I feel like my husband has been having a long term emotional affair with his brothers wife.

[mark clemson]

It's very unfortunate. It sounds like you had a false reconciliation due, in part to your child coming along.

I don't think it's wise to "reconcile" without also addressing issues in the marriage so that both partners are genuinely happy. There are people who will cheat anyhow apparently, but making sure BOTH partners are actually happy (and in truth that can be a lot easier said than done) is generally going to be the best bet.

[understanding4you]

7 hours ago, stillafool said:

So what is your plan now that your husband has asked for a divorce?  Have you talked to an attorney yet?  Are you planning to stay in the home or move out?

I have a consult with an attorney this week. I’ve held out over fear. I was in denial of this marriage ending. When I found the sexting messages between him and his coworker (this past June) I knew something was so terribly wrong. The past few weeks prior he just didn’t talk to me at all and was just so nasty to our older daughter. We have 2 young girls now, 3 & 8. For the past few years he would show very little love to our 1st daughter. I noticed it once she outgrew the cute little toddler stage and was becoming a kid. She would get a hello and a kiss on the head when he would walk through the door and that was IT. He would get very irritated by her and yelled a lot at her, but was still way more affectionate to our younger daughter, but still not all that much engaging. This furthered the drift as he would stonewall me when I would tell him how I felt. He hasn’t seemed happy when I did a whole lot of reflecting, basically our entire marriage. But I took it as his personality because it’s felt this way from so early on. I believe I just wanted love so bad and he showed me that in the very beginning, but it tapered off so quickly and then with all this funny business going on and him always choosing to dismiss my feelings, I began to feel unworthy, but oddly at the same time I felt clouded and would always 2nd guess myself. I didn’t feel good in this relationship from day 1. It felt too off from the very beginning, but I kept lying to myself and didn’t want to believe how I was feeling so I continued on.

Throughout the entire summer, I was a complete mess. I tried talking to him, convincing him that he was making a mistake, he just kept saying “I don’t know” “I love you, but I’m not happy.” I asked him to elaborate more. I wanted to know where I went wrong, but he just couldn’t articulate it. From when this happened at the end of June up until 2 months ago he Just kept saying, “I don’t know what I want” and at that point I just stopped asking. He would come and go the entire summer, staying half the week here and half the week elsewhere. I  was so distraught that I allowed it until I got to my breaking point in September and said you can no longer just come and go. We were still sleeping together, I was such a mess emotionally and CONFUSED. I had to put boundaries in place where he only gets to come here set days of the week for the kids and then takes them every other weekend where he stays. On the days he comes he stays in a separate room to sleep. We’re going on 2 months of this. Just a couple weeks ago he tried hinting that he wanted to come upstairs in the room with me, but I don’t even entertain it. He’ll insinuate that with a text and I just ignore them. About a week ago he text me that he hates all this and the way it is and know it’s all on him. I again don’t respond anymore. Because when I used to get all in my feelings, express the pain we as a family are enduring and what his thoughts were he wouldn’t even answer me whether it be me professing this in person or via text. I would get silence and just feel so completely  rejected and unworthy of even a response. I feel stuck and also like I have to take matters into my own hands because he doesn’t seem to have a game plan whenever I would ask. Ive always worked but this past April stopped for good because whatever $ I was making, would go all to daycare so it was POINTLESS. I wasted years doing this ever since we had our 2nd. We came to terms with it and agreed I would stay home to take care of our girls until my 3 year old turns 5 and can go to school and at that point I’ll go back to work. Then all this happened just a couple months later and I feel so stuck. I have no clue how to move forward, how to make a move. He pays the rent and bills. Your typical situation, I have nothing. We both have been going to therapy but separately over the past 5 years for major issues within his immediate family as well, but nothing ever came from it and he never even wanted to do therapy together. If you want to see what started that you can look into my profile to see a post I made 5 years ago regarding “allowing my 3 year old around my MIL”. This relationship has been an absolute nightmare. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Will am I]

That’s parentification: assigning parental tasks and responsibilities to children who are too young for these tasks and responsibilities.

Typically the bottleneck isn’t in the task, but in the responsibility that’s being put on the victim’s shoulders. A 10 year old can learn to cook. But they’re way too young to handle the responsibility of feeding their siblings.

 

Circling back to your topic, I think this background softens my judgement of your husband. What he’s doing to you is still terrible, but in part he’s acting in response to damage that he sustained as a child.

Now that doesn’t mean you have to stay with him and endure more and more of this. But it may make it a little bit easier to forgive him after the divorce.

I believe your husband may be incapable of sustaining a healthy relationship.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Will am I

[Will am I]

17 minutes ago, understanding4you said:

For the past few years he would show very little love to our 1st daughter. I noticed it once she outgrew the cute little toddler stage and was becoming a kid. 

