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Sexless Marriage for 5 years now.


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Some people are OK in a sexless marriage, many others are not. I can also see how you remain "bonded" if you cuddle a lot (and no doubt for many other reasons).

It's been 5 years. How will you feel after another 5. Then another 5 after that, etc. At some point you'll reach a time when your main option will be to look back on and "mourn" your lost/unfulfilling decades.

To me, the sensible course is to discuss with her, explain that it's important to you and not let it be brushed aside, and see if you can find a mutually acceptable way for your needs to be met. That might end up becoming a difficult discussion, so seeing a therapist together to be a sort of "referee" may help.

Not certain that will work, but to me it seems there's at least a reasonable chance.

Edited by mark clemson
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47 is way too young to be told (unilateral decision) that you'll never have sex again. I did a little reading and I did not see any mention of loss of libido as a primary symptom; all the articles say it's a secondary symptom often caused by medication or chronic pain. Was your wife's libido healthy before, as in did she really enjoy sex, or might she have been going along because it was included in the marital contract? It seems to me that if she really enjoyed it she would be trying to figure out how to get it back.

If she's not willing to even try then it leaves you no good options I'm afraid. Do you ever talk about it with her, and have you explained how distressing it is for you? I can see how difficult that might be given that she's the one with the awful disease, but it seems to me that she should also be concerned with how it affects you and the marriage... as opposed to just informing you that that aspect of your life is over. Like Mark said, some men might be able to accept it, but all you have written indicates that you aren't one of them.

So what are the options? 1. acceptance, 2. divorce, 3. cheat, 4. take a mistress/open marriage. I guess a 5th would be none of the above, which is where you are now and it's obviously not satisfactory. If I were in your shoes I'd consider no. 4. Have the talk and tell her that you really don't want to have sex with anyone else, but you can't accept never having sex. You don't want a divorce, and you aren't going to go behind her back. That pretty much leaves  one option. Sorry man, I know it's hard. 

Edited by salparadise
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On 10/18/2022 at 4:14 PM, Elswyth said:

I don't just mean hugging and cuddling, though (although that is part of it, and it's a good sign!). I was also referring to sexual touching, oral, toys, hands, etc. There are lots of things that fall within the realm of "sex" but don't involve vaginal intercourse - otherwise lesbian and gay folks would never have "sex".

No, none of that happens in our relationship.

On 10/18/2022 at 4:14 PM, Elswyth said:

Look, PIV is nice and all, but realistically speaking, as we all get older, our bodies start to fail and that is one of the first sexual acts to become unviable. Men get ED (and not everyone can take cialis), women go through menopause and get thinning of vaginal walls, so on and so forth. If you are relying on PIV to have "sex", you are going to be not having sex a lot earlier in life than a couple who has a broader meaning of sex. Yes 52 is probably a bit early for that to happen, but not extremely early. I think that experimenting more with other forms of sex would be essential for a lifelong partnership.

I’m sorry what does PIV mean? She is going thru menopause. She has been since her mid 40’s since she never had kids. I will need a sex therapist to convince her to even try anything.

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On 10/18/2022 at 6:53 PM, Lotsgoingon said:

 

Is kissing painful? Hugging? Oral sex? Touching? People can be highly sexual without causing pain to either.  Sorry, I'm not convinced her illness is the issue here. She may be hiding her distance from you (or discomfort from physical closeness) behind the wall of the condition.

Kissing , hugging or touching is not painful. This is why I need a sex therapist to deal with this situation. I just don’t now to approach this?

On 10/18/2022 at 6:53 PM, Lotsgoingon said:

You strike me as split: on the one hand your wife is the most wonderful person in the world. On the other hand, you're starved for sex. Sounds like you dismiss your sexual desire for her based on her being so perfect. Having a condition does not give us permission to withdraw from our partners. 

She’s definitely not perfect, but she has a good heart. Her positives out weigh her negatives. I do love her very much, but the sexlessness has taken a toll on me. It would be very hard for me to resist another women right now if she offered sex. I don’t put myself in those situations thankfully, but I’m at my wits ends on this issue.

On 10/18/2022 at 6:53 PM, Lotsgoingon said:

This is where I'm wondering if you're splitting--making her an asexual angel in your mind. 

