayed this way through my twenties. Started progressing to heavier and isolated drinking around 30 but still always controllable. It never interfered with work or commitments I had. Covid and being home alone for months allowed my inner alcoholic to present itself in a scary way. I started drinking a LOT. And that progressed to an “uncontrollable” point this year in may (when it started to interfere with my attendance at work - I missed some days at work due to hangovers and refusal to stop drinking alone at home). I was let go from a career job which was a MASSIVE blow to my self esteem. I went to rehab for a 30 day stay. I’ve been sober since July 9th. Go to AA meetings almost every day and have a solid handle on my problem. That’s not what I’m here to talk about.  

During the week ahead of me checking into rehab- my drinking was at its worst ever to date. All day every day. The INTERESTING detail is what I have come to learn is the subconscious driver of my drinking. The week that brought me to rehab I specifically remember the moment I decided to start drinking. It was in reaction to a very upsetting conversation I had with my father. It was a routine type conversation but my patience was just completely exhausted and truly, truly snapped. I was asking him to do something so small to help me with something professionally and he reacted as he always did when it came to me asking him for help with work or career advice - he just turned off and actually hung up on me. He has NO patience to help me with ANY sort of adversity or “problems” or frustrations I’m having. I mean NONE. He can’t tolerate even a moment of a conversation with me if I’m speaking of discomfort in a situation and need him to really focus and help me through something with his life experience. I mean what are dads for right?

this frustration I’m describing in his inability to tolerate me needing him to help me by talking and being supportive and validating my feelings and helping me work through something is coupled with many other frustrations I have with the way he lead our family as the breadwinner and the patriarch. He was and still is VERY controlling. Everything was always about him. He’s always the center of attention in any conversation. You can’t get a word in. He belittled my mother and her family. He definitely kept us from having a relationship with them. (I believe because of his fear of her having an external support network). He was an alcoholic - but highly functioning. He was very successful in business and spends most of his time talking about that. As I grew up, he was always disapproving of my girlfriends, always critical of my friends and of my choices as to who I was friends with. No one was ever good enough and there was something wrong with everyone. In high school I started to become a bit less social because of his anticipated disapproval of anything and anyone I socialized with. But then he would criticize me of being antisocial and would make me feel bad that I wasn’t doing more. It just felt like I couldn’t win and I felt like I was in a glass box being criticized all the time. I couldn’t have opinions about things like politics or current events or what career I wanted unless they were the same as his opinions. I wouldn’t dare have a differing opinion because of the emotional attack I knew I would get. I eventually just became this internally scared and timid and indecisive guy but I think outwardly I was able to appear confident and successful (probably just from observing him my whole life). He constantly plays the devils advocate and he refuses to do things that I see so many parents do like help their kids become successful, give them financial support if they need it and if the parent can afford it. My fathers reluctance to do these things just hurts because he’s a millionaire (maybe a billionaire) I have no clue- and he won’t do anything to help me. If I couldn’t support myself I’d become homeless. He wouldn’t help me. He would just blame me for my situation.

Back to my final week of drinking in may before I quit… I lashed out at him over the phone and told him all of these things I’m angry about. I called him small and insecure for distancing us from my moms family my whole life. I told him how controlling he is and how everything is always about him. Etc etc etc. he got really defensive and started using my sisters (I have two sisters both younger) against me by saying “they don’t feel the way you feel and they’re fine” implying I’m the one at fault here and invalidated all my feelings. He won’t admit any wrong what so ever. He’s cut me off from communication. If I call him he may pickup and talk but he would never call me. And I don’t know if our relationship will ever be repaired. Instead of being curious why I said the things I said or feeling bad what so ever, he just turned his back on me emotionally and verbally. I feel even lonelier now than ever and quite frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if he took me out of his will. He’s just sick. How can you turn your back on your son because he said some hurtful facts that are undispuditedly true. He knows everything I said is true. 
 

