Found out she was cheating.

[Blind-Sided]

Hi All.

It's been a while since I've posted.  For the most part, I have been very happy with my GF for the last +2.5 years.  She was my first GF after my divorce, and as many of the regulars here know... she was significantly younger than me. (21 years)  For most of that time, everything was great.  We didn't argue and we enjoyed the same things. But in early Aug something felt amiss. She was busy with her jobs... and we were just spending less time together than normal. It got to the point that if just felt like our time together was a "Booty Call". Dinner, sex, bed.  We kind of worked though it, but eventually, things just changed, and I wasn't sure why. Eventually we talked and she brought up all kinds of issues, but the one main one was about my kids, and she felt it was "Not fair to have to share me with them."  Obviously, my kids are my blood, and after a few days of talks, I had to break it off with her because she was not giving me any way to resolve the feelings she was expressing. (There was more, but want to keep this focused) 

After about a week apart, she reached out, and I said we can talk.  She came over, and it was a tearful reunion. we talked, and she accepted everything as it was.  She was actually nicer to the kids, and even invited my youngest to go shopping with us one day. for several weeks, it was just like it was in the beginning.  BUT......... then things started to get strange again.  Her txt's were kind of cold (no affection/emotion).... she would take longer to respond... and if I sent something with a few questions... she may only answer one. Because of this... I had to talk to her more often about "Us", and it just felt like walking on egg shells.  Don't get me wrong... there was also good days mixed in.  But she would go cold for no reason at all. This eventually lead to use having another serious sit-down to talk about the relationship.  As an FYI, when we broke up for that week... she said "I hurt her very much with the break-up".  But I told her she left me no choice, so it truly wasn't my fault. But because of that... I told her it was he choice.  If she no longer wanted me in her life... just tell me. After a while, she said we should break up. I walked her to the door, and she took about 20 minutes to actually do anything. But eventually, she said "I'll see you later", and I responded with... "Probably not."  At this point she started to cry, and said "I love you"... and I asked her what she said... she turned around and said "I love you" louder, and was in full blown, melt down tears. I then said to her... "Why are you leaving then?".  She hugged me... and totally destroyed my shirt with tears and snot... and said... "What if it doesn't work out?", and I told her it will only fail if she wanted it to.  After she calmed down, she came back in, and stayed. 

Things were good again for a while.... but eventually, after a few weeks... it was getting strange again. Cold txts, longer to respond... ignoring txts, and so on.  

In all of this... he main job is industrial... so she's surrounded by guys. I know she has a bunch of guy friends, but doesn't hide them from me. So, I wasn't worried.  But over the couple months this all covers... I would see a new name pop up on her phone.  It got to the point where I would see it daily, and at extreme hours. When I asked her about it... she would say... "It's just a friend from the club". (Where she bartends)  OK... here again... there is WAY more here, but I want to keep it short.

Eventually, this all comes to a head last Friday night, and a female friend of mine (The one who actually reintroduced me and my GF) wanted to know the name of this guy... so I gave her what I knew.  She dug around, and actually found this guy, and that he referenced her as his GF just a few weeks ago, and told me on Saturday.  (ouch)

So the GF was going to come over Sunday, and I figured I would just confront her about it. Eventually, she txt'ed me after the time she was to be at my house, and told me she wasn't feeling good, and wanted to be home alone with her cats, and take a bath, and go to bed early.  Well... I can honestly say that I did something I haven't done since I was 19.  I got into my truck, and drove to her house. When I drove past, his car was there. (F-me)  I drove home, but tried to call, and even sent a txt... but obviously, there was no response. 

The next morning she said she was coming over to hang out, and I just played it cool, and didn't let on that I knew anything. That day... our txt's were normal, and the banter was playful. She arrived a little late, and she got into the shower.  when she was done, we ate (She brought pizza) and handed out candy for Halloween.  After it was all done, she wanted to go back to the bedroom... but I said we need to talk. I started talking about us, and I brought up this guy's name, saying I see it way too much on her phone. She got defensive saying... "How can you accuse me of cheating"... and "If you can't trust me, then there is nothing else for us".   I said... "So he isn't your BF, and I'm just the Booty call?"  she said "Absolutely not"  I then looked her in the eyes and said... "Then someone needs to tell him that, because that's want he is saying publicly."  She got very quiet at first, but then swore that was wrong, and he shouldn't have said that.   I replied with... "Then why don't you contact him right now, and tell him that he's wrong?"  She wouldn't.   I then asked why she didn't call or txt me back last night... she said she was tired, and didn't want to bother me.  I then said... "Is that the story you want to stick with?"   I then confronted her that I know his car was at her house after 9pm on a Sunday and that's late for her since work starts at 5am.  She knew she was caught.  At that point I told her that this was unforgivable, and I can't return from someone who cheats, and lies... and I told her she needed to get her things together and go. 

The conclusion was... 1) He has been around from before the first break-up, and that's why she was getting cold, and caused the break-up. but my (now xGF) has actual feelings for me and that's why it was tearful, and she wanted back together. and 2) This guy probably doesn't even know who I am. So I sent him a FB message, and a picture of her cuddled up on my Halloween night... and a link to my page where my GF and I were are a local amusement park in the evening on the same day that his afternoon thread where he said she was his GF.

Like I said... there was WAY more to that.  I know I was the one who broke it off,  but it hurts, and I'm sitting here alone, and just needed to reach out to people who may care. 

Thanks 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Blind-Sided

[FMW]

I'm sorry for your pain.  You said you left a lot out, so it's hard to tell - but if the main issue that caused a problem to begin with was your time with your children, then things just weren't going to work out.  She was jealous of your time with them and then strung along some other guy to make herself feel better. 

Did she have to share most of your time together with your children?  Being younger, she may not be in a place in her life where that worked for her.  It's understandable she might want your time together to be just the two of you much of the time, it's not an unexpected issue of incompatibility, especially with an age difference.  But she should have been clear with her feelings and ended your relationship before starting to see someone else. 

After your multiple breakups, did you both agree you were back to what you were before and exclusive?  Maybe she felt your relationship had changed.  But again, she should have been honest.  

I'm sorry you're hurting.  

  

[Blind-Sided]

7 hours ago, FMW said:

I'm sorry for your pain.  You said you left a lot out, so it's hard to tell - but if the main issue that caused a problem to begin with was your time with your children, then things just weren't going to work out.  She was jealous of your time with them and then strung along some other guy to make herself feel better. 

Did she have to share most of your time together with your children?  Being younger, she may not be in a place in her life where that worked for her.  It's understandable she might want your time together to be just the two of you much of the time, it's not an unexpected issue of incompatibility, especially with an age difference.  But she should have been clear with her feelings and ended your relationship before starting to see someone else. 

After your multiple breakups, did you both agree you were back to what you were before and exclusive?  Maybe she felt your relationship had changed.  But again, she should have been honest.  

I'm sorry you're hurting.  

  

Thanks for your replay.  I know there were no questions in my original post... I just needed someone to vent to. 

To start with... in no means am I down playing her feelings... but the reality is... everything she was saying to me is honestly just excuses. As I reflect on all of this... she was looking for reasons to cause problems. 

