Help needed. Any advice appreciated. I will pay it forward.

[matboxing1989]

I just wanted advice on a girl I like. We work on different teams. The office is big but on the same floor. I am not asking for an echo chamber to agree with me or a moral compass. I just want practical advice on the best way to improve my chances. I will try not to leave anything out. I hope I don’t side like arrogant or smug, I can just tell my truth. She is engaged and I know that isn’t great, its just one of those things. She says she doesn't like wfh cos hes there, and says she won't get married. I know people will say don't, bad idea, your a bad person. Really just want practical advice.

 

So, as I mentioned there is a girl on my floor at work. I have known her for about a year now and used to make an effort to talk to her here and there the odd time. I get told I am good looking and people whisper about it and giggle about it. Its just one of those things. I have had it my whole life. I am talk and have dimples, dress ok etc. I get told a few times a week ‘so and so’ thinks your nice looking. I am just writing that in the context of the story and advice. We started speaking more and more. We speak on Teams and joke around most days. I go up to her desk like 5 or 6 times a day and we always laugh and joke. I do feel we wouldnt speak as much if I didn't push it. Everyone knows how much I like her and they wind me up constantly and she surely must know. It would be impossible not to. Recently we went on a work trip and well in a separate hotel. We agreed to meet for a drink before the team dinner and chatted loads. Whatsapped jokes about the hotel. The rest of the team went to a casino but I can’t gamble (in recovery). I shared somethings with her and felt comfortable I said I didn’t want to and we went back to the hotel and chatted for another 2-3 hours, drank etc. Next day breakfast. One day I tried some food, I hadn’t before and said I liked it, so the next week we went out for lunch, just me and her. She 100% loved the idea of people knowing and even stopped and asked her friends if they wanted anything, went out of her way to tell people we were going. She helped me prepare for a work training seminar I had to give and sent me this really nice message wishing me luck and went though my power point with me. She is just a really nice person (maybe why she hangs out with me)

 

 

The last 3 weeks, I have said to her quite a few people have asked me if anything is going on with us, which is true. I get asked about 10 times a week. I thought it was a good play to say this to her. This is a bit bad, but I said I have lots of girls that are friends, were chill, but I didn’t want to say anything else. Again, she seemed to quite like it. I lent her my account on a streaming service and then today she lent me hers. We whatsapped a bit. Sorry it feels like a ramble. They key things are, she definitely finds me attractive, she enjoys my company, she agreed to go to lunch. She defo walks to my side of the room to go past me, when she could go to the other side to use the toilet. I see her looking at me quite a lot when we are in a big company meeting or talk. I just feel she holds all the cards. Sometimes I purposely go a day or 2 and don’t approach her, but where I do so so often, its really noticeable. Then she seems over the moon and cant hide her happiness when I prance over and start chatting and making her laugh. I just don’t know how to progress it. I feel like that could be the play, to not speak anymore and when she asks why, just say because I really like you in that way and lay the cards on the table. I just feel like I don’t hold any power in it. Her work pals always giggle when we talk. Today they were making heart gestures behind me as we spoke. I am just trying to get the vibe over to whoever has advice. The Christmas party is coming. I need a firm plan, that I can stick to and follow through. I know it’s a bad idea, I know it will go wrong. You can tell me, but I really just want someone to say, do this. IS it to just go cold, make her want what she can't have.

 

I have probably already made a trillion mistakes but thanks anyway : )

 

Really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read and reply.

[basil67]

I'm sorry.  You've got an epic crush and she sees you as a fun work buddy.   There is nothing in any of this which indicate that she has any romantic or sexual attraction to you. 

If you go from being the fun work buddy to withdrawing your friendship in order to gain the upper hand, she'll get annoyed with you, disappointed in you and just lose all respect.  Honestly, if there was a formula to make someone return our romantic interests, the inventor would be a billionaire by now. 

[FMW]

If she's engaged then pursuing this is going to end up in a situation where you are sneaking around to see her, or in a situation that could be volatile when her fiance finds out.  