I recently started a new job which is a huge achievement. I’m literally working at a Wall Street money management firm and I called him to tell him about it and he kept changing the subject and had zero interest. He can’t say he’s proud. He can’t act interested. He just wants to talk about himself. It’s so frustrating and so f***ing annoying. No validation for my successes and no validation for my opinions expressed regarding my hurts and issues with his clear wrongdoings. He’s just an a**h*** but unfortunately one who effects me tremendously even when I don’t talk to him and I feel so isolated from my family now because he’s spread this negative narrative about me to them saying I’m not well and I’m paranoid and I’m totally off my rocker for saying the stuff to him which I said. I’m so angry. I just want him to validate my feelings and agree with something and MAYBE if I’m lucky gve any sort of apology 

[glows]

Well, congrats on the new job and well done. Is it something you’ve always wanted to do? Can you see yourself growing in that role? It’s hard when family doesn’t give enough support. It sounds like you’re taking steps to find that outside support and lean on others who can help in a big way.

Although it’s not what you’re here to talk about I still want to also commend you for going to rehab, staying sober and going to AA. That’s a huge achievement.

[basil67]

19 minutes ago, thr1986 said:

 I just want him to validate my feelings and agree with something and MAYBE if I’m lucky give any sort of apology 

I too want to congratulate you on getting your life in order.  This is no small achievement.

However, I feel that your father is not the kind of man who will deliver what you're looking for.  Given that you attend AA meetings, I'm sure you're familiar with the Serenity Prayer 

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

The situation with your father clearly falls into the first category.  He's not going to do any of these things because he believes he's right.  I doubt you'd even get him to agree to disagree.  And with all kindness, I think the concept of 'validating feelings' is really only understood by those who've done therapy or are committed to researching personal growth.  I'm Gen X and it's certainly not a concept we were raised with, let alone the boomer generation. 

I think it would be wise to focus on deciding whether or not to keep him in your life.  Perhaps you're simply better off without him.  You say that he's created problems within your immediate family too, so I hope that your sisters and mother understand your feelings and can remain in your life.   Perhaps you can see him at family events and hide your feelings l for the sake of those around you.  Or perhaps you need to distance yourself to the point where you don't see him at all. 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, thr1986 said:

 I went to rehab for a 30 day stay. I’ve been sober since July 9th. Go to AA meetings almost every day 

Excellent. Keep up the good work and focus on sobriety and your health.

Try not to pin this on your father or seek his approval.

[ShyViolet]

19 hours ago, thr1986 said:

I just want him to validate my feelings and agree with something and MAYBE if I’m lucky gve any sort of apology 

One of the most basic realities of life is that you can't control other people.  You can only control what YOU do.

If you have this mindset that your happiness and mental well-being hinges on whether another person "validates" you and gives you an apology, that is a recipe for a lot of unhappiness.  You need to find a way to let this go and detach from this.  You might never get the validation or apology from him.  And that needs to be ok and you need to find some peace within yourself.

[S2B]

Congrats on the sobriety. Don’t expect to have a warm relationship with your father - he’s not capable of this. Not even before your drinking escalated.

when I quit drinking I came to realize that my dad was mean. Really mean. And that I chose mean men in my life based on what I was familiar with.

you are responsible for your behavior. You are not responsible for your dads behavior.

you will be doing yourself a favor to realize that some personalities you won’t want to have in your life. Being focused on your dads character defects isn’t part and parcel of AA - you focus on how YOU participate. You only control yourself - not others. 

mall parents are human - and capable of short comings. Maybe your dad realizes his shortcomings but he’s never going to discuss them with you? Maybe not.

but be realistic - you can’t have a warm a fuzzy relationship with someone who is only focused on themself. 

your expectations aren’t realistic. Adjust your expectations. Expectations will make us disappointed every single time! Expect nothing! 

you do you. Let your dad do himself. pray for him if he’s incapable of helping others.

you help others. That’s what the program is about. That is what will help you stay sober. When you are sponsoring 20-50 people you won’t have time to think about what dad does or doesn’t think of you. YOU be PROUD of YOURSELF! Validation should not be found outside of yourself.