On the point of my kids... Both of my girls are older (16 and 11) and they are both good kids, and both self sufficient. Not to mention, if they aren't at a friends house to play... they are just in their rooms playing games (on line) with friends. So,  if the exGF and I wanted to do something... I am able to just leave them at home. (old enough that I don't need a sitter) Also, my custody agreement is a week on/week off with my exW, so I have an entire week free if the exGF and I wanted to go somewhere far. (trips/vacation/or just be nekid all day)  I will say, she is not a "Kid" kind of girl.  she had her tubs tied when we first got together. (when she was 26)  But in all of our time together, I've never once asked her to be "Mom" in any way. Not even to get my kid a glass of water.  And the final reason I know it's just "Lip Service" and an excuse to try to cause an issue.... the guy she is potentially seeing now HAS A KID !!!!!!!

While the kids were my main point, ultimately making me do the the original break-up... there was some other things voiced from her, but all of them are "What if" kind of things.  One was "Who will I grow old with?"  I told her anything in life can happen.  neither one of us thought we would have been divorced originally. (She was also married already) But just because I'm older, people die at all ages, and we have a common friend who just had a battle with breast cancer at 35. (Thankfully she beat it)  And on this point... the guy she cheated on me with is only 4 years younger.(So he's 17 years older than her anyway)   Another point was about being active... "What happens in 20 years when I'm is 50, and you are 70?"  I told her... I may still be fine, and active, but she may not.  at 28... she already has a bad knee... and she is putting on a little weight. While she is not "Over weight", she is not "Slender" at all. And I know this is taboo for some... but I told her as she gets older, her metabolism is already slowing down, and there is a good chance she will look like her mother, and she may not be "Active" by the time she is 35.  (While I like her mom, and I thing she is a nice lady, she is very round, and is not active)  Basically, I could refute any of her other points with... "Life is not certain"

Now onto the sharing time thing.  Yes, I have my kids every other week.... but my exGF was literally working +4 jobs.  2 were all the time.  She worked her normal day job every day. (Monday-Friday 5/6am to 2/3pm)  Then she bartends at a local gun club 1 to 3 nights a week.  Then she holds onto a job that is random, and is on demand.  it's super It is a EASY money, and I don't blame her for holding onto it. But she may have to do a couple hours, a couple times in a week to help the owner to some orders out. But then, she may not have to help for a few weeks.  And finally, she likes animals, and she will watch dogs/cats for a short list of people who travel a lot. So this is also on demand, and she may be asked to watch a dog/cat a few days out.

OK..... so let me paint that picture... we may think that we will be able to spend most of a week together.... on a week that I don't have my kids... but then everything happens.  So, she work her "Day job"... but then instantly has to go over to the assembly job after, and do 2 hours a couple days. So the plan may change to be at my house, but I have to go to her house because she has to let a dog out right after she gets home, and then before bed.  So yes, we get to see each other, but really can't do anything other than "Dinner, sex, sleep".   Then as Thursday rolls in... we don't even get to see each other because she may need to bartend on top of everything.  While she always said she wouldn't when I didn't have my kids... she still winds up do it. So now she is tired because of all the work she has done, when Saturday rolls in... she wants to sleep in. But then still needs to do laundry/shopping... and then if she has to bar tend that night... has to be in for around 2 pm. 

As you can see... even if I don't have kids... there is a chance that we only get to honestly see each other a couple nights.   This also goes back to a point she tried to make in the break up of (reflecting on my kids)... "What if I want us to go travel on a whim?"  I told her my time is WAY more open that hers, and my kids wouldn't keep us from doing anything. Her problem is... she can't say no to anyone. 

But like I said... the guy she cheated with also has a kid and is older, so it Invalidates the points she tried to use.

Now... reflecting on limited time together.... she met this guy at the club she bar tends at. So going back to my original post... maybe we don't really get to see each other for a week... but then a couple nights she gets to go hang out with this guy for sever house while she is working. (it's a small club, and isn't very busy normally)  so it's like going on dates several nights a week. 

But one thing I told her was... we are humans, and have a brain... and know right from wrong. She tried to tell me she didn't mean for it to happen... and I point blank told her ... "Yes you did, because you could have stopped yourself."  She also told me that she was sorry... and I told her... "I know you think you are sorry, but you truly can't be sorry for something you wanted t happen."

TO your point of "After your multiple breakups, did you both agree you were back to what you were before and exclusive?"  To be blunt... no... the physical words were not said.  BUT... she knows that I have a hard rule on cheating (Something we talked about several times in the relationship because of past issues) but it was actually only 1 break up for a week. The rest were ups and downs... but all of them were caused by her.  And I'm guessing it was 1) Stories she needed to create to spend time with the other guy 2) guilt of knowing what she was doing, and 3) Trying to cause me to break up with her again so she could feel good about herself.   You need to understand that I have known this girl for a very long time.  I worked with her mom when she was just a kid... and my one female friend continued to work at that job until just a few months ago. I literally know her story from the time she was 6 years old until now.  I know of her HS BF's... and the one after that.  I know her exH, and why they got divorced.  The real s*** part of this is... she has a track record of cheating.  But I figured she was older, and lived some life... and maybe things would be different. 

I just feel lost this morning. Yes... I had to do it... but it hurts.  At the thing I'm mad at is.... I'm sitting here hurt, and the victim when I didn't do anything wrong... but she has someone to go be with.  I'm sure she feels sad... but..... well.... you guys know. 

Thanks for listening

[FMW]

I don't see where you did anything wrong, for whatever reason she just changed her mind along the way. She didn't have what it took to be the kind of woman you thought she was.  

Right now it hurts and there's not a lot anyone else can do or say to help you.  It doesn't help in this moment, and I'm sure you already know this - the hurt will dull over time.  The more time that goes by the more you will see how she wasn't the woman to truly share your life.  You'll work your way through to not only acceptance but to not feeling lost or even actively hurt.

But right now you suddenly have a big hole in your life.  If posting and venting here helps, also consider writing it down somewhere just for yourself.  Writing privately allows you to say whatever you are feeling without editing in consideration of how others might take it.  Write about it as long as you need to in order to get out your anger and hurt.  Once the "heat" is out of it a bit you can start feeling better.  

[glows]

Where is her father? You mentioned working with her mother when she was a child. There’s an odd parent-child dynamic you have with her not just due to her age. She says things like a child does, not realizing the impact or realizing she makes no sense - seems to lack a broader picture. She’s naive in the sense that she wouldn’t think you’d drive by or see someone else’s vehicle or find out if she wasn’t involved elsewhere. 

The way you spoke to her while she was at the door was like you were trying to calm a young child and her outburst or you talking her down was like a parent guiding someone off the ledge.

You may not see this because you do genuinely care about her but I’d revisit this dynamic without the lens of she-is-cheater or she did wrong. She was with someone else and the phone calls or texts paint a picture that she was with another man but you’ll never know the extent of their relationship or when it started or whether she’s even seeing him at all, or whether it means anything to last. 

