is it me, or.

[ExpatInItaly]

I think boundaries aside, there is obviously a very deep disconnect in your marriage. 

So while you two navigate the boundaries and expectations of each other, you very much need to address the fact that you two are growing apart. 

[Alpacalia]

15 hours ago, confused_ said:

She is uninterested in spending quality time together. I quote her: "why go on a date together? We will talk about the kids, the errands all over again and we 'll end up at our phones. It would be more fun if we were going out with a friendly couple or each one alone with their besties, instead of a date". I understand that this is true as our life is revolving around these matters and we spend so much time together at home to be fresh enough to have an amazing date. Even though the 506 times we went on a date over the past few years, it was way better that this statement. While I understand her saying this, it kinda hurt my feelings.

Yes, I can see how that would be hurtful.

It is a sign that your wife has other interests than you when she rebuffs your requests for time with her or announces how she has already planned to spend time without you.

It seems that you lost her interest somewhere along the line. Maybe due to a lack of depth in emotional connection. That emotional connection that women are so anchored by. Most likely, the degeneration happened slowly and steadily. There may have been a time when the roles were reversed and she may have stopped pushing you to spend time with her or nurture the marriage, and she was left with one question: how not to lose herself in it?

It would make sense for her to compensate for the emotional and physical absence by rekindling her social life and building a parallel life with no space for you. Whether you choose to stay and fight to save your marriage or walk away is the question at this point.

If you choose to stay and work on the marriage she, for her part, may or may not play along, depending on how far she’s drifted away.

[BaileyB]

17 hours ago, confused_ said:

When she expressed the feeling that she feels alone and with no social life, I did everything in my power to help her. I am always taking over the kids so she can go out, I kept them one week on my own this summer so she can travel alone for the first time in 6 years to meet her friends.

My dear friend could have written you last post - she was feeling the monotony of family life, she felt like all she did was drive the children to their activities. She became disconnected from her husband, who was always travelling for work. She began to look for opportunities to travel. She wanted to socialize because she felt like she had missed her youth. She cheated, she became suicidal, and she ultimately divorced her husband. She is an extreme example but the feelings are the same…

This woman is crying out for help but there is not much you can do if she has decided that she doesn’t want to invest in your marriage. She would rather go out with friends than with you because all the two of you share in common now are the children and life’s daily responsibilities. 

This is not really your problem to solve. Sure, you can take the kids and let her go and have her fun but she is searching for “something” and that something is not your marriage right now. My best advice, she needs individual counselling and then the two of you need marriage counselling. She needs to figure out what she wants and then the two of you need ti decide if she/you are willing to reinvest in the marriage. 

To say this is about her desire to have a social life and your willingness to let her go/allow her to feel safe in doing so is missing the real problems here…

Edited October 16, 2022 by BaileyB

[confused_]

She is always proactive when it comes to the household or the kids. Whhen the night comes, she takes long sessions on her phone just scrolling, and she leaves it down just to watch something together. I am not dramatically different than this, I was doing the same and maybe worse like three years ago, when my previous job was until late hours and I was exhausted. She told me a few times and I have made significant progress. 

She has zero sexual desire, she doesn't feel the need to spend quality time as a couple. I understand that I made things worse over the years by being indifferent, neglecting her needs from time to time, gaining some weight etc. I guess part of all that comes naturally when you are engaging in a married life. But I know I could have done so much better.

When we discussed about all these, she was reassuring that nothing has changed in terms of her feelings. She shows interest to leave down the phone and discuss. We hug and kiss more these days but we will see about this in the long term.

I want to stay active and alert on her needs and improve myself on things like physical appearance - today I began gym after many years. I keep thinking that if I am the husband I ought to be, things will be better if she says that the feelings haven't changed. I hope they haven't.

[Els]

I'm not sure if you have discussed this, but I think MC could help both of you work through your feelings, communicate them to each other, and work on a plan together to improve your marriage. Is she open to doing this with you?

[confused_]

36 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

I'm not sure if you have discussed this, but I think MC could help both of you work through your feelings, communicate them to each other, and work on a plan together to improve your marriage. Is she open to doing this with you?

In theory we are both positive. In practice, both me and her will bring forward excuses of not seeking MC. It's not exactly lame excuses, we have a tight lifestyle of working a lot and raising a six and a four year-old. But we don't really feel like we need to do so. I guess we are hiding from facing a reality here.

[Els]

5 minutes ago, confused_ said:

In theory we are both positive. In practice, both me and her will bring forward excuses of not seeking MC. It's not exactly lame excuses, we have a tight lifestyle of working a lot and raising a six and a four year-old. But we don't really feel like we need to do so. I guess we are hiding from facing a reality here.

Unfortunately it sounds like you are both going to have to make time, if you want to try and make this work. I mean, if she can take time off work to travel with friends, surely a 1-hr MC session once a week is not too much to ask? Could you not arrange a babysitter for your children during that time?

