I'm feeling haunted

[lftbehind]

32 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

 Yes. Ultimatums don't work. So a letter won't work either.  A letter will not make him stop drinking or change him.

A letter won't give you the information you need as to the financial outlook in the event of divorce. Do not write this message. Threats simply make matters worse.

If you can't talk to him it's pointless writing to him. If he wanted to be a loving husband and sober up, he would. With or without this message.

Trying to fix and change someone especially with ultimatums never works. 

If you want changes, you'll need professional advice, both from an attorney and a therapist to see what changes you can make. Talking at someone doesn't work. You need to take action.

Yes, I haven't had much talking to him or getting him to change. He might get mad if I give him an ultimatum. 

I with that he would go to a couples counseling, but he doesn't want to go. 

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

I with that he would go to a couples counseling, but he doesn't want to go. 

That's more wishing and hoping he changes while you remain for financial necessity. There are changes You can make, such as going to therapy yourself.

Any types of threats or ultimatums need leverage to work. Since you are not ready, willing or able to leave, they are pointless.

You need to change. He won't.

[glows]

1 hour ago, lftbehind said:

That's true, but I would have to leave as soon as I filed. 

Don’t assume anything about your situation or what you have to do. Speak with a lawyer. This has been repeated many times. 

If you can’t support yourself start supporting yourself now. Try looking at jobs and options and speak with a lawyer about what exactly it is you need to do next.

[Will am I]

5 hours ago, lftbehind said:

Yes, I'm afraid of being alone and would like a man in my life. I think that could have one, but it's harder. I take care of myself and stay in shape. 

Yes you can. Because you have done it before. Other women have done it before. You got this. 

5 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I think it's harder to be poor when you are older and I don't want to be. You don't really have dignity, because people look down on you, because you are poor. I was a single mother for a long time and didn't have much money. It's a very rough life. Without money, you are so limited in your life choices and you can't live a very good life. 

I respect what you are writing.

 

Poverty in the western world does typically not equate to starvation. It is primarily a lack of options, a lack of freedom, not having choices, being confined to a very limited life with little room for fun or relaxation. And constant fear of any setbacks. But you do have a perspective to an inheritance that will give you a solid buffer and take away the sharpest edges of that situation.

 

The other thing you write, about people looking down on you. I want to challenge that. Of course there will be people who look down on poorer people but that's simply a bad, materialistic mentality. Luckily there are also plenty of people who do not look down. I think this may work differently when there are deeper connecting factors. Within my church community we have anything from entrepreneurs and doctors to foreign students, immigrants and refugees. I generally do not experience people looking down on others because of economic differences. Also personally I have a number of people that I look up to and consider to be strong examples and spiritual leaders and they do not all come from money. One of the best examples for fatherhood and leading a family is a man who came from Africa and does blue collar work in a factory.

 

5 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I do love him and that's why it's hard to leave. 

Now that is the best reason

 

5 hours ago, lftbehind said:

That's a good idea to give him the message that you wrote. I think that he would feel bad if I threatened to leave, though. 

Essentially it's the same message I delivered to my wife earlier this year. That I really wanted to be with her but I wanted to change patterns that made me unhappy. Or I would leave if these patterns didn't change.

It was probably the hardest conversations I ever had, but with the right preparation I was able to pull it off and get my wife on board. Like I wrote before, stepping up to true change will require you to abandon fear of a divorce first. That was my mental preparation and it took a number of weeks, a few months even.

 

   

[lftbehind]

23 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's more wishing and hoping he changes while you remain for financial necessity. There are changes You can make, such as going to therapy yourself.

Any types of threats or ultimatums need leverage to work. Since you are not ready, willing or able to leave, they are pointless.

You need to change. He won't.

That's true I can't change him. I'll just have to change myself. I tried therapy before, but didn't care for it. There were mostly just someone to talk to, I didn't get too much input from them. 

[lftbehind]

22 hours ago, glows said:

Don’t assume anything about your situation or what you have to do. Speak with a lawyer. This has been repeated many times. 

If you can’t support yourself start supporting yourself now. Try looking at jobs and options and speak with a lawyer about what exactly it is you need to do next.

I would have to leave, because he would be mad at me and it would be hard to stay at that point. I can look at other options. 

[Will am I]

4 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

I would have to leave, because he would be mad at me and it would be hard to stay at that point. I can look at other options. 

Is there a danger of violence if you were to start looking for another job or making other peparations to become more self dependent?

If there is, contact a local organization for help to abused women today. We will find an organization in your area.  

Edited November 9, 2022 by Will am I

[lftbehind]

18 hours ago, Will am I said:

Yes you can. Because you have done it before. Other women have done it before. You got this. 

I respect what you are writing.