I’d focus on her and you and ask yourself why you had to do all the above in the first place. I don’t think you both were at the same level of maturity. I say maturity here and am not emphasizing age. 

[Blind-Sided]

9 hours ago, FMW said:

Right now it hurts and there's not a lot anyone else can do or say to help you.  It doesn't help in this moment, and I'm sure you already know this - the hurt will dull over time..........

Thanks again for the response.  I agree with writing... but that's why I'm here. LOL

I know... I'm 50, and had an ugly divorce +3 years ago. And, over the years... I've had GF's and break-ups.  I've honestly not shed a tear over this... whereas I cried for a month when trying to figure out what the heck was happening with my marriage. And yes... there is a hole of... well.... a friend who is not here.  The person who I would have wanted to talk to when something was wrong. 

But just knowing people care... that helps.  As an FYI... I have a bunch of female friends who have all come to my rescue.  THey aren't single ladies, they are just friends. I talked, and told the story to at least 5 female friends... and it helps to just talk it out with someone who has compassion.  

8 hours ago, glows said:

Where is her father? You mentioned working with her mother when she was a child. There’s an odd parent-child dynamic you have with her not just due to her age. She says things like a child does, not realizing the impact or realizing she makes no sense - seems to lack a broader picture. She’s naive in the sense that she wouldn’t think you’d drive by or see someone else’s vehicle or find out if she wasn’t involved elsewhere. 

The way you spoke to her while she was at the door was like you were trying to calm a young child and her outburst or you talking her down was like a parent guiding someone off the ledge.

You may not see this because you do genuinely care about her but I’d revisit this dynamic without the lens of she-is-cheater or she did wrong. She was with someone else and the phone calls or texts paint a picture that she was with another man but you’ll never know the extent of their relationship or when it started or whether she’s even seeing him at all, or whether it means anything to last. 

I’d focus on her and you and ask yourself why you had to do all the above in the first place. I don’t think you both were at the same level of maturity. I say maturity here and am not emphasizing age. 

I also worked with her dad.  I was an R&D/Research Chemist, her mother worked in QC, and her dad was a Production Mgr. (starting back in 2000)  I know there is a creepy vibe there... but it's not like I hung around her as a kid.   I would see her at the Co picnics, or Xmas parties.  Then a little later... I saw her at several parties outside of work.  So, my one female friend was the Analytical Chemist, and when she was having a baby shower, I would see my exGF when she was a teen, and coming to this party with her mom.  Then... later... there were Bday parties, and her mom would come... and she would be there. as an older teen.  At one of these kid parties... I even asked if she could babysit for me (she was 17 at the time) I never did use her for that though.  Over the years, we would run into each other... and we would talk... or I would hear the stories from her mom. But, my exGF would work at the place we all met when she was 18 through 21 (ish) so my female friend and her were close, and she got all the juicy secrets. (and when she was cheating on one when she was at a party)  Like I said... she is known for this... but hey, we were all stupid as kids.    I didn't talk to her at all from about the age of 22 to 26.   But after my divorce... my female friend took me out to a local brewery... and invited a few people.  she happened to show up, and we talked.  I didn't think anything of it since there was an age gap, and she was generally ok to talk to... and... she was still married. (technically) we stayed in contact since we lived a few miles apart... and eventually, she filed for divorce... and we started hanging out more.  When we decided that we liked each other... I told her she could move in for a while while she got everything finalized, and on her feet. 

I'm not sure why I typed all that... I guess I wanted to just give you background. And just for full disclosure... I'm 50, she is 28. (29 in a couple months)

TO your point of... what her other relationship meant... or how long it would have lasted... with her known track record... I'm guessing 2 or 3 months, and she would have been back with me fully.  It's the general consensus with all of our friends is... she wasn't letting go of me because she truly loved me... and if I was a normal "Push over" kind of guy... I would have held on since I was still getting sex. Heck... she still wanted to have "Break-up sex" when I called her out on cheating.  I wanted NOTHING to do with her after I found out.  (OK... I WANTED to... but I have morals, and I didn't) But like I said... I've had several GF's cheat on me, and it always hurts.  I will NEVER accept that again as OK. 

TO the point of calming her... yes... she was a little upset, and even hysterical at times.  Not throwing punches... but just uncontrolable crying.  She needed to know this was not OK.  And unfortunately... while she is intelligent ... she is immature at times. 

Thanks again for the conversation everyone. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Blind-Sided

[glows]

You both shared some time together and that’s something to cherish. It may sound impossible now because of the hurt she caused you or the thought of her cheating. The background and history helps understanding how you knew her.

How much of this was an opportunity to relive your youth? How much of her saying she didn’t want to share you with your kids has to do with feeling like just a kid herself? You being much older you may have skipped over or not noticed any insecurities she may have had.

Don’t be afraid of what else the future has for you. You probably have a better idea of what works for you now with your experience in relationships. Write more if it helps.

 

[Wiseman2]

On 11/1/2022 at 10:42 PM, Blind-Sided said:

  she said "I'll see you later", and I responded with... "Probably not." She hugged me... and totally destroyed my shirt with tears and snot..

Sorry this happened. It seems like all the breakups took their toll. And this last one was where she decided to move on. 

So it's unclear if you broke up or not. Or if the new man was actually "cheating", because of the turbulent on/off.

Unfortunately this may have had a built-in expiration date since you're in different life stages.

Try to regroup and reflect and don't take it personally. She needed to move on, and so did you.

[Blind-Sided]

4 hours ago, glows said:

How much of this was an opportunity to relive your youth? How much of her saying she didn’t want to share you with your kids has to do with feeling like just a kid herself? You being much older you may have skipped over or not noticed any insecurities she may have had.

Don’t be afraid of what else the future has for you. You probably have a better idea of what works for you now with your experience in relationships. Write more if it helps.

 

Well.... at first... I really didn't think this would last.  She was going through a divorce, and I was done with mine (for a while)  I honestly thought it was just going to be a fling.  Her sex drive is high... and I know that her exH had a low sex drive. OK... I don't know how much I can trust anymore... but she said they would only have sex once every couple weeks... and he really only wanted to fool around in the shower, and in bed... he would just lay there, and not really "Touch her".  She also said the majority of the time, she would have to "Finish herself off" after they were done because he was short time guy, and minimal foreplay.  AND... in my marriage, the sex was very "Vanilla".  Not bad... just... a little plain, and not very often.  The chemistry between my exGF and I was NUTZ !!  It was at a point were I felt 18 again.  The first weekend we were physical... I went 10 times. (Didn't know I could do that still at my age) 3 times... IN A ROW for me the first night... twice the next morning.... 2x that night.... and 3x through out sunday.  THe vision is still very vivid.  maybe that's why I hooked her. (If she was actually sex deprived)  Anyway... I thought it was going to be a few weeks, or a month maybe. But after a few weeks... she said she loved me... and a few weeks after that... she said she was going to move back to her folks house becasue she couldn't be in the house with her exH as the divorce was going through... so I just invited her to stay with me.