How about you two people get together for a conversation about some physical intimacy that doesn't have to be intercourse? How about asking her to do some work on herself to clear out the blocks she has (or to air the complaints she has) that are blocking intimacy.

On andi-depressants, doctors know very well about the sexual side effects of particular depression meds, and they know how to adjust meds to limit those side effects. Not all depression meds kill sexual desire.  Your wife can raise this issue with her doctor. And you can raise the issue with her.

You don't need to see the sex therapist. SHE needs to go see the sex therapist ... or you and she need to go. You just need a good regular therapist who will help find your voice and power to talk to your wife about this--because right now it seems you are too terrified to do so. 

 

She has gone off her antidepressants before and it didn’t go well. She would get upset and start crying that she can’t be off of them and would put this guilt trip on me about us not having sex. Yes, you’re absolutely right I need a therapist to speak to about how to handle this situation and how to have conversations about this problem in our marriage.

Test

 

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On 10/18/2022 at 6:59 PM, stillafool said:

I said that to let you know that this woman (my friend) has severe lupus also to the point she needs a pill to get out of bed in the morning.  Yet, she found the strength and energy to travel back and forth to TX from L.A. to have sex with another man but wouldn't have sex with her husband.  I wasn't suggesting that YOU should cheat.  

I know the point you were trying to make. She loves gardening, but she finds the strength to do so from time to time.  She can’t lay there in bed for 10 minutes,’ so I can at least have sex and have an orgasm? I’ll take any sex at this point I am so desperate. I just to know what it feels like to make love to a women again.

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On 10/18/2022 at 9:35 PM, lovesbooks said:

Get some referrals to specialists who work with married couples.  Doctors and others in the "medical" professions don't concern themselves with the fact that what they prescribe is ruining your marriage.  I was prescribed medication during my marriage that made me unable to reach a climax.  I told the doctor he had to prescribe something else, or I was going elsewhere.  Your marriage is yours and hers to work on together.  She's missing out too.

Thank you for the advice. I really do appreciate!

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6 hours ago, Soxfaninfl said:

 what does PIV mean? She is going thru menopause. She has been since her mid 40’s 

"Intercourse" is the appropriate term. If she's having medical issues with regard to libido and physical challenges, a physician for an evaluation of her mental and physical health is more appropriate, but that's up to her.

Try regular marriage therapy first. In the privacy and  with the professional guidance of a qualified therapist, you can at least get the conversation started about all the things that could be in the way. Trying to drag her to a sex therapist like a mechanic with "here,fix her", isn't a good approach.

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10 hours ago, Soxfaninfl said:

 she finds the strength to do so from time to time.  She can’t lay there in bed for 10 minutes,’ so I can at least have sex.

This is why starting with marriage therapy may help most.

It seems cliche, but everyone knows "not tonight dear, I have a headache", means there's anger or resentment or discord not really a headache.

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17 hours ago, Soxfaninfl said:

No, none of that happens in our relationship.

I’m sorry what does PIV mean? She is going thru menopause. She has been since her mid 40’s since she never had kids. I will need a sex therapist to convince her to even try anything.

PIV is shorthand for penis-in-vagina... which basically means penile-vaginal intercourse, but with fewer letters. ;) "Sex", "vaginal intercourse", and "penile-vaginal intercourse" actually all mean different things specifically, which can be found in the rather interesting Wikipedia article below:

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Sexual intercourse may be called coitus, copulation, coition, or intercourse. Coitus is derived from the Latin word coitio or coire, meaning "a coming together or joining together" or "to go together", and is known under different ancient Latin names for a variety of sexual activities, but usually denotes penile–vaginal penetration.[19] This is often called vaginal intercourse or vaginal sex.[2][20] Vaginal sex, and less often vaginal intercourse, may also denote any vaginal sexual activity, particularly if penetrative, including sexual activity between lesbian couples.[21][22] Although sex and "having sex" also most commonly denote penile–vaginal intercourse,[26] sex can be significantly broad in its meaning and may cover any penetrative or non-penetrative sexual activity between two or more people.[7]

 

Talking to a therapist  is definitely a good idea. However, you may be disappointed if your expectation of the therapist is that they will "convince her" to do something - that's generally not their role. The point of talking to a therapist is for them to help you two communicate with each other, explore reasons and potential options and discuss how you can move forward together.