She is now getting closer to the age where he received abuse.

Maybe she triggers unpleasant memories. Maybe she triggers a sense of unfairness and resentment.

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, understanding4you said:

That’s the thing, I feel like him and his family don’t see anything odd about it. 

So what?  It's terrible for YOU.  You are responsible for your own wellbeing and that of your child as well. 

I understand that people come here for validation - nobody is going to think that your husband's behavior is acceptable.   Take care of yourself.  

[Will am I]

35 minutes ago, understanding4you said:

This relationship has been an absolute nightmare. 

 

It’s a good sign that you are able to articulate this statement. It shows an ability to step away.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, it sounds like your entire history with this man has always been unhappy and dysfunctional. 

It is clear that it's very lopsided, with you trying so hard to get any kind of love out him that it's left you completely disoriented. The more you write, the more strongly I suspect the affair with his sister-in-law has been physcial for a long time and that there is a very real chance that at least her first-born is his. Maybe he'd also been telling her he was going to leave you but when you turned up pregnant, it shattered that fantasy for her. 

My sense is that there is so much more that you don't know about their true relationship, and you may never know. The whole lot of them are messy. And now he's been playing around with a co-worker as well. 

It's way past time that you get out of this marriage. You deserve some happiness and love and respect, and I don't think you are ever really going to find it with your husband. 

[stillafool]

44 minutes ago, understanding4you said:

Just a couple weeks ago he tried hinting that he wanted to come upstairs in the room with me, but I don’t even entertain it. He’ll insinuate that with a text and I just ignore them. 

He probably wants the divorce but realizes he'll be paying a fortune so it's cheaper to try to keep you and just cheat when he wants to.  This doesn't surprise me.  You are doing the right thing by not giving him sex.  You should get tested and verify that he has before you have sex with him again.  He doesn't deserve sex with you.

[Stret]

If he keeps saying he doesn't know what he wants - be sure he doesn't want you. You seem to be a back up plan. You deserve so much more. Be strong, go through it, it will be tough and you will come out of it stronger. You have to think how to finance your life of course - divorce and get him to pay alimony. 

Don't fall for his BS any more. 

Others were right - his relationship with his brother's wife is strange and something is going on that you're not aware of. How is his brother's behaviour around his wife? Does he kiss her and act in love? And does she looks as if she's in love with him? If there is nothing like that between them - could it be that the first child is indeed your husbands and that his brother just agreed to cover up for him? Could it be some sick triangle going on, in which his brother has no input, he's just used as a cover? It could at least explain the fast way they suddenly became a couple and got married. Is there a way you can order a DNA test? 

Take care of yourself. You've been through hell. Do you have friends and family to lean on? I hope so. If not - lean on yourself and trust yourself. I did that my whole life and it was hard but rewarding at the end. 

[understanding4you]

18 hours ago, Will am I said:

She is now getting closer to the age where he received abuse.

Maybe she triggers unpleasant memories. Maybe she triggers a sense of unfairness and resentment.

Your responses are very insightful. He would talk to her the way I believe he was spoken to and I would become very angry with him. He would just make her cry and seemed to lack any love in his discipline. Just an example from the other day my daughter was upset about something and what allowed you to notice it was her face. She wasn’t whining or talking back or anything. She just had a face, but he was so itttitated by it, he yelled at her to go up into her room for the rest of the day and to stay there. Then he proceeded to tell her she would be punished for the next week as well. I know there’s no handbook on the right way to parent, but I just found his way harsh and if I ever express it, he will literally just look at me, roll his eyes and walk away. This is with EVERYTHING, didn’t matter if it was regarding parenting or just any concerns that require having a talk throughout the years. I would repeatedly get ignored. He wouldn’t say anything back. Wouldn’t engage and I felt like I was expressing my feelings to a brick wall. I’ve vocalized this frustration over the years too and I just get silence. Something seems so off.  We had an incident a couple years ago as well that was both alarming and embarrassing. Him, our daughter and I were playing a board game and when she lost she became upset by having a puss on her face. All I said to her was Isabella, you’re not always going to be the winner and you can’t get upset, that takes the fun out of the game—something to that extent. He got so angry at her in that moment that he flipped the game up at her, in which the corner end of the board got my daughter right in the eye leaving her with a nice big black and blue. The next day I had CPS at my door as the school had reported her eye. I had to have a caseworker come to my house, talk to us all separately to compare stories and inspect our home, etc. I was mortified. I told him his behavior isn’t warranted for something so trivial as her becoming upset about losing and he in turn acted just as immature by flipping the game up. I asked him why he was so angry, but once again I become ignored. 

