is it me, or.

[confused_]

After a few years of exclusively raising up the kids, my wife has finally taken time outside the home. The kids have grown enough and she went back to work and going out with her friends. I was always supportive of her full time mom needs, and I helped her reclaim time her personal life again.

Lately she began being very cautious with her phone. She started going out more often. She also took a few short trips with her besties in the countryside. I never asked any deep details of this activity and I encouraged her to enjoy herself.

At a recent night out, she had a reunion with her besties from abroad, who they stayed at a hotel of friend. She came back from this night out at 5 am. She didn't tell me any details of that night. I had a bad feeling and, for the first time in my life, I stalked on her. I went to her location history to see that she went on a bar crawl, and went to the last bar only to leave after half an hour, to go back to her friends' hotel, where she stayed for like 1,5 hour before coming back home. I freaked out when I saw that she left to go back to the hotel, stay this long, and then come back home.

When I asked her about her night out, she told me that she came home straight after the last bar. I revealed her that I had checked her location history and I knew this was a lie. She then told me that she went back to the hotel to have some more drinks and recreational drugs, and she thought she shouldn't tell me because I'd be oversuspicious or intrusive, and she would like to keep some things for herself.

I didn't carry on asking her details. You should know that I apologized her throughout about invading her privacy, I talked to her at a calm manner and tried to listen and be understanding, same as I was open to discussing the reasons I did this. Bear in mind that I never checked on her nor went overly suspicious or stalker.

A couple of days have passed and I cannot find peace with her excuse. It doesn't add up. There was no reason for them to leave a bar where they were having fun and drinking, to go carry on drinking and using at a dead quiet hotel so late. Drug use is something she only did a few times when she was younger. After a light use of drugs, she should be more alert and face difficulties in sleeping, whereas she passed out almost immediately after coming back. I checked one more time her browsing history and saw that she was searching for privacy protection software. 

While we both try to carry on with life, I cannot sleep at night thinking all these. Am I the crazy over-suspicious husband that needs immediately consulting? Are my suspicions on a solid ground? Should I talk more about it and confront my thoughts about her excuse? What would you do in my situation? Any feedback would me much appreciated.

Thank you.

Edited October 13, 2022 by confused_

[basil67]

39 minutes ago, confused_ said:

There was no reason for them to leave a bar where they were having fun and drinking, to go carry on drinking and using at a dead quiet hotel so late.

I can think of four valid reasons without even trying

1. a couple of them were getting overwhelmed by the noise of the bar and wanted to go to somewhere quieter. (I have noise sensitivity and suggest going somewhere quieter all the time)

2. guys were trying to hit on them and they got annoyed

3. they could have bought alcohol from the store which would be much cheaper than buying in a bar - which tallies up with your wife's story

4. if it was a nice hotel, they wanted to see what it was like

Since you were tracking your wife, you'd know what hotel she went to.  Was it the same one that her friend was staying in?   If so, I can't see a reason to doubt her truth.

Further, I assume you've got trackers on each other's phones for convenience, safety and by mutual consent.  If she was doing something where she didn't want to be caught, don't you think she'd invent an excuse to turn the tracker off?  Or perhaps she'd change the password to her phone?

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by basil67

[BaileyB]

Regardless of whether she cheated or not, I would have a real problem with the fact that she is staying out until all hours and using drugs. I would be supportive of her going out with her friends and having a little fun once in a while, but these seem to be irresponsible choices all around. Are you honestly ok with your wife and the mother of your children behaving like a teen/college student? 

[confused_]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If she was doing something where she didn't want to be caught, don't you think she'd invent an excuse to turn the tracker off?  Or perhaps she'd change the password to her phone?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. She had no idea her location can be tracked if you have it enabled. I had no idea myself until I googled it.

Thanks for pointing out some reasons, they all seem to have much sense.

I know them well and it is not their style to end a night like that because of someone's sensitivity or guys hitting on them. They are all independent and strong. They like to be out and dance and drink, not carry on at 4 am at a hotel where they are not allowed to even talk loud at such time, let alone drink and have more fun. I keep suspecting, after our discussion, because apart from the above, the way she explained me was not convincing, she had blurry details, and she didn't seem to care to ease my concern.