 

Poverty in the western world does typically not equate to starvation. It is primarily a lack of options, a lack of freedom, not having choices, being confined to a very limited life with little room for fun or relaxation. And constant fear of any setbacks. But you do have a perspective to an inheritance that will give you a solid buffer and take away the sharpest edges of that situation.

 

The other thing you write, about people looking down on you. I want to challenge that. Of course there will be people who look down on poorer people but that's simply a bad, materialistic mentality. Luckily there are also plenty of people who do not look down. I think this may work differently when there are deeper connecting factors. Within my church community we have anything from entrepreneurs and doctors to foreign students, immigrants and refugees. I generally do not experience people looking down on others because of economic differences. Also personally I have a number of people that I look up to and consider to be strong examples and spiritual leaders and they do not all come from money. One of the best examples for fatherhood and leading a family is a man who came from Africa and does blue collar work in a factory.

 

Now that is the best reason

 

Essentially it's the same message I delivered to my wife earlier this year. That I really wanted to be with her but I wanted to change patterns that made me unhappy. Or I would leave if these patterns didn't change.

It was probably the hardest conversations I ever had, but with the right preparation I was able to pull it off and get my wife on board. Like I wrote before, stepping up to true change will require you to abandon fear of a divorce first. That was my mental preparation and it took a number of weeks, a few months even.

 

   

Yes, see how bad poverty looks when you write it out. No one would choose that, if they didn't have to. It will probable be a while before I get the inheritance and that would be a lot of bad years. 

You're just in a lower class when you're poor. I've been there and it's bad. I don't even think that I could meet my basic needs with the cost of everything now. That's good you have a good church that people get along in. I'm just down right now and I can't imagine moving out and going through what I would go through. My choices don't seem too good.

That's good you have been working things out with your wife. It was good that you could ask for what you wanted and she agreed to work on it.  

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

I would have to leave, because he would be mad at me and it would be hard to stay at that point. I can look at other options. 

You've mentioned many times that you're not ready willing or able to leave and that therapy, alcoholic support groups etc don't work for you.

What other options are there? Do you still see or talk to your lover? 

Your opening post was mostly about that, not about improving ot leaving your marriage. In affairs, it's rather standard to complain about the (mean, cold, etc.) spouse, but with no intention to leave or improve the marriage.

It's a narrative cheaters use to justify their affairs to each other and to themselves. That's ok. The only person you need to be honest with is yourself.

[lftbehind]

8 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Is there a danger of violence if you were to start looking for another job or making other peparations to become more self dependent?

If there is, contact a local organization for help to abused women today. We will find an organization in your area.  

He hasn't been physically abusive to me, so I would probably be okay. 

[lftbehind]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

You've mentioned many times that you're not ready willing or able to leave and that therapy, alcoholic support groups etc don't work for you.

What other options are there? Do you still see or talk to your lover? 

Your opening post was mostly about that, not about improving ot leaving your marriage. In affairs, it's rather standard to complain about the (mean, cold, etc.) spouse, but with no intention to leave or improve the marriage.

It's a narrative cheaters use to justify their affairs to each other and to themselves. That's ok. The only person you need to be honest with is yourself.

I don't see a lot of options, really. My AP moved back to his home state that's 10 hours away. I haven't talked to him, since he left. 

I didn't talk about my husband much to AP. I do need to be honest with myself. 

[Will am I]

9 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

He hasn't been physically abusive to me, so I would probably be okay. 

I think preparing to be more independent is urgently needed for either outcome of your situation.

It is needed for theoutcome where you divorce and move out, obviously.

But also for the outcome where you stay with your husband and work on your marriage. He needs to understand that you're not under his control, that he will lose you if he doesn't own up and do his part in making your marriage a better place. 

If your husband gets aggressive or violent over these preparatory steps, you have no options but run.

 

The good part is that you're inching closer to that T-junction where your current unhappy situation will end. The scary part is that there is no telling yet over which way it will go. But either way you won't have to suffer for life.

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

I don't see a lot of options, really.

My AP moved back to his home state that's 10 hours away. I haven't talked to him, since he left. 

I do need to be honest with myself. 

Ok, then it's important not to paint your spouse as abusive or dangerous if it's your intention to stay and you claim you love him. You did talk to your lover about your "bad" marriage.  But now you're still not happy but still not ready willing or able to do anything.

You can't force him to change. Do not write coersive letters or demand he changes or else...  The question is or else what? You'll keep having affairs? you'll walk out the door? 

I would strongly advise against that. Perhaps your best bet for now is to ride it out until you know what you can and want to do.

[lftbehind]

14 minutes ago, Will am I said:

I think preparing to be more independent is urgently needed for either outcome of your situation.

It is needed for theoutcome where you divorce and move out, obviously.

