Found out she was cheating.

[Blind-Sided]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Just a minor point here - I personally see no issue with a couple swapping stories or minor details from their prior partners, particularly if it's something both do/agree to.

I think doing it all the time or to excessive detail might be a bit aberrant and potentially a red flag. But, if both feel secure in the current relationship, then IMO small doses of this are actually a form of intimacy and help one get to know their partner a bit more. So nothing wrong with that in my view.

Yep... you are probably right. I personally don't mind hearing stories from my partner, when the relationship feels solid.  Personally, I'm an open book (if you haven't noticed LOL)  I don't just spout info to someone new... I totally understand that will scare away a new-ish partner.  I knew so much about her because I didn't mind her venting.   

As far as me sharing here.... ok... I'm probably putting too much out there.  But, it is anonymous. Just hurting some, and reminiscing probably isn't good anyway. (we always want to remember the good)   

As always... I really appreciate your input. 

[Els]

On 11/5/2022 at 4:39 AM, Blind-Sided said:

5) She 100% wanted her cats, but knew I didn't want them here.  BUT... her exH also wanted them.  In our talks before the first break up she even said... "I should have just let him keep them so I could stay with you." (But she was being a little vindictive towards her exH)  Since then, she has said that she won't buy any more animals since they tak so much extra work, and really can't leave them. (A point I made when I she said I was tied down with the kids and couldn't travel) 

I just... don't understand. You wanted her to give away her pets... and you didn't in any way think that that could pose a problem long term??

Honestly, the more I read your posts, the more I can understand where she is coming from. Again, I don't condone the cheating, but this relationship was doomed from the start. All of her concerns (which are perfectly legitimate, by the way) were just brushed aside and talked over by you. She brought up very reasonable issues - she didn't want kids, she was worried about the age gap, she wanted to travel, she didn't want to give up her cats... and instead of actually taking steps to address her concerns, you just argued with her about them, and not very convincingly either.

Why are you even surprised that she just nodded and "agreed" instead of trying to carry on a fruitless discussion? You thought your relationship was "perfect" because you swept all the issues under a rug instead of trying to work on them, and then obviously her resentment just boiled over. It may have seemed "perfect" to you, but I guarantee you that it wasn't anywhere near perfect to her for a long time.

Btw, having cats is NOTHING like having kids, in terms of extra work and being able to leave the house. You can 100% travel when you have cats. You can get someone to drop by to feed the cats a couple of times a day, you can get a housesitter (for free, even, if you let them stay in your house), you can drop them at a cat boarder, etc. You can leave cats alone at home at any time, and go out on a date at any time without having to get a babysitter. Plenty of people are full-time SAHPs but literally nobody is a full-time carer of cats unless they're fostering entire litters - there is a reason for this.

This relationship is obviously dead in the water, but if you want a LTR in the future, you need to be able to listen to, acknowledge, and compromise on issues that a partner brings up, instead of just talking over them.

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Elswyth

[Blind-Sided]

13 hours ago, Elswyth said:

1) I just... don't understand. You wanted her to give away her pets... and you didn't in any way think that that could pose a problem long term??

2) All of her concerns (which are perfectly legitimate, by the way) were just brushed aside and talked over by you. She brought up very reasonable issues - she didn't want kids, she was worried about the age gap, she wanted to travel, she didn't want to give up her cats... 

3) Btw, having cats is NOTHING like having kids, in terms of extra work and being able to leave the house......

 

Thanks for the input... it is always appreciated, and makes me think regardless what side I fall on.  (I like a good debate) With that said... I don't think you are picking up on some of the subtleties of what I'm trying to get across. 

1) I didn't want her to get rid of her cats.  I never once asked her to do that. I've had a lot of animals in my life, and I understand how they become part of the family.  At one time (in my younger life) I had a cat because I knew it was WAY less "hands on" that a dog. And, I would be very upset when one of my dogs would pass away.  Just as an FYI... I had my cat when I lived in SoCal, and my GF at that time loved it... so I let her keep it when I moved to the east coast.  She knows that I was mildly allergic to her cats (long hair) and it made it hard to spend multiple days at her house in a row. Mind you... I had a key to her house, and I was able to come and go freely... but I would always ask if it was a good night to stay.  Originally... the answer would be "Yes, but I haven't had time to wash the sheets".   But in the last few months... it would turn into "No, tonight isn't good, because I didn't wash the sheets, why don't you come over tomorrow."  (or another night) Since this was a valid thing.... I'm starting to wonder if she was just scheduling guys. 