[thr1986]

It's been so hard to feel "proud of myself". I've been thinking a lot recently about how much I have struggled throughout my life going back to early childhood. I was bullied a lot in 1st-5th grade to the extent that I really didnt have any friends and my parents moved me to a new school because of the bullying. My sister (one grade behind me) florished and I've always felt like there was something wrong with me. I did well academically (usually better than her) but she did much better socially. I've always had trouble just generally getting along socially and i've always been aware of that and i've always felt like i just "watch it happen" like I watch myself not get along well and just let it happen. Like, it would feel weird to fit in so I never do and never really  have. I'm an adult now 36 and still struggle. I always feel lonely. I dont have a huge network of friends. I have a girlfriend who loves me but she has a great social life and it makes me feel inadaquate the same way my sister's social life did and the same way my friend's social lives did. It always feels like a matter of time before people dont want to be my friend anymore so i'm never really able to have real friends who care about me. again, it feels like there's something wrong with me. This year I have struggled emotionally maybe more than ever. I have been in rehab twice since october 2021 for alcoholisim. I lost a job for the first time and work has always been my primairy focus, my outlet, my source of validation and personal fulfillment. My everything. and I excel at work usually so its like the one thing i'm really good at and I derive nearly all of my self esteem from it. Losing my job was VERY hard on me because it was indeed the result of alcoholisim. I was never drunk at work or at any work engagements but my absence from a couple of commitments and my month long medical leave in November of 2021 was enough for the company to see the signs and let me go. i don't blame them. it's really hard because while YES i am responsible and at fault, i was really struggling and what i really needed was help. i got the help i needed but at the expense of my job. My family has sort of abandonded me because of all of this too and i feel the same way towards them that i felt towards my company that let me go- i feel like they don't understand and are not willing to try to understand and i resent them for not loving and accepting me the way i know would genuinely help me be a better me. i'm feeling particularly hopeless now regarding my family and as a result of that i'm feeling hopeless about myself, my position in life, my future, and everything really. it seems like every interaction I have with my family now takes a turn towards arguing. there are so many unresolved resentments on my familys end and they didnt and wont seek help for it. They just keep saying time will heal but its been a long time now and nothing changes. It seems to just get worse. I feel very alone and very lonely. I feel unaccepted and black sheeped in a way. Am i homeless and unable to take care of myself? of course not. i'm working again now in a very respectable capacity. most people from afar probably think i'm thriving. but internally i'm hurting so much and the family emotionally shuning me makes it so much worse. I wish more than anything they would call me and say they love and resepect and support me and that they are here for me. it would change my world. i can't undersntad why they can't do that. i've told them that if they would do that it would turn my life around but they just cant be that accomodating. my father seems to make everything about him. he has NEVER had ANY patience when it comes to emotional hardship or frustrations. ive always been cut off, silenced and told "thats tough" "work it out" if I approach him with any problems or just want him to listen to me and validate how i feel. BUT, now its like all he can do is talk about how much stress "i have caused him and my mother" and how "at fault" i am. it just makes my self esteem sink. i dont feel like i'll ever get the validation i need. i'm feeling so hopeless. i dont feel excited about anything anymore and i'm losing faith in myself. no matter how much i achieve i will never feel like i can escape this label i feel from them. I just want my feelings and expressions to be met with "i understand and i'm sorry I love you and im here for you" or even anything other than an interruption and being told my feelings are not true and i'm wrong about whatever I may be expressing. i'm really starting to give up. i've been up all night thinking about all of this and its really hard. I started working at a new firm this week after being unemployed since may. you would think i'd be so excited. but i'm just not. my family doesnt ask how im doing or how work has been at the new job. they dont call. they dont seem to care and that makes me feel small and worthless and most of all hopeless. 