On that point... I think that's part of the issue.  After she got her own place... things just started being different. Not bad... but we went from seeing each other every day to seeing each other a couple times a week.  And, there was effort to do that.  With that said... her youth is exactly what I needed after feeling like 20 years of my life was stolen from how the exW left me.  You can find my thread in the divorce section if you want all that info.

I'm not afraid of the future.... I just don't want to be alone as I get older. I've reflected on that for a while... she still has time... but being 50.... I don't know.

As far as the kids comment...  I don't think that is the case.  She was just using it as an excuse. And I say that since her (potential) new guy has a kid too. So.... I'm guessing eventually... that comment will come out again. 

Just an FYI... we broke up Monday night, but Tuesday she brought the rest of my stuff over.  She swore that she hadn't been physical with him yet, and that she "Didn't cheat".  I didn't care at this point... and told her... "You were hiding him from me, and needed to lie to me, on a night you were supposed to be with me... to be with him.  So even if that is true, you were cheating emotionally, and mentally."  

Thanks again for chatting.  It helps. 

 

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this happened. It seems like all the breakups took their toll. And this last one was where she decided to move on. 

So it's unclear if you broke up or not. Or if the new man was actually "cheating", because of the turbulent on/off.

Unfortunately this may have had a built-in expiration date since you're in different life stages.

Try to regroup and reflect and don't take it personally. She needed to move on, and so did you.

I was wondering if I would see any of the old crew.  Thanks for chiming in.

I absolutely agree.  That first break up, and the after "Up's and Downs" didn't help at all. The thing is... they were all caused by her.   Even the inital break up. She was gettign quiet, and strange, and upset over things she shouldn't.  The messed up thing is... We had been talking and trying to figure things out... and noticed my house was getting warm.  (The AC gave up) she she invited me to her house to at least sleep (We weren't broken up yet, but felt it was going that way)  We were physical that night.  I came home the next morning to repair it. She wanted me to come back, and she planned a nice dinner. (home cooked) we ate, and then talked, and she couldn't give me any reason that she wanted to say together. So I took off a little ring she had given me (it was on my pinky) and I gave her the house key back and said... "Take a day or two to figure it out, and let me know".  That night... I sort of got upset because it felt like she was trying to get me to  decide about her or my kids.  So the following morning I sent her a mess saying... "You should probably just come ang get your stuff" (Since she lived here for 1.5 years, she had a lot of stuff here)  She did, and wanted to talk... I simply said... "There's nothing to really talk about if you can't accept my kids being in my life."

The next morning she wrote me a long a flowery txt, that was full of emotion.  It said... I wish your AC was still broken, so you would have stayed here a few nights, and just held me, and told me everything would be OK.... and stuff like that.   Mind you... this is the most emotion, and honestly I heard from her in weeks.   So I told her that... and said... if that's the way you feel, come over tonight, and we can talk about it.   We spent 3 hours going over everything, and at the end I said "I know this is going to sound corny... but I need you to say that you want to work on all if this, and you want to be in my life."   She then sat there for a little while, and didn't say anything.  At that point, I looked at her and said.... "Really? Nothing?"  She responded with.... "I love you, but not the entire package."   At that point, I was upset, and told her to leave. 

Anyway.... all the ups and downs... and break ups were cased by her... and now I know... it's because she was seeing someone else along side me. 

As far as the expiration... I'm not sure on that one. She likes older guys in general.  Her exH was 13 years older, her BF before that was about 13/15 years older, the guy she cheated on her exH with was !7 years older..... and the guy she cheated on me with is 19 years older that her.  She has said... guys her age are all idiots, and suck. LOL. 

Thanks for chiming in. 

[mark clemson]

Sorry to hear about this! Sometimes people who seem perfect simply aren't.

The good news is you seem to have little trouble meeting women, so once you're ready to move on you should have a relatively easy time of it.

[Alvi]

3 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

But after a few weeks... she said she loved me..

Oh, boy. She hardly knew you at that point. What exactly did she love about you, besides the obvious? lol. Sounds like it was more like a rebound thing for her, not a real love.

Anyway, I am sorry that this has happened to you. Cheating is always wrong and you are better off without her. I mostly see the incompatibility in your posts. Sooner or later it all probably would end anyway, even without that new dude in the picture.

 But I am curious, why there was so little commitment to each other after dating for two and a half years? Do you think that she wanted more that you were willing to give her so she went looking for someone else? I  can't help thinking that maybe she was expecting something more out of the relationship. Did she want to move in together, get engaged, get married, something, anything? Being BF and GF is fine and dandy but not indefinitely for years and years. After a while, I believe, that most women (especially younger women) would want or expect more from their partners. Do you think that she was hinting those things to you when she was asking you what is going to happen in 20 years? If she was in her 40th or 50th, another marriage might be the last thing on her mind, but she is only 29. I remember reading somewhere in your previous posts that she wanted to move in with you but you convinced her to buy her own house instead. Perhaps you were right in your way of thinking, but do you think that this was a huge blow for her?

Another question would be is why would you even consider dating someone who tells you that she hates kids from day one. How can you expect your GF and your kids to be a completely different entity from each other and never cross and interact at any point. There are plenty of more nurturing and maternal women out there.

What if she comes back, one day if things don't work out with this new dude? I predict that she will. Are you willing to forgive her and take her back? I hope not.

[Els]

I'm sorry she cheated - that's never okay, and it sucks that she had to take the cowardly way out instead of just making a clean break.

That being said, I am actually perplexed that you expected this to go anywhere long-term. There are very, very few young, childfree women who would be okay with having a relationship that involved just "dinner, sex and bed" and having to share most of their time with a partner's children. And let's be honest, tying your tubes isn't something that can be done easily, and it's not something that a woman who was neutral or open to the idea of having kids, would do. She's 100% childfree... it's just pure incompatibility. It doesn't matter if you asked her to do anything for the kids - if your partner has kids, even if you're not expected to be an active parent, the kids will still be around and will require some sacrifices that a childfree person would be unlikely to want to make. I guarantee you that her next relationship with a single dad will similarly crash and burn, in time.

I'm obviously not suggesting that you should spend less time with your children (in fact, I think you absolutely shouldn't!), but if you are looking for something long-term, it's probably a good idea to date older women, perhaps women who have children of their own.

I really don't think that there is any way that this would have worked out. Perhaps in a way, it's a good thing that the breakup was acrimonious, because anger is a good way to start moving on.