2) I agree that her arguments.... on the surface... are legitimate, and I didn't brush them aside.  I'm a talker, and I look for solutions to issues. 

a) the point of the kids... She has known about them since she was 17, and in the early days, she was more accepting.  AND... the guy she (may or not) be seeing now has a kid.  to me, it invalidates the argument retroactively.  TO me now... it's just a slap in the face... if you can understand where I'm at with that.

b) Travel.... she is the one that works multiple jobs, and we haven't done anything other than a single overnight in a while because of that. Even then, we sort of planed it, and we just did it when my kids were with the exW.  But even so, I could have let my kids stay at a friends house, or with my mom... or with a neighbor.  Last year for my B-day, she planned a 4 day trip for us, and one of the days overlapped on my custody... but my kids just stayed with their mom for an extra day, and it wasn't an issue.   She dreams of travel... but she doesn't have the time or free cash to actually do it right now.  (She has put a bunch of money in her house. New driveway, French drains, New HVAC, and still wants to do some remodels)  So... to me, this is an invalid issue on a few levels.

c) Age gap... she likes older guys.  Every guy I know about that she has been with was at least 13 years older.  Yes, I was 21 years older, (almost 22) and that, to my knowledge, is the largest gap... but the guy she is (probably) with now is 19 years older. SO... all her age gap arguments are still the same, and invalidated because if that. 

d) as I said... I didn't ask her to give up the cats.  I would NEVER do that.  as far as I know the guy she was cheating with... he has a dog, and her cats don't like dogs.   My exGF tried to have a dog, and it didn't work out, and it wound up at her folks house. 

e) the points on being active 20 years from now, and "Who do I grow old with"... while they are statistically correct... they can all come down to... life isn't guaranteed. (As I talked about earlier)  So here again... while they are valid to her... they really aren't valid, and still have the same issue with the guy she was cheating with. 

3) I TOTALLY understand that. Like I said... I had a cat at one point in my life.  It was a short hair, and I didn't seem to have an issue with it.   And she even has the auto feeder.  So she had no issue staying here for 2 or 3 days in a row.  She would just drop by her house after work (for a while, her shop was a few minutes from her house) and she would scoop the boxes, and come over.  The funny thing is... she got a deal on her house... but she wanted one close to her day job.  That shop closed, and her new day job is at a shop that is literally 8 minutes from my house.   But with morning traffic, and some of the back roads she has to travel... it's almost 40 min from her house.  (although directly, we can get to each other's houses in less than 30)

Anyway... I don't disagree that the relationship may have had it's limits from the start.  There was a lot of small issues that made me almost break it off with her 6 or 8 months ago. (Can't talk politics, have to keep kids/exw talk to a minimum, she would go "Radio Silent" when she would get a new tattoo, and a few other things)     Even with those thoughts in my head... there is no reason to cheat.  She had a couple chances to walk away, but didn't.  It's soul crushing to have this happen when you truly love someone.  

Thanks for chiming in.  Talking helps.   I actually slept pretty good last night.  First in the last 3 or 4 days. 

[Els]

I think pretty much everyone here agrees that the cheating was wrong, and that she made a poor decision with her choice of next partner. And it's good that you are starting to heal.

The thing that I'm trying to highlight here is, you don't seem to understand that you don't get to decide whether the issues that your partner is bringing up are "invalid" or not. You keep saying that they are "invalid", but they are only invalid TO YOU, to your perspective and from your viewpoint... and based on your biased, subjective assessment. They were obviously valid to HER, and in the future the issues that a future partner brings up to you will be valid to them as well. The point I'm trying to make is that if you insist that you are the final arbiter on which concerns are "valid", you have lost the relationship before it even begins.