But also for the outcome where you stay with your husband and work on your marriage. He needs to understand that you're not under his control, that he will lose you if he doesn't own up and do his part in making your marriage a better place. 

If your husband gets aggressive or violent over these preparatory steps, you have no options but run.

 

The good part is that you're inching closer to that T-junction where your current unhappy situation will end. The scary part is that there is no telling yet over which way it will go. But either way you won't have to suffer for life.

I should prepare to be more independent. 

He wants to move to another state sometime within a few years and retire. It's far from here. I have to make sure that my mom is taken care of, too. 

He's probably not afraid of losing me. 

I would run if he got violent. 

The future looks scary. 

 

[lftbehind]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok, then it's important not to paint your spouse as abusive or dangerous if it's your intention to stay and you claim you love him. You did talk to your lover about your "bad" marriage.  But now you're still not happy but still not ready willing or able to do anything.

You can't force him to change. Do not write coersive letters or demand he changes or else...  The question is or else what? You'll keep having affairs? you'll walk out the door? 

I would strongly advise against that. Perhaps your best bet for now is to ride it out until you know what you can and want to do.

I am trying to ride it out until I know what I can and want to do. It's hard, though. I get lonely and sad. 

[stillafool]

5 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I am trying to ride it out until I know what I can and want to do. It's hard, though. I get lonely and sad. 

You said you didn't want to divorce so what are you riding out?  You said you're already lonely and sad and that's why you have affairs.  So what's different?

[stillafool]

5 hours ago, lftbehind said:

I would have to leave, because he would be mad at me and it would be hard to stay at that point. I can look at other options. 

You don't have to tell him you're speaking to an attorney.  Just do it.  You can look for a job, he won't get angry about that would he?  When you do nothing, nothing changes.

[S2B]

Why do you need to take care of your Mom when you aren’t capable of taking care of yourself?

the order is first you take care of yourself - then others.

[LynneVicious]

Op, unfortunately nothing is going to change. You have affairs because you’re unhappy but are unwilling to end your marriage because of (reasons). How many affairs have you had and what has the result been? They’ve all ended; and it does nothing but cause pain and tear families apart. 

At least open your marriage up so your husband can consent to the risks you are taking while in these affairs. 

As far as not being able to end your marriage because you are afraid of being poor… I’m sorry, but that’s weak. Your freedom and personal health is priceless. What are you doing to change your situation? 

Repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by LynneVicious
Spelling

[lftbehind]

19 hours ago, stillafool said:

You said you didn't want to divorce so what are you riding out?  You said you're already lonely and sad and that's why you have affairs.  So what's different?

Ride it out, because I'm not sure that it will work. 

[lftbehind]

11 hours ago, S2B said:

Why do you need to take care of your Mom when you aren’t capable of taking care of yourself?

the order is first you take care of yourself - then others.

She can't totally take care of herself. I'm her guardian. 

[Will am I]

Caring for aging parents can be a heavy burdain, especially because the care tasks adds up with the emotional strain of seeing your parents get older and gradually more helpless.

Do you experience any emotional support from your husband in that?

 

[lftbehind]

23 hours ago, Will am I said:

Caring for aging parents can be a heavy burdain, especially because the care tasks adds up with the emotional strain of seeing your parents get older and gradually more helpless.

Do you experience any emotional support from your husband in that?

 

She's in an assisted living facility, for her dementia, that's like a fancy hotel. There are a lot of activities there to do and the food is good. She gets frustrated, because they don't let her go out, though. We try to visit her every few weeks. We take her out to eat and shopping and the park. 

My husband has tried to be supportive and help me do things for her, but sometimes he has gotten frustrated and mad at her. He has been mean to her a few times and told her that he only has anything to do with her, because she is my mother. He also told her that we are the only ones there for her and she's driven everyone else away. I was there the 1 time they had a fight and they've argued on the phone. I talked him into apologizing to her, to smooth things over. I was very upset that he treated her that way and talked to him a lot about it. She is hard to be around and deal with sometimes, but I try to be patient. She worries a lot and will get frustrated and argumentative with us sometimes. I would see her more, but it can be so stressful to be around her. 

[Wiseman2]

53 minutes ago, lftbehind said:

She's in an assisted living facility, for her dementia, 

My husband has tried to be supportive and help me do things for her, but sometimes he has gotten frustrated and mad at her. 

Your mother seems well taken care of. Visit her on your own. Make the best of one-on-one time with her and seek support with dealing with cognitive disorders from the staff at the facility.

There's no need for your husband to tag along.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

There's no need for your husband to tag along.

My Dad is 99 and experiencing mild dementia and had a leg amputated due to poor circulation 3 years ago.  I don't need my husband to tag along with me when I visit him.