I am not going to stalk her again because I already feel like an a** for doing so. I had a defensive position when I talked to her about it because I felt so bad with my action so I didn't ask for clarifications. 

Doesn't change the fact that I feel sh*t both about my stalking and my continued suspicions.

[confused_]

8 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Regardless of whether she cheated or not, I would have a real problem with the fact that she is staying out until all hours and using drugs. I would be supportive of her going out with her friends and having a little fun once in a while, but these seem to be irresponsible choices all around. Are you honestly ok with your wife and the mother of your children behaving like a teen/college student? 

She is not a user or a heavy drinker, on the contrary. I assume the drugs excuse, if it's real, would be something that appeared from a friend of a friend and she said something like why not, it's just one time.

Nor she is going out drinking until late hours like that. Lately, as I posted at the beginning, she began going out frequently, demanding privacy, taking good care of her looks and asking to keep details about herself. I was and I am ok with her doing this and taking some time to feel like her old self a little bit again, since she spent a lot of years inside four walls raising children.

what I cannot bear atm is the fact that she lied and the fact that her excuse doesn't make much sense to my ears.

Edited October 13, 2022 by confused_

[basil67]

People tend to lie when they think they will get in trouble for something.   And this is directly reflected by her response "she shouldn't tell me because I'd be over suspicious or intrusive" which is exactly what happened.   This, on top of you being unable to accept that there would be any legitimate reason to return to the hotel makes me think there could be correlation in your opposing positions.

If I was your wife, I'd honest about going back to the hotel where friends were staying.  And so would my husband to me.  But neither of us would question this for a minute because it makes perfect sense.  

If you were to have found her at a hotel during the middle of the day, at a time when she didn't have friends staying at that hotel, then you'd have high cause for alarm.  

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by basil67

[glows]

2 hours ago, confused_ said:

She then told me that she went back to the hotel to have some more drinks and recreational drugs, and she thought she shouldn't tell me because I'd be oversuspicious or intrusive, and she would like to keep some things for herself.

This is your problem in your marriage unfortunately. She doesn’t trust you and your reactions. You don’t trust her and her judgment. Overall no trust = no relationship. The marriage is a sham and you may be together out of comfort and support over the years but you’re not truly comfortable or trusting of one another. 

You’ll have to ask yourself whether you can learn to trust your wife and rebuild what you both might have neglected or abused in each other for so long. It’s not going to work without trusting each other.

[confused_]

54 minutes ago, S2B said:

 

Thanks for your time and your reply!

I believe that in an honest relationship, things like the time you head back home shouldn't be a concern. Modern lifestyle and keeping a house together doesn't allow people to go out until so late hours anyways. It's not like she or I are doing this. But I could never dictate her or agree on an expected coming back home time. I wouldn't want it for myself because we are reasonable adults.

My concern is a) as I had a gut feeling that something was not alright with her night out, I still has a voice inside my head telling me that the excuse she gave me is not valid and I should have insisted on her telling me more details or confront the excuse. Is it my sick jealousy or should I accept my feeling and try to find out more?

and b) how do we both move on from now, as I have to feel and show trust to her from now on that she's gonna be honest without resorting to stalking, and she has to feel that she's in a trusted environment where she's not being stalked.

[glows]

8 hours ago, confused_ said:

My concern is a) as I had a gut feeling that something was not alright with her night out, I still has a voice inside my head telling me that the excuse she gave me is not valid and I should have insisted on her telling me more details or confront the excuse. Is it my sick jealousy or should I accept my feeling and try to find out more?

and b) how do we both move on from now, as I have to feel and show trust to her from now on that she's gonna be honest without resorting to stalking, and she has to feel that she's in a trusted environment where she's not being stalked.

A) I disagree with trying to find out more. If you can’t trust what she’s saying this marriage is already over. You’re coming across as controlling and jealous. She already told you she thinks you’re over-intrusive and suspicious. How many years has she had to endure that, I’m curious to know. It’s clear she’s found her freedom and dislikes telling you everything because she sees how intrusive and suspicious you are of her. 