If you are very attractive then you have lots of options.  Choosing this one sounds like you're bored and like to play at things and like a challenge.  She doesn't hold all the cards.  You're just choosing to turn over yours to her at the moment in playing this game.  Treat this like you would any other girl you're interested in.  Ask her out and see what she says.   

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, matboxing1989 said:

I need a firm plan,

A firm plan...to do what, exactly?

Make her dump her finacé and be with you? 

[matboxing1989]

Thank for the reply.

Edited November 1, 2022 by matboxing1989

[matboxing1989]

7 hours ago, FMW said:

If she's engaged then pursuing this is going to end up in a situation where you are sneaking around to see her, or in a situation that could be volatile when her fiance finds out.  

If you are very attractive then you have lots of options.  Choosing this one sounds like you're bored and like to play at things and like a challenge.  She doesn't hold all the cards.  You're just choosing to turn over yours to her at the moment in playing this game.  Treat this like you would any other girl you're interested in.  Ask her out and see what she says.   

Thank for the reply. I mean that is pretty much it. I am told I am attractive but I am quite awkward, or very awkward. I did ask her out and she said yes, and we had a fun time. Now its back to chatting and talking a lot. You are 100% right about the one being bore and liking a challenge. I just want to escalate it. It feels like going a bit quiet would, because she would realize she liked talking to me or hanging out with me. Let me know what you would do and thanks again 

 

[matboxing1989]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

I'm sorry.  You've got an epic crush and she sees you as a fun work buddy.   There is nothing in any of this which indicate that she has any romantic or sexual attraction to you. 

If you go from being the fun work buddy to withdrawing your friendship in order to gain the upper hand, she'll get annoyed with you, disappointed in you and just lose all respect.  Honestly, if there was a formula to make someone return our romantic interests, the inventor would be a billionaire by now. 

I am not sure I agree. I have been told the exact opposite and her body language is fairly clear, as well as her communication. Realistically its far more that she likes the attention, but wouldn't take it further. But thanks for the advice : )

[Wiseman2]

5 minutes ago, matboxing1989 said:

. I just want to escalate it. 

Does she have a BF? Unfortunately you seem to be using a lot of pickup artist lingo and tactics. It's important to keep in mind that the workplace is not a singles club or dating app.

Be polite and professional at work. Get a good profile and pics on quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting interested women. 

She most likely doesn't want messy workplace romances or gossip. 

[ExpatInItaly]

This woman is engaged, right?

You can't approach this like regular dating, OP. That seems to be what you're not grasping. Stay off the PUA sites and focus on women who are worth your efforts. This one is playing you. 

[BaileyB]

15 hours ago, matboxing1989 said:

I just don’t know how to progress it.

You tell her to come talk with you when she has ended her engagement and she is single. She is not in a position to progress anything until she has ended her engagement.

As for you, it’s not a good look to be ‘dating’ another man’s girlfriend. If people around the office are talking, they are likely talking about how inappropriate it is that you are attempting to pursue a woman who is engaged to another man (and how inappropriate it is that she apparently lacks a healthy boundary too).

Edited November 1, 2022 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, matboxing1989 said:

I have probably already made a trillion mistakes but thanks anyway : )

Really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read and reply.

The problem is this is a work environment, so you're unlikely to escape the "rumor mill" if you continue to spend time/pay attn to her.  It MIGHT impact your job situation at some point down the road, e.g. if there's a bad breakup. Many folks have a "policy" not to date co-workers for this reason.

The straightforward thing to do is to see if she really leaves her fiancee and take it from there.

Another straightforward thing to do is not date co-workers (esp. since you apparently will have little trouble finding partners). Consider if there may be a bit of a "forbidden fruit" effect going on with this AND that if you date her after she breaks up with her fiancee you will be a "rebound".

Unfortunately, as interested as you (both) may be, this potential relationship has a greater than normal chance of ending up a dysfunctional mess.

That said, I fully understand "wanting" a specific person. However,

16 hours ago, matboxing1989 said:

IS it to just go cold, make her want what she can't have.

... attempting to play mind games isn't the way to go about getting a sincere relationship.