[Els]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:59 PM, Blind-Sided said:

there was some other things voiced from her, but all of them are "What if" kind of things.  One was "Who will I grow old with?"  I told her anything in life can happen.  neither one of us thought we would have been divorced originally. (She was also married already) But just because I'm older, people die at all ages, and we have a common friend who just had a battle with breast cancer at 35. (Thankfully she beat it)  And on this point... the guy she cheated on me with is only 4 years younger.(So he's 17 years older than her anyway)   Another point was about being active... "What happens in 20 years when I'm is 50, and you are 70?"  I told her... I may still be fine, and active, but she may not.  at 28... she already has a bad knee... and she is putting on a little weight. While she is not "Over weight", she is not "Slender" at all. And I know this is taboo for some... but I told her as she gets older, her metabolism is already slowing down, and there is a good chance she will look like her mother, and she may not be "Active" by the time she is 35.  (While I like her mom, and I thing she is a nice lady, she is very round, and is not active)  Basically, I could refute any of her other points with... "Life is not certain"

This is probably not relevant to this girl in particular (since you are correct that she herself is constantly choosing older men, so she really doesn't have the right to complain when she is shooting herself in the foot)... but her words are quite true in general. Statistics exist for a reason - that is why medical insurance costs exponentially more the older you get. People can die at any age, but the probability of dying increases exponentially with age. As you are in the US, if I recall correctly, here are the relevant statistics for the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/241572/death-rate-by-age-and-sex-in-the-us/ In her example, looking at mortality rate per 100,000, at 50 hers is 297, and at 70 yours is 2178. Add 15 years to that, and hers will be 1402 while yours is 14,229, a 10-fold increase. Yes, of course nothing is ever certain, but if you are offered a medical treatment that has a 3% chance of killing you, and one that has a 30% chance of killing you, which one will you choose? Statistics matter.

This is something that every person in a long-term age-gap relationship will eventually have to consider.

[Blind-Sided]

7 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Sorry to hear about this! Sometimes people who seem perfect simply aren't.

The good news is you seem to have little trouble meeting women, so once you're ready to move on you should have a relatively easy time of it.

Thanks. I appreciate hearing from you.   I am generally an outgoing guy... so yes... I can meet people, and I can really talk with any one. But just like after my Divorce... now is "Where" to meet them.  I got a little lucky in the fact that I was introduced to a few girls. 

6 hours ago, Alvi said:

1) Anyway, I am sorry that this has happened to you. Cheating is always wrong and you are better off without her. I mostly see the incompatibility in your posts. Sooner or later it all probably would end anyway, even without that new dude in the picture.

2) But I am curious, why there was so little commitment to each other after dating for two and a half years? Do you think that she wanted more..... 

3)Do you think that she was hinting those things to you when she was asking you what is going to happen in 20 years?

4) I remember reading somewhere in your previous posts that she wanted to move in with you but you convinced her to buy her own house instead. Perhaps you were right in your way of thinking, but do you think that this was a huge blow for her?

5) Another question would be is why would you even consider dating someone who tells you that she hates kids from day one. How can you expect your GF and your kids to be a completely different entity from each other and never cross and interact at any point. There are plenty of more nurturing and maternal women out there.

6) What if she comes back, one day if things don't work out with this new dude? I predict that she will. Are you willing to forgive her and take her back? I hope not.

I broke this one up a little to help answer. (numbered answers) 

1) Thanks.  I understand... but the "Incompatibility" is because that's what I'm projecting. (i'm complaining)  Up until 2 or so months ago... there was ZERO problems.  We both like to get out and ride bikes, and walk for exercise... I taught her to ride a motorcycle, and we go on long rides.... we like to kayak... and we like to have short (2 day) trips. And, we "Fit" very well together. (her words)  Literally.... she's short, (5') and I'm tall ish (6' and a large build)  She loves to just snuggle, and hang out. Not to mention... our sex drive was matched. I'm decent size, have good staying abillity, and love foreplay. I don't mean to get graphic.... but I'm just putting it out there.  Her complaint with her exH was she would finish herself most of the time.  With me... she was getting... well... a lot.  LOL

2) That was sort of planed that way.  we were just recently divorced... and after the first year I told her... "I'm really not ready to be married again... but if it's something you need, we can make that happen."  So there was an open proposal in the works. At the time she also said she wasn't ready again.  But over the next year... she would make comments about... "I'm going to so wife you some day."  

3) No.   From what I have found out.... she has used that same line in the past.  The one guy she cheated on her exH with is the BF of another female friend of mine. And the guy she cheated on her BF before she was married was my lab assistant. In the last few days... I've talked to both of them.

4) She lived with me for 1.5 years.... and yes... I started talking to her to get her own place. SHe had cats, and stuff still at her marital house, and needed to do something with it. My house is full, and I don't want cats. (slightly allergic)  TO be totally honest... I think she was upset with this.  I told her if we get married... we could either rent it, or sell it to have the equity. I really think she liked being here with me. And... our houses are just far enough apart to be a pain. (30 min drive)  Because of that... we would only see each other a few times a week.  Several of my friends said we built it backwards in that respect, and it felt like pulling us apart.  The guy she is cheating with gives her back the convenience.  From what I can find... he lives a couple miles away... and they mat the the club she bartends at. 

5) It's honestly not an issue. I've seen it backfire from the other way.  I had a buddy with a kid who dated this girl with no kids.... but she wanted a kid, and loved kids.  So, after 6 months or so... she was trying to be "Super Mom" and the started getting into fights over parenting stuff.... when it wasn't her kid.   This is actually something I brought up with my exGF... I never had to worry about her stepping in, and trying to undo something of mine. 

6) FUG NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    I could have slept with her on Monday night... but I didn't.  I'm hurting right now... but there is no way I will let her continue to hurt me. 

5 hours ago, Elswyth said:

1) I'm sorry she cheated - that's never okay, and it sucks that she had to take the cowardly way out instead of just making a clean break.

2) That being said, I am actually perplexed that you expected this to go anywhere long-term.

3) I guarantee you that her next relationship with a single dad will similarly crash and burn, in time.

4)  Perhaps in a way, it's a good thing that the breakup was acrimonious, because anger is a good way to start moving on.

1) Thanks, and I agree

2) I wasn't at first... but after 2 years of trouble free... almost auto-pilot levels of relationship... I just didn't see it ending. 

3) The guy she cheated on me with... has a kid, and is 47. I even confronted her on that... every single thing she brought up about me applies to this guy.  BUT... he's convenient. (see #4 above) 

4) While it sucks, and hurts... I agree. I'm not crying over it.  The hurt is from the distrust, and the anger for what sis did. 

[Blind-Sided]

The thing that really hurts me now is....  I was the victim. I didn't do anything wrong.... but I'm the one sitting here alone on a Thursday night, in pain.  My kids aren't even here to have someone to talk to.  My house is quiet, and I'm just alone with my thoughts, and it sucks.   BUT... even if she feels bad.... she has  someone to go home to. 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGhhhhhhhhhh.  Sorry.... I just had to let it out. 

I have a number of a girl who I was introduced to before (friend of my female friend).... and I'm sure she would want to go out for a drink.... and she knows I just broke up with my GF.  But I would hate for it to just be a rebound kind of thing. 

****EDIT*****

The universe dropped me a bone.  My oldest daughter knows what happened and she coming home to be with me. 

[FMW]

Stop feeling like a victim, that's going to keep you stuck in the woe is me mood.  

It was a relationship that for various reasons reached its end.  Yes, it was wrong of her to cheat.  Yes, she handled things badly.  But it takes two to build a relationship and so although you didn't do (or say?) anything you see as wrong during the relationship, it just didn't work out.  Although it might have seemed like a great relationship to you, she may not have seen it exactly the same.  Nothing is guaranteed, and many relationships do have time limits.  

Don't hold on to feeling wronged, that will only prolong your unhappiness.  