End this misery and divorce if you find yourself stalking and questioning her every move. It’s not reasonable to continue this way. 

B) See a professional if you can’t get your fears or anxiety under control. Please stop seeking to control her or stalk her. You married her for a reason so dig deeper and ask yourself if there’s anything left to continue this marriage or whether you’re finished with it. If you’ve never actually trusted her at all in your marriage the problem is you, not her.

[mark clemson]

There is probably a middle ground here between not letting yourself obsess over this ONE incident that was probably nothing AND keeping half an eye on her just to be sure this isn't the start of some sort of new behavior pattern and nothing weird is going on beyond whatever did or didn't happen that night.

[Weezy1973]

Seeing a sudden change in our partners behavior understandably sparks concern. Looking nice to go out with her friends is pretty normal though. Her lying is suspicious though. Why would she think she’d “get in trouble” if there was nothing to get in trouble about? It’s not like there’s this long history of jealousy on your relationship as far as I can tell.

[BaileyB]

47 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Why would she think she’d “get in trouble” if there was nothing to get in trouble about?

She had to know that even if she had done nothing wrong, her behavior was suspicious and/or pushing the boundaries of what a husband would find acceptable. Not many men would be accepting of their wife and the mother of their children coming home at 5am (particularly if it’s becoming more of a regular occurrence, and you do not that there is a change of behavior here). That’s not something that I’ve ever known any of my happily married friends to do. Add to that some drug use and she knows that she is flirting with what would be considered by many to be a reasonable boundary…

Edited October 13, 2022 by BaileyB

[poppyfields]

OP, based on everything you've posted, her secrecy most of all but also the fact she was out drinking and partying, spent 1.5 hours at the hotel which she lied to you about, didn't come home till 5:00 a.m, and now is researching privacy protection, putting it all together would suggest she cheated. 

It was most likely a meaningless ONS, but nevertheless, something  to be concerned about. 

I wouldn't bother confronting, she will flat out deny and blame you for being overly suspicious and distrustful, that's how it typically goes. 

Is it something to divorce her over? That's up to you depending on how everything else in your marriage is going. 

But something is definitely off about her behavior that night, do not ignore. 

Continue observing, the truth will eventually come out one way or another, it always does. 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

One more thing.

Her excuse for not telling you about going back to hotel, that YOU would over-react, become overly suspicious, that's a load of *.

IOW, it's YOUR fault she didn't tell you, it's YOUR fault she lied. 

Do not fall for that, it's what all cheaters say when caught in a lie or withholding the truth. 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by poppyfields

[Els]

What exactly are you worried about?

If you're worried about her physically cheating on you during the 1.5 hour "break" in the hotel, it sounds unlikely. If she WAS indeed cheating and intended to hide it from you, I think there would have been a strong instinct to turn off location tracking, delete tracking history, or any other basic methods that a cheater who was determined to hide would employ. Based on the fact that she did absolutely nothing to cover her tracks, it sounds less like she was doing something that she knew was wrong (i.e. cheating), and more like she was doing something that she thought should be okay but didn't feel like she needed to mention.

It sounds to me like she was, indeed, using recreational drugs. Is this a problem? For me, the answer would be yes... especially for certain kinds of drugs. What about for you?

Quote

I know them well and it is not their style to end a night like that because of someone's sensitivity or guys hitting on them. They are all independent and strong. They like to be out and dance and drink, not carry on at 4 am at a hotel where they are not allowed to even talk loud at such time

You can't do drugs in a bar, and the vast majority of reasonably expensive hotels have soundproofing.

[basil67]

OP, we've all given lots of opinions.  What do YOU think she was doing at the hotel with her friends?

 

 

 

[glows]

You may realize, OP, it’s utterly futile to keep going at this pace questioning and being distrustful of your partner. You came here to ask if it’s you or her and I think it’s a marriage already on the rocks and neither of you owning up to that or facing that it was over a long time ago. She wouldn’t feel the need to hide info or lie if you hadn’t proved to be jealous and intrusive in the past. She’s already told you that. 