IF you just want to be with her (even for a fling) and simply aren't worried about consequences, then perhaps continue just flirting and let her know you'll be around once she actually leaves her fiancee.

As you are clearly sensing, there will probably be at least SOME negative consequences, but that is on you for ignoring what your gut is clearly telling you. Life eventually teaches most of us to run away from, not towards, the red flags. But perhaps the fallout won't be TOO bad, it's impossible to say.

[matboxing1989]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

The problem is this is a work environment, so you're unlikely to escape the "rumor mill" if you continue to spend time/pay attn to her.  It MIGHT impact your job situation at some point down the road, e.g. if there's a bad breakup. Many folks have a "policy" not to date co-workers for this reason.

The straightforward thing to do is to see if she really leaves her fiancee and take it from there.

Another straightforward thing to do is not date co-workers (esp. since you apparently will have little trouble finding partners). Consider if there may be a bit of a "forbidden fruit" effect going on with this AND that if you date her after she breaks up with her fiancee you will be a "rebound".

Unfortunately, as interested as you (both) may be, this potential relationship has a greater than normal chance of ending up a dysfunctional mess.

That said, I fully understand "wanting" a specific person. However,

... attempting to play mind games isn't the way to go about getting a sincere relationship.

IF you just want to be with her (even for a fling) and simply aren't worried about consequences, then perhaps continue just flirting and let her know you'll be around once she actually leaves her fiancee.

As you are clearly sensing, there will probably be at least SOME negative consequences, but that is on you for ignoring what your gut is clearly telling you. Life eventually teaches most of us to run away from, not towards, the red flags. But perhaps the fallout won't be TOO bad, it's impossible to say.

This is the best reply so far, so thank you for your time.

 

I think I may have explained it in a more intense way, than it is. I highly doubt she will leave her partner and the idea it would get a stage like that, seems almost impossible.

 

My workplace is a party office and quite young. Lots of people get together and the rumour mill is always in full grind, so that doesnt bother me. My job or role is iron clad. I perform exceptionally and friends with the right people, so is there no risk of that.

I guess what I am asking ultimately is how do i go from chatting and texting a lot, flirting a bit, and going out for lunch, to the next level. How do I find out how she feels about me? [ ] . Do I ask her out for a drink after work? Do I play it cool? Do i ask for a dance at the xmas party. The forum feels like its for people with actual problems like divorce or child custody. I am 30 something year old guy who is basically asking what I should do, not asking for a moral scan or to be judged.  

Edited November 1, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
racial stereotypes

[glows]

You seem to be asking for tips to help someone cheat in their relationship or go after a person willing to cheat on someone else. Unfortunately no, most people in good conscience aren’t going to give advice like that because they know what the fall out entails and the lives affected. Read through the countless threads of cheating and “flings” available on the forum and you’ll get a sense of what kind of advice is available.

If you’re sure she’s into you then go with the flow and see how things pan out. I would assume your gut instinct is telling you this doesn’t feel right and there’s a high rate of failure or this not working out. I’d be wary about your reputation at work if you’re going after women who are attached.

The heart signs don’t sound very flattering. I would take it that they’re joking about you or making a joke out of you chasing this woman. You’re not bothered by it but your crush here may think of you as a playboy. Ultimately she may be toying with you. She has more to lose so why should she risk that? She flirts now and then or went out with you once. Are you seeing other women at least?

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, matboxing1989 said:

The forum feels like its for people with actual problems like divorce or child custody. I am 30 something year old guy who is basically asking what I should do, not asking for a moral scan or to be judged.

You have come to the wrong forum if you are looking for advice on how to get a woman to cheat with you. 

Most here are not going to help you make a fool of yourself, OP. 

[SingFish]

[ ] 

 You're cute, good job and prospects, so why are you looking for messy entanglements at work of all places? 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
response to removed content/civility

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, matboxing1989 said:

She is french, they love a fling. Do I ask her out for a drink after work? Do I play it cool? Do i ask for a dance at the xmas party. ...  I am 30 something year old guy who is basically asking what I should do, not asking for a moral scan or to be judged.  