 

[Blind-Sided]

35 minutes ago, FMW said:

Stop feeling like a victim, that's going to keep you stuck in the woe is me mood.  

It was a relationship that for various reasons reached its end.  Yes, it was wrong of her to cheat.  Yes, she handled things badly.  But it takes two to build a relationship and so although you didn't do (or say?) anything you see as wrong during the relationship, it just didn't work out.  Although it might have seemed like a great relationship to you, she may not have seen it exactly the same.  Nothing is guaranteed, and many relationships do have time limits.  

Don't hold on to feeling wronged, that will only prolong your unhappiness.  

 

I understand.  it's just hard to keep my head on straight sitting home alone. I just keep replaying the BS that happened. The way  I found out about all this sucks... and finding her in a bold face lie (wanting to be alone, and he was at her house) is absolutely killing me inside.  

[FMW]

My previous post notwithstanding, let yourself feel it all and get it out.  Just put a time limit on it, for your own good.

I'm glad your daughter will be with you.  

[Blind-Sided]

Last night was kind of rough.  I was letting my mind drift too much. later in the evening, I called my nephew's wife because she was friendly with my exGF (they were close to the same age) and she wanted to know what happend.   I gave her a full recap from the first break up to the final blow. She was sad, and pissed for me. Then she tells me... after the first break up... my exGF told her that it was all over me not ever wanting to come to her house, and me thinking it was always a mess.  AND... not making time for her !!!!   There was only 1% truth to that.  Yes, I thought her house was a mess... but I would offer to go to her house.  So to paint the picture.... let's say it was Tuesday.... I would say to my exGF... "Nothing is going on tonight, why don't I come over."   I would get... "It's not clean, and I didn't have time to wash the sheets and pillow cases.  Why don't you come over tomorrow (or) thursday." 

For clarity on cleaning the sheets, I was mildly allergic to her cats, and she wanted to make sure the pillowcases didn't have hair all over them. 

So I guess in her brain... the house thing was a problem.   BUT... the one time she brought it up to me... I refuted it by saying... "I offer to come over all the time, and you tell me NO because the house isn't ready... and there really isn't any food."   Then she said to me.... "I know... it's just easier to come to your place."

OK... I understand it's was a problem... but WHAT THE HECK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

 

[glows]

You weren’t compatible and got together very quickly - she especially during her divorce. I’m not sure why things had to be in relation to her ex or who she’s dated and it’s a lot of TMI swapping stories about how sex was with your exes. It’s a red flag in rebounds when life in relation to how the ex used to do things keeps coming up. You may be referencing it now and it wasn’t as pronounced while dating and the exes talk slowly petered out. 

There’s a lot of truth to what some of your friends have said: to the eventual breakdown and finding it inconvenient dating with your houses 30 min apart. It was generous and came from a good place but asking her to move in for her convenience during her divorce was a big mistake. What she likely needed to do was go through what it takes to stand on her own two feet again instead of simply latching onto another man in another man’s house.

When she was pulling away from you she wasn’t comfortable from the first breakup. She already knew you both were incompatible or not quite a match. She forgot about her cats or didn’t want to think about them when she was going through her divorce? How is it either of you forgot about her cats? Was she planning on giving them up for adoption or passing them to her exH? 

She was showing you the reality of having you over takes work. And she has to do extra cleaning to make sure you don’t break out or start with sneezing attack or breathing issues. All that brain fog also turns a person into a different person and repeated or prolonged exposure is worse. Did you consider that she was trying to make you feel comfortable and welcome instead of pushing you away? You both weren’t compatible in the end and she chose to likely let out all her issues and problems to the nearest available ear - the next guy lined up. Your replacement was exactly you a short while ago while she needed someone convenient during her divorce. 

The heartbreaking part is that all these relationships are borne of a need to help someone get through something else. It’s not ever with the solid foundation that she’s whole and confident with herself.

I would spend more time thinking about why women/partners like this who need this much help seem attractive to you. She wasn’t good on her own when she met you and she’s still not good on her own without you. Do you see a pattern? 

Edited November 4, 2022 by glows

[Blind-Sided]

5 hours ago, glows said:

1) You weren’t compatible and got together very quickly - she especially during her divorce.

2) it’s a lot of TMI swapping stories about how sex was with your exes. 

3) It was generous and came from a good place but asking her to move in for her convenience during her divorce was a big mistake. What she likely needed to do was go through what it takes to stand on her own two feet again instead of simply latching onto another man in another man’s house.

4) When she was pulling away from you she wasn’t comfortable from the first breakup.

5) She forgot about her cats or didn’t want to think about them when she was going through her divorce? How is it either of you forgot about her cats? Was she planning on giving them up for adoption or passing them to her exH? 

6) She was showing you the reality of having you over takes work. And she has to do extra cleaning to make sure you don’t break out or start with sneezing attack or breathing issues. All that brain fog also turns a person into a different person and repeated or prolonged exposure is worse. Did you consider that she was trying to make you feel comfortable and welcome instead of pushing you away? You both weren’t compatible in the end and she chose to likely let out all her issues and problems to the nearest available ear - the next guy lined up. Your replacement was exactly you a short while ago while she needed someone convenient during her divorce. 

7) The heartbreaking part is that all these relationships are borne of a need to help someone get through something else. It’s not ever with the solid foundation that she’s whole and confident with herself.

I would spend more time thinking about why women/partners like this who need this much help seem attractive to you. She wasn’t good on her own when she met you and she’s still not good on her own without you. Do you see a pattern? 

I just broke it up some to help answer. 

1) I don't know if I would say that. Honestly... I think we were compatible since we had so much in common. And I kind of disagree with the "Quick" part of it. As said above, I've known her, and her family for a very long time. Literally 22 years.  Also, from the night at the brewery, to us "Dating" was several months. Most of those meetings were with other people around, and not a date. even after doing stuff together without other people around... that was a month or more. (just FYI-ing) 

2) Yes, and I'm sorry. I was really just trying to show that we had a compatible sex drive together (could be an issue with the age gap) where neither of us was a proper match with our xe's.   I tried to not be graphic, and I almost didn't post it... but I figured this is a board of all anonymous people, and it shouldn't embarrass anyone.  Although... I do see that my exW has checked in on this thread. (Hi) 

3) On some level I think you are right.  She was going to move in with her mother because she didn't want to "Live" with her exH any longer.  But since she was more or less just staying here already... I just said she should stay until she was ready to get her own place. (She needed the equity from the marital house to buy the new one) AND... I think we would probably be together now if that had happened. As I said already... I don't think she wanted to leave, but I told her it would be a good idea. 

4) She was pulling away before the first break-up... that's what triggered the start of those first talks. 