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She can’t lay there in bed for 10 minutes,’ so I can at least have sex and have an orgasm? I just to know what it feels like to make love to a women again.

This is a bad idea, assuming you mean vaginal sex (since no other kind of sex can be had by just "lying there"). Lots of men aren't aware of this, but vaginal sex can be painful for a woman who isn't turned on, EVEN women who aren't suffering from medical conditions. With lupus, I can't even imagine. And, obviously, experiencing painful sex will turn someone off further - I'm sure I don't need to explain why. There is no "making love" involved in one person gritting their teeth and enduring pain for 10 minutes so the other person can get off.

If a mutually tolerable solution does exist for the two of you, I think it would probably involve mutual masturbation or getting each other off with your hands. Have you suggested that before?

Edited by Elswyth
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On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

But apparently not give you a hand job. Or oral sex. Or anything else. 

I’m not trying to be unkind, I just find it odd that you say she would go thru a wall for you but she won’t do some relatively simple things that would bring you pleasure. Let’s be honest, women do this all the time when they are not able to have sex during their period or when they don’t want to have sex. It’s not a huge ask, but it is a risky venture if she doesn’t want sex and she fears it will lead to other things. And while I would say that I don’t understand what it is to have a chronic illness and perhaps be later in life and sexual desire is decreased by medications or decreasing hormones, I find it hard that she loves you but she can’t bring herself to do one thing that would bring you pleasure…

Interesting choice of words. Is she on medication or seeing a counsellor to help with the depression?

I’m curious as to how that will go. You may be the only person who goes to a sex therapist alone. 

I have a friend who has lupus. It was terrible at first before they found the right meds for her. She lost kidney function and had to be on dialysis and have a kidney transplant. She still has her challenges, I don’t want to dismiss the challenge of living with a chronic illness. That said, she got pregnant and had a child after her kidney transplant. She lives a regular life, works, raises her child, travels, and maintains a strong marriage. She hasn’t let it stop her from living her life - she is more resilient than I am. 

You seem like a very nice man. I’m sorry that you are dealing with this, and I’m sorry that there does not seem to be much of a solution. 

No, nothing. She can’t give me a hand job becuase of the lupus and has issue with her hands with the lupus. Her hand fatigue very easily. Oral sex is out of the question because of she has 5 herniated disc from an out accident back in 2011. 

 

Yeah she is self in that aspect and is not thinking of me needs. It’s very upsetting.

She sees psychiatrist from time to time, so she can get refills on her anti-depressants meds.

I’m gonna go to one to get advice on how to approach this situation and eventually get her to come with me.

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2 minutes ago, Soxfaninfl said:

No, nothing. She can’t give me a hand job becuase of the lupus and has issue with her hands with the lupus. Her hand fatigue very easily. Oral sex is out of the question because of she has 5 herniated disc from an out accident back in 2011. 

Yeah she is self in that aspect and is not thinking of me needs. It’s very upsetting.

The last sentence seems to have some typos.  I'm reading it as "Yeah, she is selfish in that aspect and is not thinking of my needs"  Is this correct?

So you write about her physical condition...painful and fatiguing hands, fatigue in general,  pain when moving around, menopausal, lost libido and then go on to describe her as selfish.  To be clear, I do understand that you're lacking sex.  But do you truly see her as being selfish in not servicing you when she's already struggling and that very act will exacerbate her physical problems?

 

 

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On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

But apparently not give you a hand job. Or oral sex. Or anything else. 

No, she can’t give me a hand job because her hands fatigue very easily because of her lupus condition. She also can’t give oral sex because she has 5 herniated discs in her back/neck.

On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

I’m not trying to be unkind, I just find it odd that you say she would go thru a wall for you but she won’t do some relatively simple things that would bring you pleasure. Let’s be honest, women do this all the time when they are not able to have sex during their period or when they don’t want to have sex. It’s not a huge ask, but it is a risky venture if she doesn’t want sex and she fears it will lead to other things. And while I would say that I don’t understand what it is to have a chronic illness and perhaps be later in life and sexual desire is decreased by medications or decreasing hormones, I find it hard that she loves you but she can’t bring herself to do one thing that would bring you pleasure…

Yeah she is selfish in this aspect and clearly doesn’t care enough to do something about it. I keep my frustration bottle up inside. I just want to scream some times. That is why I need help to handle this situation.