[confused_]

Thank you all for your replies.

We had a long and calm conversation yesterday where I explained her the reasons I was not feeling well with her explanations.

She gave me further explanations about that night which I found ok for now. Long story short, she and her friends went back to the hotel to spend some time, do some drugs that one of them had with her, and leave to another place to carry on the night out (bear in mind that in the country where I come from, massive night-outs are usually between 23:00 to 07:00am). My wife decided to call it a night and came back.

She was not aware of the location tracking that Google keeps, and I searched to find out her routes. She has now switched everything off.

From her pov, she told me that she feels intimidated by my action to stalk her, and she tried to find ways to keep her privacy intact (that explains her search for privacy apps which I found on her history). I understand that it is not a fair thing to be stalked and I wouldn't want to feel the same.

I cannot be 100% sure about it so I'm trying to stop thinking about it. I have all the reasons in the world to believe her. It's not her style to go out and randomly do drugs and come late without telling me things. It has happened a couple of times in the past month though, and she explained me what I already knew, that her going out and feel a bit carefree with friends is something she hasn't done in almost a decade and it's not what she wants to be defined with.

We agreed that we need to pay attention to eachother, same as we do with our kids and jobs, and never lie to each other again. Deep down I understand that a crack has been made inside me, even with this seemingly little white lie. I will try to work with that. I keep telling myself that I have to be always there, listening and being active with our relationship and her needs. She has to do the same for me. We cannot make it work now and in the future if we keep misbehaving to eachother.

 

[Els]

2 hours ago, confused_ said:

From her pov, she told me that she feels intimidated by my action to stalk her, and she tried to find ways to keep her privacy intact (that explains her search for privacy apps which I found on her history). I understand that it is not a fair thing to be stalked and I wouldn't want to feel the same.

I cannot be 100% sure about it so I'm trying to stop thinking about it. I have all the reasons in the world to believe her. It's not her style to go out and randomly do drugs and come late without telling me things. It has happened a couple of times in the past month though, and she explained me what I already knew, that her going out and feel a bit carefree with friends is something she hasn't done in almost a decade and it's not what she wants to be defined with.

This all makes sense to me. I think that if you have concerns about drug use or frequent 5am nights (to the extent that it interferes with her ability to function), that's a legitimate issue to talk to her about, but if you choose to carry on in a relationship with this person, you have to be able to trust her. If you feel the need to stalk her constantly, then it's already over and you should be looking into separation, IMO.

2 hours ago, confused_ said:

(bear in mind that in the country where I come from, massive night-outs are usually between 23:00 to 07:00am)

Yes, there is definitely a cultural element at play here, too. I was befuddled by one of the posters' comments that they were home at 10pm every night just because they had an "agreement" with their spouse... I'm happily married, but I would find that sort of arrangement extremely stifling and probably a dealbreaker. But that's also because I grew up in a country where you'd arrive home after 10pm even if you were 10 years old and having dinner with your parents at your grandmother's house... 😂 Whereas I guess that in some countries 10pm is genuinely considered "late". So you do have to bear in mind that everyone posting here is doing so from their own cultural context, and you have to consider your own.

[LynneVicious]

Workplace affairs are the most common. Given that she just started work, and has done this a few times in the last month, and lied, and now wants to ‘protect’ her privacy, I’d bet she’s cheating. Sorry, but the signs are there. 

[ ] 

Trust, but verify. Do you two have an open phone policy or is hers password protected?

Edited October 15, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed suggestion of illegal activity

[confused_]

2 hours ago, Elswyth said:

This all makes sense to me. I think that if you have concerns about drug use or frequent 5am nights (to the extent that it interferes with her ability to function), that's a legitimate issue to talk to her about, but if you choose to carry on in a relationship with this person, you have to be able to trust her. If you feel the need to stalk her constantly, then it's already over and you should be looking into separation, IMO.