Like, do you understand how arrogant, condescending (and, IMO, ignorant) a statement like this sounds?

Quote

the points on being active 20 years from now, and "Who do I grow old with"... while they are statistically correct... they can all come down to... life isn't guaranteed. (As I talked about earlier)  So here again... while they are valid to her... they really aren't valid

 

[Blind-Sided]

2 hours ago, Elswyth said:

1) I think pretty much everyone here agrees that the cheating was wrong, and that she made a poor decision with her choice of next partner. And it's good that you are starting to heal.

2) The thing that I'm trying to highlight here is, you don't seem to understand that you don't get to decide whether the issues that your partner is bringing up are "invalid" or not. 

3) Like, do you understand how arrogant, condescending (and, IMO, ignorant) a statement like this sounds?

 

1) Thanks... I'm glad to have people to talk to. 

2) I totally understand, and agree.  But to me... the logic trumps the argument. (If that makes any sense)   I guess part of my problem is... in my core... I'm the guy who solves the problems, and fixes things.  I don't mean in relationships per se...  I mean in whatever I do in life. I was an R&D chemist, an engineer (at my own Machine shop), and now an operational consultant.  I'm literally the guy who gets paid to fix what is wrong.  And you are absolutely right... someone's feelings, are their feelings... even if it doesn't have a foundation in logic.  For example... I haven't slept well, and I couldn't keep from crying yesterday morning.  I'm not an overly emotional guy... and I broke up with her... and she lied and cheated.... but yet, I missed her, and was sad for what could have been. (mourning the relationship)  there was no logical reason for me to be sad.  I didn't mess up, and lose her because of something I did.  I started playing the "What if I did this different" game.  That in of itself isn't logical because it's still a "What if" thing... and to me, the cheating is a ZERO recovery thing.  So... I guess you can say... I wanted her back... BUT... I WILL NOT take her back. 

All the issues she brought up during our talks don't really mater since she decided to stay. (Before I found out the truth) I guess I could take comfort in knowing that if those points really are valid to her... then the guy she cheated on me with will be short lived since they are all still an issue with him. (Kids, age, and so on) 

3) Ummmmm..... yes.  Sort of.  It was never condescending to her.... and I never meant it to be that way.  But as above, when she said something like... "Who will I grow old with"... my response was "We both didn't think our marriages were going to end so we are looking for someone new to be with till the end. We both ride motorcycles, and God forbid something would happen, but we could be married, and you could have a wreck, and I would be alone.  I understand what you are trying to say, but life isn't certain."

Here again... Thank you for your all the responses... it does help. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Blind-Sided

[Acacia98]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:00 PM, Elswyth said:

I think pretty much everyone here agrees that the cheating was wrong, and that she made a poor decision with her choice of next partner. And it's good that you are starting to heal.

The thing that I'm trying to highlight here is, you don't seem to understand that you don't get to decide whether the issues that your partner is bringing up are "invalid" or not. You keep saying that they are "invalid", but they are only invalid TO YOU, to your perspective and from your viewpoint... and based on your biased, subjective assessment. They were obviously valid to HER, and in the future the issues that a future partner brings up to you will be valid to them as well. The point I'm trying to make is that if you insist that you are the final arbiter on which concerns are "valid", you have lost the relationship before it even begins.

Like, do you understand how arrogant, condescending (and, IMO, ignorant) a statement like this sounds?

 

I honestly get the impression that when she brought those points up, she had already decided the relationship would end and was trying to make the case for ending it. I think she sounds like a bit of a people-pleaser. So she didn't make a particularly forceful argument. I think it's likely she stayed in the relationship for the longest, appearing committed when she really had one foot out the door. 

@Blind-Sided, if this ever happens to you again, consider not trying to convince the woman that your relationship can work despite the odds. Ask her if those issues she's raised are deal-breakers for her. If they are, wish her well and say goodbye. It's not your job to convince her the relationship will work if she's expressing doubts about the most fundamental aspects of your identity. You're a father, you're a man of a particular age, etc. You can't undo those things. She either takes you as you are, or she leaves you.