[S2B]

Try to focus on one day at a time.

the resentments didn’t get there overnight. Nor will they leave overnight. When you are consistent the trust may be able to resurface a little at a time - it’s earned.

your dad - don’t hand him all of your power. It’s yours. Read a book called “the four agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz - that book helped me a lot when I got sober.

happiness comes from with. Work in the inside…you do you. 
I got really happy in life when I started sponsoring people. A lot of people. I was so busy I didn’t hardly think of how I felt - my issues - I just stayed in my own lane doing what was best (for me and for others). Staying sober is still (15 years later) my most important requirement for each day. 

[glows]

On 10/18/2022 at 1:46 AM, thr1986 said:

all he can do is talk about how much stress "i have caused him and my mother" and how "at fault" i am. it just makes my self esteem sink. i dont feel like i'll ever get the validation i need. i'm feeling so hopeless. i dont feel excited about anything anymore and i'm losing faith in myself. no matter how much i achieve i will never feel like i can escape this label i feel from them. I just want my feelings and expressions to be met with "i understand and i'm sorry I love you and im here for you" or even anything other than an interruption and being told my feelings are not true and i'm wrong about whatever I may be expressing. i'm really starting to give up. 

This passage here reminds me of some dark times in my life when I felt I didn’t have anyone or at least anyone was on my side or willing to listen. You will just have to be strong and be your own advocate. You can validate yourself. If the pattern has been in yearning for validation from your family/parents for a long time, breaking that habit can be hard. 

I also want to mention that “giving up” can also translate to starting over. Yes, give up seeking validation from others especially people who have shown you they’re not able to do that. Start over validating yourself and living your life the way you want. 

You’ve started the new job a week or so ago. Did you have a chance to celebrate or take some time out with your girlfriend? 

Edited October 20, 2022 by glows

[Acacia98]

I'm a bit familiar with the family dynamics you describe from my own extended family. So you have my sympathy.

The one thing that stands out to me is your apparently eternal hope that who your father is will change and that he, a seemingly insecure, self-centered man, will suddenly become a secure, self-aware, and nurturing man and give you tons of support. Honestly, if he is as you describe him, that is not going to happen. And it's not your fault. It's because he hasn't done the hard work of dealing with his issues (he must have a history of being ground into the dirt himself, perhaps by his own father) and learning to be a better version of himself. Whether or not he ever takes the time to do that is not your burden to carry. You have your own responsibility, which is to deal with your issues and try to be the father you never had to yourself. In other words, you need to get to the point where you can give yourself the encouragement and positive reinforcement you need and start seeking resources that can give you the kind of outside help you need (business advice and loans, psychological counselling and support, etc.).

It's possible that you had an entirely different experience of being parented from your sisters. That might explain why they seem more socially confident. Your father may have treated you the way he did simply because you were his son and, in that sense, you reminded him most of himself. So he parented you the way he was parented, which is the way he thinks boys/men should be parented. Having said that, it is likely that your sisters have deep emotional wounds of their own that you are not aware of or that you are aware of but don't focus on in this post.

I have a suggestion. Go to a search engine and search for "Dr Ramani narcissism". Dr Ramani's YouTube videos will pop up. Pick some of the shorter ones and just start watching them in whatever order pleases you. I like her videos because they shed light on unhealthy family dynamics, including the ones you describe here. So even if none of your family members is a narcissist, you can still gain a lot of insight into their behavior and your own behavior by watching the videos. I think watching the videos will allow you to view your family from some distance. And distance is what you need to unpack some of the stuff you're going through.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Acacia98

[Noproblem]

I am glad that

1. You went to rehab and doing great toward being sober.

2. You confronted your dad.

3. You got a new job.

You are doing amazing and great.

You need 3 things

1. therapy 

2. don't talk to your dad at all

3. you need to make more friends and do fun activites. 

 

All in all, I am proud of you and if he is not proud, that is his loss, not yours.

You don't need him or his money!

 

[S2B]

If a family member has never been capable of showing you validation and acknowledging your feelings = don’t expect that they ever will.

that’s on them.

you need to adjust your expectations. 
 

if they aren’t capable - expect nothing for emotional support. Some people just aren’t capable of acknowledging emotions.