YW. No one can tell you how she feels except her - some people just like to flirt and it "means nothing".  Or it meant something, a little bit, but it wasn't enough for them to want to change their life to suit the (potential) new relationship.

If you're trying to turn this into a fling with her, any of the things you mention could work. I'd say just follow your instincts, they seem to be working so far. Whether she'll actually be up for it is anybody's guess, she may, may not. I do think some women really like the "slow build".

Moving forward isn't likely to end particularly well, but since you're aware of that and wish to anyhow - well, c'est la vie, it's your (and her) decision. I do hope it doesn't end up causing significant problems for either of you.

Edited November 1, 2022 by mark clemson

[matboxing1989]

9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

YW. No one can tell you how she feels except her - some people just like to flirt and it "means nothing".  Or it meant something, a little bit, but it wasn't enough for them to want to change their life to suit the (potential) new relationship.

If you're trying to turn this into a fling with her, any of the things you mention could work. I'd say just follow your instincts, they seem to be working so far. Whether she'll actually be up for it is anybody's guess, she may, may not. I do think some women really like the "slow build".

Moving forward isn't likely to end particularly well, but since you're aware of that and wish to anyhow - well, c'est la vie, it's your (and her) decision. I do hope it doesn't end up causing significant problems for either of you.

Thanks again, always appreciated. Yeah I think that is the plan. Or wait for them to break up or him to be hit by a bus (joking). I think she probs likes the attention if I am honest, from a person who is doing very well at there own job and considered attractive by co workers. What do you mean by slow build? 

[Fox Sake]

I say go for it. Her relationship is already broken. You might both learn something.  More so , so the poor guy she is with can stop wasting his time. It’s clear she’s already shown how faithful to commitment she is by denouncing her marriage intentions to you. Bear that in mind! 
 

If you want to connect with her then do it outside of work. Otherwise it’s just drama. 
You’ll probably have a lot of fun together. But it’ll be short lived …The killer of all this of it goes the distance , will be when you catch feelings for her and realise that you don’t actually trust her … because if she did it to her fiancé , why wouldn’t she do it to you too?! 
 

[Starswillshine]

I am an overly friendly people. I have found that guys who rarely get attention or guys who are accustomed to a lot of attention tend to take my friendliness as flirting. I am also an over sharer which probably also adds to this. I've had to let down many guys who thought it was a sure thing. (I've also had to learn how to not give off those vibes unintentionally.)

You seem like the former type guy. Accustomed to girls' attention. She may or may not want to pursue something more but... you are playing with fire here. Either way, it is a crash and burn situation. Proceed with caution. Especially in a work atmosphere. 

[BreakOnThrough]

Beta orbiter, if she wanted you physically, it would have already happened, trust me.  

Concentrate on your work, ignore the drama, you'll be much better off in the long-term.

[matboxing1989]

2 hours ago, BreakOnThrough said:

Beta orbiter, if she wanted you physically, it would have already happened, trust me.  

Concentrate on your work, ignore the drama, you'll be much better off in the long-term.

haha beta orbiter. Have to respect your opinion, but its a bit off the mark. I get with girls for fun and have already  with girls from the office and turn people down pretty often. It wouldn't have happened. Life isn't an erotic drama or rom com. the planets need to align, she needs to be off with her bf, few drinks, me looking my best. She's not going to tell me to meet her in the stationary cupboard. The difference here is that i feel a genuine connection and wanted to know how to accelerate it.

Your second point is probs right tbh, but I dunno, you only live once

[RebeccaR]

“The planets need to align”

Are you asking how to break up her current relationship? That’s totally a different question. I don’t think anyone here can tell you how to make that happen 

[ExpatInItaly]

What exactly is your goal with this woman?

A hookup? Dating? 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, matboxing1989 said:

. the planets need to align, she needs to be off with her bf, few drinks, me looking my best. 

Well eclipses are rare. Getting her liquored up is a poor idea. If you can get women as easily as you claim, why bother with her?

[matboxing1989]

7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What exactly is your goal with this woman?

A hookup? Dating? 

all of the above