5) She 100% wanted her cats, but knew I didn't want them here.  BUT... her exH also wanted them.  In our talks before the first break up she even said... "I should have just let him keep them so I could stay with you." (But she was being a little vindictive towards her exH)  Since then, she has said that she won't buy any more animals since they tak so much extra work, and really can't leave them. (A point I made when I she said I was tied down with the kids and couldn't travel) 

6) I would just be plugged up in the morning, and have to take an allergy pill, and some sudafed to clear out. So... not a bad reaction. (like rash or asthma) And yes... she was always trying to make me feel welcome and comfortable. it was "My 2nd house" according to her.  I had a key the day she moved in.  But the realty is... she is kind of a slob.  Its partly because she just doesn't have time. (working so many hours) She was recently at my folks house, and she looked dead tired. My mom asked her about it... and she said that she worked 70hrs so far, and it was friday.  she still had to put in a shift at the club on Sat. (8hrs bartending)  Part of her problem is... she has mild depression.  She NEEDS to stay active to keep sane. She has told me that she will lay on the floor of her changing room (She has a 2 bedroom house, the second is just all her cloths)  and cry for a hour becase she is overwhelmed with the mountain of cloths that need washed and put a way... so she just leaves the clean ones in the basket... and then the cats get into them, and cover them in hair... and starts the circle. (and add the mess in the kitchen, and living room) Talking with others... this probably has to do with why she is the way she is.  She craves (has to have/needs) the attention from guys.  And... she is pretty/cute enough to be able to get what she wants. AND... that leads her to want to cheat.   FYI... this came from my PHd psychoanalyst friend. (They are good to have around after a break up LOL)

7) Yep.   As far as why she was attractive to me has nothing to do with her needing help.  It has to do with me being a 50yo divorced single dad, and I found a cute 28yo who wanted to be with me... and would have crazy good sex. Guys are pretty simple in that respect.  LOL.  I even told my brother (Before I found out she was cheating) I wouldn't have put up the the drama for those 2 months if the sex wasn't so good.  But I honestly felt she loved me... (That's why she didn't want to let go) I just wasn't giving her the level of attention she wanted after she moved out. (From every day to a couple days a week) 

Thanks for chiming in.... talking through all this really helps. 

[glows]

You’re still seeing her with rose-goggles. If you reread the things you’ve written about her and the posts above you may see how incompatible you both are from her multiple jobs and lack of time, living like a slob (I can’t imagine living with the feeling your partner thinks this about you, by the way), you not wanting her pets and she wanting to keep them. The list goes on including the neighbourhood she chose to buy her new home in, 30 min away from yours. The only thing it seems you do have in common is your sexual compatibility. If writing helps keep writing but also go back to reread what you’ve noticed in the differences between the two of you. 

Even if she had more time for you, the constant exposure to her cats more regularly might have been a dealbreaker. How did you see any of this relationship progressing with her cats? She wasn’t going to give them up and you didn’t want them. If she had given them up to stay with you and then regretted it, that might have driven you both apart also as these were her constant companions since before you came into the picture.

She’s not only ended a marriage recently but may have had to give up her pets to live with you. If the relationship didn’t work with you anyway, she is out her pets. There’s too much potential for resentment there. A lot of people would see this alone as completely incompatible. I’m just puzzled why you had expected this to last or told her at the door too that leaving was pretty much up to her. It’s not seeing all these incompatibilities and putting it all on her to make the decision to leave.

I don’t think men are that simple - none of my previous partners were. Despite any challenges they were as layered as many women I know, intuitive, intelligent and emotionally in tune. Sometimes, as we all can be, they were also contradictory and only too human in error. Most individuals want to be loved, respected, appreciated, adored and be sexually attractive to and attracted to their partners - not so different from you and your ex. It’s multi-layered and complex because that’s what life together with someone demands. It’s not a part time project. It’s a full time relationship. People can be in denial about what they want or need but I do think we all seek those things on a deeper level. Most people want that layered complexity, not just a good shag all the time. You seem to reflect this also when you say “But I honestly felt she loved me” (#7). I do think you both shared something special albeit brief and that was the nature of your dynamic as you were not as compatible as you may have originally believed. 

You may still be very raw and wanting to believe she’s still yours and that it was a match/compatible even though you don’t respect her anymore because there was someone else in some capacity in her life prior to the break up. It’s bittersweet and painful. Give this a bit more time. Cliche but there’s no rushing healing.

 

[Blind-Sided]

8 hours ago, glows said:

1) You’re still seeing her with rose-goggles. If you reread the things you’ve written about her and the posts above you may see how incompatible you both are from her multiple jobs and lack of time, living like a slob (I can’t imagine living with the feeling your partner thinks this about you, by the way), you not wanting her pets and she wanting to keep them. The list goes on including the neighbourhood she chose to buy her new home in, 30 min away from yours. The only thing it seems you do have in common is your sexual compatibility. If writing helps keep writing but also go back to reread what you’ve noticed in the differences between the two of you. 

2 )Even if she had more time for you, the constant exposure to her cats more regularly might have been a dealbreaker. How did you see any of this relationship progressing with her cats? She wasn’t going to give them up and you didn’t want them. If she had given them up to stay with you and then regretted it, that might have driven you both apart also as these were her constant companions since before you came into the picture.

3)  I’m just puzzled why you had expected this to last or told her at the door too that leaving was pretty much up to her. It’s not seeing all these incompatibilities and putting it all on her to make the decision to leave.

4) I don’t think men are that simple - . 

5) You may still be very raw and wanting to believe she’s still yours and that it was a match/compatible even though you don’t respect her anymore because there was someone else in some capacity in her life prior to the break up. It’s bittersweet and painful. Give this a bit more time. Cliche but there’s no rushing healing.

 

Before I start... I really do appreciate all the input you have given.  The banter really helps me process everything. 

1) Maybe... I don't know If I would have used that label... but just like anything in life that someone is passionate about... it's hard to give it up.  In the over all picture, yes there is many points were compatibility is questionable. But if it's not a major thing, you make allowances for things to make it work. OK, on the job thing... it wasn't as bad when we first got together. and like I said... since she lived here... even if she came home, and I talked to her while she showered... and then tucked her into bed. (SHe would go to bed earlier than me because she needed up just be for 5am to get ready for her day job)  We still spent some time together, and I would still be sleeping next to each other, and wake up together. 

She looked around me when she was looking for a house, but sort of wanted to be closer to her work.  I had made a point to her while she was looking that A) she may change jobs eventually, and B) Would be away from me.  (Something she was thinking about)  BUT, her uncle is someone who flips houses.  He took pity on her, (Since she was recently divorced) and offer her a house he was finishing. It was less than 10 min from where she worked, and he gave it to her for a little over what he had into it. (She paid $95k for a house that appraised for $135k)  She didn't really like the house, but I told her to buy it since she would have $40k in equity in it the day she moved in... and if she really didn't like it... or if we got married, and wanted to move in together... it could be sold, and go towards a common place to live. 