On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

Interesting choice of words. Is she on medication or seeing a counsellor to help with the depression?

Yes, she has to see physiatrist to get her meds refilled but the visits are brief.

On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

I’m curious as to how that will go. You may be the only person who goes to a sex therapist alone. 

If I can find a good one,  then can get advice from the therapist on how to speak to her about the situation with out getting upset. Hopefully get her to come with me to a session, so we can work on the problem together.

On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

I have a friend who has lupus. It was terrible at first before they found the right meds for her. She lost kidney function and had to be on dialysis and have a kidney transplant. She still has her challenges, I don’t want to dismiss the challenge of living with a chronic illness. That said, she got pregnant and had a child after her kidney transplant. She lives a regular life, works, raises her child, travels, and maintains a strong marriage. She hasn’t let it stop her from living her life - she is more resilient than I am. 

God bless her!

On 10/18/2022 at 9:51 PM, BaileyB said:

You seem like a very nice man. I’m sorry that you are dealing with this, and I’m sorry that there does not seem to be much of a solution. 

Thank you for the kinds words! I really appreciate that, and thank you for taking the time to respond to me.  I’m glad that I can come here to vent at least. 

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On 10/19/2022 at 10:11 AM, glows said:

You both will have to communicate better if you want to stay together, OP. Fear of the unknown or starting over is not an excuse to stay in relationship that isn’t working either. Talk about it more and have more give and take. Put your money where your mouth is so to speak and actually show each other you care or want more and what you want out of the relationship. 

We pretty much talk about everything, but when it comes to sex it’s a non discussion. She never brings it up obviously. I agree, if I try the sex therapist and she refuses to go or try to work on the sex part of our marriage then I don’t have any choice but to leave. I would have to give her an ultimatum that the sex part of our marriage has to improve or our marriage will end. I’m not asking for sex everyday. I’d be happy for once a month at this point.  I’ve tried to talk to her about it and how I’m unhappy with our sex life but it’s just excuse I hear. This is why I need help to help with this situation. 

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You need to talk to her, of course. Make sure that medical options that might help have been considered.  

But my impression from everything you've written certainly doesn't lead to her being selfish for not having sex with you.  She has real and legitimate reasons.  Having low or no libido still leaves the option of going ahead and trying to provide pleasure for your partner, although honestly, I don't see why someone would want to be "serviced" by someone who had no desire.  But the main issue seems to be her disease and physical issues that make various forms of sex actually painful for her.  I most certainly don't see how you would want her to deal with the pain in order to give you want you want.

I know that sounds harsh, but I think seeing her as selfish for not providing you with sexual pleasure is also harsh.  

I'm a woman with a high sex drive, so I understand how lack of sex would be extremely frustrating.  But you have to deal with the reality of the situation.  If, as you seem to indicate, everything but sex is good in your marriage, you have to decide whether that's enough for you to end the relationship.  This is a personal decision that only you can make.  Is there a way that you can deal with the lack of sex on a permanent basis?  If there is nothing medically that can be done to change the circumstances she is in, your options are to end the marriage or to figure out how to deal with it.  A big part of that includes understanding what she is facing.  As long as you see her as selfish you are going to become more and more resentful.  

You need to talk and work to truly understand where the other is coming from.  Right now it doesn't sound like either of you are able to see things from the others' point of view.  

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On 10/19/2022 at 11:22 AM, giotto said:

From what I've read, you never bring it up and it's been 5 years now, so, your wife probably thinks you mind a bit but it's not the end of the world and you'll be ok, because you love her, even with no sex.Your only solution is to suggest she helps you with your sexual urges in a non-penetrative way, so you can have some relief. A loving wife would do this for her husband.  