[Will am I]

On 10/15/2022 at 11:20 PM, confused_ said:

We don't spend quality time together for years now. As we had no help with the kids from our parents, we were (and are) fading out watching series almost every night, for years now. None of us initiated this, it just happened for both of us.

I guess that's how it often goes in longer relationships. 

On 10/15/2022 at 11:20 PM, confused_ said:

She is uninterested in spending quality time together. I quote her: "why go on a date together? We will talk about the kids, the errands all over again and we 'll end up at our phones. It would be more fun if we were going out with a friendly couple or each one alone with their besties, instead of a date". I understand that this is true as our life is revolving around these matters and we spend so much time together at home to be fresh enough to have an amazing date. 

This is more worrying. I don't sense a real interest in reviving the romantic relationship.

The double date is actually a nice idea. More conversation with other people can also spark creativaty and interest in your relationship. It gives you new perspectives, new conversation subjects, new jokes, a new sense of joy. Experiencing fun together does help the bonding. But this double date idea is not a substitute for a real husband/wife date night. 

The suggestion that you each go out separately with your besties sounds like a really bad idea. If that becomes the substitute for spending time together, you're essentially taking a small step out of the marriage. Imagine you'd never go out with your wife but you would both hang with separate frend groups every week for 52 weeks straight. At home you talk about mundane stuff like groceries and budgets and bedtimes; with your friends you experience the fun, the laughter, the interpersonal communication, the real talks. Each one of you would have one foot out of the marriage after that year.

Have you expressed to your wife that you miss her and want to be closer to her? I think it's a vulnerable bot also a powerful statement. It's also a pivot. Either she will express that she misses you too and would like to reconnect too. Or she won't and you may draw your own conclusions.

 

You can suggest leaving your phones at home and maybe bringing only a feature phone in case you need to be on call for the babysitter.

[confused_]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:56 PM, Will am I said:

Have you expressed to your wife that you miss her and want to be closer to her?

We had a conversation where I expressed this to her and she agreed that it is true and that she also wants to spend more time together. I know that she prefers us to hang out with other people together than going on a date alone. But I think at least we understood each other and we'll figure out ways to get out of the routine as a couple. 

[poppyfields]

OP, are you familiar with Esther Perel? 

She is a renowned psychotherapist and relationship counselor, she has many books and videos on the market and has helped hundreds of couples experiencing the same issues as you and your wife. 

A great video (TED Talks series on YouTube) I recommend that my husband and I watched even though we are newlyweds is:

"The Secret to Maintaining Desire in a Long Term Relationship."

Sit back with a bottle of wine and watch this with your wife.  

I'd love to discuss all the many gems my husband and I took from it but it would take much too long. 

Google it, read about and watch. 

It may save your marriage if that's in fact what you both want.

Edited October 18, 2022 by poppyfields

[ExpatInItaly]

17 hours ago, confused_ said:

I know that she prefers us to hang out with other people together than going on a date alone. 

This is alarming, OP. 

I hope you realize that. When your own wife prefers to see other people than have a date with you, your marriage is in serious trouble. She sounds like she's really checking out. See what the next little while brings but you also might need to be prepared for a harder truth coming your way. 

[Wiseman2]

On 10/16/2022 at 11:59 AM, confused_ said:

She has zero sexual desire, she doesn't feel the need to spend quality time as a couple. 

The first place to start is not marriage therapy, it's yourself. 

Start by seeing a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. Ask for a referral to a qualified therapist for ongoing support.

Make some lifestyle changes. Join some groups and clubs, volunteer, get involved in sports and fitness, take some classes and courses. Become busy, interesting and mysterious.

Reconsider poor lifestyle choices like drugs and alcohol. These may have been fun years ago but they may be contributing to the inertia now.

Just make the changes without discussion. Let her wonder what's up with you and your newfound attractiveness both physically and mentally.

Become less of a complacent tuned out dad in a rut. The both of you bored with each other just scrolling through your phones while in front of the TV is clearly a disconnect. 

Sadly when people coast along complacently and let themselves go physically and mentally, it takes it's toll.

However you can turn this around for yourself in a win-win fashion. By focusing on yourself and your health, whether or not your marriage works out, you'll still be that much better off.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Wiseman2

[confused_]

21 hours ago, poppyfields said:

OP, are you familiar with Esther Perel? 

I wasn't until your suggestion. I watched tons of her material last night (european time zone) amd I found her trully inspiring. I saved her TED talks to watch tham with my wife tonight. Thank you so much about bringing her videos up! 

[Els]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:48 PM, confused_ said:

We had a conversation where I expressed this to her and she agreed that it is true and that she also wants to spend more time together. I know that she prefers us to hang out with other people together than going on a date alone. But I think at least we understood each other and we'll figure out ways to get out of the routine as a couple. 

