'You Complete Me' and other romantic diatribe

[ms.stressed]

Okay...Jerry McGuire is a really sweet movie, however, I can't get away from the fact that he came to her because, "she completed him". 

I hate romance movies that romanticize codependency...it's no one's job to complete you or make you a better person, you should be able to be whole and complete on your own...not even your own children. You're asking them to be something for you or to you, that you want to be or wish to be, and that's not their job.

I hate romance movies that romanticize rape. Especially romance books and little girls grow up thinking that it's okay, and it's not. It's not love, it's rape. They raped you. 

I like to be alone. I don't want to complete anyone or be anything for anyone. People who think that way are weird. 

 

Or is it me?

 

Is romanticizing co-dependency and rape culture the norm?

 

Please advise...

 

Your's truly,

 

A Romantic Feminist

[mark clemson]

This seems to be 2 different topics. Speaking generally, I don't think it's the norm. However there's certainly some of it out there.

On the more extreme end you have e.g. Beauty and the Beast, Outlander, 50 Shades, real life D/s consensual non-consent "lifestyles" (not overly common, but they do exist, and also involves males as the sub partner in some cases), women who have fetishes for criminals, etc.

It's true that "media" have a tendency to over-play the more extreme tales and storylines - as that's what draws attention and so advertising dollars.  That may have a tendency to "normalize" what ideally should be extreme and rare situations.

However, they couldn't do that if there wasn't an existing "interest"/tendency for them to latch onto.

How pervasive these things are is anyone's guess. I do think that most real women tend to keep their more extreme urges (the ones that have those urges) in the realm of fantasy, just as men tend to do, as the potential consequences of many of these things are simply not worth it. Even women with e.g. rape fantasies don't actually want to be raped; they may want to experience a simulation of it with a trusted partner for arousal/sexual experimentation purposes. But that's ultimately a very different thing.

One might similarly claim that many video games normalize violence. However, the vast majority of video gamers (which is like everyone these days) do just fine at distinguishing fantasy from reality and acting accordingly most of the time. If they didn't we'd live in a very different world.

[ms.stressed]

16 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

This seems to be 2 different topics. Speaking generally, I don't think it's the norm. However there's certainly some of it out there.

On the more extreme end you have e.g. Beauty and the Beast, Outlander, 50 Shades, real life D/s consensual non-consent "lifestyles" (not overly common, but they do exist, and also involves males as the sub partner in some cases), women who have fetishes for criminals, etc.

It's true that "media" have a tendency to over-play the more extreme tales and storylines - as that's what draws attention and so advertising dollars.  That may have a tendency to "normalize" what ideally should be extreme and rare situations.

However, they couldn't do that if there wasn't an existing "interest"/tendency for them to latch onto.

How pervasive these things are is anyone's guess. I do think that most real women tend to keep their more extreme urges (the ones that have those urges) in the realm of fantasy, just as men tend to do, as the potential consequences of many of these things are simply not worth it. Even women with e.g. rape fantasies don't actually want to be raped; they may want to experience a simulation of it with a trusted partner for arousal/sexual experimentation purposes. But that's ultimately a very different thing.

One might similarly claim that many video games normalize violence. However, the vast majority of video gamers (which is like everyone these days) do just fine at distinguishing fantasy from reality and acting accordingly most of the time. If they didn't we'd live in a very different world.

I don't cosign on any of that, because domestic violence still, people are still being raped, because we don't talk about reality vs. fantasy. Especially teenage girls...and I was a teacher. I see it. 

 

People still think it's okay to shoot, instead of running and calling the police to ask for help. People are still abusing drugs. Teens are still having babies...DaniLeigh, a popular singer was shown being abused by her ex, as well as Kim Kardashian's abusive relationship with Kanye West...so many...It's prevalent. Because we don't talk about it...

[mark clemson]

SOME people think those things are ok (or choose to do them even if they don't). Many do not.

"The media" may take some blame for that, but certainly "media" doesn't make anyone stay in an abusive relationship. I'm not sure what does, maybe insecurity at first and then fear later on?

Certainly people and society are far from perfect. They always have been.

Generally I think there are going to be a multitude of causes, depending on the specific situation/case.

[Els]

I think TV tropes are just that... tropes. Tbh, I think that if anyone uses fictional media as a guide for how to live their lives, they're gonna have a bad time. Also, IMO, the "you complete me" trope is the LEAST of the issues with mainstream media.

[basil67]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:11 AM, ms.stressed said:

Is romanticizing co-dependency and rape culture the norm?

With the exception of the 50 Shades stable, I can't think of any TV or fiction in the last 20 years which has this content.  Sure, there probably is some, but short of someone analysing the data, I doubt it's the norm.   Personally, I think it's OK for people to escape into fantasy, as long as they know the difference between real life and fantasy.   I certainly don't support censoring of all our fiction and movies. 

On 11/9/2022 at 4:58 AM, ms.stressed said:

I don't cosign on any of that, because domestic violence still, people are still being raped, because we don't talk about reality vs. fantasy. Especially teenage girls...and I was a teacher. I see it. 

People still think it's okay to shoot, instead of running and calling the police to ask for help. People are still abusing drugs. Teens are still having babies...DaniLeigh, a popular singer was shown being abused by her ex, as well as Kim Kardashian's abusive relationship with Kanye West...so many...It's prevalent. Because we don't talk about it...

 

Ever since #metoo, DV and rape are being talked about more than ever.  Rosie Batty, a DV survivor, was made 'Australian of the Year" in 2015 for her work around DV.   Likewise Grace Tame, an activist and advocate for survivors of sexual assault was the 2021 Australian of the year. 