I have brought it up once a year on average but she just makes excuses. She did finally offer it about a year ago, but I couldn’t find the lubricant so it didn’t happen. I got some the next day, and she said she didn’t feel well, so I didn’t bring it up again. She know how upset I was. I’ve reminded her at her last doctor’s visit that it’s been 5 years. 

 I even asked her to if she would consider to let me put my penis between her breasts (she has double D breasts), but she said she would feel like a blow up doll if we did that. I just can’t win here!  She said to me a long time about that making sure her husband is sexually satisfied is not an importance to her. This is why I need professional help to convince her because clearly I’m not getting thru to her.

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On 10/20/2022 at 1:11 PM, S2B said:

You are the one to change this but since you’re unwilling to divorce - I think you may need to get help getting used to not having sex as part of the marriage.

you’re unwilling to leave her = nothing is going to change.

I don’t want to leave her because I love her. The only issue with our relationship is our sex life that is why I don’t want to give up easily. I want to exhaust every avenue before I throw away a decade together. I don’t have any choice but to leave if she refuses to address the issue or even try to see a therapist to address this issue. I’m only 47 and not 77.

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On 10/20/2022 at 1:24 PM, mark clemson said:

Some people are OK in a sexless marriage, many others are not. I can also see how you remain "bonded" if you cuddle a lot (and no doubt for many other reasons).

It's been 5 years. How will you feel after another 5. Then another 5 after that, etc. At some point you'll reach a time when your main option will be to look back on and "mourn" your lost/unfulfilling decades.

To me, the sensible course is to discuss with her, explain that it's important to you and not let it be brushed aside, and see if you can find a mutually acceptable way for your needs to be met. That might end up becoming a difficult discussion, so seeing a therapist together to be a sort of "referee" may help.

Not certain that will work, but to me it seems there's at least a reasonable chance.

Yes, I am not okay with a sexless marriage. I couldn’t go another 5 years without sex. I just don’t know how to speak to her anymore about it the problem without some professional help or I will end up looking for it else where with an escort probably. I’m just at my wits ends. I don’t want to commit adultery, my father did that to my mother and it was very traumatic to her. 

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6 minutes ago, Soxfaninfl said:

 I even asked her to if she would consider to let me put my penis between her breasts (she has double D breasts), but she said she would feel like a blow up doll if we did that. I

Well yes. When one has no sex drive, this would feel like being used as a masturbatory tool.  

Given the lost libido, pain and fatigue, what solutions do you think a sex therapist would offer?

 

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On 10/20/2022 at 7:55 PM, salparadise said:

47 is way too young to be told (unilateral decision) that you'll never have sex again. I did a little reading and I did not see any mention of loss of libido as a primary symptom; all the articles say it's a secondary symptom often caused by medication or chronic pain. Was your wife's libido healthy before, as in did she really enjoy sex, or might she have been going along because it was included in the marital contract? It seems to me that if she really enjoyed it she would be trying to figure out how to get it back.

If she's not willing to even try then it leaves you no good options I'm afraid. Do you ever talk about it with her, and have you explained how distressing it is for you? I can see how difficult that might be given that she's the one with the awful disease, but it seems to me that she should also be concerned with how it affects you and the marriage... as opposed to just informing you that that aspect of your life is over. Like Mark said, some men might be able to accept it, but all you have written indicates that you aren't one of them.

So what are the options? 1. acceptance, 2. divorce, 3. cheat, 4. take a mistress/open marriage. I guess a 5th would be none of the above, which is where you are now and it's obviously not satisfactory. If I were in your shoes I'd consider no. 4. Have the talk and tell her that you really don't want to have sex with anyone else, but you can't accept never having sex. You don't want a divorce, and you aren't going to go behind her back. That pretty much leaves  one option. Sorry man, I know it's hard. 

We were having sex regularly then we stopped 6 moths before we got married for religious reasons to set an example for my son since were were living together. She felt guilt that we were technically living in sin. We were engaged when I moved in. She wanted to live together to make sure things would work out with me, my son and her under one roof. There were challenges due to my ex-wife. The sex started to dwindle after we were married, and she resigned from her job due to stress from the job and she started to take antidepressants.

When I have tried to talk to her about the situation she has made me feel guilty at time that I’m selfish and that I’m thinking of my own sexual desire. I ask her to see if she would have sex and just lay there so I can at least have pleasure, but she would not go for that. I will take anything at this point.