Is it actually true that when you go out on a date, all you talk about is the kids and logistics? If that's true, then it might be worth having a "these topics are off the table" rule for date nights specifically, if she agrees to it. It will feel awkward at first but I think you will both really appreciate it, if the desire for re-establishing the connection is mutual.

[confused_]

Half a year has passed since the crisis me and my wife had. Here are some updates.

At first, a small recap:
Wife, 36 years old both of us, sit-at-home mom for almost 5 years. She began working and being socially active again almost 2 years ago.
Began acting secretive, going out with friends a lot more often, until I found out that she had been lying about a night-out that ended up at a hotel with her friends doing recreational drugs. Her excuse was that she was afraid telling me the truth because I'd overreact.

Since then, we agreed that we will work both on trust and on couple improvement issues. I have made some efforts to find peace with the particular incident and become a better version of myself: I lost 45 lbs and I need 7 more to reach my pre-marriage weight. I had kind of neglected my physical appearance over these years but now I am not anymore. I have been bringing some decent money to the family table, more than before, and been working more than ever to provide even more. I have tried even more to listen to her needs and be an active listener, to create some free time just for the two of us, to keep working on being as good as I have to be.

On the other hand, she has been more distant than ever. She comes up with excuses to create some time for a date. She came up with silly excuses when I tried to arrange an away weekend for the two of us. And lately, when I confronted her about our situation, her response was this, more or less:

"I don't feel intimate with you. It has been years since I was a SAHM and you were working, that we would end up watching TV with zero interaction and you falling asleep at 10pm. I see all of your efforts but right now I need time for myself, to think and find peace. I don't need any drama at the moment. Just leave me alone, lets be kind and positive to each other for the kids' sake, and something might change between us at some point too. I began therapy to find some relief about my feelings and about how to be a better mother that I feel I haven't been for long now."

I honestly do not know how to react to all these. Even when I wasn't active towards her emotional needs, I never neglected her, always been by her side and raised the kids actively too in all possible ways. I endorsed every personal decision she has taken for 2 years now, giving her time alone and spending almost 30 weekends a year alone with the kids so she can work and do activities that she enjoys. I took care of my physical appearance, took a lot of the home responsibilities on me, carried on giving her time and space. 

But when I hear my wife practically saying "I don't want to have sex or spend time with you anymore, at least until I find myself again, and we will see how this goes" I feel like completely emotionally destroyed.

I tried to discuss this more but she is always like "I have asked you one million times to stop bringing this subject up, I need some fun and positivity and not problems and issues in my head over and over again, please accept the way I feel".

In my mind there are two options: Option 1: Keep trying to be the best version of myself as a father and a husband, and wait for her. Option 2: Do something more active, that obviously I dont know what would it be. I feel that my patience is running out.

[Weezy1973]

You can’t jump through hoops for her. I’d keep being a great father and work on yourself for you. She’s checked out of the marriage and is now just staying with you for the kids. And none of it is your fault. She just decided she doesn’t want to be married to you anymore and is going through the motions. 

[Els]

 

On 3/28/2023 at 10:56 PM, confused_ said:

"I don't feel intimate with you. It has been years since I was a SAHM and you were working, that we would end up watching TV with zero interaction and you falling asleep at 10pm. I see all of your efforts but right now I need time for myself, to think and find peace. I don't need any drama at the moment. Just leave me alone, lets be kind and positive to each other for the kids' sake, and something might change between us at some point too. I began therapy to find some relief about my feelings and about how to be a better mother that I feel I haven't been for long now."

It sounds like the marriage is effectively over for her and has been for years. You've tried to fix things for half a year, unfortunately it isn't working and she isn't going to try to help make things work. You need two hands to clap, and right now you are essentially just clapping thin air. You may have to decide whether remaining in this "marriage" is acceptable to you, or if you want to start talking about splitting up and co-parenting.
 

On 3/28/2023 at 10:56 PM, confused_ said:

I honestly do not know how to react to all these. Even when I wasn't active towards her emotional needs, I never neglected her, always been by her side and raised the kids actively too in all possible ways. I endorsed every personal decision she has taken for 2 years now, giving her time alone and spending almost 30 weekends a year alone with the kids so she can work and do activities that she enjoys. I took care of my physical appearance, took a lot of the home responsibilities on me, carried on giving her time and space. 

In all honesty, this sounds to me like... co-parenting. The emotional intimacy is what separates a romantic relationship from co-parents, so if this was genuinely how things were for years, I can understand why she checked out (although I do feel she should have made the effort to communicate and fix these issues BEFORE it all got to this point).

But here's the thing... if you have been content to co-parent for years and years before this, what changed? Why were you content to be this way before, but not any longer? Is it just the realization that she now has a life of her own, and that you are not included in it?

Edited March 29, 2023 by Els