As someone who came of age in the 1980's, I can tell you that there's waaaaay more education around consent than when I wasa teen.  It woudn't be hard though, because consent was never discussed at all back then!   I certainly talked about it with my teenage girl and it was backed up by the "respectful relationships" program at her public school.  All the way through her dating, there were discussions on consent, appropriate behaviour from both parties and safe sex.

People who shoot first ask questions later is an issue for some individual countries, but it's not a global issue.  Mind altering substances (originally in plant form) have been around for thousands of years and it's not going to go away all of a sudden.  The reason we know about Dani Leigh and Kanye West is because people do talk about DV   Teens are having babies because their hormones are ready..  Of course, we can help prevent teen pregnancy with good support and access to contraception, but it's hardly a new phenomenon and it's not going to go away either. 

As far as media goes, it's important to be able to analyse what we're seeing....most of it is just romantic tosh and wouldn't happen in real life.  

Yes, the world has some awful things going on.  But I believe the far majority of people are good. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by basil67

[basil67]

On 11/9/2022 at 4:58 AM, ms.stressed said:

people are still being raped, because we don't talk about reality vs. fantasy.

Sorry, I missed this part.   Women aren't being raped by force because men confuse fantasy with reality.   They are being raped because men aren't taking No for an answer.  Or because they enjoy the power trip. Or because they are violent men.  Or because they don't care about/understand the nuances of consent.  For what it's worth, I've given lectures to both men and women here on LS who don't understand one of the modern definitions of consent: Enthusiastic Participation.   If they seem disengaged, are just going through the motions, are laying like a starfish, then STOP.   It appears that some women are just as slow to get the message about this as men are.

And for what it's worth, the article below was headlining a respected Australian newspaper this morning.  I'm glad to report that we are very much talking about DV and rape.   https://www.smh.com.au/national/he-blew-up-my-life-domestic-abuser-michael-slater-s-victims-speak-out-20221110-p5bx4z.html

[Els]

18 hours ago, basil67 said:

Sorry, I missed this part.   Women aren't being raped by force because men confuse fantasy with reality.   They are being raped because men aren't taking No for an answer.  Or because they enjoy the power trip. Or because they are violent men.  Or because they don't care about/understand the nuances of consent.  For what it's worth, I've given lectures to both men and women here on LS who don't understand one of the modern definitions of consent: Enthusiastic Participation.   If they seem disengaged, are just going through the motions, are laying like a starfish, then STOP.   It appears that some women are just as slow to get the message about this as men are.

This, 100%. Tbh, I think that the vast majority of violence (both sexual and non-sexual) against women is caused by patriarchal beliefs that view women as objects, literal possessions of men, and not as human beings with equal rights and needs. And these beliefs are sadly propagated just as much by women as they are by men.

 Things are indeed moving in the right direction in Australia, but sadly in much of the world, the patriarchy isn't going anywhere (or is, in fact, getting even stronger). In the country that I grew up in, for instance, marital rape is still not a crime, whereas consensual sex outside of marriage is a crime (as is homosexual sex). This sends a message that consent is irrelevant, and sex is only wrong when the two people aren't married.

[mortensorchid]

This is the same mentality that others have when they say they hate Valentine's Day.  Some guys say that they see those ads for diamonds and jewelry and want to puke all over the TV.  True?  Sure, but why do we feel that way?  Because despite how unique we think we all are, we are slaves to advertisements and capitalism.  If you don't buy / do / say certain things as they are marketed to you, you are to either feel bad about it or not respond as others expect you to respond to it, they see you as weird or out there.  

Well guess what?  I am here to tell you that if you say "I love you" to someone, no company will make one penny on you.  If you do something thoughtful for someone (clean the garage out, cook them dinner, etc.) no one will say he/she is bad because they are thoughtful.  Just because some romantic comedy says something cheesy like "You complete me" and others start saying it as well says that they are all followers and do what the ads are telling them to do.  Fact.  

[Jonttu]

Wonder just how many bad relationships could be avoided, if people knew the dynamics of a bad relationship - something all affairs are made of?

 

The addiction is the praisal. Mom used to teach us daughters; if you want a man, then praise him from earth to heaven and he is yours - forever!

 

Of course we didn't do it, we see all weaknesses but only so that we can avoid them and only concentrate on the genuine positives.

 

Good Lord, sometimes it's fun to have some fun with a boring and narcissistic partner in bed. You only have to say: "You are a Divine Lover" - far from the truth, lol - and you can see him eat the flattery just like that.

 

If someone chooses to believe utter crap presented as flattery, then they can only blame themself when "promises are broken" and they aren't treated like Gods or Goddesses despite the flattery in the beginning.

 

Hence being self-aware is key to everything. When you know yourself, the good and the bad, nobody can sway you with flattery or put you up on a pedestal.

 

I love to observe them trying to find cracks, praising me with false flattery, and see them fail. It takes an evil person to do that to another person, praise and then dump with coldness.

 

If you find yourself in an affair/relationship with an evil person like that, then you can play some tricks on your way out. Gaslighting goes both ways. Hide their keys in the fridge and make them search for them, completely unaware of where the keys are. But on your way out. There is no sense in playing these same games and staying in the affair/relationship. Once you know that they are looking for your weaknesses and that one day they will turn on you, that is when all hope is gone. No normal and decent person takes advantage of someone's weaknesses.

 

But hey, if people want to believe that they 'complete' another person and other false flattery.... then it is on them alone.