On the job thing.... when we got together... she wasn't doing the bartending thing, although she had in the past. (Sort of a temp thing for extra $$) Then when she started, it was only once in a while. (Random times to help the gun club) Then she was on the schedule a little more... and eventually she said she would only do it when I had my kids.... but, eventually was doing it every week.  When she tried to blame me for not making time... I refuted it by saying "My time is wide open, and can be with you whenever you want... where you keep working more and more, and really don't have time for me."  Just as an FYI... she grew up with minimal money. I wouldn't say poor... but the QC job her mom had, and the production job her dad had were not high paying jobs. (small company, in a small town)  Also, when she was a late teen, her dad was laid off, and was out of work for a while... and she had to drop out of collage to help support her family for a while.  Because of that, she has this desire to try to work as much as possible. I love her work ethic... but she can never say no.  (Hence all the side stuff) I remember about a year ago (Before the bartending thing started to dominate) she would clean houses.  She would com home, and be in tears because some people are gross, and she didn't charge much. (She would bust her butt and make $40)   So a few weeks after that, we were talking, and she said " ***NAME*** asked me to to clean their house."  and I responded with... "And you told her NO... RIGHT ?"  (We also were talking about her inability to say no sometimes)  She said... "I said I would do it."  This was an easier one.  An older lady, and not a gross house... but she came home after, and was in a bad mental place, and was crying, and just wanted to hug me because she was tired from a week of work, and only making $20 on that particular job... but spent 3 hrs there.  (FYI, 9 hrs at her day job, an hour at her assembly job, and then 3 hrs there)  

2) To be honest... I don't know. For a while, she said she could put them at her mom's house... but we didn't talk about it much in the last year, since we weren't actively talking about any actual long term goal.  

3) I told her she had to make a choice because I do love her (I would say did, but I'm just being honest) And she was saying she was very hurt, and I caused her a lot of pain when I broke up with her the first time. (Although she was the one who forced me into that position with the kids comments, and not giving me any way to possibly resolve it)  I wanted to just have an open conversation to see how we could work it out or come to some compromise.  I now know  it was just all lip service, and she was tying to make me lose my temper, and make the fight worse so she could feel better about herself. She is a person who needs to be mad to make it easier.  I remember when she was leaving her husband she said a few times... "I wish he was just a D--K so it would be easier."   He was honestly a nice guy... but he was a man child... and she didn't want to be mom to him. Eventually she got that, because even though everything was worked out... he wasn't getting a new mortgage on the house. (To get her off it, and her the equity) This is a reflection him being a man child... she had to do everything for them. He would tell her the paperwork is started, but after 2 or 3 weeks, he couldn't show her.  They started to fight back and forth about it, and several months passed (Closings should only be 30 days or so) It finally got to the point where she said... "if you don't produce real proof, I'm getting a realtor, and you WILL NOT get the house.  You have till next Wed."  She gave him a final week.  She called him that Wed morning to remind him that she was coming over after work for the proof, and she has already talked to a realtor, and would be there Thursday morning to take pictures otherwise. He finally showed her the paperwork, and she told me that it was "Todays Date", and he obviously did it on his lunch break. During these months, she told me she got her wish, because she was able to be mad at him over it.   I am 100% sure this is what she wanted for me. 

4) Yes and no. sometimes it can be that simple. OR... sometimes that simplicity is enough to use as the point to hold onto a crumbling relationship. my exGF and I had a lot in common, and enjoyed a lot of the same stuff. Anything else seemed like things we could work through.   Now... the flip side of that coin, and to your point... the one thing I cant do is DUMB.  LOL  after my divorce, I was introduced to a girl who was probably more age appropriate (10 years younger than me) she had a very nice figure, and was attractive... but holding a conversation with her was hard. Because of that... there was simply no spark.   We even went out a few times in a group setting. (my female friend, her H, this girl and me)  Now, for full disclosure, on some level, in my brain... it almost felt like I was cheating, even though I have been divorced officially for several months. (and it was almost close to a years since the exW said she was divorcing)  With my exGF, the very first night we were together alone, we talked effortlessly for 3 hours.  (And we had been together in a group setting at least a dozen times before that, and were able to talk without an issue)  We were compatible meatily.  OK, she was a blue collar worker, and technically I was a suit... but I was hands on, and at one time I owned a small machine shop. The funny thing was... when I closed my shop, I sold may equipment to another local machine shop.  Months after we were together... we figured out she worked for the shop who bought my stuff... and she was actually runny my old machines. It really was kind of funny in a cosmic way. Our lives were truly intertwined for 2o years without even knowing it. (me working with her folks, having some common friends, meeting randomly her entire life at parties, her using my old equipment, and her deciding to come out to that first group outing when she was just thinking about divorcing her H, and when she decided to give me her phone number... it was already in my phone with the tag "**NAME's** daughter's from work for babysitting" LOL)  We always said it just seemed to be fate that brought us together.  SO... over the first 2 years... when everything was perfect, and there was no arguing, and no thoughts of needing to compromise on anything.... life was good, and I honestly thought she would be beside be as a life partner. 

5) Yes... I am raw, and that's why I just typed the novel above.  No one should ever have to find out from a facebook post that someone you love is being claimed by another person as their GF... and no one should have someone they love straight up lie to hide the truth.  This marks the 4th time I've been cheated on, and it hurts. She knew about the other past girls who cheated, and she swore she would never do that to me. 

Anyway... sorry to spout like that... but I really do appreciate being able to chat.  It helps me process. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Blind-Sided
spelling

[Blind-Sided]

I was trying to edit my post above for grammar, spelling, and to add one more thing... but it wouldn't let me.  SO..... to add to #4 above......

For disclosure from the "First time we were alone" she wasn't divorced yet but was on the verge of it already, and had threatened her H with it. That first alone time wasn't considered a date by me at all... we both needed to talk and didn't want to sit at home that night.  I was single, but it was literally Valentine's Day eve. She had been married for 5 months at this point, and her H didn't plan anything for them, or even acknowledged that it was their first Valentine's day together as H&W, and he didn't even care that she was going out without him. (another reason she was already done with him) AND... NO... we didn't fool around at all.  I didn't even hug her goodbye that night (it was a few months later, and her paperwork started before I even kissed her because I was sure a young girl didn't really want an old guy)  I remember that first kiss and the build up.   We spent a few days together doing just random things.  We went to the book store... we went to the mall... we even went to Walmart because I needed to do some shopping.  We were comfortable doing "Daily Chores" with each other, and we weren't even "Dating" at this point.  But it was the Saturday night after that walmart trip, and I walked her down to the door... and she said... "Im going to hug you now.".... and gave me a huge squeeze.  I felt so warm inside, and happy, even if that's all it was.  The next day (Sunday) we grabbed some lunch, and just hung out.  (games, a movie, and pizza for dinner) when she was getting ready to leave, I walked her down, and she gave me a nice big hug... and I put my hand on the side of her head, and gave her a kiss.  I honestly was going to pull away... but she didn't.

I guess I just needed to add that to show it wasn't an all the sudden kind of thing.  There was build up, and time.  And, there was a question about why she said she loved me so quick.  It really wasn't quick at all.  as you can see... it was a couple months before the first hug. 

[mark clemson]

Just a minor point here - I personally see no issue with a couple swapping stories or minor details from their prior partners, particularly if it's something both do/agree to.

I think doing it all the time or to excessive detail might be a bit aberrant and potentially a red flag. But, if both feel secure in the current relationship, then IMO small doses of this are actually a form of intimacy and help one get to know their partner a bit more. So nothing wrong with that in my view.