[glows]

You might be asking yourself what example you’re teaching your daughter by being ignored. He has checked out awhile ago and has anger management issues.

[Will am I]

34 minutes ago, understanding4you said:

The next day I had CPS at my door as the school had reported her eye. I had to have a caseworker come to my house, talk to us all separately to compare stories and inspect our home, etc. I was mortified.

One could argue that this was the result of an accident and not deliberate abuse.

But it is part of a pattern where your husband is getting increasingly angry with your daughter. Unless this incident is completely isolated, it too would constitute a reason to split up and ask the courts for full custody.

 

 

[Weezy1973]

OP, you husband’s family seems quite dysfunctional and I suspect they know it. One thing I’ve found is that the people that judge the most are those that are the most afraid of being judged. I suspect their attitude towards you is mostly due to their fear that you’ll judge them. So they’re flipping it around and making it seem like you’re the problem. Familial gaslighting so to speak. 
 

I honestly have a hard time seeing what you even liked about your husband in the first place. From your description, it never seemed like a healthy relationship for you right from the start. Why did you choose him?

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, understanding4you said:

He got so angry at her in that moment that he flipped the game up at her, in which the corner end of the board got my daughter right in the eye leaving her with a nice big black and blue. The next day I had CPS at my door as the school had reported her eye. I had to have a caseworker come to my house, talk to us all separately to compare stories and inspect our home, etc. I was mortified. I told him his behavior isn’t warranted for something so trivial as her becoming upset about losing and he in turn acted just as immature by flipping the game up. I asked him why he was so angry, but once again I become ignored. 

I'm so sorry for everything you're going through. You need to get out of there. If you feel paralyzed by the self-doubt or your financial situation, remind yourself that your husband is being emotionally abusive toward your daughter. And, arguably, it has crossed over into physical abuse. You may be convinced his injuring her was accidental but I think it's safe to say that when we toss things or hit things or flip things over in anger, the goal is to intimidate the people in the vicinity. He wanted to terrify her. And he did. He also hurt her. And he doesn't seem to have felt remorse for his actions. In fact, he repeated the act of flipping the game in a later conversation with you. If he had hurt you or hurt her again in that same way, no one could have convinced me that it was accidental. Your husband seems to be losing control, and his alarming behavior is likely to escalate.

Your description of your husband's family is one of the most disturbing things I've ever read or heard about a dysfunctional family (and I come from a pretty dysfunctional extended family myself). You seriously need to get out for your daughter's sake. 

[stillafool]

I think you need to get your daughter away from this man before he ruins her mental health.  It is your job to protect her.  You're going to have to stop complaining about him and start making moves to leave.  He's already told you he wants a divorce so stop being in denial and accept it and start planning your exit.  This isn't fair to your child to have to stay around a man who doesn't like her or you for that matter.

[understanding4you]

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

OP, you husband’s family seems quite dysfunctional and I suspect they know it. One thing I’ve found is that the people that judge the most are those that are the most afraid of being judged. I suspect their attitude towards you is mostly due to their fear that you’ll judge them. So they’re flipping it around and making it seem like you’re the problem. Familial gaslighting so to speak. 
 

I honestly have a hard time seeing what you even liked about your husband in the first place. From your description, it never seemed like a healthy relationship for you right from the start. Why did you choose him?

I started dating him when I was 21/22 years old, so I didn’t have much experience in relationships. I was only in 1 serious relationship prior to him and was cheated on many times by that person. I knew my husband from high school and was always drawn to him, but it never became anything. He was in a couple long term relationships in high school and come to think about it now, I feel like from a distance I saw he was able to provide something I wanted. Not many guys at that age you see with one person over a long period of time. We stayed in contact here and there over the years and when we eventually started dating, I had the expectation of him being this committed and loving man. He did go out some, but didn’t seem to be heavy into partying much anymore and although I had my share, I never truly enjoyed the partying life anyway. I was getting passed that stage in life. One things I will say, is I nene felt like I had a strong emotional connection with him. It was very hard to just talk about life with him. Just conversation. He would never have an opinion or thought about anything. That in itself made me feel incompatible with him, but I would tend to look at the things that I did love about him. To be honest, he seemed so playful and loving with other peoples kids, he was even a godfather to a few children prior to us having any. I used to think to myself, this man is going to be a great Dad one day. He seemed like a family person (which I adored) I felt like his values aligned with mine, until I began to notice dysfunction (and his family started mistreating me and that caused a conflict within our relationship because he would ignore it) Other things— he was very domesticated around the home which I found impressive and a turn on. I felt he did more than your average man in the sense, has a passion for cooking and liked to clean. He was very regimented. I always felt he had a good heart, kindness and sweetness to him. He is always willing to help others out. I would began to feel over time though that his kindness and willingness for others was not the same with me though.  In the beginning, he would do sweet gestures, like buy me flowers here and there, sometimes even write me a ‘just because’ card telling me he loved me and I never had treatment like that before so it make me even more convinced that I was LOVED. He would always try to get me pregnant early on in the relationship and tell me he wanted me to have his children. I would take these things as signs that I was with a good one. I was young and was never in a healthy, committed loving relationship before.