[Blind-Sided]

2 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

 if this ever happens to you again, consider not trying to convince the woman that your relationship can work despite the odds. Ask her if those issues she's raised are deal-breakers for her. If they are, wish her well and say goodbye. 

That's kind of what happened when we broke up the first time.... and even the "Almost" break-up the second time.  I also know that begging isn't pretty. LOL  

So on the first break-up...  I was the one that did it, because she really wasn't giving a compromise to the "Sharing time with the kids" issue. Not to mention, I thought it was kind of s***y to put me in that position, or even ask it.   BUT... she was the one who wanted to come back.

On the second "Almost" break up... she said... "We should break up"... but then couldn't leave.  I didn't try to persuade her, and just sat on the top step quietly as she got her stuff together. (Split entry house, so down just a few steps to the front door landing)  She said "See you later", I said "Probably not".  She said quietly "I love you", and I asked her "What did you say?"... she responded louder "I love you" in a total melt down cry.  She hugged me... soaked a shirt... and she said "What if it doesn't work out?" I told her "I will only fail if you want it to."  I then asked if she was going or staying.  She said... "I would like to stay."   So... she did.  

While I was absolutely trying to find a solution... because I love her, and I didn't want to see it end... I wasn't stopping her because I realized after my divorce... you can't hold on, and it's easier to let her go. 

So.... I really think she loved me.... but she got tied up in cheating, and probably also had fillings for this guy, and was confused in her choice.  BUT.... I made the choice for her because I'm not ok with cheating and lying.  BUT.... that doesn't mean I won't be sad.  And that's ultimately why I'm here... to get it off my chest, and to talk with other people. 

Thanks for listening. 

[Acacia98]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:45 PM, Blind-Sided said:

So.... I really think she loved me.... but she got tied up in cheating, and probably also had fillings for this guy, and was confused in her choice.  BUT.... I made the choice for her because I'm not ok with cheating and lying.  BUT.... that doesn't mean I won't be sad.  And that's ultimately why I'm here... to get it off my chest, and to talk with other people. 

Thanks for listening. 

I think you did the right thing. You will be okay. Eventually.

You're welcome. Keep posting if it helps. We'll be here to support you through the process.

[IrinaM]

On 11/7/2022 at 6:57 AM, Blind-Sided said:

the points on being active 20 years from now, and "Who do I grow old with"... while they are statistically correct... they can all come down to... life isn't guaranteed. (As I talked about earlier)  So here again... while they are valid to her... they really aren't valid, and still have the same issue with the guy she was cheating with. 

I think telling her that "life isn't guaranteed" or that "anything might happen, we could both get hit by a truck tomorrow" is kinda gaslight-y and also just downright naive. Life comes with all sorts of guarantees, actions have consequences, choices have consequences, and we ignore these facts at our own peril. It's not difficult, if we are willing to let go of wishful thinking, to look at the choices we make and predict with 98% certainty the outcome. You basically said "but what about the 2%? What if highly unlikely events transpire?" You're basically telling her to gamble her future because "nothing in life is certain." If someone told you they were going to quit smoking cigarettes, would you tell them that's a foolish choice because they could get hit by a meteor tomorrow?

Had she stayed with you for another ten years, she would be a 38-year-old with a 60-year old. She wouldn't have been happy with that, with 98% certainty, and so she made a decision that has a very high probability of giving her the best possible outcome.

Let go of your beliefs about what she did with someone else. It's pure speculation, you don't know, and you'll never know.

Fwiw, the relationship itself sounds like it started with a lot of drama. imo. And ime what starts with drama ends with drama. She was married and living with her husband when you met her, remember that. Calling it "about to get divorced" is artistic liberty to say the least. In the future, leave married women alone. Especially when they claim they are "about to get divorced," "separated," "only technically married," or want to tell you the details of what a POS their husband is.

[Blind-Sided]

2 hours ago, IrinaM said:

1) I think telling her that "life isn't guaranteed" or that "anything might happen, we could both get hit by a truck tomorrow" is kinda gaslight-y and also just downright naive.