My suspicions over her night out were a mixture of small details and a gut feeling that turned out to show me that she lied to me. I heard what she had to say and I will focus on fixing my kinda broken trust, but mostly I have to work more on the reasons she had to tell me a lie. I love her and appreciate her, people reading this might think she's like a legit drug user and a careless party animal but she hasn't been like that since her twenties. So I must offer her a sincere environment of safety, trust, acceptance and love. And she has to never lie about anything again and try to avoid getting in messy situations.

What I find particularly scary is that, when I decided I need to find something out, I googled about ways to check online activity and that's how I learned that Google keeps a track of every single movement you make if you have the feature enabled. Obviously she didn't have a clue either and that's how I'd seen it. What I mentioned as scary is the feeling of control and authority you have over a person when you are performing such an action. I admit I liked it when I was checking such a private thing. On the one hand I was hating myself because never in my life had I done such a thing - I never even peek her screen when a message pops, and never done it in any previous relationship. But on the other hand, getting such and insight over her privacy made me feel like a god or something. I am not going to ever do it again but undoubtedly I can now understand what sort of pleasure people who are consistently stalking on their spouses are getting.

[ExpatInItaly]

I actually wouldn't be so quick to pander to her either, OP. 

It's not as though she's conducting herself in an upstanding manner here. Sure, you can make her comfortable so she doesn't lie again - but she could also be more mindful that most husbands aren't going to be thrilled with their wives out drinking and taking drugs until dawn. 

If she wants to be trusted, she could also consider how her own behaviour is counter-productive to that. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by ExpatInItaly

[confused_]

19 hours ago, glows said:

You may realize, OP, it’s utterly futile to keep going at this pace questioning and being distrustful of your partner. You came here to ask if it’s you or her and I think it’s a marriage already on the rocks and neither of you owning up to that or facing that it was over a long time ago. She wouldn’t feel the need to hide info or lie if you hadn’t proved to be jealous and intrusive in the past. She’s already told you that. 

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It's not that I ever gave her a hard time, questioned her in a bad way, or went crazy with a reaction or jealousy. I am sometimes making small comments that are supposed jokes but there is a hint of suspicion behind. The real reason I believe she hid something so small from me, is that I know the background of her particular friends who have cheated before and one of them brought the drugs. So I reckon she didn't want to tell me because she'd know it would validate them as even more unreliable people and I would use it in a future argument or something. And while I don't want to interfere with her relationships with friends, especially long friendships, I have to say that they are kind of a bad influence in the long term. But I will focus on making her feel comfortable and trusted rather than pointing out why her friends suck.

[BaileyB]

44 minutes ago, confused_ said:

I think I will try to work on the reasons she lied, trying to make her feel comfortable, and make sure that she never lies again.

If she is going to lie or cheat, there is little that you can do to prevent that. You certainly can’t “make sure that she never lies again.”

Personally, I would suggest that you set your own boundaries in terms of what you are willing to accept from your spouse. And then, if she crosses those boundaries again - you have a decision to make. 

You seem like a good and kind person, I hope she isn’t one of those people who is willing to take advantage of your kindness. Personally, I don’t believe that you are wrong for your distrust - her behavior has not exactly been trustworthy. I think we have intuition for a reason. I hope in your willingness to be a good spouse, you don’t make it easier for her to cheat. Best wishes. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by BaileyB

[confused_]

15 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I actually wouldn't be so quick to pander to her either, OP. 

It's not as though she's conducting herself in an upstanding manner here. Sure, you can make her comfortable so she doesn't lie again - but she could also be more mindful that most husbands aren't going to be thrilled with their wives out drinking and taking drugs until dawn. 

If she wants to be trusted, she could also consider how her own behaviour is counter-productive to that. 

That was exactly my point when we had a longer discussion. She admitted that if she were to find out something like that, she'd go full aggressive on me. I'll focus on the stuff I need in order to be more understanding and trustful, but I am expecting more respect and transparency from her side. It's not like I went mad on her over a suspicion. I stalked her, I admitted it asking explanations and I was open to discuss the reasons I did it. For our marriage's sake, I hope both listened carefully to eachother after this incident and our conversation.