 I so badly just wanted a relationship, honestly. And within a few years on us being together a lot of the “loving” behavior tapered off. The affection dwindled and the only time I’d get affection was a kiss hello/goodbye and during sex — other than that, our relationship felt very empty. There was no emotional bind that we shared. I remember thinking making once we have a child it will bring us closer together, but it didn’t. He would still cook for me here and there and I would take that as an expression of love. I’d hold onto anything possible that he would give me to convince myself that we were “okay”.

[Will am I]

It strikes me in your latest post how much the good traits of your husband interleave with the damage.

Parentification victims can be so mature for their age. He learned all those skills home at a young age and you liked to see this “domesticated” young man who was past the partying stage.

And with regards to his ambivalent ways with children: that must also stem from his background. Loving and protective around small children. Resenting the larger ones when they remind him too much of himself when the parentification started. Especially his own kids, they’re most like him so being around them will be the strongest confrontation.

And his love for you: maybe that’s the same pattern. A girl in a new relationship must be like a rescue angel for someone who’s coming out or a messed up home. But then it becomes a marriage, and then a marriage with children, and it starts to slowly resemble the chilhdhood home.

 

[understanding4you]

4 hours ago, Will am I said:

It strikes me in your latest post how much the good traits of your husband interleave with the damage.

Parentification victims can be so mature for their age. He learned all those skills home at a young age and you liked to see this “domesticated” young man who was past the partying stage.

And with regards to his ambivalent ways with children: that must also stem from his background. Loving and protective around small children. Resenting the larger ones when they remind him too much of himself when the parentification started. Especially his own kids, they’re most like him so being around them will be the strongest confrontation.

And his love for you: maybe that’s the same pattern. A girl in a new relationship must be like a rescue angel for someone who’s coming out or a messed up home. But then it becomes a marriage, and then a marriage with children, and it starts to slowly resemble the chilhdhood home.

 

Yes, can you see how that easily clouded my judgement throughout the years and made me 2nd guess myself? I just kept telling myself, he’s a good man. I would tell myself that his intentions were always pure, however, he had issues with boundaries and deciphering when they were being crossed and just knowing right from wrong. I would feel after a while like I came across to him as ‘jealous’ or an annoyance  when I looked at it as an issue of RESPECT. 

[Will am I]

Totally understand.

 

Maybe he is a good (kind, sweet, well intentioned) man.

Maybe he is also a terrible husband and father (unable to move past the things he suffered as a child, bound to repeat some of the patterns).

What if both are true?

 

Breaking up does not mean you are punishing your spouse for being such a bad person or retaliating for the hurt they caused you. It only means you recognize you two have no future together. There is no guilt in that.

[smackie9]

I think it's time to shift your focus on yourself. What happened in your childhood to make you always question you own judgment, and force yourself to accept their behaviour? All this time you have seen a lack of moral boundaries from your husband, his female friends and his family...tell me why or what do you think made you stay in this for 13+ years? Don't say love because that's dismissing the truth. Be honest with yourself. What was the reason you fought so damn hard for this guy? Why is he the one that has always wanted to end it...why not you? Why didn't you have the confidence or the self worth is walk all those years ago?

[stillafool]

9 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

I think it's time to shift your focus on yourself. What happened in your childhood to make you always question you own judgment, and force yourself to accept their behaviour? All this time you have seen a lack of moral boundaries from your husband, his female friends and his family...tell me why or what do you think made you stay in this for 13+ years? Don't say love because that's dismissing the truth. Be honest with yourself. What was the reason you fought so damn hard for this guy? Why is he the one that has always wanted to end it...why not you? Why didn't you have the confidence or the self worth is walk all those years ago?

Yes this is what you need to find out either through therapy or deep self analysts. 

He has told you he wants a divorce yet I don't see you addressing this much in this thread and how you plan to move forward.  At this point it no longer matters about him, the sister in law and the brother.  They will continue on as is.  The question now is what are you going to do to get out of this and get a better life.  You said you have an appointment with an attorney this week.  Which day?

 

[JTSW]

You're children are not safe with him.

Document his behaviour with them and use it to get full custody.