No, I won’t accept a sexless marriage for much longer. I’m tired of it! If I would have it my way we would have sex 3 to 4 times a week. Is that too much? I don’t know what is normal anymore for someone my age?

I don’t think she would take option 4. It has crossed my mind now to take trip to see my friends up north and get an escort while I’m visiting them. I’m just at my wits ends here. I know it’s terrible to think this. I swore I would never do the same thing my father did to my mother and commit adultery. 

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16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Well yes. When one has no sex drive, this would feel like being used as a masturbatory tool.  

Given the lost libido, pain and fatigue, what solutions do you think a sex therapist would offer?

 

I just don’t know at this point, I’m just becoming hopeless that this will ever get better. I would feel better that I did everything I could before I threw in the towel. I’m feeling so depressed right now!

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32 minutes ago, basil67 said:

To be clear, you're wanting sex while knowing that it's painful or physically exhausting for her?  

I guess I’m a terrible person for wanting to make love to my wife? I just don’t know anymore.

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27 minutes ago, Soxfaninfl said:

I don’t want to leave her because I love her. The only issue with our relationship is our sex life that is why I don’t want to give up easily. I want to exhaust every avenue before I throw away a decade together. I don’t have any choice but to leave if she refuses to address the issue or even try to see a therapist to address this issue. I’m only 47 and not 77.

I just read your post. Wow, just wow. You are way too young to give up sex. I wonder if she is actually aware how much this is hurting you. I mean, have you actually set her down and explained to her everything that you've seen saying here? Or is it more like you use hints and ask her for certain things to do for you and she says no to that. It is pretty mind boggling if she knows how strongly you reel regarding lack of sex and does nothing about it.

To be fair, what do you think going to a sex therapist is going to accomplish if you go there without her? She needs to be there ready and willing to change or at least keep an open mind regarding sex. 

6 minutes ago, Soxfaninfl said:

When I have tried to talk to her about the situation she has made me feel guilty at time that I’m selfish and that I’m thinking of my own sexual desire.

Oh, I see. So you did talk to her. If that's now she feels, I hate to say, there is not much hope for your marriage. I know, you don't want to cheat on her but do you think she would care if you have an open marriage. As long as you agree to be very discreet and employ don't ask, don't tell policy. Either that or leave. Really don't think a sex therapist is going to help her much if she is not even willing to try.

I wonder if you can talk to her priest at her church regarding this. Just an idea.  Do you think it is going to help you in any way if he talks to her about lack of intimacy. This could very well backfire on you big time (she could feel even more bamboozled and pressured to have sex) but I honestly don't think that you have too much to loose anyway.

But do you think that her problems run a lot deeper than just not willing to have sex in any way with you? Have you ever tried to find out the reason beneath it all? Do you think that she was sexually abused in some ways in the past? Or do you think that it was installed into her from the very young age that sex is a sin? That could explain her behavior. 

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Just now, Soxfaninfl said:

guess I’m a terrible person for wanting to make love to my wife?

Wanting sex with your partner is normal.  But you are not in a "normal" situation.  Your wife has medical issues.  You are not guaranteed that health, finances, or sex will remain the same.  You either accept and adjust (if there is nothing to be done to improve the situation) or leave.  Being so frustrated that you want to force what you want on your wife, regardless of the consequences to her, is a big warning sign that you are heading for trouble.  Before you go any further down that path, divorce may be the best option.  

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19 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

"Intercourse" is the appropriate term. If she's having medical issues with regard to libido and physical challenges, a physician for an evaluation of her mental and physical health is more appropriate, but that's up to her.

Gotcha

19 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

"Intercourse" is the appropriate term. If she's having medical issues with regard to libido and physical challenges, a physician for an evaluation of her mental and physical health is more appropriate, but that's up to her.

Try regular marriage therapy first. In the privacy and  with the professional guidance of a qualified therapist, you can at least get the conversation started about all the things that could be in the way. Trying to drag her to a sex therapist like a mechanic with "here,fix her", isn't a good approach.

I’m going to make an appointment to see a therapist to get advice on this whole situation and how to approach it and have conversations with her about it.

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