2) a) Life comes with all sorts of guarantees, b) actions have consequences, choices have consequences,

 

3) Had she stayed with you for another ten years, she would be a 38-year-old with a 60-year old. She wouldn't have been happy with that, with 98% certainty, and so she made a decision that has a very high probability of giving her the best possible outcome.

4) Let go of your beliefs about what she did with someone else. It's pure speculation, you don't know, and you'll never know.

 

THanks for chiming in... and like I said... al views help. If nothing else, I get to talk more, and get it out more. 

1) I tend to disagree with this. Having an opposite view on something doesn't automatically make it gaslighting. Gaslighting is more or less lying about the realty to convince someone to believe your side. I was not lying in anyway.  I was being absolutely truthful.  I'm just stating that what she was bringing up isn't certain.  OK... statistically... sure... I'm older, and I would die sooner. But... I have some very long lived people in my family (+90, and in good health)... and she has a history of cancer in hers. So how would that actually play in the statistical outcome?    Besides... her argument there would still hold with the other guy.  He's still 19 years older than her. 

2) a)  Totally, 100% disagree.  There are no guarantees in life.   BUT..... b) I absolutely agree with this. Actions do have consequences. And her cheating and lying made me tell her to leave. 

3) There is no way of knowing that. She likes older guys... she has a track record of it. And, as long as that 60 yo guy was still matching her in activity... I think she would be ok with it. 

4) How is it speculation? She hid this guy from me.  She lied about doing things with him, and she lied about wanting to be home alone, on a night that she had already planed to be with me, and he was at her house late in the evening.  So... even if they weren't having sex... the reality is, she was lying to someone who she was in a relationship with... on her own choice... about another guy. Not to mention, she canceled on me saying "I want to be home alone with my cats" and he was at her house late in the evening. At this point... the trust is gone, and she was CHEATING.  PERIOD.  Cheating isn't just sex. Cheating is letting yourself have emotions with someone else, and acting on them.  OK... this term isn't right since we weren't married... but let's assume she didn't have sex with him......... She allowed herself to be in an emotional afar, and let her main relationship suffer.  We were fine intill there were signs of another guy.  We never argued, and we never had any real disagreements.  It just felt like she was pulling away, and getting strange.  That caused me to have that first talk that led to the short break up. I should have knowing at that point she was hiding something. 

Thanks for listening. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Blind-Sided

[Weezy1973]

Her points about the age gap are valid, but the fact that she doesn’t heed her own warnings and continues to date significantly older men shows that she is emotionally unavailable. She chooses men that she knows, at least on a subconscious level, can’t be life partners. The break up was inevitable. As it will be for the new guy. Put more bluntly, she’s not long term relationship material. And that’s why she was attracted to you. Let her go.

[Blind-Sided]

12 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Her points about the age gap are valid, but the fact that she doesn’t heed her own warnings and continues to date significantly older men shows that she is emotionally unavailable. She chooses men that she knows, at least on a subconscious level, can’t be life partners. The break up was inevitable. As it will be for the new guy. Put more bluntly, she’s not long term relationship material. And that’s why she was attracted to you. Let her go.

OK.... I can understand it. I guess it's looking at it from a different view. To me... since she always picks older guys... it felt like "Lip Service".  But t guess she honestly feels that way... but is just attracted to the older guy... and she puts herself in sort of a conundrum. 

Since I've known her for such a long time.. I can honestly say... I think her only "Age Appropriate" BF was when she was in high school. She told me he was honestly abusive, and she was almost scared to break up with him. (May be why sis didn't like young guys) But he was even a year older. Then her BF after HS was 5 or 6 years older.  At that point... every guy she was with (including the guys I know she used to cheat with on a BF and her exH) we all a minimum of 13 years older. 

Thanks for that 

[Commongoal123]

I didn't even finish your post because it only took a little bit to see the red flag.

She said it "wasn't fair" to have to share you with your children.

That, my friend, is a MASSIVE red flag and a sign of pretty extreme self-centeredness and immaturity.

Ask yourself what kind of person thinks like that?

You dodged a bullet for sure man.